DrDweeb

"So you surely applaud the mopping up of the red fortress in Bangkok in 2010 by the army"

Absolutely not, the reds came to reclaim democracy.

As for my understanding of democracy, I understand the government survived a vote of no confidence and that means shut up and <deleted> off home Suthep, but of course that means nothing to that psychopath as he wants an end to democracy.

In 2010, unlike the protestors today, the reds with their black shirts tried to VIOLENTLY overthrow the government. You call Suthep a 'psychopath' and yet neither him nor or any of his fellow protestors have made speeches about burning Bangkok to the ground and then actually tried doing it. Nor have the protestors today possess war weapons nor used them.

The no confidence vote was a waste of time seeing that parliament is filled with Shinawatra cronies. You call it ending democracy but others see it as ending the tyranny of the majority.

"In 2010, unlike the protestors today, the reds with their black shirts tried to VIOLENTLY overthrow the government"

No they didn't, it was a party atmosphere until the army started shooting. And anyway, so what if they did, the government was not elected by the people so <deleted> 'em.

"but others see it as ending the tyranny of the majority"

and replacing it with the tyranny of the minority, only fascists don't believe in democracy.

"it was a party atmosphere until the army started shooting."

No it wasn't, you made that up!

"So you surely applaud the mopping up of the red fortress in Bangkok in 2010 by the army"

Absolutely not, the reds came to reclaim democracy.

As for my understanding of democracy, I understand the government survived a vote of no confidence and that means shut up and <deleted> off home Suthep, but of course that means nothing to that psychopath as he wants an end to democracy.

"Absolutely not, the reds came to reclaim democracy."

Oh dear, what a pathetic statement of mistruth. The rest of your post demonstrates similarly profound ignorance.

Now, go mix yourself some more Kool-Aid and spew some more pearls for our entertainment.

The rather scary thought, that seems not yet to have been addressed on TV, is who is behind Suthep, who is giving him the go ahead for these mendacious, irresponsible and damaging antics ( i hesitate to use the word treasonous, but no doubt others will use it) and cuo bono in the long term ??

The suspension of democracy is a very serious thing and all of you who think the Thaksin family are the real and blameworthy target, should perhaps think again.

They are but the excuse.

I detest Thaksin, but think Yingluck has done a creditable job since the last election and more importantly, has been getting better as she gains experience in the position.

Her handling of the last few days has been pretty good and very level headed, whilst Suthep ( and now the Democrat party ) are steering full on for something that could become close to civil war.

Some on here should consider the consequences of out right, full on, Thai on Thai violence.

Before Suthep that was unlikely but he now seems to be making it a certainty.

( And i am not talking about a few demos........)

There are now 15.5 million disenfranchised voters for one side, 11 million for the other, plus another 6 million for the other parties, and not all of them will be pleased to see their constitutional, legal and democratic rights to representation removed in an unlawful manner.

Governments that lose credibility resign because they recognise that they have lost the support of the people. YS's government resigned.

I can name LOTS of governments that have resigned as a result of far less turmoil, but for the same basic reason.

YS's government has not been removed in an unlawful manner - a military coup might constitute an unlawful manner, or kidnapping YS and putting a gun to her head would similarly be unlawful.

Public uprising against governments is a democratic right in most civilised countries, and governments do well to recognise mass dissent and call elections.

AFAIK, democracy has not been suspended. Reference please.

Thaksin is not an excuse, he is the direct cause, and only a Shin-Rouge lackey thinks any different

She's behaved in a far more mature manner than Suthep and his clan.

But how did her clan behave during the 2010 riots? Much worse, IMHO. I'd take Suthep's approach any day over what happened back then.

The reds in 2010 were fighting for democracy and were responding to having the army set upon them.

Suthep and his thugs are fighting to overthrow a democratically elected government which has shown amazing restraint, no other government in the world would stand for such behaviour.

Shame on you!

exactly - well said - Abhisits government were NOT elected and have not been so for the last NINE elections so let's make it a TENTH

There are multiple ways for power to change hands in Westminster government. Abhisit cam to power in a perfectly legitimate manner.

You are misguided and in fact ignorant of how parliament works if you think Abhisit's government was in any way illegitimate. That is Shin-Rouge propoganda aimed at the ignorant masses like yourself. Try educating yourself.

As for the previous post, another astroturfing troll. It is getting tiring.

yea enjoy kicking her

Thailand's first female premier broke the mold and I think she deserves credit

you guys might enjoy laughing at her now but PTP will win their 10th election because the majority of Thais support them - that's democracy folks! sorry you don't like it

Think it's not enjoying 'Kicking her" it is the Family and the running down of Thailand through the trough.

You have no Idea who will win the next election, only through your rose glasses. If the coalition partners do not join them next time (and maybe not if the Shins are out) and no noses in the trough. and with naturally a less than the 48% because of corruption exposure, and family out--you think about it.

My thoughts only, along with the majority of posters, I wonder why the posters are not in favour of the clan. what have posters to lose ???

So you then think that most posters are misguided ??? and the minority are clear thinking.???

the Dems have lost the last 9 elections you really believe they will win this one? on other threads the majority is opposite of this one but that is irrelevant

posters who oppose democracy here, but not in their own country, are hypocrites

you think the majority of Thais support Suthept? you are seriously wrong

It is irrelevant if the majority of Thais support Suthep.

What is relevant is if they don't support PTP any longer.

I am not particularly fond of Suthep, but I detest the Shin-Rouge as the tawdry little thieves that they are. I suspect a growing number of Thais are recognising this same aspect and will cast the lot in with "anyone but Thaksin".

Were are all of the RED coats today??

Waiting for their daily briefing sheet to arrive , although we do have a normal spattering of the normal newbie low post count folks in ardent support of the reds. Spot a new name and it always is a new red supporter. Funny that!

Red astroturfing here is sort of funny as the posters are generally so inept that they are mildly humorous.

"Although the premier did not inform the coalition partners herself, she was quoted as telling her allies that she "had done the best that she could", the source said."

In the 2.5 years she has been the Prime Minister the best she could do was to lead Thailand to the point of no government today!!

to be honest with you and as a totally unbiased onlooker she seems to have handled the whole thing with some class. I think (and it's only my opinion of course) is that this Suthep chap is a first class sociopath. he can't win an election so he tries another way to rig it in his favour by doing his best to rid Thailand of democracy and lead by mob rule, anarchy is the word. He wants to tear down a democratically elected government (which shows what the people think of him, right? They'd rather have a convicted criminal's sister at the helm than Suthep or anybody else) and install an unelected "people's council". Who decides who will be on this council? Suthep? So he wants to be a dictator and some people (like you for example) think this is better than a democratic option? You might be right but back to your statement, it seems to me Suthep is responsible for bringing down the government not the PM.

He is basically trying to eradicate the flaws in Thailand's current democratic system so as to have a free & fair election (not become a dictator), expose the high level corruption (don't tell me all past governments are guilty of this, I know that but this lot seem to have taken it to catastrophic levels).

If you are talking about sociopaths try looking up megalomania & see who fits that hat.

How do you eradicate flaws in a democracy by overthrowing the elected government in favor of a dictatorship?

The government hasn't been overthrown.

The government has dissolved itself in the face of massive, possibly insurmountable financial difficulties and the clear loss of support evidenced by mass public unrest.

YL's government was always a puppet government, and its mismanagement and apparent corruption is manifest. Can an alternative possibly be worse?

I posted on the "lack of payment" issue in another thread several weeks ago and it hardly raised a return comment. My gf's family are living on the small subsidy that I give them and no money in sight yet for their rice.

I see angry farmers with pitchforks, lanterns and shovels marching on YTs house (think Young Frankenstein) some time soon.

Well, perhaps not, but the ire of the people has been provoked, and the Shin-Rouge (great name, thanks whoever coined it) might be in for a very bumpy time, quite soon.

...quotes cut ...

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

Why does it matter where the policies came from? Most people voted for the policies, not for Thaksin.

Well, I made that point in response to an earlier poster who claimed that YS gov't was illegitimate because it was run by her brother who wasn't voted for. My point is that people knew full well WHO they were really voting for. I know lots of Thais from a broad spectrum of society, both pro-Rcd and pro-Yellow, rich and poor, and I've never met a single one that didn't think YS was a proxy for TS in 2011. Moreover, everyone realises that her recent denials are not either meant nor should be taken as true, only expedient (because if she were to say anything else that would legally constitute a reason for banning her party). Both the red and yellow supporters I know accept that, and neither think there's anything particularly worrisome about it. What they disagree on is not 'who really runs the country' but who should be running the country: Thaksin or the Democrats.

As both sides are busted flushes in terms of ever achieving a peaceful consensus, it's time they both started looking at changing themselves. The sooner TS's acolytes realise it'll never be 'business as usual' till they sacrifice him, the sooner they'll have a chance of slurping from the gravy train in peace. Equally, the sooner the Dems chuck Abhisit for a new leader AND start managing in a responsible, transparent way, the sooner they'll be able to win an election.

One thing is absolutely for sure: if both sides remain in the same status quo as they have done since 2004 (2006 was only the tipping point, it started before then), then there is only going to be more of the same whoever is in power.

Time for all sides to change. Get rid of the toxic leaders, and realise that only if you genuinely start offering to run the country half-properly are you ever going to be able to enjoy the privileges of the ruling classes in peace.

Oh dear, you are actually calling for responsible government?

That will never do ... tsk tsk.

Now go to bed without your pudding!

... quote cut ...

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

Another debate/logic failure from a TV poster.

Crikey there are some limited intellects here.

a) It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet

Napolean said a lot of things, and were I near my library I would provide you with some of his dumber quotes. In any case, relevance?

Tunnel vision and insulting others are some of your better qualities, huh?

I am merely making a statement of absolute logical truth. to wit. "It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet"

The inability to string logical thoughts together to form coherent argument shows limited intellect, live with it.

My stating of this contains no malice, it is just an abstract observation.

So, having accused me of Kalnienk vision (I think you probably meant something else, perhaps one-eyed?), demonstrate it.

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

I think most women would find your post insulting!

Why?

i) You cannot but agree with the first sentence

ii) The example of JG in Australia (and HTS in Denmark) are two perfect examples of women who had the ability to gain power, but no ability to actually run a government or maintain the respect of the populace.

There are no insults in that post. Your bigotry slip is showing and it isn't pretty!

If you meant to slam the previous poster, then learn to quote!

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

Your lack of respect for women is disgusting.

Just shows what kind of attitude towards women these Suthep and Abhisit supporters are. No wonder their party is full of men with no women in real positions of power.

I am feeling a little bit pissed off this evening, so I will point out that your knee-jerk reaction says far more about you than the previous poster, who showed absolutely no disrepspect in his post (unless you count Julia Gillard as the target, but since she is an as yet unconvicted felon, I wouldn't defend her too much were I you)

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

I must be on a different planet.

I am almost 100% certain that the PTP (the parliamentary majority at the moment) tried to change the constitution and it got knocked on the head by the Constitutional Court.

So, it is now the "minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution"???

You, are deluded.

The question posed is who wrote the 2006 Constitution? Not sure which planet you were when that happened .And is what manner did the 2006 Constitution change the previous Constitution in 1997. At any rate, yes, the CC court ruled against the PTP. The PTP tried to amend one part of the Constitution, not a complete rewrite. The amendment called for the Senate to be a fully elected body as it was in 1997. Fine, there were no elections for the Senate were there? Now, Suthep wants a People's Government starting with a People's Council. From what source does he draw his power other than his own desires? How can Suthep say he represents a majority of the Thai people? BUT -- so many people in this forum say that 'fair' elections are not possible. Too much corruption they say. Is Suthep and his daily diktats that answer or another coup? Frankly, I would prefer Prayuth to Suthep any day!

I wrote "change" which is a synonymn of "amend". I did not suggest that PTP attempted to rewrite the constitution. Your post is deliberate misdirection.

As for senate elections, well, their proposal was really just a way of stacking the deck. The amendment PTP wanted would have altered the structure of government, not something that should be allowed by simple legislative decision IMHO. I suggest you investigate how upper houses are in other elected (or not) in some other Westminster parliamentary systems.

I personally think Suthep has made a very bad tactical political decision and I doubt many want hi as a PM, but I am sure some do - not me particularly. His "People's council" thing will die a natural death.

I doubt whether Suthep wants a coup, that is a fantasy.

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

Another debate/logic failure from a TV poster.

Crikey there are some limited intellects here.

a) It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet

Napolean said a lot of things, and were I near my library I would provide you with some of his dumber quotes. In any case, relevance?

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

I must be on a different planet.

I am almost 100% certain that the PTP (the parliamentary majority at the moment) tried to change the constitution and it got knocked on the head by the Constitutional Court.

So, it is now the "minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution"???

You, are deluded.

The truth is that it has come to the point where it doesn't matter if you do have a duly democratically elected Government for there will always be one side that opposes the appointment therefore demonstrating for their own greed and the round-about continues to revolve.

You cannot and will not have democracy in a country where the people are ignorant to its true meaning nor where certain individuals are prevented from getting their snouts in the trough.

If corruption could be removed (most unlikely) then maybe, just maybe it could work - until then those stupid enough to follow either color will continue to be blindly lead by those who greedy and corrupt.

This is not "one side", this is a very broad based protest. The protestors are everyone and anyone, poor, rich, students, middle class. They are the country.

All the PTP shills here making out it is an us (PTP) versus them (PAD) are just painting a strawman.

PTP have failed dismally to show anything other than incompetence and greed, and even the poor who voted them in have started to become aware of it.

Really? A little skeptic since the previous 'd-days' pretty much flopped; it doesn't seem like that many people will show for what is most likly going to be rioting to get into government house and ther buildings. But even if 100,000 does show up like he hopes, it's unlikly they will get into government house; and even if they did and they occupy it, they will have ot camp out in it for months like they did prior to the airport seizure. A alrge turnout is almost irrelivant because there have been large turnouts before and the redshirts always bring out even larger crowds, hopefully it will really end tomarrow and the democrats go back to the drawing board on how to participate in parliment legitimatly, Some people on this thread say that Yingluck is going to create another financial ccrises and her support is waning, that's fine then she will be voted out of office in 2 years when her term ends; for her term to end prematurly due to these nuts at democracy monument will simply perpetuate more chaos. Abhist never caved into the rioters demands in 2010 so why should she.

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Hmm, PTP's ability to bring in the crowds is in direct proportion to the cash on hand thatthey have available.

Now that TS's bagman is the PM, and she can no longer move the cash, who will be the new bagman?

I think the PTP apologists in TV has failed to notice that this is a very broad based popular uprising against YS (TS) and PTP as a government.

The "poor" are still waiting to be paid for their rice, btw. YS's great "gift" to the poor.

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.

And on and on and on ....

Until greater things happen and Thailand is in the hands of the Thaksin dictatorship.

And where is the proof of that? I keep reading these accusations but the reality is that my 5 year old makes things up too. Doesn't mean that it's true.

If you don't have the proof - maybe you can tell me the current weather situation in dream land?

To which set of blatantly obvious facts do you address your post?

You post is meaningless as is the undirected question.

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

Have to agree with that sentiment.

Very sad too IMHO that so many foreigners on here have to bitch and fight amongst each other each time one of these events happens.

So many new names crop up on here each time in what seems like attempts to inflame the situation here.Is there not enough of that going on in Bangkok already without these know alls doing so here too?

Hopefully the country will see some peace for the Kings birthday and that sense might be allowed to rise from that and sensible talks begin between all parties.

Yes, there appears to be a lot of astroturfing going on here, particularly but not limited to the "red" supporters.

This protest is about Thailand versus the Reds.

My gf's family are still waiting for money for their rice, as are everyone else in their village.

How long can the government last, having cut off the money supply to the poor?

Time to move the mechanics of government to Chiang Mai?

No thanks. It's high season, don't you know.... There's no room at the inn.

You may well be right. I'll be there in 3 weeks time. Don't want it too crowded with appalling-driving Bangkokians.

"PM" (I use the term very loosely) Yingluck and her cronies are not under fire. Abhisit and his forces were...!!

The major difference being that Abhisit was not the democratically elected leader of the country but a johnny come lately after his friends in the judiciary banned PPP (Peua Thai's name at the time)

Abhisit came to powere after a realignment of allegiences in parliament. A common way for parliamentary power to change hands where no absolute majority exists and coalitions must be formed.

Do try and keep up and become informed before sprouting your BS

(edit spelling error)

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

+1.

Most people don't realise the majority of Reds just want what each of us have taken for granted most of our lives - a fair and equal crack of the whip, equality and justice for all. The Yellows want Thailand how it used to be, and still is in a lot of circles; a caste type system, the rich stay rich and/or get richer, the poor know their place, stay in their place, low or no education, so they can continue as fodder for the factories, construction sites, and maids and servants for the elite. There is no way the Dems/Yellows would have ever put in the infrastructure there is now in the villages and towns in the North and NE. That is why this is turning into a class struggle - working class = Reds, elite = Yellows. Seems most people on this forum support snobbery and elitism, not seeing past the government is corrupt <deleted>. They are ALL corrupt, Dems no better than the rest, proven down the decades.

Who cares what the Yellows want? I do not see the yellows protesting in the press coverage. I see Thais protesting at their puppet government and that government's paid lackeys the reds doing what they get paid to do.

Spare us your marxist class claptrap please and the standard PTP fairytale about "elite yellows". It in no way excuses the PTP, TS or the whole shower of w*kers for what is going on, and the fairytale is for the most part a bogus fabrication in any case.

There are precious few elite yellows in the crowds, or any significant number of yellows as far as I can see.

History is full of apologists, invariably they are harshly and righfully pilloried by history. Take a ticket in the queue.

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

"The circumstances were unclear but the violence came after an anti-government mob attacked Red Shirts arriving to join the rally in Ramkhamhaeng district."

So, according to that paragon of impartiality, the abc (us version), the redshirts were the innocent victims.

Right ... "we return to our normal progamming in progress"