DrDweeb

It appears that a lot of Posters here (Farang) haven't got the slightest clue about this subject.

Let me assure you that what this silly girl is doing, from a 'safe distance' from Thailand, is wreaking havoc on her family's lives. Not only that, but the lives of her family members are in real danger.

Now; one can agree or disagree with the laws of Thailand; that's anyone's prerogative; however, a little respect for the Thai culture and it's inherent reverence for the Royal Family IS a very solid part of that culture.

People should not castigate the family-members, who are living in Thailand, - because THEY did not cause this drama: their silly daughter, living in the UK did.

Do not be too surprised to open the paper one morning soon, to learn that this silly daughter has met with a terrible and fatal incident . . . . . Thai's in the UK are also fierce supporters & admirers of our King - and may just take the law into their own hands, to the detriment of this girl's health.

'Thais in the UK' will no doubt appreciate they live in a FREE country where FREE speech is encouraged and they will appreciate that the British Royal Family are not protected but such a law and are still LOVED and SECURE

'if' they do as you suggest they will experience the full force of the British Law which will not be bought

Good Luck to this young lady for using her RIGHTS as a human being - that of free speech - we may not agree with her but we should defend her RIGHT to say what she thinks but that's a democracy that many Thais have not had the privilege of experiencing

If the monachy in any country is so good,it will stand up for itself.If not good over a period of time the people will bring it down.These people know the privilidges they have and wont be letting that go in a hurry.As far as the British royals are concerned i think latest polls show majority want them out,but not in a hurry,waiting for Lizzy to drop.Meanwhile the grandson and family tour Aust.at the taxpayers expense,what a life.Do these people ever dip into their own pocket?

RUBBISH, where were these latest opinion polls carried out, and when were they carried out, pleaser provide proof.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Scotland?

If found guilty for disrespect, I hope she go to jail to the limit of the punishment. 5 years for every disrespect. That will be good for her. Thailand do not have such disrespectful people. We all love the king more than our parents. Don't believe me, just ask anything Thai you know.

How will that be good for her?

Accept the fact that times are changing - ask my kids, who are Thai citizens.

Yep, same here. My daughter has no interest in the past. Family comes first.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Children, by definition, ignore the non-experienced past and discount the future very heavily.

This is why they have parents, and developing a child's awareness of the past and how their present might affect the future is one of parenting's primary objectives.

I visitited this woman's page. She is distatsteful, and that would be so no matter form where she hailed!

She's a British citizen residing in London.

She can say what she wishes.

Not according to Thai law. In fact under Thai law, insulting any Royal globally can be punished.

Since when is there Thai law in London? How irrelevant.

If I defame any member or "global" royalty, anyone can file a complaint against me in Thailand. If I come to Thailand, I would expect then have to answer the complaint in Thailand.

It's crazy, but its true. Of course there is no Thai law in UK,but if and when she comes back to Thailand, she will be in trouble. This is the bizarre parallel universe of the Thai legal system.

As I have pointed out, it is neither bizarre or parallel. It is the same for every country and its citizens!

Mommy and Daddy Dearest.........Not.

Obviously, other than the ugly family situation, Thailand ought to join the 20th (or 19th or 18th) century and eradicate all laws that prohibit free speech and which criminalize libel or slander. Any institution or person that needs a specific law to avoid disrespectful commentary doesn't deserve any of the protection the law is allegedly designed to provide.

Monarchs do not have access to libel and defamation law to address wrongs. Lese majeste laws are the logical response to this, and that is why they exist.

You do not need to be a lawyer or even that well educated to know that this is the case.

As for the abuse of this particular law (and many others) for political or other ends, that is a different subject.

i dont see how thai law can be applied to something that happened in the UK? thailand has no jurisdiction in the UK.

All countries have juridstiction over their citizens.

As an example, many countries have laws which explicitly state extra-territorality, and can and do prosecute their citizens for these crimes when committed abroad. Australia's pedophile laws spring to mind, but there are countless others. Global income taxation on non-resident citizens would be another one.

Ignorance of this fact and of how law works is pretty common, especially here on TV where the most patently ignorant positions are expounded.

The whole concept of "Lese majeste" is medieval and should be outlawed itself.

We could have a debate about that, except that you seem quite unfit for that.

Lese majeste laws exist worldwide, and there is a reason for them. The reason is that unlike me and thee, a head of state (including a monarch) and his/her family do not have access to the normal libel/slander/defamation laws, and that an extraordinary law should protect them. NO country with lese majeste laws among the many countries accepts that the law is medieval or has any important movement to abolish it.

Many laws are abused all over the world, and there can be no doubt that some people abuse lese majeste laws in Thailand. So is the criminal defamation law abused. Two journalists in Phuket attest to that right this week.

But the argument against legal abuse is not to delete the law; it is to amend it where necessary and enforce it properly, fairly and equally. BY LAW the Thai monarch does not have recourse to the standard protection against defamation, so there is a law - as in dozens of other countries - to account for that. In the United States, the world's leader in free speech, there are special laws protecting both the status and work of the head of state. Suggesting they just be thrown out is ridiculous.

It will be a great day when both the Thai head of state and his subjects have similar protection under well-written and properly, equally enforced laws. You don't sound rational when you write that the law should be totally abandoned.

.

Take care!

Intelligent, informed, rational discourse will not win you many fans here on Thai visa

If found guilty for disrespect, I hope she go to jail to the limit of the punishment. 5 years for every disrespect. That will be good for her. Thailand do not have such disrespectful people. We all love the king more than our parents. Don't believe me, just ask anything Thai you know.

then why are these laws necessary ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9

The whole concept of "Lese majeste" is medieval and should be outlawed itself.

Talk about a double-bind.

He added, "I want people to understand that just because a daughter is doing something wrong, it doesn't mean the parents are also guilty, because we don't condone such actions."

What a cowardly father - more interested in clearing his own name and saving face than loving his own daughter.

Pathetic little Thai man.

Actually, your comment is far more pathetic.

Once children reach adulthood, they make choices and those choices have consequences. Some of those choices can and often do result in tied to their parents being severed. It happens every day. She is on her own and the parents have perfectly legitimate reasons for distancing themselves form her - they are after all actually in Thailand and apparently at the receiving end of public wrath over her actions.

Malthus, do like your namsake should have done, and spare us all.

Impeachment and ban in a democracy is supposed to be HARD, it has to be a serious criminal act, not something that amounts to a judgement call-where the nacc accuses the elected government of 'incompetence'.

Indeed, hard it must be, as the Republicans tried to impeach Pres. Clinton for getting a blow job!

So would I be right then is presuming that the NACC were able to complete an audit of all the warehouses, within the last 10 days, and have indeed found a discrepancy of close to 300 Million tonnes, but had been unable to do this over the past 2 years?

The reason I'm asking is did they not already state that they didn't have the resources or the finances to check over 2-300 warehouses, where the ice was alleged to have gone missing?

And yet, now that the Military are now in power, they were able to indeed are able to present a clear case of missing rice, in the quantities that was allegedly "missing" in the space of 10 days?

They're in the wrong line of work if that's the case, they should be coppers, if this is indeed the case and there's 300M Tonnes missing, then it's quite right that those responsible for it's theft, are punished accordingly.

Extra zero everywhere. Surely the OP says 2.8 million tons?.

Oops my bad!! sorry about that

I know this may sound very wrong, apart from the revenue lost/stolen it's 3 million tonnes less to have to try and shift onto the market, when the market is saturated and the price is very low, the supply is greater than the demand at the moment, and someone is going to have to make a brutal decision as to how they're going to get rid/sell the current stock pile, they're going to have to accept massive loses, and perhaps write off a portion of it.

Is the subsidy scheme now dead, or is there farmers still committed to selling their rice to the Junta? Isn't it madness to keep accepting stock, when they can't shift what they currently have? Would it not be a better idea to subsidise the farmers to STOP production for 12-18 months, to allow the Junta to sell off/destroy their current stock? The Millers are maybe now wringing their hands if the scheme is dead, as it means more business for them, for these guys, this is the silver lining in their cloud, and they know they can basically hold the farmers to ransom and pay them what they want, as in take it or leave it ?

I hope that those responsible for the thefts are rightly punished,

Fat Haggis: A lotof the rice in stock has not been looked after properly. Also the longer you keep it, the lower the price. I would suggest that the scheme should be abandoned and in its place the junta should commit to a massive irrigation scheme for Isaan: they can divert the excess water that sometimes floods Bangkok etc into an ecological solution for Isaan farmers who often face food poverty because of the lack of water. Also please understand that the rice scheme was not designed to enrich farmers. Thaksin thought that by withdrawing the rice from the world market the world price would increase beyond the 40% increase that the farmers were allegedly receiving. I say allegedly because many farm produce (not just rice) is sold via series of middlemen with cash being siphoned off along the way. Which means farmers get a lot less than the advertised price for their products. Scams are not just confined to rice!

Isaan = Plateau

Bangkok = River delta

Methinks it will be an uphill battle to divert water to Isaan

Some anonymous informed geezer provided you with facts.

LOL. There are no "facts" showing that "Saudi Arabia is funding, educating (read: radicalising) and promoting the violence in the south", which was the claim made.

Have you ever set foot in Pattani, Yala or Narathiwat?

Yes I have set foot in south Thaialand.

I am not responsible for your ignorance and your apparent inability to manipulate Google. Were you to bother to learn and then spend an hour of your life doing some research, you would then be able to construct a few relevant queries. You would then be able to read a large body of investigative journalism that points explicitly to named institutions in the south directly funded by the Saudis as well as quite explicit first hand reports of Thai citizens being trained in Saudi religious schools. You could even go buy a few books on the subject.

This is not secret information.

Denial is one of the most potent lies

It has been very well documented that Saudi Arabia is funding, educating (read: radicalising) and promoting the violence in the south.

Any links to the articles documenting such involvement?

Learn to use google.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20180/southern-thailand-and-outside-influences/

This is simple anonymous report, however, if you start here and chase some links google will happily provide you, read the various journalists reports, a clear picture emerges.

I wouldn't be jumping up and down for joy too much, as the whole world said the same thing about Iraq's WMD's and to this day, there hasn't been any stockpile of any such weapons discovered or uncovered, and in that one you had all the big superpowers "Intelligence" agencies super confident and reeled off hundreds of accounts of where they were, and they were proven to be false

There's no doubt there's irregularities, maybe the NACC can come over to Iraq and find the WMD once they find all the "missing rice/money"

I also doubt that the Police would be "dragging their heels" here either so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their lack of efficiency as it's been evident this week that General Prayuth has been moving high ranking Policemen from various posts, you think he's going to NOT wish to have this particular case looked at by people he can trust to get the job done?

Talking of Iraq .. What about The Great Australian Wheat Scam... AWB paid Huge kickbacks to Saddam Hussain .. This corruption scandal went all the way to the top of Australian politics ... That case started in 2005 and right until now no-one has been convicted ... That Australia for you... The most corrupt Western country in the whole <deleted> world... and I see Aussies on here complaining about PTP, Australia makes Thailand look like a novice in the corruption game... John Howard and Thaksin ... same Devil..

"John Howard and Thaksin ... same Devil.."

I thought it was the entire ALP and Labour movement that were in the dock under investigation for corruption? In any case, it has already been proven in a lower court that the former PM was responsible for setting up trade union corruption slush funds (read: active participant in theft and corruption). With an ounce of good luck, she will do gaol time.

Howard left Australia with 45 billion in the bank and a massive public surplus. I suggest you take a look at the national accounts now and ask yourself who did that and how they did it.

The arrest of Suthep would probably not prove in aiding a solution to Thai politics , he could become a martyr from behind bars and this could escalate into what the thai's deem as 'civil war'.

This is not Cuba and Suthep is not Castro ! The Reds , are mostly middle aged fat women, they gonna take up arms .

Does anyone , non thai, really believe they could orcastrate a organised arms struggle against , firstly against their own people (section of) and secondly the army ,who are ordered to protect the Monarchy and the State, what sides would they take if there was a total breakdown in law and order, not to mention the police .

Yes they are all buddists apart from the 1% who are Christian, but is it true Buddism ? India , Nepal have a different opinion about that, point here is that it would not be a Religious struggle as was in Northern Ireland, which you will all know was a bloody civil war for three decades over two religions.

I could go on , but really coul'nt be bothered, they are specialists in bullshit, thats about it and as someone said a country full of nutters.

Education, which they don't like is the key of their problems, and a true understanding of Budda and what his teachings really meant !

Ireland was not a religious war, it is an illegal invasion and illegal occupation by the British of Northern Ireland.

Give Ireland Back to the Irish - Wikipedia, is a song written by Paul and Linda McCartney in response to the events of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland on 30 January 1972

What year was that? I seem to have forgotten when Norther Ireland was invaded and occupied.

Good for you - I also came from a very poor family and did the same as your wife. My husband helped me - but i was never going to sit in the rice field and wait for a Shinawatra handout!!! The people in Isan HAVE choices. They are NOT kept down they can come to Bangkok and get cheap University degrees and work for legitimate businesses just like anywhere in the world why should we keep a wanted criminal dictator to give them handouts and call it democracy - no other country does!! Im shocked that western posters would advocate Thailand becoming a Shinawatra nanny state after all he's done. WE ARE BETTER than that!!

There are a great many of us waiting for Thais to prove that, but so far it doesn't look good.

Not could but will....

I doubt it.... When they don't get paid, they don't turn up, and the notorious Khun_T won't part with that much money for that to happen

Now that YL is unemployed, maybe she can get her old job as "bagman" back?

(ok. I could've written "baglady", but that means something else)

These repeated warnings of dire consequences from the red shirts have a whiff of desperation about them. They are in a corner and seem to know this. They have lost the battle of numbers because their core support is not motivated and seems divided. The momentum and the passion is with the other side. If the army took over tomorrow i doubt there would be much more than a few squeals. Time will tell i suppose.

Desperation or determination..................... to hang to their right to vote?

I have not read of any one who does not want the right to vote

But I know many who want to vote under a Fair Voting system

so please tell us are you for or against a fairer system than what PTP have now

The point many of us have made repeatedly (with citations) is that academic research shows that vote buying has not been a key factor in determining recent Thai general election results. The latest study - admittedly by a fairly junior researcher - corroborates that finding.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/05/01/electoral-integrity-in-thailand/

The senior Democrat politician Korn is also on record as saying that vote buying no longer determines election results and that indeed in the last valid election his party spent more on vote buying than did PT.

So what is the problem the reforms are designed to fix? If there is no vote buying problem, then what can be changed which would make PTP less likely to win? Perhaps, for instance, it is about the kinds of (populist) policies a party is allowed to put forward or the qualifications of the voters. What worries me is that reform actually means bending the rules to achieve a change in power.

I notice that you say your family lived in a red village, without indicating that that included yourself. In the past I too lived in what is effectively a red village in central Isaan full time for 15 months, although at present I do so for only a couple of months per year. All I can say is that our views seem very different.

Why pay? There are more effective ways of securing votes - fear for starters. Then there is simple manipulation - tell enough lies to the unsophisticated and disenfranchised and promise them what they have never had and never will is another. The second of the two is a significant factor in "democracy" having a "tough time" in 3rd world (and lower) countries.

Jutaporn might die of lead poisoning, or some such other unfortunate ailment in the forseeable future-

... Budgetary expenditures are lavished on Bkk way out of proportion to its population and share. of GDP. All other regions including the Central plains foot the bill for this disparity. But the inequality is worst of all in the Northeast and is reflected in measures of healthcare, education, housing etc. Inevitably low government spending on their education and healthcare results in low income in a vicious circle that no Central govt will ever bother to address properly.

Interestingly, you will find that this particular complaint can be fairly leveled at just about every western democracy, including the most democratic and stable one's in existence. That of course does not make it a good thing, nor does it exonerate the Thais from repeating the folly of everyone else.

In any case, after quite a bit more than a decade of almost uninterrupted Shin rule, isn't it time to stop drinking his "I am for the poor" kool-aid, and take account of his actions and the consequences of them. The poor are not better off than they were before TS. He and his acolytes constantly bleating that they are the champions of the poor must be examined objectively, and when necessary taken to task.

The fact that the quality of education seems to have declined (my personal view and experience) is sufficient to question whether TS rule has given anything lasting to the poor, other than debt now and for generations to come. I do not see any investment in their long term future, just a volley of self serving behaviour from his supporters and lots of pigs at the trough.

I also read the Economist - they are generally as clueless as the BBC.

Has anyone been watching RT or AJ? I cannot get them.

How has their coverage been?

Speaking as someone who was physically in the airport at the time, I can assure you that there was no violence, and the atmosphere was jovial rather than tense, and for the departing passengers somewhat confusing. There was a severe shortage of reliable information after the airport and airline staff decamped.

I won't go into the tedious details, but suggesting (as you have done) that violence was involved in the occupation of the airport is inaccurate, it is an untruth - I know, because I was there!

You are a dissembler and a liar.

Have been watching this thread from a distance. What bunch of crap you just posted. You are lying. I was there to with my family and friends, like many of us we were all terrified. Outside it was like party or carnival atmosphere as the gutless police did nothing to help. Then some yellow shirt wai's me and tried to apologize. I was a hostage and so pissed if I was armed no telling what I would have done. In the distance later heard explosions as rumors circulated about bombs. So much for the yellow shirts and respect for tourists, tourism and private property.

To these yellow shirt, PAD, and PDRC supporters and sympathizers, understand that elections is about winning and losing. You win some and you lose some, but elections have consequences. You respect the right to vote. If you choose not to vote that is your choice but you can not deny others their right to vote. If you lose, consider your position was not popular with the electorate and if winning is that important to you then change your message. What you don't do is forcibly remove an elected government, takeover property and hold the public hostage. The right to vote and have elections is fundamental to democracy, one person, one vote and is more important than any person, ANY person.

Firstly, I do not sympathise with PAD at all - I got stuck in Bangkok and basically had a whole lot of things planned and paid for that got up by the airport occupation. I have no particular sympathy for them. Making an assumption that I do support them because I think that TS and his lackeys are evil corrupt bastards is logically invalid. That is creating a dichotomy that doesn't exist. Inability to recognise this, is a characteristic of the intellectually bankrupt Red and their equally brain-dead mouthpieces.

As for your claim at being at BKK. Your claim is so sufficiently different from the reality, and I was there (I think I have posted that other places over the past years), that I am happy to call it is false. I didn't notice anyone "terrified", and there were lots of people there as they PADdies came in clapping there little clappers. There was no violence. No one was was taken hostage, though I admit, getting out of the airport and back to Bangkok was a non-trivial problem that lots of people were incapable of adequately solving.

The rest of your post is irrelevent to the one of mine you quoted, a rather misguided, incoherent rant without context. Not atypical of TV posts generally.

The Wall Street Journal editorial page:

I'm afraid that was NOT a Wall Street Journal editorial at all, but rather an Opinion piece, which WSJ buys by the dozen.

In other words, just another article from the Thaksin PR machine.

Fair enough - "from the Wall Street Journal opinion pages". As for your predictable bleating about the WSJ piece being "from the Thaksin PR machine", I will just let it speak for itself.

(Curious: Given that the yellows elicit roughly 0% approval in the international press, is it your standpoint that they are to a (wo)man paid by Thaksin?)

Have you ever worked for Burson-Marstellar?

No, didn't think so. You have probably not even heard of them.

But I have worked for them. But not longer than was absolutely necessary.

I would suggest you &lt;deleted&gt; about things of which you are totally, utterly and wholly ignorant.

What makes B-M and their ilk so insidious, is that the world is full of sheeple like you, people completely ignorant of their own ignorance and who wear it like a badge.

Really, you have absolutely NFC about how easy it is to seed this sort of crap.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

Yes I agree I should have said majority of those who voted and not population. Regardless, who asked the PDRC supporters not to vote? Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP? Isn't that what a democracy is all about? Winning the hearts of the majority so they vote for your party. Is it the PTP supporters fault that the others didn't vote and instead want an un-elected council to be put into place through their influence over the military and Privy council? And anyway the government in power is a coalition government which consists of Pheu Thai Party (265 seats), Chartthaipattana Party (19 seats), Chart Pattana Puea Pandin Party (7 seats), Phalang Chon Party (7 seats), Mahachon Party (1 seat) and New Democrat Party (1 seat). This means that 54% of the voters in 2011 voted for the PTP led coalition government and they control 60% of parliament.

Conflation. Look it up. You would be crucified in formal debate.

Clearly, you are unable to recognise this, and I doubt explaining it to you would help.You could use some remedial math as well.

.

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

Yes, in 2007 they were protesting against the military government

Indeed, the red shirts held violent demonstrations against the government in 2007 and again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2009 and once again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2010.

They are the undisputed champions of violence.

Do not necessarily agree with your wording but it is difficult to defend violence of any kind even if seemingly justified. I do not defend red shirt violence as I do not defend yellow shirt (PAD) violence as in 2008-9 with the seizure of the Government House and the forced closure and siege of airports throughout the country with the disruption of tourism and businesses. Of course, this orchestrated yellow shirt violence brought down another elected government, the PPP.

Speaking as someone who was physically in the airport at the time, I can assure you that there was no violence, and the atmosphere was jovial rather than tense, and for the departing passengers somewhat confusing. There was a severe shortage of reliable information after the airport and airline staff decamped.

I won't go into the tedious details, but suggesting (as you have done) that violence was involved in the occupation of the airport is inaccurate, it is an untruth - I know, because I was there!

You are a dissembler and a liar.