way2muchcoffee

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

it is really not that bad.... waytoomuchcoffee

driving cross country from burmese border to sadow border several times....

as mdaspinall described.... rarely encountered traffic cops or traffic cop problems....

mostly driving around 90-110, occasionally sneaked in a 120 when the hwy #4 is straight and clear....

my significant other was doing 120 and was flagged.... we chose to pay the official fine with proper receipt and all....

as others already stated.... if we abide by the rules, regardless of how ridiculous those rules might seem to us....,

there won't be too many groups of professional who could take advantages or intimidate us....

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

There is no doubt it will fall further this year as well.

I hope you're wrong but fear the opposite.

The Farang Expats and other people who are interested in Thailand are mainly fed with colour painted news...

Non-biased news about Thailand is hard to find and if there is any it's brushed away by those who claim the Western Press is colour painted.

An endless circle.

LaoPo

It seems impossible for it not to fall further given the media restrictions that went along with the SOE. Personally, I think those restrictions were completely justified and most western governments would have done the same thing given the stuff that PTV was spewing. Nevertheless it has been perceived by the int'l press as a media freedom violation and Thailand's rating from RWB will surely fall because of it.

of course, plus Thailand will go further down the list and than you can check which countries would act same and have similar media restrictions. Cuba, Burma, Iran, Turkmenistan and North Korea.

Wow, role models of developed democracy and being at their level completely justify everything.

You can add USA to that list as well. Look up imminent lawlessness and you'll understand. I haven't researched other western countries, but I have no doubt there are similar provisions. Media that calls for violent revolution, arson, and assassinations will be censored the world around.

There is no doubt it will fall further this year as well.

I hope you're wrong but fear the opposite.

The Farang Expats and other people who are interested in Thailand are mainly fed with colour painted news...

Non-biased news about Thailand is hard to find and if there is any it's brushed away by those who claim the Western Press is colour painted.

An endless circle.

LaoPo

It seems impossible for it not to fall further given the media restrictions that went along with the SOE. Personally, I think those restrictions were completely justified and most western governments would have done the same thing given the stuff that PTV was spewing. Nevertheless it has been perceived by the int'l press as a media freedom violation and Thailand's rating from RWB will surely fall because of it.

There is no doubt it will fall further this year as well.

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

In Hong Kong corruption was rampant especially in the police until the Independent Commission Against Corruption ICAC was created in 1977.

The ICAC was created to root out corruption; unlike the old police Anti-Corruption Branch, the ICAC would be answerable to only the Governor of Hong Kong. Their tactics and methods were often crude and aggressive in the extreme, often swooping on a police station to take an entire shift in for questioning. Ultimately though their shock tactics were effective and as a result Hong Kong was transformed from a graft-ridden city into one of the cleanest places in the world, as recognized by international institutions such as the World Bank, the Heritage Foundation and Transparency International.

That was 37 years ago and despite a return to mainland China continues today. Maybe Thailand needs to look at a similar system for here.

Could work, but who knows. Who would police the police who are policing the police?

LOL. That is a funny sentence. Correct in every way but it sounds nonsensical.

Maybe all the farangs will be happy when Thailand is a police state like the UK and America?

Or maybe they'd be happy if the police simply performed their duties properly with honor and without the endless extortion attempts.

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

Ok. Thanks for your explanation. It is certainly plausible.

There are other equally plausible explanations for that video. It was announced multiple times publicly that the government had placed undercover 'spies' amongst the redshirts. If one of those military spies was doing recon and scouting, it would make sense that he would meet a team of soldiers to lead them to a suitable location for an operation. In this case he would need to carry weapons for protection while working with the uniformed soldiers. Later he would discard his weapons and blend back in with the demonstrators to do further recon work.

Part of the the problem is that we see many video clips, but they are without context. The camera can only point to one place at a time and so we are left guessing as to what the real circumstances were. This forces us to speculate. This speculation will lead most people to make conclusions that are in line with their own biases. I am including myself here too. It is an undeniable fact that two rational and highly intelligent people will look at the same evidence and come to very different conclusions.

Seriously are all you folks that stupid. Reds where not payed 500 a day, mostly all interviews holded with red shirt protestors as well as written stories say they where not payed and some even selled their own stuff to go to Bangkok. Thaksin only financed the leaders... and stuff on protest site, like toilets, stages, stuff, food etc.

The Thai gov is pressing the 500 baht scheme trough, all thai newspapers expect a few in the north and northeast are negatif, everything red shirt -> bad bad bad, terrorist, terrorist and terrorist, stupid rural low educated people, That's only they have to say.

It's not hard to debunk your denial of payments enginerevision. Walk down to any motorcycle taxi stand in BKK and ask them. The next time you take a taxi in BKK ask them. The next time you go to a solidly red village in Isaan, just ask them. They will all state that payments were made, not to everyone, and not every day. Many are still awaiting the promised payment. But it is undeniable that many of the demonstrators were paid and/or offered cash inducements to protest.

Since Thailand is G20 member you clearly see how they follow up on the global Agenda.

- wars of (self-created) terror

- tougher 'security' measures

- martial law being used

- killing unarmed people is made day to day practice as part to de-sensitize people

- creating images of violence via agent provocateurs, yes I mean all them fake M-79 attacks + the 2 real ones

- massive pressure on the media to conformationally report and keep the 'good image' of the lying politicians

- double speak: One day it's "We did not use real ammunition" but people die; next day it's "Now we are allowed to use live ammo" ?!?

- Greedy bastards and the elite steer this fake two-party paradigm aka yellow vs. red to keep the masses dumb

It's all smokescreens, while Abhisit is laughing his butt off, thanks to the reds he is still in power, otherwise the government would be dissolved already (236Bt mil. taken from petrochemical company and 30Bt mil. are allowed as party 'contribution')

Guys wake up, Thailand is being marched into the new world order B$ big time, right now. And who will rise again now, since all them yuppies in BKK and their offspring rather tweet where the heck they're having a 150Bt. ice-cream, the days wage of 'normal / rural' people.

I dislike seeing the 'happy country' image to fade away between them angry red's, the government agents / military and the Chinese descendants elite ruling the country from Sathorn and Silom via economics.

May the people unite and see the game of the puppet masters! Bless Thailand!!!

;

So much of your Post is great observation, however Thailand is not even on the Next 11 List, let alone a G20. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Eleven

Now, if Thailand would implement The Joseph Solution; it would be a G30 Nation within a decade.

Also, drop the 'Chinese' thing if you want World acceptance. Sondhi, Thaksin, Leekpai: there are Chinese Thais on all sides of the Issues. Rama 1's grandmother was Chinese.

It's NOT a race issue, it's a fight for the seats of corruption. There are freak of nature *historical reasons why so many Chinese/Thais fluked into upper class, don't blame them by their heritage. There are corrupt Thai/Thais as well.

*While Chinese immigrants were excempt from corvee status, this was NOT a privlege. They were shunted off to menial tasks, laundry, pahtangoh stands. With the effect of some treaties with Western powers, land swaps were made and trade agreements were made to save Thailand from colonialism. Out of that rose free enterprise and the business class. It was just historic dumb luck the 'lowly' Chinese were already conversant in running businesses. It just washed up on the beach for them. They were well adjusted to grow with the new socio economic order imposed by Browning and others.

Why do you post the "Joseph Solution" as the answer to nearly every single one of your hundreds of responses? I'm getting tired of it, seriously.

LOL. We may not agree on much else Mr. Clown, but on this we are sympatico. I've asked several times for a link or explanation from Mr. Egg. Nothing in response. No link, no detail, just endless promotion of a nonexistent platform, or one that exists only in the mind of one poster. Incredible.

Mr. Egg. If you wish to be taken seriously at all you need to find somewhere to host the details of your plan. You then need to provide a link here in the open forum or through PM. You are a self-described genius so I imagine this wouldn't be too difficult. Heck, you'd probably even get a decent spot in google searches for it given the hundreds of times you've shamelessly promoted it here.

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

this is one if the most revealing one of all the plenty of videos of some whatever shirts have been spotted with a weapon

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Need any additional proof?

What exactly to you think this is proof of mazeltov?

Violent crackdown.

Banning opposition media.

Removing/side-lining non aligned civil servants, police ect.

Censorship.

Spurious charges against opposition figures.

Targeted assassination of opposition figure.

Demonising entire sections of the country.

Demonising foreign media.

Use of LM laws.

SOE and continuing curfews.

I course I could be wrong and Thailand is now headed for a bright future.

1) Violent crackdown in doing their duty to protect the civil rights millions of citizens of Bangkok against armed insurgents holding the center of Bangkok for some 60 days. The same insurgent terrorists who killed 11 security personnel and injured hundreds more. The same terrorists who burned down some 38 buildings causing billions of baht in property damage and tens of thousands of lost jobs.

2) Banning opposition media who acted in contravention of the constitution of Thailand. The same media who would be banned in most western nations for inciting violence and imminent lawlessness.

3) Censorship of the same media as mentioned in number two under the very same laws.

4) Spurious charges? Pure speculation as nobody has seen the evidence. Police show the evidence to prosecutors. Prosecutors determine whether to proceed with a trial. Judges determine the validity of the evidence. Throughout the world the evidence is rarely made public except during the trial phase.

5) Targeted assassination against opposition figures? Nobody knows who killed Seh Daeng. How about the assassination attempt on Abhisit last year, or Sondhi, or the successful assassination of Col. Romklao and the maiming of his aides?

6) Demonizing entire segments of the country? It is my understanding the throughout the protests the government carefully delineated between the average protester and the armed militants mingling with them. There are numerous public statements about this. So what was that you were saying?

7) Demonizing foreign media is correct. The foreign media's diligence throughout the crisis has been subpar, as has domestic media. At least the government didn't actively target media personnel, unlike the reds.

8) LM is the law. Any Thai government has no choice but to prosecute LM charges when there is clear evidence. Would you prefer that the government ignores existing laws?

9) SOE was absolutely necessary. I don't even need to comment about that. Regarding the curfews, I personally think they are warranted. I am not privy to all of the information the government has about existing threats from terrorists. I and my family are more than willing to stay in between the hours of midnight and 4:00 am if it provides greater security and safety for all.

Thaksin's lawyer to submit appeal against Thaksin's warrant

Phichit Chuenban, a lawyer of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Wednesday that he will submit an appeal against the Criminal Court's approval of terrorism arrest warrant against Thaksin.

Phichit said he will submit the appeal to the Criminal Court later Wednesday.

hahahaha.... the imprisoned pastry-box bribery lawyer is BACK!

Thailand: Lawyers who formerly represented ousted prime minister Thaksin released from prison.

December 23, 2008

Thai News Services

Three lawyers hired by ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra were released from Bangkok Special Prison on December 22 after serving six months jail for contempt of court over the pastry-box bribery scandal, The Nation reports.

Phichit Chuenban and Thana Tansiri left the prison at 6am and got quickly into cars brought by their families to avoid throngs of reporters waiting to interview them.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summa...86-36179737_ITM

Mr.Amsterdam next?

One would think that doing time for conviction of perjury for bribing judges

would be reasonable cause for disbarment from practicing law...

I wonder what IS reason to disbar here?

Littering?

There is nothing wrong with P.M.Abhisits (Freds) leadership, having said this , this can't be said about a lot more of the leaders of Thailand, there will need to be far reaching reforms, especially with heads of departments (Generals), making it everone's right to be able to become a member of Parliment, not just one's with a degree, the future is there ,for all the people of Thailand, but they must first understand the word , DEMOCRACY, events over the past month have been far from it, a word that comes to mind, education.Thankyou.

You don't need a degree to be an MP. Read the constitution of Thailand.

Oddly that was the case with the '97 self proclaimed 'People's Constitution', but not the present one. However, to be a minister the individual must hold a tertiary degree.

Regards

That is correct. You cannot be in the cabinet without a degree but you can be an MP. This doesn't seem to elitist to me personally. MPs represent their constituents in parliament. The cabinet sets government policy and runs the nation. Somehow I would prefer someone with both experience and education in this role.

There is nothing wrong with P.M.Abhisits (Freds) leadership, having said this , this can't be said about a lot more of the leaders of Thailand, there will need to be far reaching reforms, especially with heads of departments (Generals), making it everone's right to be able to become a member of Parliment, not just one's with a degree, the future is there ,for all the people of Thailand, but they must first understand the word , DEMOCRACY, events over the past month have been far from it, a word that comes to mind, education.Thankyou.

You don't need a degree to be an MP. Read the constitution of Thailand.

[

what we want to say to you

would maybe get us suspended

so play alone and drink plenty of coffee

That's twice you've tried to bait me and I still have no sense of what your objection is.

jucel was asking for a link showing that Thaksin is on an international terrorist watch list.

I think that such a link would not exist yet. I believe it would take more than a few hours from the time Thailand issues an arrest warrant before Thaksin's name would appear on published international terrorist watch lists.

What is so offensive in this idea that you can't speak your mind for fear of suspension from the forum?

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

What are you talking about? The arrest warrant is about 3 hours old. The ink hasn't even finished drying and you are talking about other nations recognizing it. Really? Is this the argument you intend you use?

My friend after reading this post

You Have had way to much coffee

Caffine is having an effect on you

I don't follow. Perhaps you could explain your comments....

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

What are you talking about? The arrest warrant is about 3 hours old. The ink hasn't even finished drying and you are talking about other nations recognizing it. Really? Is this the argument you intend you use?

"What can a poor boy do?

On the streets of London town

There's just no place

For a street fighting man."

LOL. Not such a big shot today are we? Police should look into how this unemployed hospital porter supports himself in Thailand. Some strategically placed yaabaa tablets would make their lives easier. I thought Pattaya police had already made a big song and a dance about how they were going to rid Pattaya of foreign scum.

There would be few residents left. What do they expect in a town full of prostitution, and drugs?

Get rid of the thousands of prostitutes and see how many respectable retired foreigners remain - what on earth would they go there for if not the above.

Don't be ridiculous. There are many things to do in Pattaya for families or couples. Nightlife is plentiful (even without the red lights). The selection of restaurants with outstanding food a reasonable prices cannot be matched anywhere else in Thailand. There are adequate beaches, island trips, scuba diving, snorkeling, etc. etc. etc. There are many reasons to go to Pattaya and it is something my wife and I do a few times a year when we just want to get out of BKK for the weekend.

Nimitz Modrakee, of 124 Communications offers some useful advice, but I think a new election monitored by independent observers (like the Carter Center) would be the most powerful statement to the world that Thailand could make.

A new, fairly elected government would achieve instant legitimacy and provide the springboard needed to begin a process of reform.

and wouldnt the timing be great if Abhisit called an election in 3 months time while support for the reds is low but then I cant see Abhisit doing it as he is to scared of losing and inexperienced as he hasnt yet fought let alone won an election!

Or, as opposed to your inflammatory comments, Abhisit realizes that the country is so polarized at the moment that free and fair elections are impossible and therefore he would like to see some calming and reconciliation first.

Do you honestly believe that free and fair elections are possible at the moment?

Would any Democrat candidate be able to campaign in Udon Thani, Ubon Ratchathani, Sakhon Nakhon, etc?

Unless and until this can be guaranteed then the country has no business holding elections, at least until the latest possible date allowed by law.

How about things are in order and we would like them to stay in order. Does that work?

An extra week long curfew and a Buddhist holiday with no drinking on Friday I bet the bars hate Abhisit I had some respect for him when he eventually sorted out the reds but this Curfew business is bullshit.

My goodness. Does it really hurt so much to finish your drinking by 11:30 pm and head home? The curfew is perfectly reasonable. Would you rather come home at 2 in the morning to find your house in flames, or someone elses house or business? Get a grip.

Anyway, no need to hijack the thread any further with this side topic.

Let's not compare with the West and make Western judgements like "25 baht an hour is terrible...".

I pay 120 Baht a day + tips.

For someone who is uneducated, does not want to go to Pattaya or the local karaoke bar it is better than nothing and certainly better than sitting on your arse in the village.

It is called market rate, as is the meagre 60 Baht I can charge for a delicious khao pad goong.

Isn't the lowest minimum wage something like 150 bt/day? Tips do not count as part of the minimum wage salary. Are you a criminal or are there different laws regarding positions which have tips? In any case 120 bt/day sounds like robbery to me. You should consider bumping up to 200/day at least.

Not your business.

Do some reasearch - and look at previous Thai Visa threads. Minimum (contracted) wages range from 148 - 203 Baht (Bangkok).

Look at earlier topics where rice cutting paid 60 Baht a day.

I pay 50% more than a local competitor.

I will always pay a fair rate based on local market conditions. 5 people now earn a wage and they were not doing that last year.

Maybe I should start to charge them for their meals ?

If I paid 200 Baht a day I would need to increase my prices which customers may well respond to by buying less. I would then close, result 5 more potential candidates for the karaoke bar.

If other employers underpay their employees illegally that does not give you the right to do so. If you are not paying the legal minimum wage then you are part of the problem. Perhaps you wouldn't have to raise prices, but only accept a more modest profit off the labor of others. If you cannot pay the legal minimum wage it would seem that your business is not viable and that your business model isn't a successful one.

Just shows the real problem. She is uneducated. The only way to fix this nation is by affordable health care and affordable education. This is the only way to stop the cycle of poverty.

This country already has both affordable health care and affordable education. So what is the problem then in your opinion?

The healthcare is 'passable' at the 'free' level (much better if you pay for it. Oh!, similar to most Western countries).

Are you saying that the affordable education is effective ?

I would suggest otherwise.

I would suggest that for those who attend all classes, do all homework, study hard, earn good grades on their own merit, and have decent parenting to instill those values then yes, the affordable education is highly effective. Unfortunately that is not the behavior of students in most schools.

As far back as 2004, but the Thai Army requested more of them just recently even after it was proven they didn't work. Obviously, as we've seen from the problems now, money would be better spent elsewhere than on even more useless bomb detectors.

Really? Do you have a link on that?