way2muchcoffee

Whatever scott. It still doesn't make any sense. Please post some proof about your claims if you want to be believed.

Huh? Drug-laced food in school cafeterias? Now that's a stretch...

Ummm... no it's not kloghead. The private school where my kids went to (Thai private school) in the north for 4 years, had independent chemists come in and spot test the food, soft drinks, and snacks. There were traces of ya baa in the food and snacks. The catering staff got pulled into the cop shop and nothing / nobody was ever charged. That was during Thaksin's regime. These days it's not done I've heard.

Can't understand why you think it's funny re: traces of ya baa in school cafeterias....

Perhaps because the idea is ludicrous. Who put it there? Why would a drug dealer put it there? How did it get in there? What food was it in?

To be honest I don't believe you.

I think "appears normal' is the key to his statement. The PM thinks normal is the small civil war in the south of Thailand that has killed thousands over the past few years as business as usual. Threaten the tourist industry and high end shopping areas and he lets loose the police and military to kill scores of civilians. A full on propaganda scheme was released to the world trying to convince us of a terrorist attack going in the Bangkok for about two months. Of the 85 killed and thousands injured most were under his "license to kill"order to rid the shopping malls of the "evil terrorists" and not so bright protesters.

I wonder why he doesn't classify those Muslims who kill men, women, children, soldier, monks and politicians everyday in the south "terrorists". He says they are a small band of local insurgents and he is working on the problem. Some of us may be a little skeptical and a bit horrified. Bombings, beheading, lighting people on fire seems more than a small local problem. I'm sure there would be a different approach if the little band of "insurgents" began targeting Paragon and the Emporium.

I don't know. Which is worse, terrorists or insurgents? It seems insurgents is the correct word to describe events in the south. Terrorists would aptly describe the bombings throughout BKK, the assassination of government or military leaders, and the burning of many buildings throughout BKK.

Pardon me for typing inside your post --- my remarks are in Red.

I'm becoming very frustrated by the Abhisit government for several reasons:

1) They move too slowly. People need answers and they need them more quickly than the government has been able to provide them. The government needs to expedite their investigations.

Investigations take time. Investigations using more than one agency AND having observers from the opposition take even more time. Thoroughness is more important than speed.

2) There is little or no transparency. Strong accusations have been made. The government needs to be more transparent with their investigations. They do not need to reveal everything as the investigations are ongoing, but they do need to reveal something. Keeping everything too close to the vest causes people to suspect a conspiracy.

Investigations again are delicate. The foreign press (notably Al Jazeera) and diplomats have been let in on some and have reported it. Remember that there is a censure debate coming up --- where we will be subjected to all sorts of lies from the opposition and the government will HAVE to come clean with some then.

3) Independent investigations into the actions of the government and the military need to begin immediately. If they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.

They have begun.

4) The SoE needs to be lifted as soon as possible. There may be reasons the government is keeping it in place, but those reasons haven't been forthcoming.

The Reds have talked openly about Guerilla warfare. Those that are truly capable of doing that need to be nabbed before lifting the SoE

5) Financial blacklists need to end or be severely curtailed. This is in line with ending the SoE. The government cannot block accounts without a court order and strong evidence if the SoE is ended. Innocent people and companies may be suffering significant losses due to their accounts being frozen.

I agree that if there is no clear trail of financial acts supporting illegal activities that these accounts need to be unfrozen! If there are trails showing financial support of illegal acts then the people need to be charged.

6) The FM needs to go and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs needs to work better with the PMs office. Too often they seem to make pronouncements at odds with each other. This makes the government look substandard.

I WISH the FM would go .. but I doubt he will --- sadly his position seems to be safe.

7) Details of the Reconciliation Plan need to be made clear to the public. Everyone is waiting and wondering how this government will address the root causes of financial inequity and disenfranchisement of a large swath of the population of Thailand.

Details --- hmmmm. While the red propoganda machine is running will anyone that NEEDS to hear it actually hear it?

8) People being detained by under the SoE need to either be charged or released. This heavy-handed approach was repugnant when the US did it and it is equally repugnant now.

They get a court hearing every 7 days. Far more fair than other countries' treatment of .... I agree that they need to be charged or released soon but it takes time to put together so many cases at once.

9) Media freedoms need to be reinstated. The opposition media needs to be restored. Clear guidelines must be published about what are the legal limitations of free speech. It will then be up to all media to adhere to those guidelines or face censorship or closure.

I agree --- clear guidelines. Immediate closure and jail for the people that incite unrest instead of doing the job of reporting. There is room for propoganda --- after all even the US can tolerate FOX, but even FOX would be illegal in the UK.

10) Public meetings need to begin. These public awareness meetings need to bring together all aspects of society to work toward a better, stronger, less corrupt, and more egalitarian Thailand.

I agree but how do you have governent sponsored meetings in areas where government officials are being threatened?

11) Police reform must begin. I have no idea how this is to happen, but there is no doubt the Royal Thai Police needs to change their operations and become police whose mission is 'to serve and protect'.

I agree --- but "Good luck with that!" Thailand needs Serpico!

12) Elections need to be planned. While people understand that the specific date is difficult to determine due to the various unknowns in the problems Thailand is facing, a clear road map needs to be published. What are the preconditions necessary before elections can be held? This is a serious point. The government needs to address this and make the plan very public.

Elections Nov 2011

13) The PAD situation. Cases against the PAD must be expedited.

The PAD cases are in front of the courts --- you can't have an independent Judiciary if the governent can push the around

I have been an Abhisit supporter for several years. I am fully willing to drop this support if the government isn't seen to be doing positive works for the country. They need to begin immediately. It seems as if the government is stalling and obfuscating. This is not good.

I think the governent is moving with as much haste as possible. The issues are that the parliament opposition party is adding more muck to the process and it will only get worse!

Thanks JD. Your comments are valid. Perhaps I'm just an impatient bastard. I want to feel confident that correct measures are being taken to help ensure that Thailand comes out of this crisis and moves forward. I'm not yet convinced. I guess we'll just have to wait, watch, and make judgments as all the information comes out.

when we talk about Seh Daeng assassination, the first question that needs to be asked,

who would benefit from it?

It's not such a hard question to answer.

Agreed.

Out of interest, do you apply the same thought process to the red shirt who had his brains blown out, or international journalists being shot?

Who benefited from that?

It's not such a hard question to answer.

the red shirt protester you are referring to was shot right in the head in the midst of a battle.

the shot was fired NOT from the red's side, but it might as well have been a stray bullet, less likely though.

I don't know who shot the jurno guy, you don't know and  he doesn't either.

Most probably a stray bullet as well since the army men were shooting indiscriminately(watch a few videos)

Now, if you use your logical thinking, if you have any left that is, the question who shot Seh Daeng will not be 

a hard question to answer

Whatever you do, try to apply logic and  stay away from singha and chang, those can cloud your brain in no time.

I think you need to watch the video again. The general and overwhelming consensus has been that the redshirt protester killed on April 10 by a bullet to the brain was killed by a bullet coming from behind redshirt lines.

Abhisit said the number of 'terrorists' among red-shirt protesters was relatively small. Most red shirts were ordinary citizens.

<deleted>? Does the PM watch to much CNN and BBC, is he brainwashed by Dan Rivers?

what will the board mob of the ultra right-wing extremists say to such a comment?

I think they will probably agree for the most part. Nobody ever argued the point that the majority of the protesters were not armed with war weapons.

I'm becoming very frustrated by the Abhisit government for several reasons:

1) They move too slowly. People need answers and they need them more quickly than the government has been able to provide them. The government needs to expedite their investigations.

2) There is little or no transparency. Strong accusations have been made. The government needs to be more transparent with their investigations. They do not need to reveal everything as the investigations are ongoing, but they do need to reveal something. Keeping everything too close to the vest causes people to suspect a conspiracy.

3) Independent investigations into the actions of the government and the military need to begin immediately. If they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.

4) The SoE needs to be lifted as soon as possible. There may be reasons the government is keeping it in place, but those reasons haven't been forthcoming.

5) Financial blacklists need to end or be severely curtailed. This is in line with ending the SoE. The government cannot block accounts without a court order and strong evidence if the SoE is ended. Innocent people and companies may be suffering significant losses due to their accounts being frozen.

6) The FM needs to go and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs needs to work better with the PMs office. Too often they seem to make pronouncements at odds with each other. This makes the government look substandard.

7) Details of the Reconciliation Plan need to be made clear to the public. Everyone is waiting and wondering how this government will address the root causes of financial inequity and disenfranchisement of a large swath of the population of Thailand.

8) People being detained by under the SoE need to either be charged or released. This heavy-handed approach was repugnant when the US did it and it is equally repugnant now.

9) Media freedoms need to be reinstated. The opposition media needs to be restored. Clear guidelines must be published about what are the legal limitations of free speech. It will then be up to all media to adhere to those guidelines or face censorship or closure.

10) Public meetings need to begin. These public awareness meetings need to bring together all aspects of society to work toward a better, stronger, less corrupt, and more egalitarian Thailand.

11) Police reform must begin. I have no idea how this is to happen, but there is no doubt the Royal Thai Police needs to change their operations and become police whose mission is 'to serve and protect'.

12) Elections need to be planned. While people understand that the specific date is difficult to determine due to the various unknowns in the problems Thailand is facing, a clear road map needs to be published. What are the preconditions necessary before elections can be held? This is a serious point. The government needs to address this and make the plan very public.

13) The PAD situation. Cases against the PAD must be expedited.

I have been an Abhisit supporter for several years. I am fully willing to drop this support if the government isn't seen to be doing positive works for the country. They need to begin immediately. It seems as if the government is stalling and obfuscating. This is not good.

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

Cover up. Sondhi is a master in covering things up.

If you follow the leads you will end up in the Caribbean but the Postbox Lawyers' Office won't give you the shareholders names of course.

In fact it's a Hong Kong registered company and why on earth would a HK company move it's share to some obscure Caribbean island? Why..?

I wrote a detailed post about ATO not so long ago; I will try to look it up.

But, in fact it's not so important. There will always be pro & anti Red Media and pro and anti Yellow Media in Thailand.

LaoPo

It did a low level search and couldn't find anything conclusive. Your suspicions could be right. Or not. In any case, I haven't been able to determine the facts of ownership of ATO.

just because the government dreams about and some ultra fanatic Thaksin obsessed board members wish, hope and pray for it so hard, that Interpol will assist in the Thaksin hunt, doesn't mean it will somehow happen.

Just look all the previous attempt of the Abhisit government to get Thaksin and to get some help from Interpol or foreign governments. Total failure, or actually just propaganda smoke grenades.

keep talking about the evil Thaksin and avoid to deal with other issues.

pointing at Thaksin allows the Abhisit government to create their version of Two Minutes Hate.

Questions of overwhelming conclusive evidence and Interpol aside mazeltov, I have a question for you.

Do you think that Thaksin (1) provided large amounts of funding for the demonstrations, and (2) played a role in the planning of or gave a green light for the burning of Central World and other buildings in Thailand?

I sometimes do the same when the post I am quoting has a lot of blank lines near the end and I don't notice the "/quote" off the bottom of the screen.

But as I always preview my posts, I usually catch those problems.

What do you know. I've been posting here for almost four years now and thanks to you I have just noticed that preview post button. Thank you sir!

I began my illustrious posting at TV on the night of the coup. So much has happened since then.

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

Dramatic headline grabbing, no new detail padded out with the usual dialogue......any person with an imagination could easily have penned that article

er.....

and here is some video evidence to it

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Isn't that about the 18th time you've posted the same video and made almost the same comment? You are beginning to look like a propaganda merchant.

Several alternate possible explanations have been given to you over numerous different threads. In the end there is nothing conclusive about the video you are so keen to show over and over and over again.

Thanks mazeltov and JD. I wasn't aware of those charges.

Do they get to lock Thaksin up regardless of whether they get a conviction of terrorism? Yes. Does that mean they can proceed with the approximately 19 outstanding cases against Thaksin that require his presence in court at least once to proceed? Yes

Do you know of any definitive list of the outstanding charges against Thaksin JD. I haven't been able to find one.

Nah ... I quit keeping track. They haven't even bothered to file the newest set of 6 afaik (the criminal cases that can go forward since Thaksin lost the assets forfieture case)

Bummer. It sure would be handy to have such a list.

after last years songkran, the burning buses and so on, wasn't that a similar offence? They charged Thaksin for that.

Did they? Do you have a source for that? I wasn't aware of any charges against Thaksin over the events of Black Songkhran.

Do they get to lock Thaksin up regardless of whether they get a conviction of terrorism? Yes. Does that mean they can proceed with the approximately 19 outstanding cases against Thaksin that require his presence in court at least once to proceed? Yes

Do you know of any definitive list of the outstanding charges against Thaksin JD? I haven't been able to find one.

Ah, but there are flaws with that.

1) Thaksin has resigned publicly from the position of caretaker PM and then appointed himself back into the position.

2) The courts did NOT make any ruling on whether he was actually still caretaker PM or not. (for either issue) They hadn't ruled on his resignation and they had not ruled on what happens AFTER the mandated timeframe for him being in office as a caretaker had elapsed. The coup made those both moot points. (Something to be discussed in legal terms by students but having no bearing in real life since the situation no longer existed.) Those points never can be ruled on now since the constitution of that time is no longer the constitution of Thailand.

Do you have a source for this JD? I haven't found anything for this. I'd sure like to have some confirmation other than the pages of ThaiVisa.

last year I read about containers found underwater off the coast with bodies in them; then it disappeared off the news. Any new info on that ?

The death squad killings is about the only true fact known and frowned upon in France about Thaksin; apart from this here he's a "democratically elected premier ousted by a military coup".

At the time of the drugz killingz let's not forget Thaïland was flooded with yaba from Burma ; there had been the astounding story of the drugz factory-town erected over the border (with power generators transiting by trucks through Thaïland). Something had to be done quickly and not the usual way , which had been powerless.

Just for comparison we now often have drugz busts here in the million euro a year spectrum,complete with assault rifles caches in laundered money mansions . This is a real threat to any democracy and I wouldn't be shocked if Thaksin's death squad methods were applied here , since the judiciary system works soooo slow and sooooo soft and sooooo Mickey Mouse (caveat for divorced fathers of course).

I know there have been cases of relatives killed with the traffickers but I don't know about the specific cases stated in the article ; nonetheless, I feel ya ba and ya saï tit ( : heroïn) pedlars belong in better -to- be- forgotten graves.

The containers were suspected of being coffins for Rhohingya

Really? The Rohingya fiasco was in the Andaman sea. Whereas the containers were found off Sattahip in the Gulf of Thailand. Please stop presenting misinformation termad.

From an PR standpoint, it's also great for the government. Quite a few people(mostly idiot Reds and liberal foreigners) either don't know or have conveniently forgotten the murders committed by Thaksin when he was in power. They always like to talk about the coup that overthrew him but seldom about his misdeeds. I think the 3000 or so deaths(including the killing of the Southern Thais) will remind people what a truly evil person this man is.

What I remember about the war on drugs was that everybody thought it would be a great idea to make Thailand a drug free society to celebrate the King's birthday. I doubt very much that Thaksin was personnaly involved in the Police Operations to obtain this goal and it is just another sign of Abhisit's panic as he realises that he is on the way out and tries desperately to find anything, anything at all, to use as ammunition to keep him in power.

The way he is carrying on now is going to make him a laughing stock around the world if this is a another desperate attempt to involve Interpol in his vain attempts at extraditing Thaksin. Or perhaps he's going to bring criminal charges against individual police officers. Unfortunately that would require evidence which is something usually lacking in Abhisit and Suthep's wild accusations.

You will also remember (if you were in fact here at the time) that there were drug gang wars going on and so how many drug dealers were killed in shoot outs with the Police and how many were killed in shoot outs with other drug dealers would be hard to establish as many of those murders were not classed as being drug related as there was no evidence to confirm that they were in fact drug related. Perhaps the experts on this site can compile lists to present to the Police - I'm sure that they would be grateful.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Of course it wasn't Thaksin's fault this happened. Since when do any Reds take responsibility for their actions? Since when do Red supporters see any wrong done by their beloved leaders. Their shit don't stink.

2500 deaths is no small matter. Only a Red would dismiss it as an attempt at extraditing Thaksin. For the family of the victims, somebody has to pay. Thaksin ordered this 'war'. He was proud of it. He boasted about it.

It wasn't a war. What victims are you talking about - do you have names, dates, numbers? I am not disputing that Thailand committed gross human rights violations against the Rohingya. I am merely calling for you to hold yourself to the same standards of evidence you would hold others to.

Why haven't you leapt in to discuss the thousands of Rhohingya who were in fact murdered = for the heinous crime of being illegal immigrants.

I think what you need are some rationality pills.

What Rohingya murdered? Do you have names, dates, numbers? Come on termad. Up your game please. I'm not disputing the fact the Thailand committed gross violations of human rights against the Rohingya, but am merely suggesting you hold yourself to the same standards of evidence that you would hold others to.

Sniper, shot in the head...yes, it rings a bell. And the bell is still asking, who did it, and who ordered it? No one knows if it was the government, the reds, a 'third' party, or an individual with a grudge.

You're implying that it was a government sniper. If you can back that up with proof, I'd love to see it.

Immediate elections weren't good enough for the red shirt leaders. One of their last demands before the dispersal happened, was that the red leaders wanted Mr Abhisit to quit immediately, and place himself into voluntary exile out of the country.

That would make for fair and honest elections, wouldn't it!!! That would certainly be Democracy in action, if he had caved in to their demands and left the country. Sheesh....

"" If you can back that up with proof, I'd love to see it ""....what about you showing some proof that the red shirts did this and did that...all we heard were mis-info from the Abihisit machinary.....six people were shot and killed in a temple ( a house of God )...and you you want proof...the murderer is Thaksin that's what you want to hear, right........if such massacre happens in your country, tell us what will be the reactions.....

I can tell you what would happen in my country if an armed group of protesters takes over the downtown area of the capitol city and kills security personnel. I can also tell you what the public reaction would be if after they are forcefully removed they proceed to bomb, burn, and loot buildings throughout the city.

Yes sure, sure, a few more years...

and let's pretend this isn't perpetuating rule by the elites either...

Don't forget that for someone to be labeled elite by the reds they must not only be rich and hi-so, but they must be against Thaksin. That counts out Mr Tiida.

Your totally wrong.

To be considered an Elite family you do not have to be rich or be seen in high society. You have to be able to trace the descent of your family back to the first Chakri king Rama 1. If you can do that you are allowed to put the capital letters MR in front of your family name. For example the Govenor of Bangkok, Sukhumbhand MRParipatra.

Having said that I doubt that Thaksin or any other Thai could match the wealth of the Elite families accumulated over generations. And they are determined to hang onto their wealth, huge land holdings and power.

So by that standard which of the cabinet members are elite? Korn, Korbask, Abhisit, Suthep? Any?

Thank you for pointing out your preferences on quoting. In the future I'll follow your suggestion. However, Thaksin was only forced into a position of caretaker PM because the Democratic Party refused to contest the 40 uncontested seats. (They wouldn't follow the requirements of the rules of the 1997 constitution because they knew if they did they would lose!) They also knew they had the court in their back pocket and they could win by having the court overturn the elections. Indeed that is what the court did. Things went downhill from there with a succession of court rulings which eviscerated the TRT, PTP, and made it impossible for anyone associated with the Thaksin government to run for politics. And regardless of all this history it still doesn't change the fact that caretaker or not Thaksin was forcibly removed by a military coup.

You are only partly correct. Thaksin was a caretaker PM from the moment he dissolved parliament. It had nothing to do with the Democrats.

The Democrats abstained from the election because there was not enough time to fund and run a proper campaign, due to the timing of Thaksin's dissolution of parliament. Additionally they believed that Thaksin was attempting to use the polls to whitewash his actions related to the Temasek deal.

The TRT then paid smaller parties to run against TRT in certain districts in violation of the constitution. This was one of the reasons for their ultimate dissolution.

The courts were legal and ruled appropriately. Your claim that the courts were in the back pocket of the Democrat party is a libelous fabrication.

It is also a fabrication to state that politicians could not be associated with the TRT/PPP. What are you talking about? We have the PTP party who is the third version of the TRT. The PPP was dissolved because an executive member of that party was filmed engaging in electoral fraud. In accordance with the constitution the PPP was dissolved, legally and correctly. At this time 5 executives from the PPP were banned from politics for 5 years. The party list MPs lost their seats because the PPP no longer existed. By-elections were held to replace the party-list MPs who lost their seats. PTP politicians were fielded for these by-elections.

Every MP in parliament today was elected by the people, either through a direct constituency vote or through a party-list proportional vote. The PPP governments relied on coalitions partners to form a majority. When the PPP was dissolved the coalition partners dropped their support of the newly formed PTP replacement party because of their terrible performance as government. The PPP had not accomplished anything at all during their time as government and they were stained by electoral fraud and corruption. So the coalition partners switched sides to support a Democrat led government.

It should also be noted that the PPP could have dissolved parliament forcing a new general election up until the day they were dissolved. They chose not to do that because they believed the PTP would be able to retain the support of the coalition partners and thus from a new majority government. They were mistaken. The coalition partners were under no obligation to realign themselves with the PTP and they didn't. I state again, the PPP chose NOT to dissolve parliament and have a general election when they were likely to be dissolved. It is this that makes it completely ridiculous for them now to claim that this government is illegitimate.

The majority of MPs in parliament support the Democrat party to head government. Each of these MPs was elected by the people. This government has majority support from the people through their duly elected MPs. There is nothing illegitimate or illegal about this government and people who say otherwise are being disingenuous.

For what most Thai police do they might be OVERPAID.

Indeed.

This is headline news???????????????????????????????????????

You're in the land of a fish sauce consuming population, including myself. It is big news for Thai's and consumers alike

i love the taste and the salty flavour it adds

but i'm allergic to it! my hands swell up and itch like crazy. i've only just discovered it was that what was doing it ...

That salty flavor you taste is added salt and MSG (monosodium glutamate or 'pom churot' in Thai). That's a large part of what all the dark colored sauces are at the shops and supermarkets. Few fish have salty taste. The sauces are basically fermented fish entrails, with water and a whole lot of MSG and salt added. If you saw the inner workings of any fish sauce makers, you'd probably swear off the stuff for life. Welcome to Thailand.

Soy sauce is a bit of fermented soy bean, with black coloring, water, and MSG/salt added. Kikoman (from Japan) is comparatively better quality soy sauce, but still has additives. I won't allow MSG in my house. Last year, there was a wedding reception here, and fourteen women (mostly hill tribe, with some Thai) were getting started on the prodigious cooking chores. I saw took two packets of MSG and, with them all watching, I opened them and poured them in the waste can. The looks on their faces were precious.

I haven't heard of anyone being allergic to MSG, but you might check it out. There's a simple way to test for allergens. Take a clean razor and nick your skin, then rub a tiny bit of the item on. If it gets pink (like a pimple) and/or itchy, it probably causes an allergic reaction within your body.

I had a childhood allergy to MSG. It was one of the main causes of the migraines that plagued me in my youth but have mostly disappeared as an adult.

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

That means you paid fines or bribes 12 times?

That's exactly what it means. Some were 200 bt under the license and others were 500 bt. Twice I had to go to the station. I guess it would be more fair to say that I have been extorted 6 of the 12 times I've been pulled over.

This doesn't include the random checkpoints on highways where they aren't really after cash as long as you have a proper license and have paid your annual tax for the sticker.