way2muchcoffee

"Please show me the video evidence that conclusively shows plenty of unarmed protesters being shot by military bullets. The problem with video evidence is that the video camera cannot simultaneously be on the shooter and the victim. Therefore when someone goes down it is not possible to say where the bullet came from."

You must be blind or in denial of the facts. Did you not see the footage of the journalist being repeatedly shot?

Do you have a link that conclusively shows anyone being shot by the military? I do mean conclusively. That is a video showing a soldier with a weapon firing on someone at a range where both the shooter and victim are in the same frame?

I do not doubt that soldiers killed protesters. I suspect that some of those protesters killed were not carrying firearms. But I do doubt claims of 'most' or 'all' or any such thing. And I have yet to see anything conclusive on any of the deaths.

The goverment said that soldiers were authorized to use live rounds only in self defence.

Nearly all those shot were unarmed and the journalists most certainly were. Shooting one journalist multiple times shows they were intent on killing people not just disabling them. Either the goverment was lying or the soldiers disobeyed orders either way the authorities have a lot to answer for. There should be an enquiry to determine the truth but of course there won't be.

As an aside True Internet went down earlier today and their support line had a recorded message saying that due to the state of emergency high speed internet would not be available for a while. What were they up to? Perhaps just adding to the hundreds of blocked sites!

Of course you have no evidence to back up your claims.

I can just as easily say that nearly every injured protester was armed at a minimum with molotov cocktails and at worse with AK-47s and grenade launchers. Just saying something does not make it true.

The fact is that unless you were present at every injury, knew precisely who fired every shot, and kept meticulous notes, you cannot possibly make any claims about how many injured protesters were unarmed.

The evidence is there on film. Plenty of unarmed being shot. Not one bit of film showing an armed protester being shot. That is evidence!!

Shooting an unarmed journalist 3 times is also on film and is evidence.

Please show me the video evidence that conclusively shows plenty of unarmed protesters being shot by military bullets. The problem with video evidence is that the video camera cannot simultaneously be on the shooter and the victim. Therefore when someone goes down it is not possible to say where the bullet came from. This is an unfortunate limitation of the use of video cameras.

The only video evidence I saw of someone being shot that was definitive was of a soldier being shot by a redshirt while being pulled from the back of a truck.

deleted

The goverment said that soldiers were authorized to use live rounds only in self defence.

Nearly all those shot were unarmed and the journalists most certainly were. Shooting one journalist multiple times shows they were intent on killing people not just disabling them. Either the goverment was lying or the soldiers disobeyed orders either way the authorities have a lot to answer for. There should be an enquiry to determine the truth but of course there won't be.

As an aside True Internet went down earlier today and their support line had a recorded message saying that due to the state of emergency high speed internet would not be available for a while. What were they up to? Perhaps just adding to the hundreds of blocked sites!

Of course you have no evidence to back up your claims.

I can just as easily say that nearly every injured protester was armed at a minimum with molotov cocktails and at worse with AK-47s and grenade launchers. Just saying something does not make it true.

The fact is that unless you were present at every injury, knew precisely who fired every shot, and kept meticulous notes, you cannot possibly make any claims about how many injured protesters were unarmed.

hi eggs benedict addict,

if you want the best ones go to the jwMarriott breakfast buffet and ask them to whip some up for you

or at the bourbonstreet restaurant near washington square theatre they have it on there breakfast menu

EGGS BENEDICT (09) A Bourbon St. SPECIAL

Two English Muffins topped with Canadian Bacon 190

or Smoked Salmon 220

or crab cake 270

Poached Eggs and freshly made Hollandaise Sauce.

Served with Hash Browns or Home Fries or Tomato

enjoy them not cheap but worth it

cliokchi

i would avoid borbons streets eggs benny, the hollandaise is not to my liking.

Agreed. At Bourbon Street they use a bearnaise sauce instead of hollandaise. It just isn't right.

At this stage only a fool would write off the Democrats, just as a fool would write off the PTP. Both sides have significant support. Will come down to what sort of a job Abhisit does, now that he doesn't have the distraction of insugents burning down the capital. It's his time to shine. The side of Thailand that isn't red prays he does just that.

Let's just hope Abhisit has the power to push the dinosaurs in the Democrat party to support policies and law of real merit for the benefit of all Thais. He has done a decent job with this so far but he needs to do much more, and it needs to be very visible.

I wonder what will happen at the end of next year when there is still no reconciliation?

Will Abhisit find some way to not have an election because there is still work to be done

or if any party wins except that backed by the army, will there be another coup?

I dont believe there will an election, I believe that elections will be called but will never take place because the army will find reason to stage a coup. Democrats cannot win an open election and they know it and they cannot allow the reds in. Letting the reds in and then using the courts and the military to remove them would just be a tad too much for decent people. The reds will not need to buy votes, pictures of dead protesters will ensure their votes. Reconciliation - not coming to a place near you soon. Nobody wants it. It would be nice if it happened but the army need to concede ground and the reds have to forget revenge... wont happen

I think there will be an election. I think candidates on both sides will be murdered, with more Dems getting killed. I think PTP will be able to campaign in the south but the Dems will be prevented from campaigning in the North and Northeast. The PTP will commit massive electoral fraud while the Dems will be guilty of minor violations. The elections will go ahead, but will be tainted.

It will be a very close contest, but the current coalition will win the day. The reds will demonstrate and the PTP will cry foul because they will likely win a plurality and will feel cheated that they don't get to form government, even though they won't control the majority of the MPs. The PTP will be an obstructionist opposition party.

If current coalition partners realign with the PTP giving them control of government the PAD will come out of the closet and demonstrate over the unfair voting practices in the North and Northeast. In this case the Dems will act like a proper opposition party and form a shadow government and respect the vote. Thet will be willing to work with the PTP (as an opposition member) and will not try to obstruct policies that are good for the country.

All of this assumes that the Dems are not dissolved before the elections and that the current constitution will be in place without amendment. Constitutional changes could be made that gets the Dems off the hook and sees the banned TRT and PPP candidates' eligibility reinstated.

And of course you have data to support your claims of how many of the half million Thais/Thai-Americans living in the US support either the redshirts or the government?

You don't need a pole. Just get out and talk to a cross section of foreign Thais on your own and you can get a pretty accurate feel as to how many support who and what. Even if ALL the Thai Americans supported the elitists, which of course they don't, they would only total about fifteen percent of one percent of the entire US population. If you have any Thai-American friends you will see they can be broken down into pretty much 3 groups.

Group 1.) Those who are from Bangkok and vicinity and who are of at least upper middle income families or higher who support the present government and the status quo.

Group 2.) Those who hail from dtang jangwat and who distrust the army and support democracy and the red shirt movement.

Group 3.) Those from the second, third and even further back generations of Thai Americans who have now completely integrated into American society and who know very little if anything about what is going on in Thailand and don't seem to care much about it either.

A simple 'no' would have sufficed.

The title of this thread being .."A Victory For Thailand In Washington" is pretty misleading. Neither the American public or it's government could care less about Thailand no matter who's in charge.

I would wager a half million (and more) would disagree with that

Whereas approximately 500,000 people of Thai descent live in the United States and foster strong cultural ties between the 2 countries

The US has a total population of about 320 million people. Simple arithmetic tells us 500,000 people of Thai decent comes out to around 0.15% (that's 15% of 1%)of the total population and of that tiny number a significant proportion of them support the Red Shirts and another significant portion (the younger ones) don't care one way or another. That leaves the percentage of Abhisit supporters so small that statistically it might as well be zero.

I therefore stand by my statement that neither the American public or it's government could care less about Thailand no matter who's in charge and that's the way it should be. It's none of our business. The Congress has said they favor reconciliation and a peaceful resolution to the conflict; and that's good enough.

And of course you have data to support your claims of how many of the half million Thais/Thai-Americans living in the US support either the redshirts or the government?

There will be a Government Sunday only high school program - specifically design for those who left school at 13 years - some where in your amphur which will allow her to graduate with a high school certificate, which in turn can be used to study at a diploma college, the certificate from that college allows her to enroll at a university. sukhothai open university would be an option meaning she can study from home. of course it won't happen over night... think 7-8 years from start to completion.<br>

Is that true? I was under the impression that the high school certificate offered through the adult education classes qualifies a person to attend university.

simple answer, NPP know they will not win - so they don't run for election. Same as Mark did 2006.

And if the Democrats candidate win - 100% for sure that he will join NPP after the dissolution. Nothing mysterious here.

The Democrat MPs who were not executives at the time of any alleged offences and thus not banned, will form a new party

as TRT became PPP and then PPT.There's no need to join NPP.

^repaired broken quote.

They will split, falling apart into different factions. Bangkok MPs will most likely join the NPP. Under Chuan Leekpai, as the elder leader, the 'New Democrats' will become a strong regional party of the South.

ํYou've been saying this for months. You could be right. I think not, but I am not the all-knowing. We'll have to wait and see.

Do you have first hand experience of this?

I have first hand experience of parents not having the money for the clothes and books required for secondary education.

Books and uniforms were free this year for children in my extended Isaan family. No cost for the books, and cash was handed out to purchase the uniform in town.

Perhaps some families spent the cash that was provided for uniforms?

Also, It is a rare family in my wife's village that somehow cannot find the money for alcohol, even though their children are wearing rags.

The New Politics Party withdrew its candidate. Could one of the reason be that the Democrats candidate will join NPP anyway after the the dissolution of the Democrats?

Wont happen. Take a look at some of the recent stuff in Thai by NPP and PAD about the government. It also isnt all as expected in their analysis if you read it but it is very very critical of government especially on corruption, bureacracy and coalition manouvering with Abhisit getting blasted unusually hard. NPP and Dems might compete for an overlapping electorate but their own aims and nuances are quite different. Even Kasit has been slammed by NPP/PAD

So why the NPP don't contest in this election? They could campaign with all these points.

Abhisit and the coalition aren't criticized from outside the parliament and from the PAD only. Inside the Democrats and the Democrats in the parliament - there is a strong yellow faction. It is an illusion to believe that the PAD and the Democrats have nothing in common and are two totally different entities. That may true for the leaders, but not for the members, there are many overlaps.

It's really pretty simple. The NPP knows they won't win. They fear that by running they would harm the chances of the Democrat candidate. They would prefer a Democrat in the position compared with a PTP representative. So they withdrew. Nothing mysterious here.

Let him run its only fitting. Then after he losses we can see what excuses they come up with.

It's not about whether he wins, it's whether he gets the expected 20% or more of the vote. If he does it's goes to show the red shirts rally is completely justified as bkk is certainly going to be one of their lowest support areas of the country. It an important indicator for their support in the so called 'rich' south

That would be a logical fallacy. It is impossible to predict the future election results country-wide by examining the results in a single district. One most know the makeup of the population in the district, their past voting record, historical party alignments, the particular region, the economic issues in that region, the performance of the previous representative for that region, etc. etc. etc

1. Sacking an outspoken maverick General (OB)

2. Leadership ballot to replace a gutless leader (Rudd)

3, Apologising for Northern Ireland's Bloody Sunday (CMD)

Just three recent examples from mature democracies!

Sod all to do with this topic! I know!.

More power to the Beeb, those feisty women journo's they employ (World service) are worth the licence fee alone ha ha.

PS: CMD is the UK's HM Forces topical nickname for the old Etonian new PM - have fun working it out.

Apologising for Northern Ireland's Bloody Sunday? After 38 years the UK Government gives a half-arsed apology and this is evidence of a mature democracy? Hmm...

It only took Japan about 65 years to apologize for the rape of Korea. More evidence of a mature democracy I guess.

Surat Thani Governor Damri Boonjit said no one was killed in the

accident, which would have no impact on the tourism on Pha Ngan and

Samui islands.<br>

<br>

He said police were investigating the case.

nice to see he has his priorities right

Not " we are doing all we can to help the injured and will make certain nothing like this happens again". He would rather just infer that it will have no impact on tourism.

Indeed.

Would be nice if they would pay a good wage to Thai workers and keep it a NON union shop.

The wife has a nephew that works for Toyota as a mechanic at B300 per day.

SICK.......6 Pounds 25 Pence a day. .....and how much does a Ford/Toyota truck sell for......???

And what would it sell for if labor costs doubled or tripled?

Given the description of 'Premeditated murder' - how would you define the decision to send in armed troops?

A security operation to disperse heavily armed and demonstrably violent insurgents holding hostage the capitol city.

Yep. Central Department Stores usually carry Rockport shoes.

On my first visit to Thailand, over 10 years ago, I dropped my cigarette end on the ground and was approached by a Thai man. He told me that he was an off duty policeman and that littering was an offence, with an on the spot fine of 1000baht. He suggested I pick it up and put it in a bin, which I did.

So, it's not a scam and it's not new.

Disappointing if the police were ignoring Thais doing the same; though as they were at work maybe they swept up after themselves later? (Don't laugh!)

Littering is an antisocial menace, and wherever I am these days my fag ends go into a bin, or at least down a drain!

And don't get me started on those sticky spots of chewing gum that cover the pavements everywhere in the UK!

If you do put your cigarette down a drain and one of the police near Benchasiri Park sees it, you will be charged for littering the same as if you threw it on the sidewalk. This is a major problem considering that you are not allowed to smoke indoors by law. So you must smoke outside, and yet there are no bins anywhere throughout the city.

These merchant/police 'scams' are common. There is a zebra crossing in front of the Jungceylon in Patong. If you park a motorcycle in such a way that even the tip of the handlebar hangs over the crossing stripe the local shop will padlock your motorcycle right there for your return. A tuk tuk will be waiting nearby to take you over to the Kathu station where you will pay your 500 bt to the police plus 200-300 to the tuk tuk guy. The duty officer will make a call to the shop owner, and in the 1 minute it takes to get from police station back to your bike, the padlock and chain will have been removed.

Oh well. We all know it is a land of scams and corruption. We choose to be here. The longer you are here, the more aware you are of the various scams. You simply learn to change your behavior to avoid the scams. It's the same with traffic infractions. They can mostly be avoided once you know how.

Just curious. What if I inherited a decent sum of money from my father while I'm married. Does that money get split at divorce as well? If not, what about purchases made with the money?

We (wife and I) live on about 80,000 bt per month. Some months run well over 100k while others are as low as 65k.

Rent: 13,000

Power: 3,500

Food: 10,000

Restaurants: 5,000

Mobile Phones: 2,500

Water: 500

Car Payment: 9,000

Internet: 1,000

Home Phones: 500

Transportation: 10,000

Petrol: 2,000

Cigarettes: 5,000

Alcohol: 6,000

Entertainment: 5,000

Shopping: 3,000

Weekend Getaway: 6,000

As it stands now on Narathiwas, which already had terrible rush hour traffic, they have taken 1/3 of the road space and devoted it to a bus lane that is virtually empty. They also added u-turn stop lights that further compounds the traffic situation. What was a 30-minute trip by car is pushed up to over an hour. All this to serve a very small minority of the commuters who will take the bus.

The whole idea is ridiculous. I'm all for public mass transportation, but this BRT idea is a major cock up. They should have made it an elevated train so as not to further overburden heavily trafficked roads by removing lanes. The current BRT system leaves one whole lane on in either direction virtually empty as the buses only run every 5 minutes.

... the reality is that few if any of those supporters would have supported a "revolution", so it is highly unlikely he would have even attempted such a thing.

Of course you are correct. The protesters weren't supporting a revolution. Their goal was something much less sinister.

They demonstrators were merely attempting a 'violent overthrow of government', something wholly different from a revolution.

It should also be noted that the article of the UN Human Rights Convention referenced by the AHRC refers to the shackling of prisoners in prison, not in hospitals. I could not find anything from the UN specifically addressing the issue of restraining prisoners in hospitals.

Here is an excerpt from the US Statutes regarding the restraint of prisoners in hospitals.

Hospitals: In an unsecured hospital ward, prisoners will be restrained. Leg irons will be

used to restrict a prisoner to or in a hospital bed. Handcuffs will be used in the event leg irons

cannot be used or must be removed. Handcuffs will be applied prior to the removal of leg

irons. Restraints should not be used when compelling medical reasons dictate, including

when a pregnant prisoner is in labor, is delivering her baby, or is in immediate postdelivery

recuperation. (added 10-30-2007)

The statutes are 28 CFR 0.111, and 28 USC 561 (g).