K2938

1 hour ago, aublumberg said:

At long last we may see a rapid rise in LTR visa interest if the tax exempt benefit for LTR-T/P/W categories remains (and no indication for any changes).

There is indeed a remittance tax benefit of the LTR visa, but since it appears to only apply to earnings which have arisen while holding the LTR visa, the benefit is probably not so great.  Moreover, it is still entirely unclear how mixed funds will be treated and mixed funds will be the category in which most prior earnings/savings probably will be for most people which could make bringing any prior money into Thailand a nightmare.   Probably things are taxable unless you can prove otherwise and the proving otherwise could be extremely difficult/impossible in many or even most instances.  If it is concerning current salary, then the benefit is clearly there, but most LTR visa holders do not work.

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

1.

 

Question: What are the principles of the Revenue Department Order No. P. 161/2023 dated September 15, 2023?
 Answer: Revenue Department Order No. P. 161/2566 is an explanation of the legal principle according to Section 41, paragraph two, that a person has a duty to pay personal income tax.  from foreign sources of income  When entering into the following elements: (1) a person has assessable income from foreign sources;  In the tax year that is in  Thailand from 180 days or more and
 (2) that person brought such assessable income into Thailand in that tax year;  or in subsequent tax years
 Result: If both elements above are complete, that person has a duty to bring in money.  That assessment should be included in the calculation for personal income tax.  In the tax year received  Bringing that assessable income into Thailand
 Example: In 2023, Mr. A. is in Thailand for a total of 200 days. Mr. A. has assessable income from renting property located abroad.  By receiving rent money  into a bank account located abroad. Later in 2027, Mr. A. transferred the said money.  into a bank account in Thailand, Mr. A must bring the said assessable income  that have been imported into Thailand are included in the calculation for personal income tax for the tax year 2027.

@Lorry  Thank you so much for your tremendously useful translation of the Q&A on the proposed remittance tax changes from the Thai Revenue Department.  Highly appreciated!

6 hours ago, Guavaman said:

Fellow aliens subject to the income tax system in the Land of Smiles:

 

It is highly unfortunate for all AN members that the OP “More details on Thai taxation of overseas income” referred to misinformation published by ScanAsia as “More details on Thai taxation of overseas income October 3, 2023 - by Gregers Møller.

 

I suggest that AN readers completely delete the content of these postings from their memories, and immediately cease referring to them in posts and comments on AN to reduce the confusion created due to these posts.

 

What these “journalists” may have been referring to is the recent online publishing by the Legal Division of the Revenue Department Public Relations News on 2 Oct 2023 of “Q&A (in Thai) on this Revenue Department webpage:  Q&A คำสั่งกรมสรรพากร ที่ ป.161/2566 ลงวันที่ 15 กันยายน พ.ศ.2566

 

This webpage presents an informative clarification in a well-formatted set of 11 questions, answers, and examples (in Thai) regarding the recent Order by the Director General of the Revenue Department for use by RD officials in implementing the new Order.

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/centralize/news_law_update/2566/QnA41_2.pdf

Thank you for posting this.   This appears to be potentially very useful.  Thank you for drawing everybody's attention to this. 

Unfortunately, Google Translate seems to have a big problem in translating many parts of this document intelligibly, but hopefully somebody who speaks Thai well on this forum can look at the document and translate.

14 minutes ago, Hiane said:

Maybe I wasn't specific enough, I'm talking about offshore money that hasn't been taxed. As I understand, until the end of this year I can remit it into Thailand tax-free, and starting January 1st 2024 this won't be the case anymore ?

Only if (1) either you are not a Thai tax resident or (2) if the remittance does not contain any income from the current year.  Otherwise you will also have to pay taxes on remittances in 2023

12 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO the best strategy is to wait and see what deveops during 2024. It will be June 2024 before anyone becomes a tax resident of Thailand, and it will probably be later in 2024 that the Thai RD has provided all the details and processes.  A tax return is required to be lodged by end March 2025 - so it will be quite some time after that before the Thai RD starts investigating/chasing people (Thais and Expats). There is lots of time to pack the bags and get out of Dodge if this thing goes sideways. 

Yes, nothing you can really do at the moment, though if you want to avoid tax you really need to make preparations to leave by June 2024.  The worrying thing concerning foreigners however is that they do not really have a lobbying organisation making their voices heard and I doubt that the Thai government reads aseannow.com to find out what they think.  So while foreigners are the unintended collateral damage in all this, they might well stay there for lack of voice.

1 hour ago, Antti said:

The Elite Visa program was rebranded as Thai Privilege Visa and relaunched 1st of October. On the website in the FAQ section it says:

 

Do I have to pay income taxes in Thailand as a Thai Privilege visa holder?

The Thai Privilege Visa is a privilege visa which falls under the special tourist visa or privilege entry category. The Thai Privilege Visa holder does not need to pay income taxes especially when the income was derived abroad. There are instances where a Thai Privilege Visa holder may voluntarily pay income tax in Thailand.

You are misled by an agent website.  As you might know agents make a lot of money in commissions from selling Thai Elite visas and therefore have a great incentive to tell you anything to close a deal.  You will NOT find these statements on the OFFICIAL website of Thai Elite.  They are WRONG.

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO there are only three viable countries for most Expats - Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia.

Why is Indonesia attractive from a tax point of view, please?

5 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

For a PM and finance minister from Pheua Thai, a party that prides itself on upholding democracy and democratic principles, to support this arbitrary style of imposing illegal changes to long standing laws rather than going through proper parliamentary procedures is nothing short of extraordinary.

Well, they need the money to fund their electoral gifts and would not have the parliamentary majority to do things properly as was pointed out in various commentaries

3 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

My point was that ในปีภาษีที่ล่วงมาแล้ว could mean "in the previous tax year" or "in a previous tax year" because Thai has no definite or indefinite articles.  However, if parliament had intended it to mean taxation of income in prior years going back to the year dot, they would surely have made that clear by saying something saying similar to the wording used in 161/2566 to clarify that it meant in any previous tax year whatsoever. As you know Thai officialese never uses one word when 10 words would better convey the meaning.  In fact, if parliament intended open ended taxation of past earnings, there would have been no need to even mention "previous tax year". They could have just stated that foreign sourced income is taxable. but using the phrase  "in the previous tax year" was logical because it was consistent with local income from the previous tax year that has to be declared in annual tax return forms.

 

I can't find Resolution 2/2528 (1985) but its existence to clarify that the Article 41 only referred to the previous tax doesn't appear to detract from the interpretation that parliament only intended to tax to tax the previous tax year, rather the opposite. At any rate Kittipong makes a good point that principles of taxation dictate that in cases of ambivalence in tax law, tax authorities should make interpretations in favour of tax payers. 

40 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

I get around the current laws by transferring my money to an offshore holding account prior to the end of the year, then remitting it to Thailand at the start of the next year.  I am thus able to show that the money was in the holding account on January 1st, and no further money was deposited into that account prior to my Thailand remittance. 

Thank you for sharing the excellent advice you got from your tax advisors.  Now separately from this, just in case the current system remains, why for your remittances do you take the intermediate step via the "offshore holding account" and not just transfer directly whatever you want to transfer from abroad on Dec 31, meaning that the money will arrive in the following year then anyway without the "offshore holding account"?

45 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Not strange at all. Some countries require worldwide income to be declared if one is tax resident.

But NOT if they only tax REMITTED foreign income as is the case in Thailand

21 minutes ago, moogradod said:

It is actually @TroubleandGrumpy who said this, but lets assume that you really did not pay tax for lets say a few years, 4, 5. Do you then think it is better before December 31, 2023 to approach the RD to declare that instead of occasionally get caught in 8 years if this seriously worries you ? It could well be that many are in this situation. I have even heard the story (nothing but rumour of course) of someone who wanted to declare this pension but was sent home by RD. They said at the time it was too complicated for them to verify when what was paid when and did not even provide him with a tax ID. But this may be just a story (which I can hardly really believe I must admit).

Do not do anything like this before there is full clarity on what is going to happen and what the detailed implementation rules will be.  Otherwise you might seriously hurt yourself.  Also doubt that this information will be available before the new year.

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

"The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand. This is a significant change from the previous rules, which only required you to declare foreign income that was remitted to Thailand. The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required. However, it is important to be aware of the new rules and to start planning for how you will comply with them."

Very strange about declaring ALL income if it is not remitted and not sure what the purpose of that should be.  If you do not mind the question, may I ask if this was from a highly reputable tax firm, like one of the Big 4?

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

My understanding is if you are here for 180 days+ BUT are not eligible for taxation e.g. because you have been transferring money in the year after it is earned you strictly speaking do not have to register - you are kind of on your honour to register if you have taxable income.

True, but I interpreted your question such that you wanted to ask if by not having a TIN you could avoid violating the new tax rules.  And that would not be the case.

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

What if under CPR or just anyways Thai banks insist on a TIN to open or MAINTAIN a Thai bank account? Anybody not already registered for tax would have to register for tax in order to maintain the account and be able to present a bank book at extension time.

 

SCB ALREADY requires a TIN to open a new account for foreigner apparently. There is always the risk that could be extended to existing accounts.

 

Views?

It does not really matter since not having a TIN does not spare you from taxation.  Some people have mentioned this, but this is just an illusion.  If you entered Thailand legally which I assume, the Thai authorities know about you and can find you.  Having a TIN facilitates things for the Thai authorities, but not having one does not really save you.

1 minute ago, leedm said:

Thanks.  On the BOI website it says over 150MM USD in revenue, any idea what that actually means, is it annual turnover or gross or net profit or something else ?

Revenue = annual turnover

3 hours ago, leedm said:

First question is,  will they consider the US companies turnover when determining the criteria.

Initially some people got away with arguing that the ultimate parent company turnover counts.  But the BOI then changed this and did not allow it any longer.  So unless the BOI has changed its practices again, that would unfortunately mean a no for you.