K2938

Very strange about declaring ALL income if it is not remitted and not sure what the purpose of that should be. If you do not mind the question, may I ask if this was from a highly reputable tax firm, like one of the Big 4?

True, but I interpreted your question such that you wanted to ask if by not having a TIN you could avoid violating the new tax rules. And that would not be the case.

It does not really matter since not having a TIN does not spare you from taxation. Some people have mentioned this, but this is just an illusion. If you entered Thailand legally which I assume, the Thai authorities know about you and can find you. Having a TIN facilitates things for the Thai authorities, but not having one does not really save you.

1) There is an email from Thai Elite posted about this a little higher up in this thread which you might want to check. 2) Some Thai Elite agents historically claimed that - allegedly - there would not be any tax whatsoever for Thai Elite visa holders, but this was never correct. Thai Elite visa holders only had the exemption for foreign earnings not remitted in the same year of earning like everybody else. 3) With the proposed tax changes this would be over for Thai Elite visa holders just like for everybody else (with a potential minor exception for LTR visa holders of certain foreign income). 4) So if this change is actually implemented, this will have a devastating effect on Thai Elite visa sales since many justified the huge fees by the tax advantages. 5) Since the Thai government makes a lot of money from the sale of Thai Elite visas it is possible that they will exempt Thai Elite visa holders to avoid this money stream stopping. One would imagine that Thai Elite is aggressively lobbying for this behind the scenes, but what the outcome will be nobody knows. 6) You might want to ask for a deferment of your membership until there is clarity about the new rules. And if you are not granted this deferment and tax is important to you, then you might want to pass on the visa. 7) Using foreign credit cards would most probably be tax evasion. With enough effort from the Thai authorities, it would also be possible to trace this. If they will do this or not, again nobody knows yet.

Just by analogy have a look at these UK rules (shown here even in a simplified way) and you can see that things can get extremely complicated with remittance taxation: https://pjdtax.co.uk/updates/can-i-transfer-money-to-the-uk/ Of course, nobody knows what the eventual Thai rules will be, but you should expect a bureaucratic nightmare

Revenue = annual turnover

Initially some people got away with arguing that the ultimate parent company turnover counts. But the BOI then changed this and did not allow it any longer. So unless the BOI has changed its practices again, that would unfortunately mean a no for you.

Why only 2% if the marginal income tax rates in Thailand for many wealthy people are much higher. 2% would be a gift which will not happen

That is the whole intention of it???? Technically called contaminated/commingeled/mixed funds. And if you cannot prove what is what which you most likely will not, then all gets taxed. At least that is how it works in some other jurisdictions I am familiar with.

Thank you for this. Without wanting to be disrespectful of the article, I would suggest that this is more in the clickbait category. Moreover, the article does not claim that the prime minister said this measure would particularly target foreigners and any potential interpretation of the situation given in this article by the journalist is not what the prime minister said. So rest assured that foreigners are not the target, but the unintended collateral damage. But thank you for posting this.

I do not recall this and it would be silly since taxing the few foreigners will not lead to huge tax revenue. Can you please check the quote you refer to and post it here, if it exists? The only thing which the prime minister said I think is (quoted from Bloomberg): “Some people may not be happy that I am digging in to this area, but inequality is a big issue,” Srettha said, referring to the growing wealth gap because of tax loopholes. “The principle of tax is that you must pay tax on income your earn no matter how you earn it.” So nothing about foreigners. They are not the prime target, but the unintended collateral damage.

We just have to see how things will develop. Foreigners are clearly the unintended collateral damage in all this. Probably nobody even thought about foreigners when drafting this and if they did, then they did not really realize that the typical foreigner starts with all his or her money outside Thailand while for the typical Thai it is exactly the other way round. So these requirements are much more onerous for foreigners and moreover foreigners have it much easier to escape from all this by just leaving Thailand which is not really an option to the average Thai. So while it is entirely possible that the doomsday scenario will happen, it is also entirely possible that foreigners will be either entirely carved out from this once the authorities had a chance to think through this or there will be so wide loopholes for foreigners that it will not really be very onerous for them. We just have to wait and see how things will develop.

This email from Thai Elite posted by somebody else on the internet by the way also talks about taxation of SAVINGS, but the future will tell... P.S.: As I am just reposting this, I cannot personally confirm the accuracy of this email, but I do not really suspect that anybody would fake this

@MistyBlue, I happily admit that I cannot guarantee you the validity of my answer at this point of time where many things are still in flux. I can only say how I would interpret what the BOI has said. And this is now moreover not only my evil suspicion, but has also been confirmed by @hwas post above about his conversation with the BOI: So based on what we know today I would answer your question with a clear no. As it would appear that the authorities have not really thought through all this and as this would greatly decimate the number of wealthy foreigners living in Thailand and bringing in money which is something the authorities should be interested in (read: LTR and Elite visa holders), things might change again in the future. But right now my best guess to the answer to your question unfortunately would be a very clear no.

Unfortunately my suspicion mentioned above with the caveat "if I read this correctly" now also appears to have been confirmed by the BOI as just posted by @hwas on the main tax change thread in this forum. So I am just cross-linking this in case there are people not following both threads:

Indeed. But there is a strong incentive for the authorities to work out some sort of special exemption for the TE visa because otherwise the number of further TE visas sold will most likely totally collapse as many people justified the high TE visa fees by the tax advantages. And since the Thai government makes big money from selling TE visas, they have an incentive to work out some sort of special exemption to keep this money flowing. But strong incentive does not mean it will necessarily happen, so we will see what the future brings.

I wish you were right, but that is unfortunately not at all clear at the moment as the 250k savings are surely income of some prior year. And if by comparison you look at other countries taxing remitted funds, then in some of them this would be a taxable event, in some it would not. So how things will eventually be construed in Thailand nobody unfortunately knows at the moment. The fact that the LTR exemption does not appear to cover this is therefore a real potential problem.

Thank you for posting this. So if I read this correctly, this would unfortunately mean that the tax exemption under the LTR visa - if even this is maintained - is really of the minimal possible amount as it ONLY covers income earned while holding the LTR visa. So if you now get a LTR visa and then transfer let's say 250k USD from your foreign savings to Thailand to buy some real estate or fund your general living expenses, then this will NOT be exempted as these 250k USD are NOT income only received AFTER holding a LTR visa.

Thank you for posting this. So if I read this correctly, this would unfortunately mean that the tax exemption under the LTR visa - if even this is maintained - is really of the minimal possible amount as it ONLY covers income earned while holding the LTR visa. So if you now get a LTR visa and then transfer let's say 250k USD from your foreign savings to Thailand to buy some real estate or fund your general living expenses, then this will NOT be exempted as these 250k USD are NOT income only received AFTER holding a LTR visa.

The problem with Malaysia is that the conditions of their Second Home Visa are very onerous and expensive and if you go there for 6 months without a visa you will probably get into trouble even if you leave some time between the different stays. Or what visa are you thinking about using for Malaysia?

Thank you for posting this very useful email from the BOI. May I ask if you received this email before or after the announcement of the new taxation of foreign remittances from Jan 1, 2024 onwards? If it was after, then it seems rather weird that the BOI continues to claim that "normally, your overseas income will be subject to Thai personal income tax only when you... have brought such overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year that you... have received such overseas income" which obviously will not be the case any longer from Jan 1, 2024 onwards.

I wonder if "prior year" in the English version of the Royal Decree for LTR visa holders really means "prior years" and the whole thing is just a translation mistake. This is just a guess, not something I verified myself. But somebody should.

While the statements of the BOI provide some comfort to LTR visa holders, the honest truth is probably that currently nobody - including the BOI - really knows what the final outcome will be and all this is kind of a giant negotiation between all interested parties. Having said that however the chances of LTR visa holders to escape the tax are probably better than those of any other group of foreigners since they do have the Royal Decree which no other group has. Quite well positioned are probably also Thai Elite visa holders since the program would show a devastating decline of applicants if the tax benefits do not remain and these people pay big money for their visa which directly goes into the Thai budget so there is a strong incentive for the government to protect them. But what the final outcome will be really only the future will show.

According to the BOI managing the LTR program this is incorrect. According to them LTR visa holders are exempt from tax on income remitted to Thailand as you can also read in the LTR thread on this forum.

Currently having or not having a Thai tax number should not make any difference whatsoever. If you are legally staying in Thailand which I assume applies to most on this forum, then the Thai authorities know about you regardless of if you have or do not have a Thai tax number.