TroubleandGrumpy

How it works is as follows. Anyone who lives in Thailand for a total period of at least 180 days is a tax resident of Thailand. The new rules/interpretation starts from January 1 2024. Under this new rule/interpretation if you stay full-time from Jan 1 2024 to June 30 2024 you will be a tax resident (having stayed for 180 days) and the new rule/interpretation will apply to any income you have generated anywhere in the world. There are many unanswered questions including the one that directly relates to what I wrote above - "Is that 'tax payable' applicable when I bring that income into Thailand, or is it applicable even if I do not bring that income into Thailand'.

You and I and many others think the same - I will be avoiding paying any taxes in Thailand, mainly because I get absolutely nothing for them. IMO what little I do get, is more than paid for by the amount of VAT I pay, which is well above what most Thais pay (and most Thais do not pay income tax either). If they created a new category for long-tern Visa holders, and I was no longer subjected to all the 90 days, TM30s, Annual begging, etc etc., and I was provided with the same rights and services as Thais are - then I would be happy to pay income taxes in Thailand. When we lived in Australia for a few years my Thai wife was required to pay income taxes. BUT she got what I asked for above - none of the Immigration khrapp and full rights and all services (including free hospitals and subsidised medinies).

Not sure if anyone has already answered - like you I am going throiugh them again today - waiting for the Rider Cup to start. The Thai DTAs are an Agreement (not Law). Thai RD is not skilled in understanding all the DTAs it has with 61 countries. There is no clear directive from Thai RD on how to prove money in another country has been taxed. There is no clear advice from my home country about how I would go about giving proof to Thailand RD.

I agee with most of what you are saying, but I will also point out that what you are saying is exactly why so many of us are very concerned. The Thai RD is not well organised, efficient or rational - they will have a lot of trouble implementing this new rule - which means they will screw it all up - and I certainly do not want to be in the position of being 'in their sights' during the first year or two of this change. They are going to be severely under pressure to 'get more tax money' and theu will be like a nasty IO on steroids. If you think they will have the time or inclination to patiently listen to your/my pleas that our 'income' (money transferred into Thailand and reported by the bank/s to them) is either exempt from taxation, or not subject to taxation under DTA, or any others claims you/I make, then you are very very mistaken. Added to that is the potential that even if you/I start under the horizon for a year or two, the Thai RD will come knocking so to speak. When it comes to all taxation departments, they have 3 main functions - they have many but 3 main ones. 1. Processing the taxation returns given to them; 2. Providing advice and directives in regards to taxation related definitions and interpretations; 3. Investigating individuals and organisations that may have avoided taxes (now and in the past). They are 3 different groups of people and you do not want to be 'targette' by group 3 staff, and I cannot imagine that in Thailand they would be as 'reasonable or skilled' as those in my home country.

June 30 2024 becomes the deadline if you stayed in Thailand since Jan 1 2024 - you are then a tax resident of Thailand for 2024. That is the date I will be researching towards and planning about. Will I still be here because it is all OK; or will I be gone before then; or will I wait and see how it goes year 1.

Never thought of that - you devious bugger ???? I bet that the scammers are already working through how to pretend to be Thai RD Officers, and that the calls and Facebook Posts will start early next year. Most Expats are too experienced to get caught - but the local Thais will be a target - especially since the majority of them have never paid income tax and would not know what a tax retrun is.

The 180+ days is already done and dusted - you become a tax resdient of Thailand if you stay longer (in total) in any calendar year. I am still waiting their answers to that and a few other questions I asked. I think someone in the office did closely examine what words they were using - not a good thing for a legal/tax organisation. And I bet the only reply I will get is 'each poerson is different, you need to come in and speak to us (for a fee)'.

Yes - the firm's interprtation of the statement was 'earned income' irrespective of whether remitted or not. In the past (Thai RD decision) it was only 'taxable income' if/when it was remitted into Thailand in the same year that it was earned. Now it is taxable income whether remitted or not in the same year. The big question, as asked by another poster is (changed to mean exact) - 'does this mean only income earned overseas after Jan 1 2024, or can they go backwards into the past?'. My read is that it only applies to income earned from Jan 1 2024 onwards when this new interpretation started. However who knows how Somchai will decide. Yes it is - and that is just one of the many current contradictions - the Thai RD have a lot of work to examione all the ramifications and provide detailed advice in order to get this right. 3 months means they aint gonna get it right - maybe a year or two I would say. I asked - they have not answered.

As I indicated to another this was in an email from a legal firm in Isaan to all of its clients (I used them mnay years ago). As with all their legal advice/direction it is private and not for general public etc etc bla bla. As I replied to another member - it was not one of the big legal/tax firms in Bangkok.

I agree with your logic - and I also believe that this is 'probably' a misunderstanding - thus the reason I provided all those caveats with the firm's statement in my post. They have still not answered me. However, it is a legal/tax firm that has been in business for many years. If they can get it wrong and misunderstand things (whoever wrote the release) then there is also a likelihood that Somchai in the local Isaan That RD Office will too. I have found the 2023 Thai RD Tax Form and Guide - and (so far) I have not found anything in there that provides the details about income for foreigners from overseas Pensions and Savings remitted into Thailand. 080966Ins94.pdf (rd.go.th) 080966PIT94.pdf (rd.go.th) Still no info from the Thai RD rtegarding this matter - maybe this year? Home | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

I agree 100%. I/you/we do not need to do anything until end June 2024 - that is when the deadline hits and those in Thailand since Jan 1 will become tax residents for 2024 calendar year. Hopefully our issues and concerns will be answered well before then - obviously not directly - but that the Thai RD will have advised the tax experts and public about how they will implement this new rule. Meanwhile I am bringing in a little extra over the next few months - but not in any big lump.

No - it was from a legal/tax firm in Isaan. I too am not sure they have got it right - hence why I put all those caveats. But having been in Thailand (on/off) since 2012 I would not be surprised if Somchai in the local RD Office tries to nail me/others for not reporting money sent into our bqank accounts as taxable income.

Yes that was me. And that is the issue - should we tell them we have income but it is not taxable (IMO). Or should be keep our heads down for a while - at least until all the initial trouble starts. You know it aint gonna be good - I pity the first Expat nailed over this and hope it is not me.

OK - Thanks. I will change my post to:- "That is what seriously worries me. In 5-8-10 years time I receive a letter from Thai RD claiming that I owe millions of baht in back taxes, advising me that my passport has been 'held' and any attempt to leave Thailand before finalisation of the issue is a criminal offence and will be severely punishable (and will be an admission of guilt). 10 years it is - I guess that is better than 12 years or more ????

I just got another 'nightmare' scenario just sent to me by a legal/tax expert: Quote: "The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand. This is a significant change from the previous rules, which only required you to declare foreign income that was remitted to Thailand. The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required. However, it is important to be aware of the new rules and to start planning for how you will comply with them." Please note that this is advice and may not be pertinent or correct or apply to everyone. But if I/we are now legally required to report/declare all of my 'foreign income' to the Thai RD (meaning all my transfers into my Thai bank account) this is going to be a nightmare.

Good article - he basically says (and proves) that this 'money grab' is both unlawful and a bad idea. I wonder if the PM is listening - and who he is listening to.

That is another example of what is seriously wrong in Thailand. Those of us married to a Thai, especially those who are from Isaan, know only too well the positive impact our money has on the locals - especially those that live there. But the majority of the Thai authorities do not want to know that fact for vested interests. And when it is shown - the Thais quickly hide the truth, because they know that the authorities do not want to know. Thailand - the ultimate epitome of 'the XXX has no clothes' syndrome. Some would say that Pita was the young boy who spoke out (far too loudly).

I saw the quote and they were still waiting for confirmation that it would still not apply after this change. The Thai RD or PM has not stated that the LTR Visa holders who stay over 180 days will be exempt from this new rule interpretation on income earned abroad and brought into Thailand. If I have missed that press release or statement please provide the details. The whole idea is to stop money 'laundering' and to raise income taxation - maybe they will be exempt, but maybe not. Yet another case of 'watch this space' because no one really knows. What I do know, freely available info on the web and from local Thais, is that the Thai RD has a history of totally screwing up taxation rule changes. They often over-enforce, then pull back, then start again, then pull back again - totally disorganised and extremely inefficient (compared to ATO or IRS etc.). Up until now they have just not bothered trying to tax Expats - too much work and too hard - but when they start something they are like a rabid dog and they go for everything they see move. If you think they will exempt any Visa holder, unless specifically told to by HQ, then you dont know how Thailand bureacracy works.

It starts 1 Jan 2024 - yes so money transferred after that is the issue. BOI are not the PM or RD. I have (both) and the tax expert does not know - needs more details on how they will implement this change.

Something tells me he is one of the good ones, and that we are going to hear a lot more about Surachate Hakparn. The fact that he 'attracted the attention' of those in the Thai Police who wanted to make sure he does not become Police Chief so they raided his house in public - speaks volumes. If he was one of 'them' (corrupt) then they would not have taken such steps to make sure he did not get appointed as Chief this time. This is a guy that was 're-assigned' to the HQ 'black hole' many years ago, and re-emerged a year or so later, and then became a Deputy Chief. He made some senior police upset over how he harshly dealt with the police involved in that execution of a policeman by a mafia member, and because of that the station police boss killed himself. Many years ago he had 7 bullets fired into his car, and he was told to back down when investigating the matter and that was when he was 're-assigned'. Those things and many other things tells me that he is one of the good guys. But TiT and I could be wrong.

Same in Australia.

When you go somewhere in Thailand are you alone - if you have a Thai wife/gf then place the booking her name and avoid providing passport - that way no TM30 is done and you dont have to when returning. If you are alone - it is likely they will lodge a TM30 - but ask them if they do - say you would rather they dont. If they say they will do, or you think they will, you need agent/condo to lodge a TM30 when you get back to condo. If you go overseas, your agent/condo must lodge a TM30 when you return - they have record of you leaving the country. The issue/problem becomes what happens at annual extension - some places strictly enforce the rules and penalties, some dont bother.

I hear you and understand - my Thai wife is in the same boat for Australia. For her getting to Australia was about the same as for me getting a Thailand Retirement Visa some years ago - but after that her path to Residency and then Citizenship was easy and achievable.My path to Residency and Citizenship here in Thailand is basically impossible - and I am a far more 'valuable' resource to Thailand, than my wife ever will be to Australia. IMO Thailand should have different Resdiency requirements for citizens from 'selected' countries, such as USA and Australia, that make Residency easier to be achieved. The Thailand Immigration Act, Laws and Proceedures were made in the 1970s and they are still mentally and structurally back there. I do agree that Thai Citizenship should be much harder to achieve than it was for my wife in Australia, because I can see what would happen if it was too easy. But Thai Residency should be far more achievable - and perhaps one day in the future it will be.

Nail on the head HIT. Tax exmpt in Australia means less than $18,200 (427K Baht today). Tax exempt in Thailand is 150K Baht. Which one applies under the DTA? Thai RD does not respond, and website useless, as expected. Do I have to pay to ask a Thai tax accountant? Anyone here know the answer?

Yep 57 pages and it is totally voluntary - both to read and write. Noen of the That taxation professionals know - and that is the problem. But even then, as my accountants back home always advised over the years - it is worth knowing and doing what is needed BEFORE it becomes a problem, rather than waiting until it is a problem. I will never forget the best example - "they are going to start taxing money in super funds over xyz amount and I suggest over the next month or two you move abc funds into your bla bla investment accounts". Sure enough, 3 months later the Govt announced new taxation rates for super funds - applicable immediately. If you know of a taxation expert in Thailand that has all the answers and knows exactly what and how the Thai RD is going to do it, please pray tell us all. Meanwhile I am interested in hearing what others think and any information, and I will likewise share what I think and information I find about what wil happen after Jan 1 2024 - voluntarily.