TroubleandGrumpy

I have had a few questions via PMs and someone just sent some xxcellent questions. After writing and reading my replay, I decided to post this on the forum. In My Opinion - as always, everything below is IMO. Can you please explain why TRD,in the past have not pursued their share of tax from expats remits that are assessable income as defined in most DTA's? I visited TRD office to enquire about a TIN, I was advised that I do not require a TIN as my pension/income is from my home country and I only need TIN if I have Thai income. In the past TRD ignored all Expats incomes from overseas because it was too complicated and not worth all the trouble. That was because of many reasons, but the main one is that Govt Pension payments were/are not taxable as per the USA-Thai DTA, and most Expats back in the early days (70s/80s) were US Citizens. The other main reason is that it was assumed that any money an Expat brought into Thailand would have been 'held' for 12 months to enable it to be tax free. Those reasons are the main reasons why local TRDs who have been approached by retired Expats since this 'new tax regime' announcement in September 2023, have said no to a TIN, because it is not needed unless the Expat is working in Thailand. In Thailand things do not change easily or quickly, and it has been 'common practice' by the TRD for decades, not to expect Expats and most Thais to lodge a tax return (nor enforce). Following this statement in my view they ignore the tax benefits to Thailand by not pursuing DTA benefits available to them. So have they never collected this money? The new PM (Srettha) instructed TRD to broaden its tax base to get more tax money because the economy is screwed, and that included removing that 'rule' that meant income/investments earned overseas was only taxable if brought into Thailand in the same year. This removed one of the main reasons they did not enforced the taxation of Expat's money remitted into Thailand, and the PM said that it was OK to do that (tax Expats). TRD did not (and does not) want to enforce the taxation of Expats, because the efforts required to assess all those retired Expats who are on a Government Pension is not worth the effort. Thailand has 61 DTAs and therefore each TRD Office would need to know all the exemptions and allowances in each of those DTAs in order to be able to process the tax return of an Expat. Perhaps TRD is going to centralise the method by which all Expats lodge a tax return, including those that earn money through working and/or investments here. And remember, all Expats means not only the 400-500 working and non-working 'western' Expats, it includes the 2 million workers employed in Thailand who are citizens of other countries, but who also mostly dont lodge tax returns (most earn SFA). Right now all PIT tax returns are processes (and taxes paid) in the local Province TRD Office (that includes online lodgement), located mostly within the local Amphur Office, and they aint going to 'give up' that money (or Office and staff) easily - so that it can all be transferred to the Bangkok HQ - and if that transfer did happen, any such change will take a long time to implement. As they have not created any new "Tax laws" I expect that things will stay the same. Your thoughts? I expect the vast majority of TRD Offices in the Provinces and Bangkok, will not to be able to deal with this new BS from this BS PM, and therefore they will carry on as per normal. You can almost guarantee they will get no extra staff and no extra budget and SFA training - which when added to the above means to me that nothing is going to change for a long time. However, that does not mean that at some time in the future the TRD will not centralise the lodgement of all Expat tax returns, and then comb through the financial arrangements of some Expats, and then pursue them for past tax returns. However, reality tells me that if/when they centralise all Expat's tax returns, unless an Expat has over many years been regularly remitting into Thailand large amounts of money, being well over the amounts from a Govt Pensions and some Retirement savings, then it is unlikely that they will bother most Expats. The 'alternative universe' in which every Provincial TRD Office is fully staffed and trained on all the different DTAs that Thailand has with other countries, does not and never will exist - in my opinion. However Part 2 - TRD is planning on implementing a worldwide taxation system and if that happens, then the goalposts will be moved, and the game will be changed, and everything I stated above may not apply. There is a lot of negative feedback, both external and internal, going to TRD and the Thai Govt about the possibility of implementing a worldwide tax system. Much of that negative feedback is about the internal TRD processes and systems - they are not capable of dealing with the complications of worldwide tax system as they are currently structured, and staffed, and their IT systems. Expats have to wait and see if TRD goes this way, because the ramifications could be huge for us. But that could also mean nothing - who knows what they will do - TiT.

Extremely unlikely, because many Expats do not exceed the thresholds and or after TEDA, like 30+ million Thais, they dont have to pay taxes and so they dont lodge a tax return.

Others have answered the questions - so my advice is this. Check out if those 'investment earnings' you had planned on living on, will be taxable income in the future under Thailand's new tax regime. If they are (and they probably are), then calculate how much that is cost you, and then decide if that is acceptable to you. If not, then base yourself elsewhere where they dont tax retired Expat's money, and visit Thailand for under 180 days total each year.

Says the bloke whose last few posts include :- "I don't hate Trump, but he has no qualities that I respect in a human being and, so, has no place in any position of power." I guess that means you respect the qualities of Biden and Harris and Clinton/s and all the other corrupted useless Dems? "He's currently too busy questioning whether Harris is Indian or Black to be much use to me right now anyway." Why would Trump give a rat's rear about being any use to you? "Until you stop believing that the US "right" has the same balance as the "right" anywhere else in the world, you're ALWAYS going to think that anyone that is anywhere near the centre of the political spectrum is left wing." Below is what Musk said and he is right about the current reality about the Dems. Mate - your statements are delusional and pathetic.

They whinge about everything mate - their far-left mental problems are more than just <removed>.

May I give some advice to you and anyone else who does get contacted by the TRD in 2025/2026 and asked to explain why they did not lodge a tax return for 2024 and/or 2025, because they remitted XYX Million Baht into Thailand (as shown in their banking records). Make sure you have all written records of all the banking transactions (in Thailand and in the home country) and proof of social security payments (Govt letter etc) - if anything is online then save them and print them off at the end of each year and file away (just in case). If you are asked to attend an appointment then take those docs and go see a tax accountant and show them all that - the tax consultant that you will take to see the TRD Officer with you. If it is in the Provincial TRD then get a local one, if it is in Bangkok then get one from there. If the request asks you to respond in writing, then do the same as above and get the tax specialist to write the letter for you - in both English and Thai. If that is not an option (using and paying for a tax specialist) then get all those docs and write a response in English. Then get all the docs and letter translated into Thai - there are many online resources these days. Take all those to the appointment, or send them if a written response required. If TRD does go ahead and start to enforce this new 'tax regime', then IMO some of us will be sent a 'request for information' in the next few years. The only reason is because all that TRD gets is the amounts of banking transactions - they do not get an explanation of what the money is and where it came from - so they could ask. Best to be prepared in advance, just in case asked. IMO it is best not to do things that are clearly tax evasion, because it is 'unfair' to tax Expats - better not to stay in the country for 180+ days. But if someone did evade taxes deliberately and they got that call/letter in 2025/2026 - IMO they should probably immediately invoke Plan B.

Anyone thinking of using the 'gifting' rule needs to be very careful and double check, perhaps including getting professional advice. The gifting rule means that a person who RECEIVES a gift (such as money, house, cars, etc) is not liable for taxation if it is under that clause/rule (as determined by the TRD) and they are eligible, and it is below 20 or 10 Million Baht (depending on who they are). The rule was made to stop people gifting their houses/fortune to their wife/kids as a means of avoiding inheritance taxes - that is why the limit is 20/10 Million Baht. IMO that does not mean that someone can give their total salary from employment to their wife and/or kids as a gift, and not be subjected to scrutiny by the TRD for doing that only as a method of tax evasion. Otherwise of course, everyone would do that. The use of gifting needs to be very carefully considered, if the form of the money being gifted is, or could be, declared by the TRD as taxable income.

Not IMO - I am more than happy to discuss the rules, interpretations of the rules, past decisions about the rules, and the possible consquences of what could happen when/if the rules are interpreted or enforced or not enforced etc etc. Being in business for many decades, I am used to planning for and discussing the 'rules' - it is not a matter of doing that for reasons of fear or scaremongering - it is simply planning ahead by examining the options and the upsides and downsides of any possible course of action. However, if anyone does get scared or worried about all this, then IMO they should avoid these 'discussions' and wait until December 2024 and only then check in on what is happening.

Then it is possible that the TRD could decide you only did that to avoid taxation on that income. However, perhaps TRD has already ruled/decided that income that is gifted is not taxable income - I do not know. However, I am very sure that for the recipient it is not taxable income under the gifting rules. I think you should find a good honest Expat tax accountant and get their advice on what to do.

No IMO that is not a problem. Does that money come from income or from assets/savings?

Mate - it aint gonna disappear and go away - until the Thai Govt excludes Expats Pensions and already taxed income overseas. It started in September when TRD made the announcement and Bangkok Post published it. Bangkok Post - Amendment to see overseas income taxed dn161A.pdf (rd.go.th) From there it was blown up by the tax 'experts' looking to drum up business - they started the fear campain. But it truth, those of us with personal experience of the Tax Depts and how they can severely punish people, did over react (mea cupla). TRD staff stated many times Expats have to pay income taxes and 'contribute to Thailand'. Expats have been complaining - for many valid reasons - TRD could have stopped it - but chose not to (Falang pay mentality). Now read this - "How do Foreigners living in Thailand pay tax" (by your loving TRD) Foreign-sourced income tax-no logo (expattaxthailand.com) What is being discussed now is not how bad it is (and could be) anymore - we have moved on. Discussions now are mainly about how to deal with the issue, and how to reduce/eliminate Thai taxation (not tips on evasion - illegal).

Mate - no need to do that - I have just started an Australian focused thread. Just do the same for UK. And someone should do it for USA. That way this thread is about the main issues - and anything related to specific countries is in other threads. This thing aint going away anytime soon.

Disclaimer - my opinions only - bla bla bla. If I may - that is not totally correct - that is an assumption - and is IMO that assumption is wrong. If you look at the rules in the Revenue Codes regarding Gifts and rulings as applied later, and most tax experts websites, it is clear that gifting money or assets to your spouse is covered under the tax free limit up to 20million baht. There are many circumstances where that has impact and/or can be used by a married Expat in Thailand However, lets talk about one - the remitting of money into Thailand as a gift to your wife. If that money is taxable income that would otherwise be subject to taxation, then that is when the 'retained benefit' could be an issue. If that money was income earned before 1 Jan 2024 and/or was from savings, then it is not taxable income. So the only taxation applicable money gifted to a spouse, that has taxation implications is taxable income. Then the matter is as clear as mud - it might be tax free (up to 20Mil) or it might not be - no one knows 100%. And that includes the tax experts - Thailand does not work on precedent and/or strict rules - it is up to each Officer. It is worthwhile knowing what that rule/law is all about and why it was done. The reason for that rule/law and why the limit set at 20 Million, was because gifts were tax free in Thailand. But then Thais were gifting their assets (and money) to their spouses and children when they got old, as a way to avoid inheritance taxes. 100s of Millions of Baht at a time! For the rest of my views and what I think is AOK - read between the lines and follow my earlier advice (and what others have said many times).

I have done the numbers for Aussies and provided my thoughts - just focused on Aussies though (7k to 12K Baht for some).

This post is provided as a personal opinion and is meant to be nor is being presented as legal, financial or taxation advice. The writer is not a tax lawyer or a tax adviser, and everyone should get their own taxation advice from an accredited professional. This information is provided merely as one person’s experiences and opinions, and is not to be taken as advice. I am posting this to provide a simple and clear summary, as I see it, of the income tax situation in Thailand as at July 2024 for Aussies living in Thailand who are not working here or otherwise earning money in Thailand (online sales, investments, market sales, etc etc). I decided to provide what I have calculated and utilised for the basis of my decisions regarding the potential income taxes to be paid by myself (and Wife) as an Australian in Thailand. Rather than just add this to the existing large threads regarding income taxes, I have created it as a separate thread for Aussies. Obviously some of the points are applicable to those Expats from other countries, but this is really focused only on this new tax regime as it affects myself and other Aussies. Any feedback about matters I have missed and/or errors that I have made would be appreciated. EVERYTHING WRITTEN BELOW IS ‘IMO’ (IN MY OPINION) If you want official or guaranteed information – pay for and get written advice from a tax consultant, tax accountant, or tax lawyer DEFINITIONS Tax resident – 180 or more days in total within any calendar year. Resident and resident – A ‘Resident’ is someone that has the legal right to live and stay in a country. A ‘resident’ does not have that legal right. Please note - in Thailand many documents are less than ‘professional’ and the need to be distinct when referring to a ‘Resident’ verus a ‘resident’ is not always evident. Very few Expats are Residents of Thailand, even fewer are Citizens, but the vast majority of us are residents. Just because you may have an LTR Visa does not make you a legal Resident – it is legally a ‘long term resident’ Visa. Taxable Income (under new rule) – Income earned after 1 Jan 2024 that is remitted into Thailand by a tax resident in a calendar year (2024 for this case). Obviously the money that an Expat is earning in Thailand is taxable – whether a tax resident or not (requires a work permit usually). Income – money earned from working or investment returns etc. as defined in the TRD Tax Code – it is not savings, superannuation, etc. (as also defined). Below are links to the relevant important TRD websites regarding PIT in Thailand. For whatever reasons when copying from the webites or my source document, the pasted links are not links. So I have had to just paste the web addresses. https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html (TRD - Personal Income Tax – includes tax rates) https://www.rd.go.th/english/38306.html (TRD - Tax Revenue Code - everything) https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html (TRD – 2023 Personal Income Tax Guides) https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_90_66_Complete.docx - (ภ.ง.ด.90 Lodgement Form) - ภ.ง.ด.90 is the one for income ‘not only employment’ (TRD words) Rather than start this post with all my reasons why IMO the Aust Aged Pension is not taxable income when remitted into Thailand under the Aust-Thai DTA, I have decided to provide the ‘basic numbers’ first. I have made these calculations based upon the standard exemptions and allowances in the Thailand Tax Code and 2023 Lodgement Guides, and as previously advised and summarised in the other ‘tax threads’. After this first step, I will below put forward why I think the Aust-Thai DTA actually means for the Aged Pension. Part 1 – Taxes Payable when the Pension is Taxable Income when remitted to Thailand (I do not think so - but just for this part of the exercise) On the basis that the Australian Age Pension when remitted into Thailand is taxable income - the following is provided. Payment schedule and rates for people outside Australia - Age Pension - Services Australia Maximum Overseas Single Pension Rate (July 2024) $27,271 AUD Maximum Overseas Pension Rate - Married (July 2024) $20,607 AUD Centelink Exchange Rate – July 2024 ฿25.53 Maximum Overseas Single Pension Rate (July 2024) ฿696,229 BAHT Maximum Overseas Pension Rate - Married (July 2024) ฿526,097BAHT Please note that these figures are all using the current official Centrelink exchange rate. I have also calculated the numbers using the ‘real’ current exchange rate – which is what matters – the actual income remitted. Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) – Married Couple a) Personal Allowance for self (PA1) - 60,000 ฿60,000 b) Personal Allowance for wife (PA2) - 60,000 ฿60,000 c) Over age 65 years exemption (OAE) - 190,000 ฿190,000 d) 50% of Pension up to 100k (PD) - 100,000 ฿100,000 e) 0-150,000 TAX FREE ฿150,000 e) 0-150,000 TAX FREE ฿150,000 Total Deductions Exemptions and Allowances ฿710,000 Therefore after TEDA IMO a married Expat receiving the Aust Age Pension has no income taxes to pay when he and she lodge a joint tax return, and they both make no other additional taxable income. Additionally, that same married Expat and his wife can remit an additional 183,903 Baht before income tax is payable. Like I said above, any income earned by the Expat, or his wife, in Thailand is taxable income and would be added to the age pension (if it was taxable). Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) – Single a) Personal Allowance for self (PA1) - 60,000 ฿60,000 c) Over age 65 years exemption (OAE) - 190,000 ฿190,000 d) 50% of Pension up to 100k (PD) - 100,000 ฿100,000 e) 0-150,000 TAX FREE ฿150,000 Total Deductions Exemptions and Allowances ฿500,000 Therefore after a single Expat receiving and remitting all the Aust Age Pension has a total income of ฿196,229 after TEDA. I have calculated that the taxes payable on that amount of taxable income payable would be ฿12,122. However, those figures above assume all of the age pension is remitted into Thailand, and all of it is at the Centelink Exchange Rate in July 2024 of ฿25.53 If it was all remitted at the current today’s Wise rate (฿23.52) the total Single Pension would be ฿641,413. Which would mean a total taxable income after TEDA of ฿141,413 which equates to income tax payable of ฿7,070. However, there are additional TEDA allowances/exemptions, such as Health Insurance premiums. Each Expat needs to check the numbers in the TRD Tax Guide and Revenue Code, based upon their own financial situation. Part 2 – The Australian Age Pension is Not Taxable Income when remitted to Thailand (IMO) https://www.rd.go.th/english/859.html (The Thai-Aust DTA) Many people think a ‘DTA’ only refers to double taxation and tax credits – that is common, but it is not the case. As per the title – it is an Agreement between Thailand and Australia for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion regarding taxes on income. Under that agreement, in addition to the agreed rules for avoiding double taxation by tax credits, are also agreed rules as to which country can tax which income. There is also detailed the overall rights of the Citizens of both countries – in order to protect their interests when living/working in the other country. The big issue for retired/married Aussies in Thailand, is whether the Age Pension is taxable in Thailand under the Thai-Aust DTA. And there is not one single clause under which that is made clear – it is like all Agreements where several Clauses can have impact on any matter. Part A – Article 18 and the Clause mentioning the word ‘pension’ https://www.rd.go.th/english/856.html#article18 “Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.” Some have said that the Clause means Age Pension is taxable income for a tax resident in Thailand. But others have stated that is not the case and that it is not the intent of that Clause. I emphatically agree with those in the latter group – because the Australian Age Pension is ONLY payable to Residents of Australia (not residents). You cannot apply for and get the Pension when not a Resident of Australia – you must be a qualified Resident or Citizen of Australia and show you have a home there and intend the stay. After being away and returning, then only after 2 years of being on the Pension can you apply for and get ‘Portability’, but that does not mean you are no longer qualified as a Resident. What that means is that your Pension has become ‘portable’, but your qualifications to receive the payment as a ‘qualified Resident’ remain in place – they are just made ‘portable’. Becoming a tax resident of any other country does not change that qualification – you take that qualification with you – hence the legal term ‘portability’. What is missing in that Clause within the DTA, is the intent with regards to Government paid Age Pensions – versus private pensions as a means of payment for services rendered. Private pensions and annuities are certainly taxable in the other State, but IMO Government Pensions are not intended to be taxed in the another State. The following is Clauses from other DTAs that Thailand has with other countries covering that matter (Government paid Age Pensions) IN OTHER DTAs 1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 19, pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, pensions paid and other similar payments made under a public scheme which is part of the social security system of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. ALSO IN OTHERS DTAs Any pension paid by the Government of one of the Contracting States to any individual, may be taxed only by that Contracting State. AND THE THAI-USA DTA Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first- mentioned State. IMO the intent of the Clause is to ensure that Government Pensions paid by one State are not taxed by the other State – what Govt wants their taxpayer’s money going to another State? Private pensions and annuities are certainly taxable in the other State, but IMO Government Pensions are not intended to be taxed in the other State. I note that the Thai-Aust DTA has not been updated for a long time, and it is clear that Article 18 and its associated Clauses need updating, as other DTAs have been. Unfortunately, when I looked through the various DTAs of countries, it was very evident that when these were written (back in the 80s) the main thing they were thinking about was the payment of a Government pension or wage to citizens of their own country who were working in the other country as a Government employee (such as in Embassies). They did not want those ‘pensions’ and wages paid to their Government employees and ex-employees taxed in Thailand. Unlike some DTAs that have been updated since then (as above), the Aust-Thai DTA has not been updated to reflect the large number of Australian retirees living in Thailand, and I am certain the Aust Govt wants their taxpayer’s money being paid to the Government of Thailand. Part B – What the TRD defines as a ‘Pension payment’ https://interweb1.rd.go.th/cgi-bin/intra_search?q=PENSION;t=5;field=1;page=1;long=1 (open and click ‘translate to English’) The Company is obliged to pay a pension to the wife as a monthly alimony until the wife dies or remarries. Pension paid by the Company does not qualify as a non-independent personal service under Article 16 of the Convention between the Government of the Kingdom of Thailand and the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland because it is money paid due to Mr. Chen's past work. This is a ruling from the TRD regarding a decision made whether payments are taxable income or not (in this case they are). What it shows is that a ‘pension payment’ is understood by TRD to be other than what some people think – which is a payment from a Govt funded social welfare system. When the words 'pension payments' are referred to by TRD, that is not related to a Government Aged Pension – the definition very much is focused on a private pension payment. Part C – Article 25 – Non-Discrimination https://www.rd.go.th/english/855.html#article25 Nationals of a Contracting State shall not be subjected in the other contracting State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith, which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which nationals of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected. This provision shall, notwithstanding the provisions of Article 1, also apply to persons who are not residents of one or both of the Contracting States. Under that Clause above, Australian Citizens are entitled to the same taxation ‘rules and requirements’ as that which is applied to the Citizens of Thailand. Thailand does not tax the Aged Pension of its Citizens that receive their ‘Aged Pension’, and therefore under this Clause they cannot tax the Aged Pensions of Australian Nationals. Part D – DTAs FAQ Answers from TRD https://www.rd.go.th/english/23520.html 5. What happens if the rate of tax stipulated in the Revenue Code is different from that of an agreement? - Apply the rate which is more beneficial to the taxpayer. Under that TRD answer, any tax rate as applicable to Australian Nationals must be applied in the equal beneficial manner by Thailand. Australian Nationals are not taxed on their Aged Pensions payments, whether they are a tax resident or not. Therefore Thailand should apply the rate that is more beneficial to Australians as tax residents of Thailand, which means Aged Pensions are not taxable income (remitted or not). Part E – TRD Definitions for all DTAs with all countries (The Elimination Method) https://www.rd.go.th/english/21973.html C. Elimination of double taxation The focus of a DTA is the elimination of double taxation. Each DTA may prescribe different methods of elimination of double taxation of a person by the resident country: (1) Exemption method The country of residence does not tax the income which according to the DTA is taxed in the source country. The Aust Aged Pension payments are ‘taxable income’ in Australia, so that anyone earning additional income over the Pension does not get the full tax free threshold. The Australian Government applies a zero rate of tax on the Aged Pension payments - it is taxable but they elect not to tax it. Therefore the Australian Pension is ‘taxed’ in the source country, and Thailand should also not tax those Pension payments. Part F – Government Aged Pensions are not income – as per the TRD Definitions of what is Income https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html#:~:text=Taxpayers are classified into “resident,any tax (calendar) year. 2.1 Assessable Income Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows : income from personal services rendered to employers; income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered; income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court; income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings; income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts; income from liberal professions; income from construction and other contracts of work; income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier. As can be clearly shown from the list above, a Government paid pension is not listed as taxable income. I think that is because in Thailand all Govt pension payments are not a taxable income. Therefore, as per the list above (and Article 25) Gover Pensions are not taxable income. Likewise, as per Part B above, where TRD details in a ruling what a 'pension payment' is, under Section 40, Government Pensions are not included in the list of assessable incomes. Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer. (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment. Those are all methods of income from being paid for from employment and a Government Pension payment is not included. As to the last two statements, it is my opinion that a lot of people/experts have 'assumed' Government Pensions are taxable because of the word 'pension' in TRD documents. But as shown above, 'pensions' to the TRD are private pensions and not a Government Pension, and the Age Pension is not 'from employment'. Anyone who is a qualified Resident can receive the Aged Pension - whether they worked or not. Part F – Summary Whether the TRD would accept or not any of those legal arguments above about the Australian Aged Pension not being taxable income, is debatable. Plus there are many clarifications and information updates that TRD are supposed to provide - the issue of what constitutes assessable income is just one of them. The only rule that has changed is that the loophole whereby income such as capital gains and rent would be seasoned for 12 months and then remitted tax free no longer exists. Expats have been for decades remitting their pensions and savings into Thailand - nothing has changed with regards to that money, and Expats have never before been required to pay income taxes on that money. The strict ‘rules’ are not always the issue in Thailand as most Expats know - it is what they decide to enforce, and how they interpret them. There is a rule in the TRD Tax Code that states all foreigners leaving Thailand must first get a tax clearance certificate - what really matters and what the reality is, is that the rule is no longer enforced. So Thailand is moving to a ‘tax regime’ as the TRD GM said, where Expats are now expected to pay their share of income taxes. That probably means that their past non-enforcement of the tax rules for Expats with regards to remitted income no longer applies. However, that does not mean that the rules do not apply under which Thailand can tax the money Expats remit into Thailand, both in terms of what is income and what is not, and what is excluded under their own DTAs. But there are things done in Thailand that are not in compliance with the Rules/Laws by the Thai Authorities. Likewise, there are many ‘interpretations’ of the Thai Rules/Laws by Thais in authority that are not strictly in compliance with those Rules/Laws, and those interpretations change form location to location, and from month to month. The other issue that Expats need to also understand, is that unlike in the West where Govt People are trained, consistent (usually) and managed to comply with the Rules/Laws and as advised though rulings and determinations, Thai people in authority have a lot of arbitrary powers and they can do what they want (within reason). Most Thai ‘officers’ are fair and reasonable, but some are not. Many are well trained and know all the rules/laws, but some have no idea and don’t give a rat’s rear end, and most are somewhere in between those two extremes. The other thing to remember going forward, is that in the West you have many avenues of Appeal - and western Govt staff are well aware they will be hauled through the coals if they cause an Appeal that results in their decision being over-turned. But in Thailand, your rights to appeal as a Foreigner are very limited and over-turning a decision can be extremely difficult (whether correct or not). My strategy is to avoid dealing with the TRD for the next few years, unless absolutely necessary. This will all settle down and the reality of the situation and what Thailand decides to enforce and not, will hopefully by then be clear. If that was to become clear sooner, then that would not be unwelcome either way. When it comes to taxation and the severe penalties possible after several years of accidental (or deliberate) tax evasion, it is far far better to have certainty, rather than the uncertainty that currently exists. It is my opinion that if the TRD starts taking tax money from Australians on the Pension, the Aust Govt will respond and update/amend the DTA to specifically exempt those Pension payments, like most other countries have done. The net says there are 20K Aussies living in Thailand, and if only half of those are on the pension and single, then Thailand will be reaping about $3-4 million from the Australian taxpayer.

Not for me - I have advice 'Not' - ask tax consultants and one might give you that advice too.

"after you submit the tax refund for 2024." Unfortunately you are probably correct. Thailand has a Taxation Department that changes the rules, and then clarifies what they meant and how it will affect people, after people have lodged a tax return. It is like living in a dream and you think 'this cannot be happening'. But at least with a dream you can wake up. Your advice is dead right - dont put yourself in the situation where you have to lodge a tax return - or if you might be there, think of how you can not lodge a tax return. I for one have advice from a tax consultant in writing that because I do not have to pay any income taxes after TEDA, then I do not have to lodge a tax return - along with 30+ million tax residents of Thailand.

No point paying for advice that is uncertain - they do not know because TRD has not confirmed or denied this question and a heap of others. TRD has a lot of unanswered questions at their feet and they are saying nothing. The brief non-sensical answers they gave to fictitious questions early this year, only lead to a series of more questions. TRD vastly under-estimated how complex this matter would be and it appears their strategy right now is to leave it to the Tribunal/Court to decide. Any tax expert or consultant you ask is not going to know the answer for certain - but they will gladly charge you a fee for providing an elusive non-binding vague answer under strict non-liability conditions. Only TRD can provide definitive answers, but unlike is the 1st world where the Tax Dept/Office is a professional organisation and where they provide detailed answers and briefings, Thailand is a 3rd world country when it comes to taxation - hence why in a country of 50+ million workers less than 10-12 million actually lodge a tax return. IMO if it is at all possible, avoid dealing with TRD for a few years or so - they are under huge pressure to get more tax money and Expats are an easy target if they raise their head up. It will all settle down eventually, but I reckon at least a year or two TRD is best avoided if you can. I have advice from one tax expert that states because I have no income taxes to pay (after TEDA) then I do not need to lodge a tax return (under current TRD lodgement rules). TRD might change that lodgement 'rule' and demand all tax resident earning over 60/120K lodge a tax return even if they pay no taxes (like rice farmers who are exempted under TEDA). But then they will be demanding 20-30+ million Thais lodge a tax return for the first time in their lives, and that would be an electoral disaster for the Govt.

Dont bother arguing - they are what is called a cult - unable to process information that goes against their taught narrative. ICE = BAD and worldwide destruction. EV = GOOD and saving the Planet. When you are terrified and running for your life from a huge bear, it is hard to listen to someone saying 'slow down, it is just a loud small cat'.

In effect you are right, but that is not the 'target'. The problem (reality) is that whatever rules are made to get income taxes and other such things, the wealthy have both the smarts (advisers) and the ability (multiple residents, business structures, trusts, family deals, etc.) to get around most of those new rules. There are people who make a very good living giving advice to the wealthy on how to avoid taxes and other payments to Govt, and a big part of that is being across whatever rule changes the numpty politicians and public servants are thinking of implementing. I have a very wealthy mate and one day over lunch he got a call from his adviser. He spoke for a few minutes and when finished, he told me that the Govt was about to change the Superannuation rules to take more money off those with large Super accounts, so his adviser recommended he change his 'wealth portfolio' and move money out of his Super accounts immediately (his and wife's). 3-4 weeks later the change was announced and took effect immediately. That is how it is folks - no use arguing or fighting - you would do the same if you had serious wealth.

That is IMO not the case - and everything lse I say is IMO. Until Thailand taxes all income earned worldwide they can only tax income remitted into Thailand during a year that a person is a tax resident of Thailand (180+ days). Taxing worldwide income is where they want to go and are right now they planning on doing that. However, right now the Law in Thailand is that income earned overseas is only taxable when it is remitted into Thailand in any given calendar year when that person remitting it, is a tax resident. The current rule change means that it is now taxable income in Thailand when a tax resident earns income last year (starting 2024) and then remits it into Thailand the following year (or years later) when they are still a tax resident. The reason they are going to move to a worldwide tax system is because of exactly what you said - some people can and will only remit into Thailand some 'serious' money, in the year/s when they are not a tax resident for that year. That option disappears when all worldwide income earned in the year a person is a tax resident is taxable whenever it is remitted into Thailand and whether that person is a tax resident that year or not. Obviously under those worldwide rules, those who are able to manage their affairs, will ensure that they only earn income in the years they are not a tax resident, and only remit that income into Thailand also in the years when they are not a tax resident.

I believe that is not a rumour but that it more of a fact, and what some would say is a fact, in fact 😉

Update on those shafts. The 7 and 9 wood shafts arrived last week and we played golf Thursday at Singha Park. They are great and they are high and straight. I hit a great shot with the 9 wood - 165 yards to the green - it went way high and landed right next to the pin - unfortunately it rolled just off the back - up and down for par - all good 😄. Thanks for that post about GSA Shafts @Luuk Chaai I had contacted them and the nearest shaft they had to the Ping one was a Fujikara model (maybe the same one on the Pings) - but after fitting the Ping adapter and delivery, they were much more expensive than what the Ping ones cost - plus they might not have been the exact same model. The new Ping store on 3rd road is highly recommended and worth a visit - they have Titleist gear too plus balls and gloves etc etc. https://www.google.com/maps/place/easygolf+Pattaya/@12.9439779,100.8857788,16z/data=!4m11!1m3!2m2!1sgolf!6e1!3m6!1s0x31029579809b3cb5:0xea48b5c4f8747fa8!8m2!3d12.9439778!4d100.8953056!15sCgRnb2xmWgYiBGdvbGaSARRvdXRkb29yX3Nwb3J0c19zdG9yZZoBI0NoWkRTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VOeU9YVXRaR0pSRUFF4AEA!16s%2Fg%2F11lcc_dqr2?hl=en&entry=ttu https://www.facebook.com/PING.easygolf/

There are many wealthy people who are saying that, or have already started to do that (to stay under 180 days in Thailand).

Most of those types are tourists - just like you.