TroubleandGrumpy

What ignorant statements you make - totally misconstrued and off topic - how do you know what I know. Besides the fact that I was not talking to you - your ignorance of the subject matter is astonishing - but not unexpected. Have another beer/bar girl and tomorrow have a long read - assuming you do read. Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth (thereligionofpeace.com)

I would not assume that an LTR income tax exemptions/reductions will remain in place - they can and might change that - just like that. Unfortunately, this and last few Thai Governments (and most Thais) greatly under-value the amount of money that long-term Expats bring into Thailand. Early this year TAT said they were going to include Expats in their figures going forward. What happened? Where are those numbers? IMO what happened is that Expats numbers started declining and less Expats were arriving - they need more for their bonuses, and they quickly realised they could not manipulate the numbers - so they dropped the matter and stopped counting. A few years ago I was emailing with an Expat who was a consultant working for a Thai Govt Dept. They were doing something on calculating how much each retired/married Expat living full-time in Thailand was worth financially to Thailand. Their initial analysis showed that the amount was much bigger than anticipated because unlike Tourists, they buy or rent property long term, buy cars, food, petrol, travel, entertainment, etc etc. The Thais he was working with had no idea Expats spent so much over 5-10 years. There was a 'conference' (they love conferences) and when the Boss was given the prelim figures, he said 'stop' and cancelled the project. The Expat reckoned the reason was that the Boss knew that the Big Bosses in the Junta did not want that information being released and known by the public.

And therein lies the dilemma for many people - 'could' - there is no certainty about all of this situation. And if any person thinks that laying their financial life at the feet of the TRD is a viable thing to do, then I would suggest otherwise. Those with a lot to lose (in taxes) are either leaving, have left, or are thinking/planning on leaving - because they can live in a nearby country that does not tax retired Expats money, and still visit Thailand for <180 days and pay no taxes. Most of us with a little to lose are still here and are considering things going forward - we are waiting to see what clarifications TRD will (if ever) release by the end of this year. And those of us with nothing to lose dont care either way. What I do know is this - I dont trust any Thailand Government Department/Official. Not just because of corruption - but because they are incompetent and also because I have no legal recourse when/if anything goes sideways. If Somchai in the local TRD Office decides that I am 'rich Falang' and must pay huge amount of income taxes (ignores all my deductions etc.), I have very little (none really) legal recourse to challenge that decision. Anyone who thinks otherwise - then I remind you of the Expat who took a Thai Hospital to Court about being charged 2-3 times as much for the same services as a Thai, on the basis that under the Thai Constitution price discrimination is illegal. He actually proved his case, but the Judge ruled it was OK to charge Expats extra because they have more money and it is good for Thailand. This is a 3rd world country - but only when they are in serious trouble will some people realise that. We are preparing and waiting for TRD to release their long promised 'clarifications' and then we will decide what to do. My Thai wife is adamant we are not going to pay income taxes to those corrupt (insert Thai insults) who are currently in Government (for who knows how long).

Thousands of year ?? Muslims have not been living there for that long mate - learn some history. The Muslims took that land off those who had been living their for thousands of years - since before Buddha. But your point is valid - Thailand took over existing Muslim Caliphates - and perhaps it is time to give them back (for a negotiated fee).

Right but Wrong. Talking with Muslim terrorists never has worked anywhere in the world. You either drive them out or they win - there is no 'settlement' possible - they are not fighting for 'normal' reasons such as Ukraine etc (economic, social, power, money, wealth, etc etc) - they are fighting for a Holy Cause'.

I can see this is going to get serious - far too many bombings since new Govt took over. I think the Military/Police will soon be striking back at the Muslim terrorists.

I checked and apparently the train stops at Khon Kaen at 5am and you can get on there. Obviously the 133 makes a lot of stops from Bangkok and the list of stations is on this website - from Nong Khai I assume you catch the bus across the bridge and into Laos. Think I would prefer to drive car and just park on the Thailand side. Rapid No. 133: Bangkok to Nong Khai – Richard Barrow's Thai Train Guide

Yep - he just did not listen about sticking those tide pods up his nose.

Plus a lot of them went to Thailand - hence all the very rich/wealthy 'Thainese' families in Thailand.

It has been 'weekend at Bernie's' for over 2 years mate

He is officially not fit to stand trial - so how the hell is he fit to be POTUS. But then again, he is still a better POTUS than the long-necked Harris would ever be.

I wish I was single and mobile - I would do the same and spend my time between Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and maybe Hong Kong and Singapore. If I am never a tax resident anywhere, then I never have to pay income taxes - perfect. Then when older (75?) go back to Aust and 'fade away' in a country where medical services are basically free.

Yes Indeed. I know one and he has left already - did so before 180 days were up. I reckon any others will also have already gone - after moving any remaining money out of Thailand. Or they are waiting for other reasons and will leave later - never to return.

I certainly hope that they will still be 'not bothered'. TRD wrote letters to 100K Thais reminding them of income taxes - they did not write to Expats. But me thinks they are being pushed to get as much as they can from everyone - including Expats.

Regarding allowances exemptions and other deductions, they are fairly well documented and will probably be allowed for foreigners at the same amounts and under the same terms as Thais. However, there is absolutely no certainty over Expats using the provisions of the DTAs involved to gain additional exemptions, allowances, or tax credits. As one TRD publication has stated, just for them agreeing to tax credits, they recommend Expats get an official tax payment certificate from their home country's Taxation Department - and that is not an easy thing to do - especially when the start/end of the financial years do not line up (see last page). Foreign-sourced income tax-no logo (expattaxthailand.com)

My reply same as Stat's

I see that perhaps I could have written that better - the point was that under the DTA, Thailand (or Australia) is not able to apply income taxes to certain income - meaning that it is exempt from taxation. Mate - the DTA exemptions opens up a whole can of worms that the vast majority of people have no idea about, and certainly not TRD either. Just one example - in Australia the sale of a person's main house is not subject to income taxes in Aust - but in Thailand it is. IMO under the DTA Australians have an exemption from this income/money being taxed by Thailand. Likewise, an inheritance is not taxable in either Thailand or Australia (up to a certain amount), but it is taxable in other countries and their DTAs deal with that. And on and on and on it goes. How will it all pan out for TRD dealing with all those variations and complexities across 61 countries that they have DTAs with?? Who knows. Number one plan for me is to (legally) avoid dealing with TRD for a few years, while they ..... A. screw it all up completely B. Work things out and get it all sorted C. Change everything 2-3 times and then reverse it all back again. My bet is on A and/or C. I reckon there will be a Land Bride, a F1 Race Track, and Thailand will be the Financial Hub of SEAsia - all before they sort out all their tax issues and problems if/when they move to a global tax system - this residential based system is going to take a while to sort out.

I am not sure what you mean - of course Thailand can collect income taxes from tax residents - Australian or otherwise. DTAs provides provisions for conditions, exemptions and allowances for the collection of income taxes between Thailand and Australia. Here is the 'proper' Thai-Aust DTA - I suggest you start reading at the start and dont stop until the finish. australia : article 1-5 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Thailand has far better street food than India and many other countries. However, the reality is that most Thais have 'inbuilt immune systems' and can deal with food that is 'off', far better than most western Expats can deal with it. When we do buy from street vendors, I let the Thai wife take charge and she only buys what she thinks will be OK for me - somehow she just knows. But that is rare for us - we mainly eat at home (why not with a great cook) and when eating out we either go to a Restaurant or a Food Court in one of the local Malls. The Food Courts are great - the food is great and the price is cheap. Restaurants are way less than anything we paid for in Australia and usually much better too. There are many street vendors in Bangkok that have been around a while and are really good - but that is not always the case, especially in the Provinces.

Thanks. And Yes and No regarding those other countries taxing foreigner's income. You have raised a massive issue regarding international taxation that is at the heart of the issues with Thailand applying income taxation to Foreigners' money earned overseas. Thailand like most other countries uses a 'residence based' taxation, but they only apply taxation to the income that is brought into Thailand - a long existing exemption for income not brought into Thailand in the same year was cancelled this year. International taxation - Wikipedia Most other countries have moved to taxing income from overseas brought into their countries in line with CRS etc., but they also tax income made anywhere in the world - but they provide exemptions to retired Expats living in their countries. They all provide those exemptions and allowances to retired Expats through their tax codes - or through separate determinations. Malaysia in the most common example - they tax overseas earnings, but they exempt income already subjected to taxation overseas - that has been the case for many years. Other countries using a resident based tax system and taxing foreign earnings, have managed and dealt with those issues for years. Thailand is not prepared for all the complications involved in taxing income from overseas - especially for foreigners - and that is why they let it go in the past so to speak. Now they have suddenly and out of the blue, both removed the 12 month tax exemption and also stated that all Foreigners must pay PIT income taxes on their foreign earnings brought into Thailand when it was never enforced before. The fact is that was always technically the case - the rule change meant nothing - but they are desperate to increase the tax base and they have just gone ahead and done it, with no idea what that entails and all the problems involved. The best analogy I have heard is that Thailand has been operating as a cheap small town lawyer, and has just decided to go and do work in the Supreme Court. They have no idea what is involved and their systems and processes are immature and backward, and their staff are completely unprepared and do not know what is going on. Just walk into your local TRD Office and you will see that - as posters have done. IMO it is best to avoid TRD while they find out what is in that can of worms and deal with it over the next 2-3 years I reckon. Meanwhile, the advice I have received to not lodge a tax return in my situation is the advice that I will be following. This is Thailand.

There are links provided in that post of mine - perhaps you missed them. Those quotes are from those websites. I would also point out something else - DTAs are not just Double Tax Agreements to avoid double taxation. The full name of the Thailand-Australia Agreement is " an Agreement for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with Respect to Taxes on Income," australia : article 1-5 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) DTAs cover not only provisions to ensure the double application of taxation on incomes, but they also provide for taxation exemptions, reductions and allowances by tax residents and Citizens/Nationals of each country. However, as stated by several members besides myself, TRD Officers are not overall very aware of this fact and most believe DTAs only mean Foreigners can only get tax credits on the income taxes paid already in their home country.

Yes - only the financial organisation in Australia will provide (maybe) a report detailing taxes already paid. If those numpties in TRD think that the Australia Tax Office will issue a tax certificate for a non-resident there living in Thailand - they are numpties. You must be a tax resident of Australia to request a tax certificate from ATO for taxes paid in Australia. Requesting this as a non-resident is not supported and I would say nigh on impossible to get even when using a very expensive tax accountant. Certificate of residency and certification of overseas tax relief - request form for individuals | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au) This illogical thinking by TRD reminds me of those health insurance certificates from non-Thai insurance companies that they demanded be signed by a Director of the overseas Company to Certify that their insurance coverage was in compliance with Thailand Immigration rules regarding retired Expats - a total and utter cluster**** of ignorance from totally ignorant Thai Officials. Putting aside the ignorance - the reality is that Thailand is definitely going to tax the incomes of Foreigners - there will probably be no exceptions or allowances like provided in Malaysia, Indonesia and The Philippines. The release of this 'statement' by TRD clearly states that Thailand will be taxing all foreigner's income from overseas. Besides that being a problem in itself, the far greater problem will be proving to Somchai in the local TRD Office that the money you/I brought into Thailand (as recorded in bank accounts and reported to TRD) was not income and/or it was already taxed and under the relevant DTA cannot be taxed again by Thailand, or can only be taxed at a reduced rate. Just for a start - the arguments over Pensions being taxable income or not, is yet to be settled by us Expats, and I wonder if Somchai in the local TRD Office will view it as income.

Could be a good strategy - many many moons ago an older bloke told me that in a large inefficient/ignorant bureaucracy it is often better to go ahead and then if needed ask for forgiveness, than it is to ask for permission before doing something. I found that to be one of the best pieces of advice I ever received, and in this situation I can see the benefits in taking the approach that 'ignorance is bliss'. Unless of course when one is making big money and deliberately committing tax evasion - but not lodging a return when no taxes payable, and pleading ignorance if ever asked why no return - possibly a very viable strategy. What did that Monty Python skit say "nudge nudge ......"

Name that other 'Tourism Desperate' place where this sort of thing happens every day on social media and where such 'bad advertisement' for potential tourists occurs - the story was in all the 'foreign related' media too. By "this sort of thing" (as noted by others) is bad news/media stories about issues that affect tourists - crime, corruption, accidents, holes in roads, sudden deaths, murders, many arrests, drug issues, elected politicians thrown out, banks supporting illegal Junta in Myanmar, Cannabis uturn and uturn, regular shootings, Thais attacking tourists, men arrested for assaulting police (then released after 4 months), boats sinking, BTS railways falling down, illegal resorts being built/torn down, taxing Expat's money, and on and on it goes .......... These are regular stories on Thai social media - daily - maybe you dont read them in the room - but many potential tourists/expats do.