TroubleandGrumpy

I brought millions in as a gift to the Thai wife and that is not taxable income - and I can do that every year. LTR not needed for that reason for me - but a great reason to get one if you are not married to a Thai. Probably true - but mine is other reasons. I could put 3 million in a Thai bank account but again that is such a waste - no interest/earnings. I did not accumulate money by wasting it so badly. The future taxation implications are a concern maybe not for some but for me they are. There are many benefits of an LTR - but for me not the way to go - yet.

Glad it fits you well - great decision - but not for me.

No I miss-spoke so to speak - as I said to another poster. It must not be in a bank account - it must be in a bank savings account - no terms - no investment - not cash management - etc etc. In Australia savings accounts are basically 'dead money' - you dont leave money there - anyone with 100K USD in a savings account is wasting a large amount of money. And in my case causing pension, super and taxation problems.

OK. I have been exchanging long and complex points with a few posters - I actually started this post and asked for advice and information - I have been looking into the LTR for most of this year. In the end I decided to not hand over to the Thai Govt all my financial records worldwide in the current political and global taxation situations. It is not the 50K.

Liar and a Troll - show me a video and I will apologise. Until then stop the BS and get help.

Good summary mate - nail on the head. Thai officials are just not 'practised' or informed in the vagaries of the financial arrangements in different countries. I am sure there are some countries where removing a large amount of money from a bank savings account and sending it overseas quickly would be very difficult - China, African and Arabian countries come to mind. And being closer to 70 than 60 means for me exactly what you said - higher and higher premiums. I recall one bloke asked for a quote for health insurance many years ago when he was late 70s and only one company replied - almost 400K PA with so many exclusions and pre-existing statements that it was ridiculous.

I agree that some people do it wrong - but that is not me - and I am assuming you are not stating that it is me. We have over 1 Million Baht in Thai bank accounts and can access other funds quickly if needed. No dependents. But a big one is this - after not paying health insurance here for over 10 years we are about 400K in front - that is our money and we still have it. Going forward I calculated a few years ago that if we self-insure until I am 80 we will have saved 1.3 Million baht each (at least). Plus we have personal accident insurance and car accident insurance that covers medical up to 1 million baht per incident. I am glad you are happy you have an LTR - and I am happy to wait - no rush.

You are the second one to say that and it is technically true - perhaps the Officer at BOI misunderstood my question. So to explain this in more detail and for those 'interested' - I have my money invested overseas in a Superannuation investment account that 'pays' on average about 5-6% annual interest (with big taxation offsets). That money is available under the banking rules and regulations of Australia (same people manage them as do the banks) and I can transfer any or all of it to a bank within 2 days and then to Thailand within 1 day (depending on amount and bank). That was unacceptable to BOI as was an investment bank account - it must be in a at-call 'savings account' (no term deposit etc.) and earn 2-3% after fees and costs. Then comes taxation - as a person living overseas I would be taxed on that interest at the top marginal rate of 45% - and that interest would be classed as 'direct' income and affect my Pension payment amount (my Super gives big tax benefits as I said). After that (and a couple of other thorns) the net amount I would get is about a quarter of what I would get in my Super account and leave me open to other 'issues' in Australia. That I have way more than required in my Super account made no difference to BOI - it must be in a 'savings account'. Other countries have different Pension, Taxation, Superannuation and Banking rules and regulations than Australia.

Cheers Johnny - I did the same calculations and it was all good regarding costs versus benefits as you say. But when the mandatory health insurance comes into it (or 3 million in a Thai bank account) it was touch and go. But now the changing political and inevitably taxation situation, has made me pause. No rush - I plan to be here a long time - I assume within a few years the situation will become clear.

All good - saw that posting too - great information and advice.

Cheers mate - I understand all your points - but please let me clarify and respond to your points. Re: health insurance. I have an email from BOI stating that the 3 Million Baht has to be lodged in a Thai savings bank/s. Money invested in Australia or in a savings account there is not acceptable. In comparison to Type-OA visa. I have an O Visa (Marriage) at the moment and will be changing to an O (Retirement Extension) later this year. As you say, right now health insurance is not a mandatory requirement for either of those Visa/Extension. Reference Tax laws. I saw a Youtube video where a senior Exec of TRD stated that they are developing a global based taxation system to replace the current remittance based system. This is mainly due to the cluster*** that was caused when they tried to do that by removing the 12 month tax exempt rule on remitted income under the current tax system. No date was given - but she stated they are 'very busy' pulling everything together - but yes it will take a few years. The announcement they would not tax income remitted now for 2 years (year earned and now also the next year) indicates that is their timeframe is probably 2-3 years. TR visa holders (per Royal Decree) are tax exempt remitted income to Thailand. Yes - under the current taxation system, but will that be the case under a new global taxation system is not absolutely clear or certain - that is my point. And that once they have all my finance records I am not keen to move until that is made clear - one way or the other. Reference the new PM or Thai politics. I always take account of all relevant factors when managing my money. Thailand has been a bit anti-Expat for a while and under Anutin it is likely to be more so, but under a PP Govt they will probably increase taxation (as all progressive/lefty Governments do). Reference 'risking money' on LTR. That is true if/when a new global system is announced, that the taxation exemptions provided to LTR Visa holders under the current taxation system also apply to the new one. If they do then all is good for those like yourself with one, and also for others thinking of applying. every foreign expat needs to consider their financial situation. Absolutely true and agree 100%. its best to get the LTR now, before the door closes - contrary to your assessment. Perhaps and perhaps not. There are good points on both sides of such a debate. I am happy to wait a few years and see how things pan out. Each person must make their own decisions.

I am going to wait and maybe apply for LTR in the future (probably not). There are a few reasons if anyone is interested in knowing why it does not suit me:- They want 'approved' health insurance which for me is a no no - although I have found what one person claimed they use is OK for 25K PA but the coverage is extremely poor and it basically means 50K for the LTR Visa and another 300K for useless insurance (with annual increases). We self insure and have done so for over 10 years - I am not keen paying out 'dead money' for 10 years insurance coverage that might not pay out if something bad happens. Especially given I have car insurance that covers medical expenses in a car accident. I do not want to be put in a position whereby I lose my LTR because I made a medical claim and now my next annual premium post 70 is 200+K. The new incoming Thailand global taxation system is a worry. Under the current LTR Visa, income taxation is exempted on money brought into Thailand under the current Tax Laws. But will that be 'over-written' when the new Tax Laws mean all income earned globally is taxable income, whether remitted into Thailand or not. I just cannot see the Thai Govt being able to give Expats free taxation on money earned overseas, when they are taxing Thais on their money earned overseas. Plus providing details of my income and investments overseas, including taxation returns, is required to get approval for the LTR - will that data be provided to TRD when the new Tax Laws start. The current 'state of play' with regards to who will be the new PM and when there will be an election is also a major concern. It is not just someone like Anutin who could become the PM (anti-Expat reputation) it is also Peoples Party becoming the Government and what they will do. There are 'progressives' I know that would welcome a change away from the 'military-elite' aligned Parties, but I know that with their raft of reforms they have in mind (including a great deal more social welfare) will require a lot more taxes to be collected. If that comes to pass, then rest assured the taxation of wealthy Expats will be an easy target and easily justified to the Media and People. That doing something like that will drive Expats away is not something they will think about much - until after most of us have gone (as per the 180 on taxing all remitted income). I am not saying that will happen - it is a concern that I have - and I do not think for one minute that previous change was reversed because of the impact it had on Expats. When it was first announced in 2022 the BOI claimed 1 million 'customers' within 5 years - they have 6000 (according to media report). They have lowered the bars and made it easier in some regards, but I would not be surprised if the whole program was canned in 2027 (and/or changed) and brought in under the Immigration Police to manage and control going forward. It is not unusual, in fact it is expected, that the Thai Govt keeps making ad-hoc knee-jerk changes to the Immigration rules and regulations without any thinking or care about what the impacts the changes will have for Expats. Both my Wife and I are Aussie Citizens and can return at any time, and therefore we do not have to stick it out and just suck it up - whatever they do. Not 'risking' enough money on an LTR Visa and Health Insurance to buy a brand new top of the range golf clubs, let along the possible income taxation ramifications, seems to me to be the best way forward for myself. I am going to wait and see how things play out over the next few years before re-considering LTR - I might regret that decision but I might not.

I am going to wait and maybe apply for LTR in the future (probably not). There are a few reasons if anyone is interested in knowing why it does not suit me:- They want 'approved' health insurance which for me is a no no - although I have found what one person claimed they use is OK for 25K PA but the coverage is extremely poor and it basically means 50K for the LTR Visa and another 300K for useless insurance (with annual increases). We self insure and have done so for over 10 years - I am not keen paying out 'dead money' for 10 years insurance coverage that might not pay out if something bad happens. Especially given I have car insurance that covers medical expenses in a car accident. I do not want to be put in a position whereby I lose my LTR because I made a medical claim and now my next annual premium post 70 is 200+K. The new incoming Thailand global taxation system is a worry. Under the current LTR Visa, income taxation is exempted on money brought into Thailand under the current Tax Laws. But will that be 'over-written' when the new Tax Laws mean all income earned globally is taxable income, whether remitted into Thailand or not. I just cannot see the Thai Govt being able to give Expats free taxation on money earned overseas, when they are taxing Thais on their money earned overseas. Plus providing details of my income and investments overseas, including taxation returns, is required to get approval for the LTR - will that data be provided to TRD when the new Tax Laws start. The current 'state of play' with regards to who will be the new PM and when there will be an election is also a major concern. It is not just someone like Anutin who could become the PM (anti-Expat reputation) it is also Peoples Party becoming the Government and what they will do. There are 'progressives' I know that would welcome a change away from the 'military-elite' aligned Parties, but I know that with their raft of reforms they have in mind (including a great deal more social welfare) will require a lot more taxes to be collected. If that comes to pass, then rest assured the taxation of wealthy Expats will be an easy target and easily justified to the Media and People. That doing something like that will drive Expats away is not something they will think about much - until after most of us have gone (as per the 180 on taxing all remitted income). I am not saying that will happen - it is a concern that I have - and I do not think for one minute that previous change was reversed because of the impact it had on Expats. When it was first announced in 2022 the BOI claimed 1 million 'customers' within 5 years - they have 6000 (according to media report). They have lowered the bars and made it easier in some regards, but I would not be surprised if the whole program was canned in 2027 (and/or changed) and brought in under the Immigration Police to manage and control going forward. It is not unusual, in fact it is expected, that the Thai Govt keeps making ad-hoc knee-jerk changes to the Immigration rules and regulations without any thinking or care about what the impacts the changes will have for Expats. Both my Wife and I are Aussie Citizens and can return at any time, and therefore we do not have to stick it out and just suck it up - whatever they do. Not 'risking' enough money on an LTR Visa and Health Insurance to buy a brand new top of the range golf clubs, let along the possible income taxation ramifications, seems to me to be the best way forward for myself. I am going to wait and see how things play out over the next few years before re-considering LTR - I might regret that decision but I might not.

I believe the latest TM30 changes made in June 2020 mean it is only required when first arriving in the country, and when leaving and re-entering the country, or when changing your long term living location. However, as you said, some Provincial tin-pot general 'officer' could well decide you need it when leaving and re-entering the Province. To avoid that complication when we check into a hotel anywhere here in Thailand, we both book and check-in the wife's name only. If they want my ID - I let them see/copy my Thai driver's licence - I refuse to provide Passport (just in case they report me). So far over they have all accepted my Thai driving licence for ID - except one place that demanded my Passport. The wife asked to speak to the Boss, saying I refused, and the Boss actually listened (a Thai woman - a Thai male would have been too offended). She then 'gently' told the admin person (newbie?) that a Passport is only needed for a Tourist and not for a long-term Visa married Falang that lives with his Thai wife, and that for ID purposes a driving licence with a photo is OK. It was all smiles and wais after that, and I did the same and apologised for being 'trouble' (that is how to play here - as we all know/learn).

PT are going to try to dissolve Parliament and call an immediate election. But their acting PM apparently does not have the authority to do that according to their Govt's own legal Office. I guess PT know how much damage Anutin can do to them in the short term - and I would not trust him myself to follow up his promise and dissolve Parliament by end of the year. But then again - all he wants is the investigations into how so many of his supporters were elected to the Senate to be stopped and buried forever - 3-4 months should be enough time to make that happen.

Thanks - I will check that out - much appreciated.

Thanks mate - very much appreciated - great advice for me and all who read it. I am going to check out the insurance further - one poster said he pays only 22K a year and is older than me. I have more than enough money in Australia invested - but the BOI stated it must be in a 'savings' account for the last 2 years. They are so seriously annoying and ignorant (those who make up these things) - WTF would any 'wealthy pensioner' place 100K USD equivalent in a savings account for 12 months ???? I am happy to go to Bangkok once a year to report - the tinpots in this Province would be a waste of time and no doubt would not have a clue. Can you confirm that the 1 Year LTR reporting period re-sets when you leave and re-enter - save me scrolling through the confusing and conflicting documents. I am aware the 90 days resets when you leave/renter - same as for my existing Non-O Visa. I think to get the 5 year extension you will have to prove you have maintained the required level of income and finances and insurance and any other requirement for the full 5 years. I saw a 'condition' note somewhere stating that.

Thanks for that - very interesting story - us older guys with 'core' IT experience are rare. The kids (<30) these days have no idea how IT&T actually works - they are like girls were back then about how cars work. All good - these days it is so easy - but they have no understanding how they work and why they often dont. My first computer was also in the early 80s - it was an old IBM mainframe terminal and was what they basically turned into a PC (and then later dumped as a bad idea - bigger mistake than rejecting the Beatles). I had to buy a hard drive from a then very rare computer parts store to load on MS-DOS and it was the size of a half brick and weighed as much, and was 40MB !! That was huuuuuuuuge 😁

Thanks - the only issue I have left now is the health insurance.

DUPLICATED POST

PS - I note your avatar is an Intel C4004 CPU - the first Intel chipset and the start of the modern CPUs. Were you in IT back in the 70s? I started in 1974 when I did a few courses on Fortran and DOS - started worked with large Telco and ended up moving to IT&T Sales in early 80s - retired in 2013.

I am hoping they are being more reasonable these days - rumours say so. Good point about the income tax situation - that and health insurance is why I have been hesitating lodging the application. I figure when they release their new 'global taxation' system, having pulled their heads in about that idiotic move they made in late 2023, then we will know if things are bad or are OK. They will without a doubt screw it up - they cannot even build bridges, tunnels or roads in this country without screwing up, so the chances of a creating a new global taxation system that is good are minimal. Especially given they will refuse to obtain input and advice from any non-Thai global taxation experts - but they will pay millions to a few 'uncles' to provide consultation and implementation reports.

Thanks Jack - I should have said - I am after wealthy pensioner and have been researching for a while now. Been anoying them by asking questions most of this year 🙂

Thank you very much - that is greatly appreciated and exactly what I wanted to know. 3 years is a long time in politics and Thailand so am looking for more up to date information. Like you - I have found they do not like emails at all (common in Thais) so I got around that by just sending another contact message asking question/s - they always answer within a day or so. The health insurance is a serious no-no for me. I refuse to pay 120K+ PA for a policy that meets LTR requirements (Pacific Cross) and all the others are about the same, unless I cut it down to basically nothing and then it is still 50K a year - complete scam. I self-insure and have over 1 million baht in bank accounts in Thailand, but they want 3 million and they want it to have been in there for 2 years. BOI stated I can get around that by having 100K US in bank accounts both in Thailand or globally. The problem with that is that for me that is a large amount of money getting no interest and what little interest is paid is taxed in Australia - unlike in my Superannuation Accounts. I recently sent a question online pointing out that the money I would pay in insurance over 10 years for LTR, is about the same as buying a Thai Elite Visa - and they do not demand I have health insurance. I also pointed out that IF I am a wealthy pensioner as per their income and financial rules, then surely I have enough money to pay any medical bills - as I have been doing for over 10 years already. No answers so far (none expected). I figured the income tax year alignment would be an issue - but that is able to be 'got around' as you say. Could I ask about non-taxable income - will they accept other forms of income as per their rules and do you know what they will and will not accept. I have heard they are getting almost zero new business, so they are being very 'relaxed' - but that does not mean Immigration will approve anything not exactly correct. Could I ask - when you get the annual extension, do you go to their Bangkok Office or do you get it done in the local Province Office. Could you advise what is required - is it quick and easy or do you have to provide the same/more proof of income and insurance documents again?

Good point - my bad. Wealthy Pensioner - I have been doing to research for a while now. I am after tips and advice from anyone that has been through the process, because the online information is very 'generic' and seems very open to interpretation by BOI. Example - there is not much mention of the option to have money 'globally' instead of in Thai banks, instead of the rip off health insurance - but I have it in writing from BOI. Many other such conflicting and confusing rules and regulations - as is the Thai way.