WDSmart

I do repeat what I believe is the "Palestinian narrative." You repeat and presumably believe the Zionist narrative that all that land belongs to the Hebrews. I disagree with that.

I don't "embrace" it, but I do acknowledge it and am convinced they believe it. And, your embracing of the Zionist narrative doesn't make it true either. That's why we disagree.

Morch, No, that's not what I claim. I don't fully embrace either side's narrative. I hope there will be a peaceful settlement to this conflict eventually, but I doubt that will happen. I don't deny Israel's claims. I know they believe them. They are based on their holy book. I also don't deny the Palestinians's claims. They have lived in this territory for thousands of years and are now being asked (forced?) to share it with the Hebrews. Do you deny that? As I said, I hope they can work this out without the present atrocious conflicts, but right now, I don't see any end in site.

I'm sure that is true, and I'm sure a lot of Israelis don't approve of all the actions taken by the IDF. But this will be an "endless conflict" because both sides genuinely believe the land in question is theirs. So until either one side completely conquers the other, or the two sides agree to share the land in some form, either a two-state solution or a one-state solution that guarantees equal rights for all, this conflict will be "endless."

ezzra, I'm sure that's true. But I suspect it's also true of the Palestinians and most other people, for that matter. So, not only the "terrorists" (Hamas) should understand that but also the Zionists (Hebrews who are intent on taking over Palestine). That, in fact, has been the brunt of all my messages so far...

And you just had to edit the post replied to, of course.... Anyway - I was not advocating Israel conquering and holding on to anything. You, on the other hand, are cheer-leading the opposite. That difference. I put "regaining their homeland" in quotes because that is not true of the Israelis. Palestinians are trying to hold onto their homeland. Israelis (Zionists) are trying to conquer someone else's (Palestinians') homeland.

Nonsense. Just watch and see what happens...

I was wrong in saying that. I do not follow all the day-to-day details on the IMFs invasion of Gaza. They have invaded the north and are now moving into the south. They will continue until they control all of Gaza, and I'm sure they'll then remain there.

Yes, both are wrong. ALL MY POSTS have included my agreement that Hamas has committed atrocities, both on Oct 7 and in the past. I am not pro-Hamas. Most of my posts are in response to people "complaining" about Hamas. I'm just trying to remind them that the blame for all this should not be placed only on one side.

Yes, that is something I claim, and you can see it happening by looking at how the maps of "Palestine" and "Israel" have changed over the past 100 years.

And, the Israelis "regaining their homeland" essentially implies the destruction of Palestine. That, in essence, is the root of all this 100+ year conflict.

Yes, I agree. And now, all the talk about Israel knowing about the Oct 7 attack but failing to act leads me to SPECULATE that they grossly underestimated Hama's ability to carry it out and chose to allow it to happen so they would have an excuse to go into Gaza. Whether that is true or not is really not important now. Hamas attacked on Oct 7 and committed many atrocities, which, of course, the Zionists in Israel are now using as justification to completely decimate Gaza. That's my interpretation of what is now happening. This interpretation places blame on BOTH parties and is not intended to give support to either one.

Yes, I agree with everything you said above, especially the last sentence. That also applies to the Zionists in Israel. They want to completely take over what used to be called "Palestine" and either expel all non-Jews or allow them to live in what is now called "Israel" as some lower-class citizens.

I say it was wrong, just as I say the actions the Zionists in Israel are taking in Gaza now. IMO, they are BOTH guilty of war crimes and have been for well over 100 years.

And from the other perspective, the Zionists in Israel (which used to be called Palestine) have been waging war on the Palestinians for well over 100 years, trying to completely take over their country, which they've effectively done with help from the UN. Now, Palestinians have been compartmentalized into two small areas, Gaza and the West Bank, while the Zionists in Isreal continue to take over land and squeeze them even further. None of this justifies the actions Hamas took on 7 Oct, but neither does it justify the actions the Zionists are now taking in Gaza. They are both guilty of atrocities (again), and I'm sure they will continue.

I'm not "antisemitic." (And just FYI - "Semite" includes BOTH Hebrews and Arabs, not just Hebrews. Look up its definition online.) I am anti-Hamas and anti-Zionist. I'm not really either pro-Palestine or pro-Israel, but between those two, I am more sympathetic to the Palestinian point of view, which is to regain control their homeland which is being taken over by Israelis.

Yes, and thanks for expressing your views. Unfortunately, Bkk Brian is not capable of doing that when reacting to posts with which he disagrees. All he apparently is able to do is to revert to calling names.

I agree war crimes were committed by Hama.s and am sure also by Israel in response.

And it's still nonsense. Morch, Keep watching the news and see what happens - unless Israel's allies put enough political pressure on her to stop before that, or Hamas' allies put enough military pressure.

Yes, civilian death and destruction are part of any war. Would you include that as "acceptable" concerning what happened on 7 Oct? I wouldn't. And I don't consider the way the IDF is destroying Gasa as "acceptable" either. What I meant by a "few" IDF soldiers, is that there has not, to my knowledge, been a complete invasion of Gaza (yet) by the IDF. And again I have to point out that I have from the beginning said that atrocities have been committed by BOTH sides. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that the IDF has committed atrocities, or not?

Bkk Brian, If you're still listening (reading), again, it seems like you just don't agree with what I've posted. So, why is that "trolling"? Here is my reasoning (although I did post a more detailed explanation of the terms I use earlier): Civilians: Israelis/Palestinians Militants: Zionists/Hamas - both of these factions have the one goal of gaining/regaining complete control of Israel/Palestine, and will use any means to accomplish that, including atrocities. IMO, the IDF right now is being lead by Zionists who will continue to anhialate Gaza until all Palestinians are driven out.

Bkk Brian, You've called me this before, and before, I asked you what you meant by it. What characteristic of my posts makes you determine I'm a "troll" or I'm "trolling"? To me, it just seems like you assign that to posts with which you disagree

Morch, I wish you would read my posts more carefully before you reply to them. I numbered my replies as: 1) Israel should not use Hama's recent atrocities to justify their actions now. And, 2) Palestinians have suffered similar atrocities during the long war with Israel for their country. I didn't say Hamas should be able to justify its actions now based on what it has suffered in the past anymore than Israel should be able to justify them. My point is they are BOTH guilty of atrocities in the past and currently, and BOTH are using them to justify their responses. The Zionist faction in the IDF are the leaders whose goal is the complete and absolute occupation of Palestine, and the driving out of all non-Jews, or at best tolerating them as some lower-class citizens.

The atrocities that "are being committed" by the IDF are the killing of civilians and the destruction of entire blocks of buildings in Gaza. This has been done by rockets and artillery. There have been few IDF soldiers who have invaded Gaza (to my knowledge). The atrocities which "have been committed" by the IDF (Zionists) over the 100+ year period these two peoples have been at war include all the atrocities cited in my original post, which include murder, torture, and rape.

Concerning Isreal's retaliatory actions to the 07 Oct Hamas attacks and atrocities (which I do deplore), there are, IMO, two things that must be considered: 1. The atrocities Hamas committed on 07 Oct cannot be used to justify the retaliatory atrocities now being committed by the Zionist factions in control of the IDF in Israel against the Palestinian civilians. 2. This attack by Hamas did not come from nowhere. It is just a continuation of a 100+ year-long struggle between the Palestinians and Zionist Israelis for what is now called Israel (but what used to be called Palestine). And during that long period of struggle, the Israeli Zionist forces have committed every type of atrocity (murder, torture, rape, etc.) of Palestinian civilians, as was committed by Hamas on 07 Oct. Israel: 50 Years of Occupation Abuses | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org)