WDSmart

I'll only remark that I've gone over and over and over and over and over and over and over all this with you. Why do you keep objecting to the same things you've objected to before and I have addressed? I know you don't like or accept my explanations, but that's your problem, not mine. Quit this harassment and try to come up with some items we can discuss, not only those you feel you can lecture me on. And I still didn't see any questions that you will later accuse me of not answering.

I never accused Israel of bombing Gaza on 6/10 (Oct 6, 2023?), nor did I know Hamas claimed they did.

I've said in a previous response that the only map that counts is the one labeled US 1947 Plan, and that looks like the one in the Wikipedia link I provided to me. You can disregard all the rest of the maps EXCEPT the one I drew, the proposed two-state solution map. Again, I've already said in a previous response that my proposed two-state map is just a PROPOSAL! The two parties, in conjunction with their allies and the UN, will have to draw up the final map. However they do it, a fair, equitable map must be made up that can accomplish the two most important (IMO) things: - The split should be equitable; - The regions in the two states should be contiguous, but they should be separate from each other. And I don't see how that can be done without some displacement of people from both sides. I differentiate "Zionists" from "Israelis" using the same criteria I differentiate "Hamas" from "Palestinians." Each are a sub-group of the whole who are willing to use extreme force to accomplish their goal, which, in both cases, is the TOTAL control of the land in question. And please don't go on and on about me not explaining anything. Read what I've written above. Also, don't accuse me of not answering any questions. You didn't, and usually don't, ask any.

If that's the case, then these "Peacekeepers" need to have the military power to enforce the agreement. Otherwise, what good are they?

I don't legitimize Hamas' taking and holding hostages any more than I legitimize the IDF's indiscriminate bombing of Gaza. One side is using hostages and leverage, and the other side is using military might. It's a sad, sad situation and needs to be resolved. I've proposed a solution, that's all.

The IDF has already punished the Palestinians of Gaza for the Oct 7 Hamas attack. Now, they are starting to punish Palestinians in the West Bank. When will they think they've punished Hamas and the Palestinians enough? This "in the first place" is the root of most of our disagreements. Oct 7 was not the "first place." I won't list all the terrorist and military attacks from both sides that have gone on over the years for fear of giving a "history lesson." I'll just say Oct 7 was not the first incident, but hopefully, the IDF accused/alledged genocide in Gaza will be the last. But that. IMO, will take an agreement similar to the one I have proposed.

I will address questions directed to me. Please ask them. I will respond, even if my response is, "I do not know." These maps show up online many, many times. The one's I took are from MSNBC. If you think the entire set is not reliable, I remind you, all my proposal is relying on is the one labeled 1947 UN Proposal. Here's a link to Wikipedia, which essentially uses the same map. United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia. I assume you believe Wikipedia is a reliable source. My proposal is just that - a proposal. The most difficult part of my or any proposal will be how to divide the territory up in a way that is both fair and satisfactory to each side. I chose a very simple method of splitting the territory in half so each half represents the area in the 1947 plan. That could be changed to areas better representing the population percentages at this time. The best information I can find online is that Israel has just under 10 million and Palestine (Gaza/West Bank) a little over 5 million. So that could suggest that a dividing of the land of about 60/40 might be in order. Whatever the proportion, I believe the states would have to be separate, but each one would have to be made up of contiguous regions (not being separated). This could be accomplished on the map I made in my proposal by curving the border upward, reducing the area of Palestine while still leaving Palestine with Gaza and the West Bank, but doing this would make a journey from Gaza to the West Bank much longer. And, yes, there will be areas where both Palestinians and Israelis will be uprooted.That will be unacceptable to some on both sides, but I don't see how that can be avoided in an equitable and fair two-state solution. As I said, dividing up the territory will be the hardest issue and will have to be done by Israelis and Palestinians (not Zionists and Hamas) themselves, with the help of their allies and the UN. Thanks for your remarks.

Yes I know...... But do you think that the Zionists/Israelis would continue the ceasefire if all the hostages were released? And, in my proposal, before all the hostages were released, a UN Peacekeeping Force would be in place. I would expect they would make sure both sides lived up to their agreement: Hamas/Palestinians releasing the last of the hostages and Zionists/Israelis upholding the ceasefire. If these two sides trusted each other to fulfill their promises, they wouldn't be in this catastrophe in the first place.

My reasoning behind that I believe as soon as Hamas releases all the hostages, the IDF forces would resume their destruction of Gaza and intensify their militant actions in the West Bank. Without hostages, Hamas/Palestine has no bargaining power.

My reasoning behind that I believe as soon as Hamas releases all the hostages, the IDF forces would resume their destruction of Gaza and intensify their militant actions in the West Bank. Without hostages, Hamas/Palestine has no bargaining power.

The solution I suggested is not "magic." It comes from my understanding of the situation and of people in general. I believe I do have a clear idea of what the sides are, and there are not just two distinct sides. There is a mix of people with different ideas and goals on each side. My proposal would not be agreeable to all, but I've tried to construct it so it would be at least acceptable, even if only reluctantly, to most. The maps are from MSNBC, which I would think you'd accept as a "reliable source." I'm neither ignorant nor trolling. And I suspect the reason you don't care to seriously consider my proposal is you are arrogant and don't have one of your own.

Do the allegations you're making that lead you to think I'm not qualified to propose a settlement apply only to me, or could they also be applied to you? Maybe that is why I've never seen a proposal of how this conflict can "finally" be resolved by you.

Well, I've many times been asked what my proposal for a settlement would be. So, I wrote it up for all to read. http://www.billsmart.com/writing/opinion/Israel_Palestine/Israel_Palestine Resolution v1.htm If you have specific comments, let me know. I'll consider changing, removing, or adding things, and then create a Version 2. Thank you in advance for any suggestions you have.

Here is my three-step proposal to finally end this conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, or at least control it. Israeli/Palestinian Conflict Proposed Resolution of Ceasefire/Hostage Impasse Version 1 – 2024-Feb-02 This Proposed Resolution has three main parts: 1. Ceasefire 2. Hostages 3. Two-State Solution 1. Ceasefire On day one, Israel will begin a six-week ceasefire. This will include: 1) An immediate cessation of military and any other destructive actions in both Gaza and the West Bank; 2) A withdrawal of all troops and operatives from both Gaza and the West Bank. This should be done as soon as possible but completed within three weeks. 3) The establishment of Peacekeeping forces from the UN. These should be composed of military troops, engineers, construction workers, medical staff, etc., from UN member states. These should begin entering Gaza and the West Bank as soon as Israel has withdrawn all its troops as described above, and preferably no later than three weeks after the initial ceasefire begins. 4) The Peacekeeping forces from the UN will then enforce the ceasefire and work to start restoring the infrastructure and attending to the medical needs of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. 5) The Peacekeeping forces will remain in Gaza and the West Bank until the Two-State Solution (see below) has been instituted, and the UN is confident that Israel and Palestine will peacefully abide by its provisions. 2. Hostages On day one, the Palestinians will begin releasing hostages. · They will do this over time, and in this order: 1) Hostages with medical or other pressing needs; 2) The Elderly; 3) Adult single males; 4) Adult single females; 5) Males with children; 6) Females with children; 7) Single children. · The rate of release should mirror the rate of the ceasefire. 1) Hostages 1 through 3 should all be released by the time all Israeli troops have been withdrawn from Gaza and the West Bank; 2) Hostages 4 and 5 should be released after the UN Peacekeeping force is in place; 3) Hostages 6 and 7 should be released after the Two-State Solution is in place. 3. Two-State Solution A Two-State Solution is not my first choice. I wish there could be a One-State Solution where everyone had equal rights and was treated fairly by the government in charge of the state. However, it is now obvious to me that this is impossible, at least right now. Below is my proposed Two-State Solution. The Israeli/Palestinian map has changed greatly over time: (See the link below to view maps) · The Proposed Two-State Solution will be generally based on the original UN Plan of 1947 and is shown below: (See the link below to view the Proposed Solution Map) It divides the land into approximately the same proportion as the 1947 UN Plan but completely separates the two states. The UN Peacekeeping Forces will be responsible for relocating and settling Israelis and Palestinians affected. The UN Peacekeepers will remain onsite until all those needing relocating and settling are accommodated and until the UN is confident that Israel and Palestine will peacefully abide by its provisions. No Rights Reserved. Non-Copyright 2024 - W. D. Smart All parts of this proposal may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without any further permission from the author. The author encourages the wide and free dissemination of this material. Here is the link: Rung & Bill: Israel/Palestine Proposed Resolution (billsmart.com)

No, I agreed with you that the militant parties on both sides (Zionists, not all Israelis) may need to be "wiped out." Yes, "anti-Semites" are people who are against ("anti") "Semites." That includes both Jews and Arabs. You can look up online the definition of "Semites" yourself.

I did agree with your general premise: one group of militants will probably have to be "wiped out." 🥹

It seems to me that Israel is just following the law as set down in their Torah, Leviticus, in the "eye for an eye" verse. That is very sad to me, but then again, I am not Jewish.

I don't "defend" or "justify" Hamas' attack on Oct 7, but I do think Israel's retaliation has gone way too far and needs to stop (ceasefire). Hopefully, some agreement about that which includes the return of the hostages taken on Oct 7 can be worked out.

I do agree with you that it appears that if one or the other, Hamas or Zionists, were "wiped out," that just maybe there could be some movement forward on an agreement for an IDF ceasefire and release of hostages taken on 7 Oct. And I also agree with you that anti-Semites will continue to hate Jews and Arabs in their own country because, after all, that is why they are called "anti-Semites." 😔

Unfortunately, Israel is continuing its attacks on Palestinians, now in the West Bank. I certainly hope there is some agreement reached on the ceasefire/hostage issues very soon! New wave of violence sweeps West Bank as Israel launches series of raids | Palestinian territories | The Guardian

Humans have never been humane. We just kill and destroy everything we can to make us feel comfortable. This isn't just a feature of these forums... 😔

@ezzra, I am willing to agree to this. But, just like the discussions between Hamas and the Zionists, "it takes two to tango." So, I won't agree to this "unconditionally," but I will stop if the other "gentlemen" who engage with me in this stop. @ezzra, On second thought, I will agree to this unconditionally...at least for a while, for the rest of today. Maybe it will calm things down enough to allow more topic-oriented posts and comments.

I know you don't care about my ideas, but my definitions are not endless. They are succinct and have not changed not only as I use them in this Topic, but as I've used them for many, many years. This topic is indeed about Zionist - Zionist activities. That is exactly what South Africa claimed in it's case presented to the ICJ. Isn't that case what this Topic is about?

My idea of what a Zionist wants is NOT a two-state solution. It's a one-state solution, such as Israel has been becoming over the years, mostly by the use of force.

Yes, and that's the way it should be. But, ever since the UN declared the state of Israel, the percentage of non-Jews has been reduced by restrictions, relocation into specific areas, and force.