Mike Lister

I've seen enough of those types of exchanges' over the years to understand what happened. The Pound/Baht rate would likely have been falling, for whatever reason, and some overly anxious expat would have asked, "how low can it go". At that point, everyone would have made their guesses, many will have retold how in 1997 they received 85, yawn, somebody else would have said they'd seen 90! Eventually, somebody would have pointed out that, pre-1997, the Baht was hard pegged to USD at 25, which gave an affective Pound/Baht rate of around 35 and that in time, it will see that level once again. Oops, big mistake, because that would have immediately been interpreted as a forecast that was set in stone, by an expert, who would forever be ridiculed, if in the next twenty years, the rate ever went the other way! Which is the same way it is with weathermen, after it rains, when they said it would be sunny and the day out was spoiled, because they didn't take an umbrella. Such "experts" should keep their opinions to themselves and not try to inform the uninformed, it's much better all round. P.S. The Pound is falling, history confirms it is so....oops, did it again, damn! https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/currency#:~:text=The British Pound is expected,1.27 in 12 months time.

You're letting the word, "credit" get in the way of understanding the reality. As soon as you receive the goods or services and the seller is remunerated, you have made a purchase, the fact that you owe a debt to a credit card company is not part of the picture at all, that's just a timing issue. https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm33520

The Baht typically trades in a range of about 38 to 45 against the Pound. The Baht also trades historically in a range of between 29 and 37 against the Dollar. Nobody with even the vaguest understanding of FOREX would suggest the Baht trading against the Pound in the 20's. But a weak USD can easily be seen to breach 30 and trade in the high 20's. So when you post about the Baht at 46 with predictions of trading in the 20's, you are confusing Pound and USD exchange rates.

At least those "experts" understand the difference between the exchange rate against the Pound and the exchange rate against the Dollar!

Agreed. As said before, AUD is a proxy for RMB or YUAN, which has now weakened even further. Any gain from the AUD/THB pair is coming from the weakness of THB rather than the strength of AUD or RMB, it many ways it's a race to the bottom.

OP - my water charge of 20 baht per CM is for a house, a subsequent poster is charged 40 baht per CM in a condo, hence the difference. 20 Baht is the normal price without any markup.

A poster in a separate debate on tax posted the following link from the UK's HMRC which confirms that credit card spending is assessable to tax, this increases substantially the chances that the same will be true here: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm33520

There is a a related issue that is pending and which is included on the list of known unknows: L) - income that is earned in a year when the taxpayer is tax resident but not remitted until a year when they are not tax resident, is it later tax assessible in Thailand? This needs further research and probably input from the TRD. I'm pretty certain that a person cannot escape tax, simply by remitting funds when they are not tax resident but exactly how that mechanism will work, is unclear.

8 baht for leccy is not unusual for a condo in these part. Owners will pay a Service Charge which includes all the extra's you're being charged for, I'd be suspicious. 20 baht a cubic meter seems correct to me in these parts, we use 7 cm a month for a bill of 140.

The key issue is tax residency in the year the income was earned. If not tax resident during that year, no tax liability exists when the income is finally remitted (subject to the usual criteria regarding tax paid in country where the income arose).

Exactly that, I agree.

Regarding Alan....the tax guide says, in Para 31: INCOME FOR REAL ESTATE PURCHASE 31) The Thai Revenue Department does not consider the purpose of the funds that are imported, only whether the funds are assessable or not. For example, funds imported to buy real estate will be addressed in the same way that imported funds for any purpose will be, there's nothing special about the fact those funds are buying property versus anything else. Regarding Bill: Bill is an idiot, he went to the bank and borrowed money when he already had it in the bank., Bill doesn't deserve a condo and should be taxed under any circumstances.

Thanks....as I suspected.

Perhaps so. The problem however with picking up parts of the picture is exactly that, you need an overview of the whole picture before you can decide which parts to drill down, which is why it's better to read the guide first. For example, the new TRD ruling dated November 2023, reset the clock on foreign earned income whereby anything earned prior to that year, is free of Thai tax.

Yes we are. And whilst it's interesting to debate and understand, this is not the thread to do it in so perhaps a different time and place.

If I live year round in Thailand and charge all my expenses to my UK credit card which gets paid off from an untaxed income stream that is paid into my UK bank, is that borrowed money!

I think you should read the document below and start getting your tax related information from more reliable and complete sources.

You may call that condo purchase FDI, the Central Bank wouldn't, at least not in the strictest sense of the term. FDI arrives typically via the BOI on a far greater scale. Once again, the TRD doesn't care about "your" financial arrangements outside of its borders. You could have stolen the money for all they care, all they want to know is whether it's assessable or not. You say it's not your money and is only debt? Who cares, that's your problem not ours we just want to know if it's debt that is paid off using current untaxed income or not.

There isn't anything in there that wasn't already widely known and understood but it's good the information is propagated so that as many people as possible get the message. But there are one or two inaccuracies: 1) there is a PAYE equivalent in Thailand, all large employers who collect SSc from employees, also calculate and collect tax. 2) the reason the government is doing this is to increase the tax net, which is one of the smallest in Asia, it is not being done to finance populist policies..

And one more: CREDIT CARD SPENDING USING FOREIGN CARDS A series of interesting and useful debates have tried to determine if overseas credit card spending in Thailand by Thai tax residents, constitutes assessable income but they have been unable to decisively conclude. It is far from certain that such spending is not assessable and several factors lead us to believe it may be. The salient points in the debate include: A) It is irrelevant that the spending is done on credit, the taxable event occurs in Thailand when the buyer receives the goods or services they purchased and the seller is remunerated. B) The TRD is very unlikely to be interested in minor or small scale purchases made using foreign credit cards but is likely to be attracted by large expenses that are repeated every month. C) The core issue is likely to be the source of the funds used in the home country to settle the credit card bill and whether those funds are exempt or assessable. D) The TRD doesn’t care about credit agreements or debt in the card holders home country, only about the events that took place in Thailand and the funds used to facilitate them. E) Debt forgiveness may well be construed as receiving assessable income. As more becomes clear on this point, we will update the guide accordingly.

I thought it might be helpful to construct a form of words around this subject, for inclusion in the Simple Tax Guide so I have drafted the following. Please let me know is there are other key points, about which readers should be aware. CREDIT CARD SPENDING USING FOREIGN CARDS A series of interesting and useful debates have tried to determine if overseas credit card spending in Thailand by Thai tax residents, constitutes assessable income but they have been unable to decisively conclude. It is far from certain that such spending is not assessable and several factors lead us to believe it may be. The salient points in the debate include: A) It is irrelevant that the spending is done on credit, the taxable event occurs in Thailand when the buyer receives the goods or services they purchased and the seller is remunerated. B) The TRD is very unlikely to be interested in minor or small scale purchases made using foreign credit cards but is likely to be attracted by large expenses that are repeated every month. C) The core issue is likely to be the source of the funds used in the home country to settle the credit card bill and whether those funds are exempt or assessable. D) The TRD doesn’t care about credit agreements or debt in the card holders home country, only about the events that took place in Thailand and the funds used to facilitate them. E) Debt forgiveness may well be construed as receiving assessable income. As more becomes clear on this point, we will update the guide accordingly.

Filmed in Malibu California, about the Korean war.

Fiat makes cars, not currency, silly boy!

I have added a new Para 69 to the document which reads as follows: I will arrange for the document to be updated in a few weeks time. CERTIFICATE OF TAX RESIDENCY or TAX PAID 69) The certificate of fiscal residence is called R.O. 22 and can be obtained at District Revenue Offices. It is not necessary to file a tax declaration in order to obtain an R.O. 22, the certification has no correlation to tax payments and simply states that you have been here for 180 or more and so you are considered a tax resident. The request form is here: RO-22.pdf. A second document is the R.O. 21, which confirms declared income and tax paid during the year. Both forms are located here: RO 22 and RO 21 RO21.pdf

OK so we are on the same page, great. There are probably several reasons why I might be wrong but the fact that it's a credit card wont be one of them. And of course, in the absence of confirmation by the TRD, all of this is hypothetical debate based on probabilities but underpinned by pretty solid reasoning and fact. The important point for most people is to remove the automatic assumption that foreign CC usage here leaves them free and clear because it may very well not.