Georgealbert

Check “The Secret Firefighter UK” on X (formally twitter, if you don’t know). Their posts are very much raising the awareness and dangers of lithium batteries and EVs. But check what he sys about the Luton car park fire, the reason for this thread. Hope the links is not breaking the rules, if it is please delete. https://x.com/thesecretff999/status/1712367730345566228?s=68&t=Gb4KIKw5vbi2R87-_LDePA

Here is the contact details for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue. Maybe email them and ask why the chief is lying. Incident details are not released until the final investigation and report are completed. Standard in every incident. EVs and batteries are always under research to improve both reliability and safety, have posted some research earlier. In the thread. The real learning point from the Luton, Liverpool and Cork car park fires, is the basic fire safety measures required under current regulations. Sprinklers would have slowed or stopped fire spread to allow successful fire service intervention. Also contrary to general belief sprinklers are designed for fire containment, if it extinguishes the fire that is a bonus. Given the deregulation policy of the present and past UK governments, I am not holding my breath. https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/contact-us

English fire services attended 18914 road vehicles fires in 2022. So you cherry pick one incident to try to highlight! https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022

The first comment by the Chief Officer was made during the incident. The press release was made after the incident. Have you given a interview during an emergency incident? He will be following service guidelines and keeping any full details until later. The claim of half truths is defamation of Andrew Hopkinson, the Chief Officer, there is no big conspiracy. i give up trying to post facts, too many people posting on social media, and only following their own agendas. i am sorry the facts don’t meet you hopes to blame EVs.

Here is a similar incident from Cork 2019. Opel Zafira B https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-shopping-centre-reopens-after-30m-fire-damage-1.4406760 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/up-to-60-cars-scorched-in-accidental-cork-car-park-blaze-1.4004015 Pictures of start of the fire ( note the lack of thick black smoke, because it is not the fuel burning at this stage) and picture of the damage.

If anyone is really interested in facts, here are some links to research, procedures, and information about some of the issues. These are from validated., professional and reliable sources. This shows that continued assessment, research and guidelines are ongoing for EVs, just like every other type of fire and accident risk. There is no big conspiracy to hid the truth. https://irescue.jp/PDF/EVFG-15-PDF.pdf https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-topic/Alternative-Fuel-Vehicle-Safety-Training/Emergency-Response-Guides https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1168956/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf https://nfcc.org.uk/our-services/position-statements/operations-committee/emergency-responders-guide-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles/ http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1744882/FULLTEXT01.pdf

I just think some people can never believe facts.

Sorry, here is the press release from Bedfordshire fire service. https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/london-luton-airport-car-park-fire There is no big conspiracy going on.

Sorry, you both fail to understand, it is not the diesel burning at the start of the fire started under the bonnet. if you have attended any car fires you would understand that many times the fuel tank remain unaffected. English car fire statistics, facts, not made up from youtube. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1173188/fire-statistics-data-tables-fire0302-270723.xlsx You show your lack of knowledge when posting. Both reported for posting false information.

Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue press release. https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/london-luton-airport-car-park-fire

Thanks. Lithium batteries have posed some new risks, same as when LPG/NGV vehicles first appeared. Firefighting techniques have also developed and been adapted. The Luton car park fire final report, I am sure, will find many factors that lead to the reason why this fire grew and did such damage That report will be based on real facts, not on any preconceived agenda. Hopefully any lessons learnt will be acted on, but I doubt it. Safety requires extra costs, and profit is normally the first priority.

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

It is good to have a sensible, open debate, with someone who can express serious views. Just a shame we all have to suffer some of the others posters.

Very good question. The images and videos I have been able to find online, shows a fairly standard under the bonnet fire. There are a number of reasons that could cause such as fire, electrical, combustibles left under the bonnet, brake fluid leak. I do not believe it was ignition of the diesel that started the fire. Range Rover also has a history of vehicle recalls, as many manufacturers do. i would hope the investigators have access to better, clearer CCTV of the car entering the car park to the fire development. They will also have witness statements from the car owners and people in the area at the time. Also observations from the first attending fire crews. Yes diesel will produce a lot of black smoke, which is because of incomplete combustion. EV thermal runaway would often display a jet of flame. So without the full information, I would never attempt to make what would be a guess as to why this fire developed this way. But details from the Liverpool car park fire, I posted earlier, seems to offer many similarities. Like most major fires and accidents, it is a series of events that lead to the final outcome. Such as, what caused the car fire, the space it parked in, proximity of other cars, weather and wind condition, car park construction and fire resistance, height of car park, lack of sprinklers, english building regulations requirements, time to first fire intervention, availability of fire extinguishers, did anyone attempt to use an extinguisher or just video it, time of attendance of first fire crew, access to the car on fire, did the airport fire crew attend, Bedfordshire Fire Service operational procedures. So without full information it would be unprofessional to offer a guess of what went wrong, i will reserve final judgement to the full fire report is issued.

Really? What is your knowledge and experience?

You obviously do not know any firefighters then. All fire services have operational procedures, incident command and safety equipment to deal with incidents. EV fires offer some difficulties, not are nothing compared to the risks posed by many other hazards,

Sorry, but rather pointless post and offers zero into the thread.

5555, was a long time ago i got dirt putting a fire out, officers just tell others what to do. Fatal fire investigations always took more time and effort than the fire itself. It was a enjoyable career, hard work at times, would never make you rich but allows a comfortable retirement. Sometimes i think if i could do it again, next time I would just stay sat on a fire engine, forget promotion, as that just means far less stress and responsibility.

Yes agree, maybe a new term in general use. When I did my first courses at the UK Fire Service College, Moreton in Marsh, 80s, it was the term used for fire science.

No tetrahedron is not a big difference, just the basics. https://www.firesafe.org.uk/information-about-the-fire-triangletetrahedron-and-combustion/#:~:text=The fire triangle was changed,and a chemical chain reaction.

Sorry never keep a count. I tried to work out once, that i have been to over 10000 emergency incidents over my career. Minor fires, like cars, whatever fuel, are not something you remember. I have investigated 3 property fires which may have been caused by EVs, but each case was caused by other reasons. And before some of the people on this thread try to claim, no i was not told to find others causes. I deal with facts and not conspiracy theories. Now cheap electric scooters, are a different problem and issue, but that would be moving away from the original post of car park fire.

EV1 was 1996, lithium batteries have been use since the 1990s. NFCC (National Fire Chief. Council) have multi working group on all new risks and technologies, things are discussed with the motor industry. Guidelines, procedures and operational techniques are released to all fire services, through either SOPs, manuals or bulletins. So I probably have more knowledge and experience than most on the thread.

Interesting claim, can you supply a link to the research that shows this. The fire triangle/tetrahedron is a basic understanding of a fire and how to extinguish it. Below is a research paper that shows how the three traditional boundaries apply in a lithium battery fire. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8102908/#:~:text=The main conditions for ignition,O2%2C ignition and T ignition.

What was burning in this fire was the whole cars, fittings, seating, fuel, oil, brake fluid, etc. and some of the fittings, lighting, wall claddings, in the car park. Your posts continue to show you have no knowledge of how a fire develops. You have no understanding of heat development, smoke/fire gases, floshover, smoke explosions, defensive and offensive fire fighting techniques, passive and active fire safety/protection measure and incident command. You don’t want facts, because you seem to think your knowledge is superior. 5555 Do real research, not find a few video that fit your narrow view.

All fires produce hazardous gases, hence why fire service wear SCBA. Below is what you expect in smoke. Smoke and fire gases kill most people in fires.