Hawaiian

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Can you share with us exactly what is the added value in the war is fighting now? In WW2 it was about liberating Europeans from Nazism. The Korean War was and the UKraine war is about resisting invasion from foes ruled by despots. Even in other wars where the justifications were either based on delusion or deception or some mixture of both, at least there was some sort of appeal to idealism. What is adding value to Israel's campaign against Hamas? Is Israel promising to help rebuild Gaza? To pursue policies different from those it has pursued in the past?  As far as I can tell, it's about eliminating Hamas. It can be argued that Israel's plan to exterminate Hamas may be necessary, and that taking vengeance is only incidental (unconvincing), but what higher principle is moving Israelis to look " into death’s eyes without blinking."

As for conduct in war. Well, you're setting a very low bar in comparing Israel to Hamas.. Who knows what Israeli troops are up to considering that reporters are mostly banned? A few reports, like the beating of that Gazan poet get some play, but it's mostly darkness.  

I am sure you are aware of the WWII Pacific Theater where our gallant troops fought off Japanese imperialism.  The cruelty of the Imperial Army was no less then that of the Nazi war machine.

Hawaii is very proud of the bravery of the famed 442nd Infantry Regiment, the most decorated in U.S. history.  Many of these GIs were from my home town whom I got to know later in life.  Very humble guys.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

This tragic incident is carried widely in the mainstream press, the fact that you are, acknowledging, following and posting links to an obscure unverified Pro Hamas terrorist twitter account with graphic videos of the incident says it all from the both of you Hamas supporters.

 

Both boys were attempting to throw incendiary devices at retreating IDF troops and the teenage boy had his coffin draped in the Hamas flag. 

 

However I am sure you are both more interested in the accounts main purpose of celebrating Hamas martyrs and terrorist propaganda.

 

 

 

Some posters are hell bent on using unverified and/or doctored information to prove their point.  Sooner or later their lies catch up to them.  A fool is someone who doesn't know they are a fool. 

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually,  the body of a hostage was found. She had been shot. I'm on my mobile now so I won't provide a link until later. But it was prominently featured in the news.

I saw the same thing.  There is a lot more evidence of Hamas' savagery to come.  This is why I think more support is growing for Israels campaign against Hamas.

8 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Remember George Bush's statement after 9/11, "You are either  with us or against us"?  Now Benjamin Netanyahu finds himself in a similar situation.

I don't think it wise to publicly announce your war plans in detail.

Never let the enemy know what your strategy is.  Same thing applies to an exit plan.

As more and more of Hamas's atrocities and bold face lies are exposed, more Israelis will support Netanyahu.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu has made some political blunders in the past as you have mentioned.  However, I think he is the right person for the job at hand of exterminating or at least crippling Hamas.  What comes next is anyone's guess.

I failed to mentioned the importance of American support is for a successful and sustained campaign.  The sentiment of the U.S. Congress seems to favor to continue backing Netanyahu, especially after the condemnation of a few Hamas supporting representatives, like Rashida Tlaib.

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Netanyahu says a whole lot of things. Back when suited his campaign slogan was 'dismantle Hamas rule', some years later he let Qatar bring suitcases full of money to the Gaza Strip. Bottom line, it's not up to him. Can't see the USA supporting the war indefinably, without clearly defined achievable goals, and an exit plan. Similarly, Centrist emergency coalition partners will not be supportive of ongoing operations if it implies a rift with the USA or things dragging on just to suit Netanyahu's political survival.

 

The problem now is that no one got a workable plan to solve things. And not too many reliable parties to deal with even if this was on.

Remember George Bush's statement after 9/11, "You are either  with us or against us"?  Now Benjamin Netanyahu finds himself in a similar situation.

I don't think it wise to publicly announce your war plans in detail.

Never let the enemy know what your strategy is.  Same thing applies to an exit plan.

As more and more of Hamas's atrocities and bold face lies are exposed, more Israelis will support Netanyahu.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu has made some political blunders in the past as you have mentioned.  However, I think he is the right person for the job at hand of exterminating or at least crippling Hamas.  What comes next is anyone's guess.

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Frankly, UNRWA just needs to go a way. They have been an impediment in Gaza and indeed all Palestinian areas. The material they teach children is shocking- no wonder they support Hamas 75%. Not to mention that 80 years as refugees is enough. Time for a programme of de-Hamasification, followed by aid to build up Gaza that does not get stolen by terrorists or fat cat supporters living in luxury overseas.

Many in the EU and elsewhere are fed up with how UNRWA operates.  As its leading contributor, Germany is leading the trend to halt funding this organization that has been accused of promoting an "excitement of hatred." Meanwhile in the U.S. violence associated with pro-Palestinian demonstrations will curb any more support to UNRWA.  And the exposure of how Hamas has siphoned off resources certainly doesn't help.  There may not be a flip flop like one poster suggested.  Time will tell.

is also a deterrent to continue supporting

4 hours ago, Morch said:

The main problem is the civilian population.

 

The fighting in the north part of Gaza (which isn't over yet, by the way) was conducted with much of the population already evacuated or in the process of doing so. The same could not be repeated down south -

 

(a) Civilians could not move 'back' to the north, as there's much damage to infrastructure, services and homes. Also, this would place them at the back

      of the IDF, which (considering sympathies and Hamas infiltration) militarily might not be a great idea.

 

(b) Egypt would not agree civilians being moved to its own territory, across the border. The USA and the global community will likewise not support this.

      In PR terms it would be a disaster, echoing the Palestinian 1948 Nakba.

 

So if fighting was to be commenced with civilians in place, it would imply way less air support for IDF troops, more opportunists for Hamas to use the population as human shields. Civilian casualty figures may not necessarily increase, but as it will be more up and personal, the effect on public opinion would be different.

 

I'm not sure how this could be tackled, or if plans in place would provide a good solution. Leaving things as they are is not a great option either, though.

Early on, Netanyahu said the war will be "long and difficult."  His statement came as the ground assault of Gaza (second stage) began.  It has been over 6 weeks since this assessment was made.  And it looks like the hostilities will continue a lot longer.

Today UNWRA's largest contributor, Germany, announced it will be freezing it contributions to the agency.  Switzerland is also taking similar measures.  Word is that other EU nations are thinking of also cutting back funding or completely halt aid.

It is rather doubtful that the U.S., or anyone else for that matter, will make up the shortfall.  This is not good news for Hamas and the Palestinians who rely on this aid to survive. 

It may also mean that mass starvation will possibly bring this conflict closer to an end.  Not a pleasant thought, but a real possibility.

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You've made 45 posts in this thread . 25 post per page , as you're the only person you don't have on ignore, this thread must be just full of your posts only 

Tedious and boring.............

Just now, BarraMarra said:

Why doesn't every member simply ignore Haw Haw your just feeding him. He will never join in with the current thread his agenda is to wind up members so they break forum rules and the thread gets locked like the last one.

Count me in.

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

Who am I?  I am an 84 year old retired military veteran living in peaceful Hawaii.  I was born here and so were my parents.  I grew up in a multicultural society and learned to work and get along with everyone, no matter their ethnicity or religious beliefs.

My Thai girlfriend and I have visited Thailand once or twice a year for the past 30 years.  I find it difficult to understand how you are so conflicted with your beliefs.  None of my Thai friends think like you do.  Neither does any of my girl's family members.  Have a good day.

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

I never accused you of what you are claiming.  Stop the BS.  I said it before and I will say it again, this conflict (for your sake, WAR) began when Hamas first attacked on October 7, 2023)  Therefore, I would say they committed war crimes by their savage acts. If there is no war why is Hamas firing rockets?

If there is no war, why the cease fire? 

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   He previously claimed that the war began in 1948 and that the Hamas invasion of Israel wasn't the cause of the war , that claim was made to suggest that Hamas didn't cause this war .

   Now that's a bit inconvenient in regards to war crimes by Hamas , he now says that the war began a few days after the attack and when all the hostages had already been taken .

   Its just one excuse after the other with no coherence .

  The war began on October 7 th when Hamas crossed the border and the first shots were fired

That is exactly what I said in another post, "albeit an undeclared war."

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What are you on about, of course I don't condone this. Not sure why you are trolling me. 

If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

7 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

What the hell has that got to with anything, it's not a case of we'll kill 1,400 Gazans then call it quits, this is not a revenge attack, it is an attempt to stop further atrocities being committed by these brainwashed inhuman creatures purporting to be human beings. 

You have to excuse him.  He does not think logically.

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It is not me, it is the definition of the term. 

You seem to think that by me saying Hamas didn't commit a war crime on Oct 7 that I condone it, jeez. 

War crimes

According to the UN, a war crime is an illegal action or set of actions that violate international humanitarian law, which is designed to protect civilians.

War crimes are always carried out intentionally and always take place in times of international or non-international armed conflict.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231021-experts-say-hamas-and-israel-are-breaking-international-law-but-what-does-that-mean

If you condemn this savagery, then say so instead of skirting the issue.  This is what trolls do.

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Why is it not a war crime ?

Taking hostages is a war crime 

Hamas took hostages .

Why isn't that a war crime ?

Because Neeranam claims there was no war when the hostage taking took place.  Even if not classified as a war crime it still does not lessen seriousness of the offenses, especially because of the sickening way in which the hostages were taken.

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  That is quite an attenuation to say Hamas broke some rules .

Mass murder of innocent civilians , killing babies , murder and rape, attempted genocide and war crimes is breaking quite a lot of rules , its quite an understatement to just label those as just "broke the rules"

He is using an Iranian rule book authored by the mullahs.

8 hours ago, Morch said:

I purge every new device I get from anything that remotely smells of McAfee. Each mail/promotion sender blacklisted and where possible reported. It's not like there's a shortage of similar software and service providers, no need to go with the most annoying one (never mind the potential damage).

McAfee is rubbish.  They are also sneaky and not to be trusted.

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I didn't know one had to be an expert to post about Israel. 

I am on this thread to learn, and have learned a lot about Israel, especially the discrimination the show to non-jews. 

You also don't have to be an expert to know that hostage taking of civilians is still a war crime even if you treat your captives well and they wave good bye when they are released.

2 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

For those struggling to see the difference between hostages and terrorists this lady puts it very succinctly (you know who you are)!

 

 

Morality and justice are "foreign" words for the strugglers you referred to.