norrona

I have checked, again, what was written and still cannot find anyone calling you racist nor 'jumping' on you for singling any race out in hatred. Maybe it is you who should read what is written!

If your family worked in social housing they should know the rules regarding the availability of social housing to immigrant or part immigrant families; i.e. that social housing is on the list of proscribed public funds.

I must admit my knowledge of the rules only extends back about 10 years, so maybe at the time your family worked in social housing the rules were different. But we are talking about the situation now, are we not?

look you have been a real asset to this forum and now you are letting yourself down a bit by making a mountain out of it all.....just to be clear, I was referring to how it has come to this with my observation and the flood of immigrants from years ago...now it is not people from that country so much but eastern europe...if you lived in London and specific parts of it you would see it with your own eyes...we are full to the brim and can't take much more so for now the rules they have put in place are what they deem correct to stem the flow, sadly it's all a bit too late....my family worked in that industry late 80's onwards.

No more from me....crack on with the current topic cheers

The UK government believes a couple can live on £5852.60 p.a. plus rent; otherwise they would increase the income support level.

No one, as far as I am aware, wants immigrants coming into the UK and being a burden upon the state; which they can't as they can't claim public funds until they have ILR (except contribution related benefits that they qualify for through their NICs)!

How many more times have people got to be told that before they believe it?

Just because Thailand does it as well doesn't make it right.

Norrona, who called you racist?

Wasn't me, all I accused you of was falling for right wing propaganda.

Immigrants do not come into the UK and 'milk the system' simply because they can't.

Despite what the anti immigrant lobby say.

I didn't say you called me it did I, if we are going to get literal then please check whats actually been written! I just pointed out a major reason as to why we have come to this situation in my opinion....because you didn't agree with me or like it I was jumped upon as if I was singling that race out in hatred....I don't blame them I blame the people that have allowed this....but, Pakistani immigrants who came and were yes invited to the UK to work were and have been the main the ones who then sent for their families long before all this English test business, that is a fact and yes they milked it big time with lots of their elders who received benefits and health care... I know this because my family worked within the social housing in the east end of London.....

If the above is that out of order then please ban me from Thai Visa

Not wanting to go off topic also I wish people would not class others as racist or the like because they made a observation & remarked on it!

Not wanting to go off topic also I wish people would not class others as racist or the like because they made a observation & remarked on it!

7by7 always cites the 'no recourse to public funds' argument but does not appreciate the huge sums being spent on translators in the UK.

Anyone has the right to demand a translator and solicitors will always insist on using one whatever your ability to speak English.

I know we have wandered away from the topic a bit; but really!

If this were a topic about requiring immigrants to speak English (or Welsh or Scottish Gaelic), a measure I'm in favour of, then your comment might be relevant; but it isn't.

This topic is about the new financial requirement and the recent high court ruling.

A ruling which, if I may say so, agrees more with my previously posted viewpoint and that of the all party review than with yours.

You really are clutching at straws now, aren't you.

norrona, you not only used that race as the main example of immigrants requiring translators, you also accused them of milking the system.

Are you now withdrawing that particular remark?

As a point of historical interest, the first, and major, wave of immigration from the Indian sub continent occurred because people from that part of the world were invited, yes invited, to come to the UK to fill labour shortages.

Just like immigration from the West Indies.

They came because we asked them to!

If you refer to a Pakistani person as Indian then good luck to you....and vice versa!

I stand by what I wrote and do not read the Daily Mail or am I a racist.

norrona,

Although a couple where one was British and the other an immigrant can, indeed must, claim tax credits as a couple, they could not be used as a source of funds under the old system for the initial visa.

You say you don't want to fall for right wing propaganda, but your comments about a certain ethnicity milking the system is doing just that!

You also seem to be saying that it was right for your wife to have an appointed translator at her appeal in case there were technical points she couldn't understand but wrong for other's to do the same!

I cannot comment on the circumstances any appellant who was sick as I do not know them; but appellants do not have to appear at the appeal; indeed many can't as they are still outside the UK and it is impossible to obtain a visa just in order to attend an immigration appeal.

I am glad you brought that up...I didn't say it was or wasn't right! I was just pointing out how much money is made/spent/wasted on this whole thing and mostly by people in my eyes don't deserve it.....

I got my opinion from actually appearing at the tribunals courts and as this is still a free country...not literally I will always have an opinion, no way was I aiming my comments at one race of people I was merely saying if you could converse in Urdu then you'd have made a lot of money over the years..I used that race as they are a main example of immigrant that have come here alone, set up home and then sent for the relatives, make of that what you will but they have led the whole system a merry dance....good and bad in everyone, don't make me out to be prejudice please....I experienced that when I lived and worked in Thailand and it wasn't very nice being on the receiving end.

To follow up on my post I will also share my personal experience from approx 2 years ago when we had some problems with my wifes FLR visa and it got rejected and we had to appeal, we were given a date to appear in front of the judge at Tribunals House in London.....

When we checked our names in with the court clerk there were lots of people playing the game with the 'no English' when they were being asked questions then looking round for the appointed translator....how do I know they were appointed? because we had our own Thai translator just in case my wife was asked questions in their jargon and didn't understand...I was told I couldn't translate as I could be dictating the answers, our translator was 'free of charge' and supplied by the courts.

My barrister that day(paid for by me)actually said it makes a change for him to be there in a 'private' job, when I questioned him on it he was a bit embarrassed and said he normally gets paid for by the state 'legal aid'

It was 2 years ago but I distinctly remember 99% of that place and the people inside it, one lady was there on behalf of her husband who was meant to appear that day but was at home sick...no doctors note etc, there were a few like that from memory....

Norrona,

As has been said many, many times:

• Under the old rules sponsors and applicants had to prove they could be supported and accommodated without recourse to public funds.
• Under both the old and these new rules, applicants cannot claim public funds (with a couple of exceptions) until they have ILR.
• So under both sets of rules, family migrants did and do not represent a drain on the public purse!

Don't fall for the government's and right wing press's propaganda.

I appreciate the no re-course to public funds, even experienced it myself when my wife first came here but..... under the old rules and labour there are lots of people who got here and cannot afford to be here without the help of working tax credits etc or top ups on their wages, my problem is those who suffer are like myself and the others who are genuinely married and doing things by the book....all because certain ethnicity's have milked the system and made a mockery out of it over the last 30 or so years, if you spoke and wrote Urdu for the last 20 years you would have been kept in work by the civil service and probably be commanding a top salary!

So my problem is not what they are doing now in order to stem the flow but why it has been allowed and the people who have been milking it!

Falling for the right wing propaganda I will not do..... I live here and my eyes are wide open as to how it got to such a mess!

Next stop for my wife and I is Croydon on Wednesday for ILR..... rant over

One key point that has been missed is that someone earning around £14k before tax (a sum 7by7 has suggested as being fair) would be hard pushed to fund a holiday or trip to Thailand to meet a future spouse plus the follow up trips to develop the relationship and marry etc.

As we all know there is also the dowry/sinsod plus all the other extras.

These would be key points exploited by a government barrister in any appeal.

there may have been for you but not for everyone? definitely not me!

my personal opinion on qualifying is this is what is called for and in order to keep out even more drains on the purse of the U.K...I am all for it and really believe if you can't afford to pay for yourself and your wife and her/your kids then don't bring them here!

The distinction that someone posted above defining the difference between a Realtor and a real estate agent, at least in the U.S., is correct.

Realtors are licensed and have to pass exams and certification, etc... In the U.S. as I recall, to have a realty firm, there has to be at least one Realtor with a license, and then the non licensed agents can work under the Realtor.

But in Thailand, I've never heard or seen of anything about licensing of real estate people, realtors or otherwise.

AFAIK, a monkey could be a real estate agent in Thailand, as long as he/she is a Thai citizen.

Very fitting summary

Also be mindful, that as the male, you'll also be required to pay for the wedding reception.

Which as a farang, you might find unusual, but then again TiT so nothing should really surprise

Personally I got no problem paying for things....but being dictated to on it by a mother in law or even the missus even worse both would have me heading for the hills....

no way would I let myself be used for some old hag to have a bit of face in her village.....seen plenty of fellas buckle and let them get away with it which is akin to letting your puppy pee on the kitchen floor.....it won't be long till it is crapping in your bed!

@ OP

Listen to your GF. She's probably right and you're probably stupid.

The question is this -- is she actually worth it?

1. is she the right one for you?

2. do you really love her?

3. is she incredibly sexy?

4. is she worth the sin-sod and the house you may have to buy and the money you may have to pay the mother?

If she is, do it. And be happy. And have a great marriage. And make lots of beautiful babies.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday I asked my GF to get married. Inevitably the conversation turned to money. It's just how things work here in Asia.

I'm gonna pay. And I'm gonna make it work. I'm older and wiser, now.

Forget the opinions of the schoolboys who claim that everything here in Thailand in plain sailing.

Utter hogwash I have to say....why would you have to give her mother any money if SHE/your gf and wife to be is working and has her own career?

build a house......build your own house first!!!

your reply reads as if you are an old man with a maid/gf or wife of at least 40 years your junior and you know you shouldn't be with her so are happy to pay.....

as the OP said she cannot pick and choose when she wants to be modern or traditional Thai person....same goes with all this sin sod <deleted>...

Maybe I am wrong and my marriage has been a sham thus far

I'm inclined to see the sin-sot as another litmus test for compromise, to see what one's getting himself into. There are many options to consider, especially if one isn't rich.

Without getting too much into the sin-sot debate, my point is that in the spirit of compromise, there's no reason to thumb one's nose entirely at a tradition many Thais still value as a show of the man's intention. Of course if an excessive amount is sought, alarm bells should ring.

I agree....but to blatantly put your hands up and surrender that this is they way it is done so I won't make any fuss really doesn't sit right with me personally....

with people prepared to give in as quick as I have just read and say ok honey have it your way it is of no wonder why the majority of thai people think us silly farangs are really silly...

Feel sad for the boys concerned. They will 99% end up becoming gay men.

Is that right? That's why so many Thais are gay, they have all been molested when they where young

although you taking the pee you might be onto something?

@ OP

Listen to your GF. She's probably right and you're probably stupid.

The question is this -- is she actually worth it?

1. is she the right one for you?

2. do you really love her?

3. is she incredibly sexy?

4. is she worth the sin-sod and the house you may have to buy and the money you may have to pay the mother?

If she is, do it. And be happy. And have a great marriage. And make lots of beautiful babies.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday I asked my GF to get married. Inevitably the conversation turned to money. It's just how things work here in Asia.

I'm gonna pay. And I'm gonna make it work. I'm older and wiser, now.

Forget the opinions of the schoolboys who claim that everything here in Thailand in plain sailing.

Utter hogwash I have to say....why would you have to give her mother any money if SHE/your gf and wife to be is working and has her own career?

build a house......build your own house first!!!

your reply reads as if you are an old man with a maid/gf or wife of at least 40 years your junior and you know you shouldn't be with her so are happy to pay.....

as the OP said she cannot pick and choose when she wants to be modern or traditional Thai person....same goes with all this sin sod <deleted>...

Maybe I am wrong and my marriage has been a sham thus far

What did they think of your poetry Gerry?

to those saying he looks like he can take care of himself....I personally wouldn't like to tackle one yaba'd up khatoey let alone multiples of them....all the strength of a man with the venom of a woman when revved up, very dangerous especially with finger nails and stilettos as their weapons

I used to be an estate agent in Pattaya for a good 8 years, started off working in the office opposite royal garden on 2nd road, I can't speak for the agents now but I would say it must be even harder now with the internet and all the info it has to offer, the clientele coming through the door (russian-indian-chinese) and rising costs in the town for office etc.

I had experiences where I visited peoples property to list it and when I put a value on it basis what had been sold in there recently the owners would get offended and insist it should be listed higher! What kind of incentive is that really? I was there to sell their property get paid not massage their ego about their place that they had decorated to their taste and put so much into the extras and paid the high price where their missus had sorted it all out and not bargained (why would she when it's not her money) they expected it back plus profit....

Then there was the time wasters which come with being in a tourist town, the usual types were the ones who came into the office to buy and could never tell you how much they had for a budget, had been there for a while holidaying and coming to the end of their trip and were going home so just wanted a look to see what they could get for their money and were looking to purchase next trip...blah blah blah!

Owners who when you took a potential client to their property would not shut up and ruin the experience/deal or even worse slip the client their details and tell them to call them direct for a 'special' deal cutting the agent out (caught loads doing that)

So the above is just a very small fraction of what goes on in that business, you have unscrupulous agents, unscrupulous sellers and yes unscrupulous buyers.....

This thread was opened about a moan on 5% commission mainly..... It is not a surprise commission that you find out when they get a buyers is it? It is spelled out to you from the get go so you got 2 choices, agree and let them do all the hard work for you to find a buyer or sell it yourself.......if it were me I would be doing both and just be happy you get to sell your property in a town where development and new properties with payment plans are your enemy and factor in their 5% on your sale price!

Good luck

Nothing like warning the crims that a bust is on the way. I guess when they haven't caught any Thais carrying guns or drugs this weekend they will act surprised and probably start on the farang to ensure they hit their targets.

Ready for the next news story on how there was no crime this weekend and hardly any criminals found so Pattaya is once again safe and the safest city in Thailand thus no need for any further crack downs or work to be done

As said above......it's great being a criminal when you get the heads up off plod that they are having a weekend of crackdowns

Face....show of, loss of and lack of

Correct; her 2 year period doesn't start when she first entered the UK with her fiancé visa; it starts when her FLR began.

So the earliest she can apply is 28 days before her FLR expires.

thanks for confirming that

Can I just ask, if in our situation where my wife came here on a fiancee visa then after 6 months when we was married she obtained her FLR visa which is due to expire 21st July 2013 then we cannot attempt to make an appointment for ILR the 1 day premium service till 28 days before expiry?

google BKK or Thai real estate.

you will find many agents with hundreds of listings of varied sizes and prices, they are far cheaper.

no comparison whatsoever.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38706742.html?premiumA=true

A link sowing a house in Derby for £51,000 can any one show me a link for house built as well with a garden as big for as cheap?

utterly depressing

A little research shows that house to be a repossession on a run-down council estate, no interior pictures as it has most likely been wrecked by the evicted previous owner. Area surrounded by unemployed and druggies next to a major road.

Viewing houses in better areas gives prices in the UKP 140,000+

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27016293.html?showcase=true&premiumA=true

So pretty much the same standard of area as many Thai moo bans then, druggies, rotting garbage, main roads with huge pot holes in them blah blah blah....you say Bolex I say Rolex

what about all the ongoing costs of owning a house in uk,such as land and council taxes,how much to get a plumber or a sparkie to do work,or a painter to do a job...certainly no comparison to here in thailand

ok the topic was about properties and the cost not about the cost of living and maintaining but here goes....

In the UK I pay council tax and for that I live my life without the smell and sight of garbage stacked in public places, they even come and get it from the bin where I put it these days...if you are living on a moo ban in Thailand then I sincerely hope all of your maintenance fee isn't being embezzled by the committee as most of them seem to do so, as in my other post everything is sweet in the brand new homes for the first few years then it all goes to ruin and isn't maintained!

land taxes....you got them in Thailand as well, it's just whether or not you chooses to de-value the property to pay less, quite a mute point really...

as for tradesmen come off it you are having a giggle with that one, very few and far between and again there are countless threads on here about 'thai tradesmen' and their antics....I am sure some on here can share but the one I remember is a worker bricking up a window and door way so they were effectively trapped in a room and had bricked themselves in there....or the 'thai sparkie' whose idea to join live wires and make them safe is a bit of black tape which is then cemented into your walls....or even the ones who start jobs then when they realise they have mis quoted for it do a moonlight never to be seen again!

Thanks for the chuckle

there has been countless posts on here about owning a property in Thailand, you can buy on a moo ban that looks great when its first finished then turns into a hovel within 2 years or you can buy and build a stand alone property of your dreams only to have a motorbike repair shop or pig farm good chance both set up within a distance guaranteed to make the most placid a raving looney!

comparing cheap townhouses in Thailand to Victorian built houses in the UK is a bit like comparing Bolex made in China to Rolex made in swiss...

as for the comment about keep your houses in cold blighty.....ha ha that old chestnut eh