billythehat

31 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

I agree with your point about the start of the high season, because I've always thought that it really didn't get underway until mid December, however that's about all I can agree with and I base this on friends I have in the bar, nightclub, restaurant small hotel and massage parlour businesses, because they all say that spend is down, in some cases 40% down on last year, which in itself didn't seem to be a fantastic year anyway.

 

True there may be more bodies in the place, but if they not spending the money then they are of no use whatsoever.

 

And as for believing the stats which are put together by various tourist associations and even some of the more salubrious hotels, well I always take those with a pinch of salt. Three weeks ago a friend arrived here and decided that he wanted to stay near the beach so he visited the hotels along the Beach Road to try and book a room for a month or so, but was told at every reception desk that they were full.

 

He couldn't believe this because friends here that own businesses said that could not possibly be the case, so they advised him to get onto the Internet and sure enough all of the hotels he had visited had rooms available at rates of up to 40% discount..........explain that? It has been suggested that these hotels had allocated these rooms to various "agencies" and they could only be booked through that avenue, however that would seem to be financial ineptitude, surely?

 

And your quote about infrastructure, as noted by "billythehat", has to be an April 1 joke come early!

"financial ineptitude"

A “cashier” friend of mine refers to this as the ‘Thai Business Model’ or to use an English parlance ‘Belly Up’.

17 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

 

Well if you consider a free dodge the potholes game guaranteed on every trip on the road, and the free flowing streams of questionable content onto beaches, then yes, infrastructure projects are world class.

I agree and furthermore I reckon the software gaming industry has missed a great opportunity here to develop a game variant of that best-selling game “Great Theft Auto”…say, “YOO PAY YOO PAY!”  …bonus points awarded for a waking flight off the island and the shirt still on your back. I’m not a player of such but I could sit through a few games of this.

20 minutes ago, CHFarang said:

I would like to correct some points made here. First, the period from November - Christmas has never been a particularly high occupancy time. Rates are up compared to low season, yes, but occupancies across the board in Patong are some of the lowest of the entire year. At least for the last 5 - 6 years, High season only kicked off around Christmas. 

In fact, according to STR (one of the most reliable international hospitality data provider) rates and occupancy levels in December are up YOY 3.7%, rates by 0.8%. Plus of course the many hundreds of rooms that have been added compared to last year. 

Average occupancy on Patong from all hotels reporting to STA (90% of the medium and large hotels) is at 80%.

The availability you see on booking.com is in no way a reflection of real occupancy levels, how would they know anyway. It is probably based on the rooms hotels allocate to this particular sales channel.

 

I know may of you here on this thread are convinced that Patong is dead because a few of the old bars and restaurant who are unable and unwilling to adapt are complaining. 

The fact however is that Patong and Phuket in general are alive and well with steady YOY growth and great projects in infrastructure, accomodation, entertainment and shopping in the pipeline. 

Wishing you all a happy new year 2017!

"great projects in infrastructure"

great sense of humour there, guv...

13 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

The first sentence in your above post is entirely incorrect.  It should have read:

 

It was the vertical columns that had failed due to ghosts.

 

Thus your subsequent analysis regarding load types and proprietary jacket systems is irrelevant.

 

Ghosts are removed by making merit.

 

 

Sir, I had already taken this into account when inputting the calculations and had consulted the relevant local Thai building control standards:

TH0009.BC69.Do-you-know-who-my-father-is.1200999D-Part 3:2001

Input – Mc columns A1 to A6 < Mb

Output – Send in Scooby Doo and those pesky kids

Result – Columns only partially collapse so no poplem na

10 hours ago, Bucko said:

When I was in JC last July it was like a Ghost Mall --the centre of it where the boat and water feature are--were closed off because  the concrete beams below were showing signs of stress--maybe the weight of water wasn't calculated ?? --has that been fixed up now ??

 

It was the vertical columns that had failed to due buckling stresses and not the horizontal components of beams and floor slabs. The failed columns were unable to support those loads and were patched-up using a proprietary jacket system. The usage of term ‘fixed’ should be taken using the native Thai context. The report should have shown the original Engineer’s calculation sheets for the imposed loads, dead loads and subsequent RC design. Whether the Engineer had taken the weight of the water as a dead or imposed load is a moot point and to whose code he-she was applying. It’s important to note that the safety factors for each of the loading types is different and would give conflicting values in the calculations for the amount of rebar needed.

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

You are quite right, and you forgot to mention the rise in drug use and drug dealing, with new offenders being caught almost daily.

 

The failing infrastructure is something that I have mentioned very often in my posts, because that in itself is a direct result of the amount of corruption, greed and stupidity inherent within the "hierarchy" here.

 

Everything that could have been done to lower the tone and desirability of the place, has been done by all of the greedy Thais wishing to dip their snouts into the tourist trough. And now that the cheaper tourists are arriving, there's not so much to go round, so something has to give.

 

I also agree with LIK's comment regarding the expats who live here, because we know the lay of the land and provided we stay focused, we shouldn't fall prey to the likes of the timeshare touts, 13% investment returns on property, buying apartments and condos off the plans and so on.

 

Having said that, the new arrivals are still fair game and just yesterday I saw a lovestruck farang (he could not stop touching, stroking and kissing his bovine-like girlfriend) in the process of negotiating some deal or another with a farang and when he actually turned to his girlfriend and stated, "there you go are you happy now?" and giving her a hug, I pretty well knew that another farang was having his savings or pension tapped into; so the gullible and weak minded are still coming to the place.

 

Unfortunately it's also bringing in the cheap and nasty – – cheap Chinese, rough Russians and French-African scum along with a few others and when every business owner I know is lamenting the fact that spend is seriously down and they don't know if they can survive, the influx of the aforementioned tourists will almost certainly put the seal on their fate.

 

Such a shame to see what could have been a lovely place ruined by greed and small mindedness.

 

 

 

 

 

'touching, stroking and kissing his bovine-like girlfriend"

hee hee...

23 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Based on my very recent observations that  percentage of Chinese tourists coming to Phuket has drastically shrunk ....

Plenty here today in Patong, being led by Mr Onehunglo carrying the cheerleader blue number sign over his head and the attendant herd following behind…

However, as a long term inmate, you are correct in your observations regarding visitations over a time period. More Japs and Koreans noted this year.

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

As another year comes to pass on Phuket, I remember the comments of members who would ridicule those who would say, "They are killing the golden goose" and many other similar comments. 

 

I ask, where are these members now, and what argument could they possibly mount against overwhelming evidence that Phuket has changed dramatically over the last 12 months. 

 

The Thai military has been in control of the country for well over 2 years, yet, the transport mafia on Phuket continue to destroy the tourism industry here, along with failing infrastructure, sewage freely flowing into the beach waters along the coast, a sharp rise in the crime rate - particularly involving violence and firearms, and a steady rise in prices which continues to make Phuket uncompetitive as a holiday destination.

 

I would suggest, it is now undeniable that Phuket is dying. 

 

"Pirate Island" as it is know in many expat circles, has robbed, raped and pillaged so many over the years that western tourist are now changing course for other destinations.

 

I agree with LIK's comment that Phuket is fine for expats, because "we know the ropes" but it is a mine field for tourists, and the word has now well and truly got out.

 

So, where to for Phuket in 2017?   Sadly, I think more of the same.

 

I predicted the "Phuket Financial Crisis" sometime ago, and I believe the island is still heading in that direction.  

 

A saying that sums up the Phuket tourism industry is, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" and we are clearly seeing that now with the western tourism market.  

 

As stated previously, Phuket will not change, there are just too many Thai's here that feel they are entitled to an easy tourist baht, however, it's not difficult to notice that tourism has changed around Phuket's lack of change, and it hasn't been for the better. 

 

So, Happy New Year to those holding back Phuket's progress, for their own financial gain, and Good Luck for 2017 - you are going to need it.   

 

 

 

 

"too many Thai's here that feel they are entitled to an easy tourist baht"

Yep, that's the bottom line now. 

Talking  to some of the traders in JC’s they are having a very tough high season with some claiming trade down some 40% from last year...looking at the near empty malls (for high season) and a number of closures I suspect this figure may actually be higher.

39 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Ah, so wearing sunglasses in nightclubs is no longer cool?  

 

I was wondering why I could neither attract nor even see the pretty women in these clubs :)  

 

I was worried that it might be my dress sense.

 

Jimmy Saville? 

On 12/26/2016 at 10:15 AM, xylophone said:

A friend went to The Islander for a Christmas Eve dinner and said that it was, "so-so", with only 3 tables occupied at his time of eating.

 

I know it's not Christmas lunch per se, but...........

I went there today for a roasty…I was gasping for a plate of spuds after only a week away from Outer Earth and I needed my fix. It looked good on paper and always take the precaution of bringing my own large pot of English mustard with me. My disappointment (I guard my true opinion due to the danger of expressing factual discourse), well, how hard can it be to do spuds properly? Overcooked and watery offerings they were, dried up pork…I left half the plate…nuff said.

After a couple of goes at tracking down a decent brekky – some real disasters on offer, I took a friends nod on what the Yorkshire had to offer and, yeah, not bad at all for the cash. My only advice to Somchai the chef would be; baked beans need to be heated and I’m fully able to cut my sausage in half. Good cuppa tea too which helped calm my nerves after hearing the report on BBC world that fruity George Micheal had handed his chips in...I tell ya, they've been dropping like flies this year...

On 12/26/2016 at 10:44 AM, xylophone said:

 

Your post sprang to mind whilst I was travelling around Patong over the past couple of days, because I noticed that at least three "hotels" on that "new road" were undergoing some sort of renovation, and on one of them it looks like the renovation has stalled because I can't see any progress?

 

Not only that, what can easily be seen is the quality of some of the buildings which have gone up and this is easily noticeable on some of these places just a few metres north of Banzaan market, because the paint on the buildings has already started to fade and flake and they look about 20 years old, rather than the few years which they really are.

 

And as you have said, the oversupply is killing guesthouses and the like, and this is also very noticeable on Nanai Road because when could you ever get a room for 600 baht in the high season in the past?

 

The same goes with the bars on Nanai, which I mentioned in a previous post, because they have to be struggling big time.

 

Getting back to the good old Bangla Road, well I was out again on Christmas Eve and not only was my usual Italian restaurant fairly empty (as were most of the others nearby) but many of the bars were still struggling despite the fact that just occasionally they would have a quick influx of punters.

 

Some of the girls in one Soi were just so desperate for business that I heard a few of them truly "pleading" for passing farangs to come in and buy them a drink. Sure enough us farangs have always been harangued with this sort of behaviour, but in the past there has always been a fun aspect to it, however now I sensed desperation and it wasn't pleasant.

 

Two bar owner friends in one Soi said that although business had picked up a little on this particular evening, overall it had been bad for some time now, with one saying that he had experienced better patronage in other low seasons.

 

As at 1:30 a.m. there were queues of young folk outside of Illuzion and Tiger Disco as well as Seduction, and although a couple of the bars I had been in had their fair share of the younger set, mainly because there were live bands in them, the mainstay of the old beer bars, the older expat mongerer, have become a dying breed.

I’ve been kicking around here for a week now and concur with the observations in your last few posts. Never seen Patong in such bad a shape coupled with distinct change of demographic and local attitude towards tourists. Bangla would appear to be gasping its last desperate cries as the remaining classic format of beer bars struggle for the little trade available. Amongst the many and varied reasons already discussed many times here, it’s not hard to see why the bread and butter crew of old have moved on and wont be back, (there are exceptions i know; Simon the copper was chased outta Dodge). The new crew are in and I vote that the town be renamed to the “Costa del Patong” as it is so reminiscent of what became of the pleasant seaside towns of Spain all them thar years ago.

7 hours ago, DrDave said:

The entrance is directly on Bangla, at the Seduction night club. For the restaurant, there's a dedicated escalator that takes you from the street up to the roof-level of Seduction, where the restaurant is located.

 

If you happen to linger around the entrance for a moment, there's generally a staff member that will approach you with coupons (usually 20% off dinner and/or 2 for one drinks).

 

We've been going to Higher ever since it opened about 2 years ago. While the food has been consistently good each visit, the service has been uneven (but not enough to be off-putting). It's still one of our favorites.

Cheer's guv, I'll check that one out.

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:52 AM, xylophone said:

I have spent some time looking through this thread and cannot find any mention of perhaps my favourite restaurant at the moment in Patong, which is "Higher".

 

A concise and reasonably varied menu from steaks to seafood to sushi to Italian and Thai, along with a few other varieties thrown in. The wagyu beef tenderloin at 790 baht would have to be one of the best steaks I've ever tasted in my life. I ask for them cooked "medium" and it comes out just on the medium side of medium rare as I've always been used to in other countries......pink but not bloody.

 

There is a free "entree" of a few different sorts of bread (small wholemeal and olive buns, breadsticks, etc) just to stave off the hunger pangs whilst you wait for the main course.

 

The food is superb and the service is impeccable. Have been there quite a few times and will continue to do so at this rate.

 

Another restaurant I frequent in Soi Patong Resort is the Italian restaurant named "Salute" (used to be called Valerio and Alex) and I've always found the food to my liking and it is very inexpensive in my view.

 

 

where's the entrance to Higher? is it near the food court just before the tiger complex?

11 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Had outside tables in the mall at Irish times last time we went a few years ago and may be slightly more expensive but nothing to worry about

We do not go to patong very often but from personal experience the Irish times is better than the islander for food

As i said a few years ago and things may have changed

You also get 2 hours free parking at Jungceylon if you show your receipt from the Irish times when leaving

"You also get 2 hours free parking at Jungceylon if you show your receipt from the Irish times"

Didn't know that...good tip, but do you know if you can park a moto sai down there as well?

12 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

I'm surprised at your Islander comment. While we do not go there frequently we have gone over many many years with friends and I can't think that anyone had a 'bad' meal.

 

As for the Times ... I tried it out soon after it opened years ago. Food was Ok but I did not like the dark interior, not very cozy, fine if you want a stand-up drinking man's pub.  I never went back.

Again, I would have to disagree with your diatribe relating to the Irish times. A large open plan area with plenty of seating, air con and clean toilets with bog paper. The Islander can be too hot and coupled with the din and fumes of the traffic clattering oop and down the soi spoils the enjoyment of eating out. Not nearly enough spuds on the plate either.

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

I give the Islander the thumbs up ...

I disagree as you're not comparing like for like. If however one is looking just for dinner at a reasonable price you may have a slight point with the Islander.

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

I have just been handed a flyer whilst walking round Jungceylon and it is promoting a Christmas day three course dinner at 950 baht plus VAT. It is at the Irish Times in Jungceylon and the menu is as follows: –

 

Starter: Prawn cocktail/tomato soup.

 

Main course: Turkey, glazed honey ham, chestnut stuffing, parsnip, Brussel sprouts, glazed carrots, baby peas, roast potatoes, cranberry sauce and turkey gravy.

 

Dessert: Christmas pudding, mince pies with brandy sauce.

 

I hope it is okay to post this, and I have nothing whatsoever to do with the Irish Times or anyone associated with it.

I tried it last year and, well, nothing special for ya 20 sov's but a fairly good portions and the roast spuds appeared to be the real item and not those dreadful floury preformed frozen items. No cheese board or coffee options included in the 3^rd course either...Baby Peas and Turkey gravy?...hmmmmm...hee hee...

Like many Thai eateries here, the idea of good customer service is an alien concept and I cant say I was impressed but I suppose it is what it is. Repeat customers anyone?

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

Wow. Are you missing the point, on this one. Most Thai boys have an overinflated sense of self. Is it because they are extraordinary human beings? Future nobel peace prize winners? Future oscar caliber directors or performers? Potentially scientists who are going to really change the world? NO. It is because they are boys. Period. Nothing more. They are being sold a completely false bill of goods by Thai society, and are growing up with a ridiculously inflated sense of entitlement, based on nothing but gender and chauvinism. It is causing laziness, and a profound lack of achievement. So, they need to be brought down a few pegs. Nothing would be more beneficial to many Thai boys, than to hear that most girls are better than you, unless you really do something to prove yourself in this world. 

Good reply and the unfortunate rub is the potential to tap into the available talent is sadly wasted. It doesn’t stop in Lalaland either as I’ve noticed similar traits when Thais move to the west to live; the mothers still treat the boys as princes and this myth is undone when they start school and, after some ‘behavioral readjustment’ by the other boys, the lesson is learnt or it isn’t. I work for one the largest engineering consultants in the world but have never worked with any Thai chartered engineers (not saying there are none) here in Europe, the middle east or South Africa; there has to be good reason for this vacuum of expertise from a comparatively large developing nation. India and China produce them by the truckload.

New Guv (through clenched tooth grin) “This hab better be joke maak maak…” in response to the contents of his first brown envelope.

Possible loss of face for not having the loudest shirt?  

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 5:21 AM, simon43 said:

 

Not really the 'handle' that I'm happy with 

 

I spoke before about adapting to the 'customer' (ie Chinese).  But there is only so much that you can do to meet the customer's demands for a 'value-for-money' meal or accommodation or transport etc.

 

Construction work at the airport has gone 'crazy'.  New condos (for short-term rental) and small hotels are being built to meet the demands of the Chinese tourists.  

 

Even with the large numbers of Chinese arriving every night, there could soon be an oversupply of accommodation that is intended to meet that particular demand.

 

About the only way that is still available to ensure that your business stands out from the competition is to learn to speak Chinese.  (Seriously, that would definitely be a marketing advantage).

 

I have learnt spoken Mandarin (conversational) some years ago, but although easy to learn, my brain seems too old to retain this knowledge.  

 

Ah well, if I start learning Arabic and Hindi right now, I should be ready for the next influx of tourists, (oops, mustn't forget to learn Kazakh as well) 

 

 

 

 

“Not really the 'handle' that I'm happy with ”

Sir, I agree and you are long due for a promotion – 1 pair of parachute wings for you to wear on photo op’s are in the post.

The issue of language is a very valid point and I concur that language skills that are not used are usually lost and consigned to the ‘where did I put my keys?’ bin. However, should there be a budget, would employing a Thai who could speak the required lingo be one solution or have I failed to grasp the logistics of running a business there?

Well done for attempting the Mandarin language which apart from its complex tones is also a very facially expressive form of communication, a sort of alley cat wail coupled with an expression of someone suffering from bad piles.

Finally, it may come down to the business figures; can other businesses support other businesses with regard to visitor spending? The supply chain starts from the bottom with A supplies to B and so on….Biznit 101. The removal of the usual supply trains has caused the rapid demise of various types of businesses reported on TV over the last few seasons.

15 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Fantastic observation ... we have been in the long term rental market for 18 years now.  we have always gone the 'extra mile' to take good care of our long term guests.

 

These days when we state our monthly rate then most don't even bother looking, they are off looking for much much cheaper than our prices. Today they all expect at most a 6,000 baht/month price. I suppose they find a basic room for that price, although some previous guests I still am in contact with end up paying 8,000 baht for a much inferior place than our apartments.  Then when they can't make enough money to pay for that ... they leave.  

120-180 quid pm? Incredible that folk would argue about a fee that would maybe only get you 2-3 days in high season at a not so upscale Patong hotel. I know, I've stayed at a few before finding one or two with the right balance of quality and service. The fees you quoted, from a business point of view, would infer that breaking even is indeed a slim scenario and I appreciate that there is only so much a particular business model can be tweaked to take up the slack. During the worst of the recession years the Engineering sector took a severe beating with regard to rates and due to scarce pickings, I was being offerred only 30% of the usual going rate. There was no model to tweak – same skill and experience – it was take it or leave it. After 10 months my business was under severe strain and I almost lost my beautiful house; believe me, I know the worry. However, around 2010 the industry did pick up, rates were normalised and I've never been busier. A lot of pony was spoken about the effects on business post-Brexit but if anything the civil engineering sector (in the UK) is robust with many large consultants saying that they are having very serious problems filling some professional posts. Sorry, a bit off topic there...where was I...oh yeah, a good business model versus the immovable object...depends how long you can sustain the loss and more importantly, the knowledge to know when to cut the line and initiate damage limitation on the remaining finances/resources. It's never anything as simple as to say that one is stuck between a rock and a hard place; there is always an option even though such options are never desirable in these situations but they do let you move on. You and a few others here have witnessed the high water mark but these are different times. Simon the copper made notes about adaptation in the current market but isn't the reality of over-supply of accomodation, greed, stupidity, etc. counter productive to attempts, long term, for adaptation in the hospitality sector?

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

They say that there are two things certain, death and taxes, but you can add change to that and it is an ongoing evolutionary thing.

 

And on that point, if change evolves into a “more, better, different” outcome then all is generally well, but then again towns, places and cities can change for the worse for a number of reasons, especially if those reasons are not geared towards providing what the “drawcard” was in the first place.

 

I don’t know about other places in Thailand however when I first came here in 2004, there were customers flocking to the beaches, nightlife and beer bars and everything seemed to be working to one degree or another and I never remember any half built/abandoned condominiums or apartments let alone empty shops and shop houses, in fact just about every man and his dog was interested in setting up a business in one way or another (farangs and the beer bars seemed to be the favourite) because money could be made on them.

 

Now a place like Patong is totally reliant upon its customers and just like every good business, a way has to be found to deliver superior customer service/customer satisfaction and all services should be geared to that in order to get increased and repeat business.

 

As other posters have said, what has been done in Patong to provide that increased level of customer service and the answer is: – absolutely nothing. Transport has not been geared towards moving tourists around the place in an efficient and cost-effective manner, no means of public transport, a huge increase in the numbers of taxis and tuk tuks clogging up the inefficient one-way system and which have to pay their monthly dues, and building has gone on without any consideration for infrastructure/services resulting in sewerage overflows, smells and flooding.

 

 Abandoned structures abound and are not only highly visible like the ACE condos and “The Park” eyesores, but can be seen amongst the everyday shops and shop houses in many of the roads here.

 

Then of course you have the fiasco with regards to the beaches and what you can and can’t do on them, when other countries seem to make these things work and laying on a sun lounger under an umbrella with food and drink vendors on hand, was what many people thought of as part of an ideal vacation.

 

So absolutely nothing has been done to increase the customer experience here, in fact just about everything that has been done has been based on greed or stupidity, not to mention corruption and there is only so long that a world-famous tourist attraction can live on its memories, because change which only benefits the powers that be and not the customer base will not succeed.
 

“Greed or stupidity” Yep, in a nutshell. I feel sorry for some of the western owners of hotels/guest houses that I have met over the last 16 years who have always gone the the extra mile to welcome and make sure their guests have a great holiday. However, the one thing none of them could do anything about was the immovable object of the Thai mindset mentioned.

"We will ensure that CCTV surveillance coverage is maintained in precarious areas, and fix where needed"

What could possibly go wrong?

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why don't you post on topic and stop baiting.

....yawn....