sometimewoodworker

Yes The 20 million is from one person (spouse) it does not limit the amount that can be received tax free, just the amount from a single donee. As the gifts are not assessable the is no filing requirement but there is a gift contract requirement that maybe checked by the TRD as proof that it is a gift. You need advice from a competent dual country accountant. If the gift is within or into Thailand there is no tax due with that scenario . However just because you give funds to your wife outside Thailand very probably has no relevance to the TRD. Once she remits those funds to Thailand they are very probably taxable as at that point she is remitting her money. My understanding is that the Thai gift regulations are relevant In Thailand and only in Thailand. You need the advice of either the TRD or a Thai tax accountant With the amounts you are referring to you can certainly afford, and need to afford, professional advice, I suspect that your scheme will not be seen a valid tax avoidance one.

You are absolutely correct for the previous 16 years from April 2007 I had no particular interest as the situation was rather well defined and didn’t have anything special to contribute so I only participated In areas where I had actual knowledge or experience to gain or give (FWIW over 10k posts mostly in the property and some in the immigration fora). However the Por 161 and Por 162 changed the structure and I needed to pay attention and discover exactly how I needed to arrange my finances and understand both the sections of the U.K. DTC and Thai tax code that now effect me and of course others. The ability to understand both are not exactly simple and require time, work and a mindset that appreciates paying attention to exact wording. In most other areas this would be described as being overly pedantic and nitpicking, but in tax and immigration law/rules it’s a distinct advantage or even a requirement.

That is a very sweeping statement. The TRD does not agree. If you fill out a tax form in other countries is irrelevant to the TRD. You may be required to fill out a Thai tax form or there maybe no need to do so, it is dependant on your assessable income. It is perfectly possible that your assessable income is low enough that you do not need to complete a Thai tax form

The critical point is to crystallise the financial situation as of 1/1/2024. Because all funds at that date are tax free whenever the are brought into Thailand. Separate accounts make the situation clear. if you commingle the funds specially stocks and shares, it becomes difficult to prove the date origin and when profits arise. Bed and breakfasting should have been done at the end of last year however if you didn’t the sooner you do it the more clear the situation will be.

Article 3 sub (c) Japan Thailand DTS no ambiguity

To clarify for U.K. citizens and taxpayers. (NB I do not address Thai citizens, the rules are different) U.K. Government service pensions are U.K. taxed only All other pensions (the state pension is one of these) are in one of 3 categories. 1) taxed in the U.K.; assessable for taxation in Thailand, when remitted to Thailand credit is available for U.K. tax paid (you should keep good records) you may or may not have a top up tax liability in Thailand, individual circumstances will decide 2) untaxed in the U.K. as they are paid outside the U.K.; this means that the total is assessable in Thailand no credit is available, if the amount remitted is greater than you Thai allowances you have a Thai tax liability 3) a government service pension that has been converted to be paid outside the U.K. taxation area; in this case 2) above applies This is the U.K. / Thai tax law as modified by the U.K. Thai DTC If you should/are allowed, in fact to submit Thai tax return and get a TIN is at the discretion of your local tax office

@DrJack54 That is certainly one way to do the transfer and if you suspect that the exchange rates are likely to move in your favour paying into your Wise multi money account/wallet (that is what you are doing) is a good plan. I used to do this and have a tiny balance in my multi money account (£0.43!). However it is extremely likely that you can direct Wise to initiate the transfer from your Westpac account (you will still have to authorise the transfer) and transfer the money to your Thai account. So this simplifies the process 1 contact to Wise that sets up all the details (you only enter the amount once) 2 authorise the Westpac transfer (wise transfers you to Westpac for the banking steps) 3) you are transferred back to Wise where they tell you the status. by this time the cash maybe already in your Thai bank depending on the bank you use SCB is fast a couple of others are also fast BANGKOK BANK is slow This is the streamlined process available in the U.K. it reduces the possibility of mistakes, since I don’t use Australian banks I don’t know that the same process is available there but I suspect it is.

Like you there were never any online discussions that I saw, but unlike you I did occasionally get asked about the tax situation and though I didn’t actually read the TRD information I was well aware of the tax free status of previous years income. I shared this knowledge if it was relevant to the conversation. These conversations were occasional but not unusual I probably got asked a couple of times a year, possibly because people were referred to me as someone who might have bothered to understand the rules, I don’t know, it never came up AFIR. Like you I am doubtful if the claim that a significant percentage of U.K. pension recipients in Thailand are on government service pensions, I never met one, they were all on state pension if over retirement age. The claim is probably related to the places where the contacts took place. It is only since 2024 that I have met 2 U.K. government service pensioners.

I have no idea, nor is it relevant, of your sources of income. ALL DTA’s provide protection for some income types against Thai taxation NO DTA provides protection for all types of income You may have believed you were clear, you were not. The implication of your post was that the mere presence of a DTA made all the income immune to Thai taxation You now say that, that was not your meaning. I accept your reworded statement as a significantly better statement of the facts.

Part of the amounts remitted are covered by the tax paid (NB you need proof of tax payment) however DTA’s especially from low taxation countries do not shied remittances from Thai taxation. Even from higher taxation countries like the U.K. there is a range where the U.K. personal allowance is higher than the Thai allowances so Thai tax is due. And when you get to Singapore with a maximum tax rate of 24% (at 24million baht) virtually all income remitted will attract Thai taxation. The concept that a DTA provides immunity from Thai taxation is wrong. You may not have meant that but if you didn’t then you need to change the wording of your statements.

So you are agreeing with my post 😉 However there is no significant need to wait and see there have been numerous cases all in2024 of “no tax due or refund due no return accepted, no TIN available” irrespective of the assessable income, the only wait and see is if your tax office follows the majority if there is no 2024 precedent available to you

That is certainly possible. But there we are talking about the law and the practice of the TRD The law “assessable income over 220,000,( married) tax form required” The practice in most TRD offices (example assessable income 600,000 but) “no tax to pay or refund, no TIN available or tax form accepted”

Article 7 from the U.K. Thai DTC No we are not. I am using English and the Thai U.K. DTC 1981. you are using American and the USA Thai 1997. DTC So it is impossible to draw analogies. It equally impossible to say anything other than X is true in the case taxpayer Y. Only if taxpayer Z has identical circumstances to Y will the same be true.

It was to ensure that people are paying the correct tax and close a huge loophole in the TRD code just because you are paying tax doesn’t mean that you are paying the correct amount of tax

There you demonstrate that you do not understand the process. You must provide proof of your claim if challenged. They only have to check that they agree or disagree with your claim. So you do the work, they choose to agree or disagree. Audits, as have been mentioned, are not common, though they can be remarkably unpleasant unless you are totally sure of the correctness of your situation and can provide proof.

There you are selectively quoting and as such you either don’t understand or are misunderstanding the actual FAQ FULL quote is since there is no rate of tax given in the DTC for most income the standard Thai income tax rates apply. It is only where there is a specific rate give in an agreement that (FAQ 5) is relevant

Unless specified in a DTA DTC or is at the discretion of a TRD officer

No anomaly, your misunderstanding of the TRD

You are therefore a recipient of a U.K. government service pension which (as long as you are not or do not become a Thai citizen) is exclusively taxed in the U.K. All other U.K. pensions are assessable in Thailand, specifically the U.K. state pension is taxable in Thailand. I have never suggested that the TRD cannot choose there are some cases where it must see the DTC there are some cases where it must see the DTC That would have to be either a RD policy or discretion given to officers I have never suggested otherwise You either have knowledge that is exclusive to the TRD or are making assumptions and inventing “truth”

There you are picking words specifically talking about certain categories of income as defined in specific articles and applying it to other categories of income. This is direct contradiction to the principle in the DTC/DTA that (unless specifically excluded) you must pay the highest tax assessed not the lowest.

You may believe in sprits, goolies, gosties, angels, devils, gods and whatever myths and imaginary entities you like that doesn’t make them real, millions do and their belief still makes no difference The U.K. D.T.C is specifically designed for the “Elimination of Double Taxation” see article 23 for the details read the complete DTC However as @chiang mai has tried to explain double taxation does not mean that no income can taxed in both countries (some income is exclusively tax in one or the other country). As he has explained it means that the total tax paid on that income is the highest assessed in one or the other country, credit being given for tax paid in the lower taxing country. The bold statement was from the U.K. Thai government’s DTC You should learn that the the US-Thai DTA only governs the taxation between the USA and Thailand and while I can’t be bothered to read it, I am sure that the language you attribute to it is wrong on you part, if not a deliberate lie the best interpretation is that you are incorrect completely confused or can’t understand the language.

Bunk. If DTA says certain income, like govt pensions, are "exclusively taxable" by source country -- that's it. Thailand has no authority to tax same. So you are saying that the THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND are not posting the truth!!! you really should understand the DTC. You should also learn to actually read and understand before posting. I never suggested that certain forms of income are not exempt from taxation in one country. So by putting up a straw man, then knocking it down you have proved nothing. I have zero interest in the USA / Thai DTA, what you are claiming could be true or it could be a misplaced fabricated.

The complete DTC I agree with your comment. However i understand the very few sections that are relevant to me this current year. It is not rocket science though the language try’s its best to simulate the complexity by being as brief as possible. There are no laws in DTC’s. There are clauses in the various (about 61) agreements. Your misconceptions may explain your difficulties.

The U.K. Thailand DTC has only 3 categories that give rates; interest, royalties and dividends, this means that the vast majority of income is not restricted and so assessable for tax at the prevailing rates. It is certainly possible that the TRD may not enforce the letter of the law, there are numerous cases of people with assessable income over the proscribed limit for reporting but under the various allowances so having zero tax to pay being told to go away and not file a tax return. But then it is the difference between the letter of the law and the practice of the TRD, there is also the cost benefit analysis practiced by the TRD, if you owe millions in tax the TRD are likely to ensure you pay everything due if you get audited

There is no sprit involved. There is the letter of the agreement. The agreement is to avoid taxing the same money at a higher rate than the maximum in either country . The principal is that the highest rate of tax should be paid, be that in one country or two is immaterial, often a single payment in the source country, but there is nothing to prevent taxation in both countries, for most income. There is no sprit that supports only one country taxation. The immense misconception that the vast majority of people fall into is thinking that “because I have paid tax I one country I do not have to pay tax in the other country“. This is only true if the tax due in the first country is greater than the tax due in the second country. I have heard of nobody getting that kind of assistance.