tmd5855

I have been coming to Thailand since 1970 and no problems yet. Some guys get off the airplane and before they get out of the airport they have problems. I think I am missing the real Thailand.

Been living here since 2004, also amazed at how I can come and go from all parts and venues in Pattaya.

The Good, The Bad and the very Degenerate.

Never have a problem with Thais.

Yet, as you say, some guys have barely unpacked their case??

When saying, "WHY, I DINAE DAE NUTHIN", "OWNLEE, HAVIN A LAFF"

I'm not going to junk my marriage, or leave my wife and stepdaughter.

I love both my wife and my stepdaughter very much, and I take my marriage very seriously.

I think my wife is still very beautiful, she has a nine year old daughter.

I hope that I never become that cynical, because I don't think I would like the person I had become.

Those salient sentences above, in my opinion sums you up?

Hope you and your wife get well if not then better health.

Keep doing what your conscience and gut instinct tells you, at the moment you are doing fine.

Take care

[t.

hang em high nutters always dominate these kind of threads and they seem to make up a large segment of the expat community especially those found in "entertainment venues". sad really.

UHH Huh?

I am an expat? Can be found in certain "entertainment areas"

Do not believe in extremisim or kangaroo court ethics. Hang them high??? Certainly not, have never agreed with such inhumane and cruel punishments of 'victims' who have never seen the inside of a court, let alone judged by a jury of their peers?

No? No? No?

A bluidy good flogging first is what they need, then a whipping before being hung, drawn and quartered. No namby pamby, touchy feely stuff from me. To soft we are..............

Thaksin is already promising to bring the USD back to 40/THB and 30 million tourists a year in LOS - he has all but actually proclaimed himself the real PM. Ta-da! The joke is no longer just a joke. A whole nation (or at least most of it) has fallen for it.

That's it, my university educated, HiSo chinese parentage GF. Has just thrown off her yellow lacrosse polo shirt put on a red one?? Now saying "Tee rak, your dollar salary get bigger by 25%"........"Khun Thaksin lovely man, always love him"

I think you miss the point. Thaksin succes is not about this or that policy. That's the old Thaksin, the one that Sondhi helped to kill.

The new Thaksin is about challenging the establishment. He appeals to everybody. From the poor guy in his rice field to the successful businessman who is tired to be restrain by dumb civil servants whose only qualification is to be born in the right family.

The old Thaksin would have probably disappeared by now. The new Thaksin will probably remembered as the political leader who helped the Thai democracy in the 21st century.

Totally agree, 100%

Thaksin would have dug a big hole for himself, shot himself in the foot and tripped over his own ego.

Having a coup and getting rid of him in that way transformed his image. I think if he had been left alone he would be a forgotten man.

His transformation was not of his own making, but the stupidity of others who thought he would fade away.

Thaksin has not changed, how people see him has. The majority of the voters see him as a hero who is fighting ingrained cheating and corruption. He must be laughing up his sleeve at how it has all turned out. 5 years later his sister stands to gain power and he will be the power maker behind all the smoke and mirrors.

As ye sow, ye shall reap. Quite apt for those that thought they were smart and he would slowly dissapear.

My fear is if he ever gets back into Thailand, he will have a number of scores to settle.

That is why some people are sitting on the fence these days.

They are ready and preparing for Thaksin having a say in Thai affairs again.

[quote name='ginjag' timestamp='1308112080' post='44900

Personally i would be more likely to "rage with apolectic fits" if a criminal ex prime minister tried to take control of the country by buying the electorate - but each to his own eh??

I agree that he is a criminal, as found by existing laws?

He is an ex-prime minister by a criminal act, unless you think a military coup removing an elected goverment/prime minister is legal??

Buying the electorate?? Promising tax cuts, benefits, job relocation or direct money handoutshas always gone on in the West, only it is more subtle and discreet.

If an electorate of a country where I have no say, no vote and I am only a visa dependent visitor, decided to elect a criminal?

That is their business, none of mine. I and others on TVF, cannot change the direction of Thai politics?

Images of King Canute spring to mind

So speak your mind air your views, but to portray a person who abused the Thai people(with his power) But after taking some flack from posters-you say never mind you still get your pay . whoever is in control-fine but lets all be honest about the ex P.M.s history. So tomorrow I go and rob Bangkok Bank and then run abroad, and abuse from that position, Is that a decent thing --and hope for amnesty

Mr. Thaksin did not rob a bank.

And therein lies the weakness of the arguments from his detractors in this forum. There is an embrace of wild scenarios and fanciful allegations. There is so much visceral hatred that anything goes when discussing the gentleman. I expect one day to read in TVF that he is alleged to have performed human sacrifices and devoured the hearts of babies to gain super natural strength.

He is blamed for everything that upsets people. Yes he has faults and yes he erred. Every political leader has faults and makes mistakes. Yet, Mr. Thaksin is different than the usual leader in that he took it on the chin and didn't fall down. Like a bloodied and battered fighter he stood his ground and fought back as best he could. The manner in which he has been persecuted and used as a whipping boy for the sins of others is precisely why a large number of Thais are willing to forgive his past transgressions.. The Thai government had multiple opportunities to arrest and detain him, yet somehow he managed to be left alone. I offer that some people gambled that it would be better if he was sent to the wilderness than to be a rallying point, a martyr in a Thai prison as a political prisoner. They rolled the dice and lost.

GK,

You put your points on Thaksin and the replies to your abusers and detractors very well, well done Sir.

I agree with the analogy of the fighter standing his ground, taking on all comers, beating them and refusing to go down.

I agree that he believes he has done nothing different than PM's before him and all those that will come after him.

I agree that he believes that all charges and measures taken against him, started for political, selfish and revengeful reasons.

Before I get abused for agreeing with you.

I have no wish to support yellow or red factions or any Thai political party?? Why?? I do not have a vote.

Most (Not all) of the anti-Thaksin posters on here would rage with apoletic fits if any "Johnny Foreigners" back in their own home country (Of origin, i.e where they can vote) called them thick and manipulated because they wanted/wished to vote for/support a political party/leader of their choosing.

Pots and kettles anyone?? Where are the stones, just watch that glass house

Viewing Thai politics through international media every time Abhisit speaks he comes across as reasonable, sensible, articulate and honest (ok so it's an election and everyone is going tp talk up their chances), every time you here Thaksin speak he comes across as sniveling, victimized, flippant or confrontational. Setting aside the character assassinations that both men have had tp weather, there can be no doubt who the better man is, even if the votes recognize who the better politician is!

Yes, PM Abhisit is personable and well spoken to those of us that speak english. However, to the ears of a non English language speaker it means nothing. Yes, he speaks Thai in a polite manner, but it doesn't matter to the listener earning a subsistence wage. What were Mr. Abhisit's achievements prior to entering political life? Aside from the family connections and the old boys networking, what did he really do? Think about it. Was he a captain of industry? Did he distinguish himself by building a company? Was he active in the improvement of Thais lives as a civil rights campaigner, or an advocate of the poor? No. He came from a life of perks and didn't distinguish himself as an individual.

Mr. Thaksin can be called a snivelling thief or an evil person, but the fact is that he was smart enough to go from being an outsider to an insider and to build a fortune in the same way that many of thailand's elite hisos acquired their fortunes. Whatever, Thaksin's faults are ,he has experience as a self made man, a man that built a business empire and a man that went from humble beginnings to the PM's office. He did it on his own. He also fell from power because of his misjudgements. I think he's learnt from his past mistakes and I also think he's tougher than PM Abhisit. I doubt Mr. Abhisit could have stood up to the pounding Mr. Thaksin's taken.I doubt any of the people that take their daily potshots at Thaksin could ever attain a smidgin of his success or could take on all the folks trying to get him.

The fact that Thaksin has survived this long and has had the ability to take his opponents on, despite the odds being against him speaks to his strength and yes, even to his intelligence. He's a fighter, a tough guy that isn't afraid to show his emotional side sometimes. I offer that a great many Thais can see those qualities and gravitate to a guy that they can identify with, a man that might be a wealthy elitist in private, but one who can be seen as a man of the people, a man that is perceived to have the interest of the poor at heart. He might be full of BS, but he does a better job at conveying concern and empathy than Mr. Abhisit. That doesn't mean Mr. Abhisit isn't a decent man or that he is a bad guy. It's just about perceptions.

Very well put, whether you love or hate Thaksin? It would be foolish to ignore or dismiss his type?

A successful 'crook' would make a more effective PM than a honest man full of integrity that there is only black and white, no grey.

In the UK we had Michael Heseltine a successful man outside politics who made his money in private industry and would have been a good PM, but, because he helped wield the knife that brought about Thatcher fall he never got the top jop. The son of a trapeeze artist got the job instead. He won an unlikely election but could not hold things together.

Another person who would of done well as PM (My view) was Geoffery Archer? Had made, lost then made again a fortune in the private world. He fell when found guilty of telling lies in court and asking his friend to lie in court. His crime? Not wanting to admit he had slept with a prostitute..................... Who will cast the first stone??

So I agree with all your comments/points.

Would rather have a strong character in charge who fought his way to the top prize? Than a perceived weak character who was handed the keys for other persons reasons?

ROFL America entered both WW1 and WW2 way LATE. check the historic datelines, not all of the phantasy HW movies!

Better late than never. The Allies would have lost without them.

.

actually,

It was the Russians that saved the allies. It was the Russians that destroyed the majority of the German land forces and infilcted the highest casualties (Deaths), American war materiel re-equiped the UK.

Pacific, now that is where America won it. But Britain would still have have recovered its interests in Asia. American in interests where America. America allowed the french to take over its interest in Indo-China, but that lead to Vietnam. maybe keeping the french out?? would have been a better Idea.

A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

Why don't you get off the fence and say what you really want?

If you do not like Pattaya do not go. Pattaya is not Thailand, no doubt "Quality" tourists are intelligent to know that.

I work For a European company and live in Pattaya, like and enjoy how it is.

Bulldozers might knock down my house, so not very reasonable of you to wish it??

Or is your prostate giving you a rough time this morning, not sleep well

It depends really.

He was born in the UK before 1983, which gives him the right to claim UK citizenship, even though both his parents were Thai.

If he's never claimed UK citizenship - i.e. never applied for a passport etc. there's not really much he can give up. He can't go back in time and change where and when he was born.

He doesn't have to 'claim UK citizenship' he was a UK citizen the moment he was born. Therein is the answer, he is a UK citizen

Bit of nitpicking, but, it raises another angle on the argument.

You can be a citizen where the country is a republic, you are a citizen of the republic.

But, when your head of state is Royalty, you are a subject of the crown. Born in the UK you are a subject of Her Britannic Majesty.

People talk of British citizenship are in a slight error it is Britisn national.

So is the Thai PM being born in the UK a subject of QEII. Quite a conundrum????????????

Pom song satang.

Blimey, thats strange, my thoughts and experiences virtually word for word.

Yup. This is the experience for most westerners who get involved with this sub-culture.

Add to all that, anything you buy or build for them will be wrecked soon after. No servicing of vehicles, rarely is the house clean, electronics dropped . . .

Not threadjacking but......

Yep, no servicing?

Fitted a new 2cyl diesel engine to my ex fathers small tractor. Told her to tell him about the running in period, do not go above 70% for a few days work and change oil and filter. Left oil and filter x 2 and marked the original. Went back 8 weeks later new engine was sounding rough, (Little oil) and original filter sill on?? Oil and filter I had left gone. Tried saying they had been used?

Ex wanted new wash machine for Mama, told her a twin tub top loader most suitable.

Bought an automatic. So mugsy here had to fit a pressurised water system, 8 weeks later pump I had fitted burned out.

Fit another with an indicator lamp showing pump running and needed to be switched off.

8 weeks later new pump burned out?? Where was lamp. "Needed it elsewhere"

Needless to say a third pump and second diesel engine were never purchased. Only person who I could trust was Dang, an extremely large but friendly dog.

Pom song satang

OOPPSS

Double quote, sorry

Pom song satang

'People have also been warned not to come in contact with dead poultry'

From now on, all KFC will be served live, bite the head off before consuming your meal

Bird flu is at an epidemic level in Patong! I woke up this morning, my bird flu and took all my money

Well done, brought a smile to my face.

Have had quite a few birds flu in morning. Must of been fit enough to hold the bhat in their beaks when they 'flu'

Remember an old saying

"If you take in a starving dog and a starving man, feed them both, give shelter and warmth.

You will always have a friend who will look after you with affection".

As for the starving man, keep yer eye on him?? He is the one that might bite that hand that feeds him?

Good on you Kufki, good karma will no doubt come your way.

Admittedly the boders were drawn up by the French in the days when elephants were the main means of transport, but these border disputes with Cambodia are spats engineered by the PAD and Yellow Shirts to divert attention from the real issue of povert and a lack of government spending to deal with it. . If Gen Prayuth is now using the issue as a 'shop window' to get more weapons, then one becomes even more suspicious about the motives for these border diputes. 1.5% of GDP is pretty standard for the region: The Phillipines spends 0.8%, Indonesia 1%, Cambodia, perhaps significantly spends1.1%, So 1.5% seems more than enough and of course the last time the Thai miiltary fired its weaponry in anger was at its own people, so maybe they have enough guns already

Yellow shirts causing problems?? Wash your mouth out?

No doubt the pro yellow TV members will say, "Not good Pad guys. It's those trouble making red's wearing yellow shirts, that is who they are"

Agree with what you say. ditto

You poke a dog with a stick it bites you back.

You say to everyone as you go to hospital. "Only have a stick, he has big teeth not fair".

Moral or lesson?

Leave sleeping dogs alone may be the best way forward. But maybe the status of a victim and sympathy is your intention

Have spent a lot of time around Israelis, even working for them. They had all done their military training in/under various guises.

TV posters should rememeber it is only colour and religion that seems to seperate people. But some posters are ant-semitic I feel and that is raciscim?

The Israelis I worked for were not amongst the friendliest or warmest people I have ever met?

But, they had a couple of "never again" attitudes, that I could understand.

One, was that there would never be another exodus or Holacaust?? (Masada again??)

Two, if we were being overun, all Muslim places of worship would be fields of glass beads. (Nuclear strikes??)

Point two is maybe why the Saudis wanted Irans nuclear facilities "Taken care of"...... (Willeaks, internet cables)?

Pom song satang?

I work 4 weeks on/off ofshore so in and out of the airport (Swampy) regulary. During my 4wks off I go back to the UK for 6 nights.

So think I can comment on visitors coming through immigration.

They are down, year on year for the same period.

You only need to look at the aircraft stands, 33-40% occupancy and how many are transit.

One of my flights 'in' is from Hong Kong, continues to London. Other flight 'in' continues to Seoul?

Save up my fastrack passes now since you can get through immigration in 15 minutes tops.

No gangs of guys from UK, Europe ...Scandanavia??

Year on year house rents asked for have risen but my offers (They get taken) get lower per se?

4 years ago I would of been paying 45,000bt a month for my villa. Have just renewed the lease for another year, they agreed 24,000 per month straight away.

There is not so much money going around, not so many westerners?

The eyes do not lie. ............ I think

The numerous painful shots that you refer to are history. Nowadays its an initial jab followed by a series of jabs (in the upper arm) every couple of weeks or so.

Were bitten by a dog in Port Harcourt, Nigeria.

Had the tetanus in the arm but had 6 injections over the abdominal wall, one a day.

The pain was in the bruising it left since the serum is injected as you withdraw the syringe. You could barely bend over to wipe your bum and your stomach was a patchwork of yellow, blue and brown bruising.

Ahhhh the good old days. Wire brush and dettol

Do not wish to multi quote but one item I have not seen raised/posted is the "Oslo Accords" signed by Rabin and Arafat.

This gave Arafat 95% of his demands, these being:

1) The return of refugees

2) Freeing of selected political/criminal prisoners.

3) Abandoning of settlements, freeze on building.

4) Sharing of Jeruselem.

5) withdrawl of all military forces from Gaza.

6) Gaza and West bank self rule.

7) International airport could in Gaza could re-open

There were many, many others that Rabin signed up too, in doing so he signed his own death warrant. Later a right wing israeli shot and killed him.

Arafat signed the accords in Oslo, offered his hand to Rabin (Rabin was uncomfortable, see TV footage) and shook his hand.

Everyone thought it was peace at last.

Saudi, Egypt and Jordan expressed their own satisfaction on the accords, Saudi offered aid on a large scale.

Arafat went back to Gaza and for whatever his reasons changed his mind and launched the childrens Infinatda.

This prompted the saying.

"Peace"? "Arafat never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

The rest we all know, Israel quoting Arafat turned their backs on the accords, but they still pulled their forces out of Gaza.

Do not wish to multi quote but one item I have not seen raised/posted is the "Oslo Accords" signed by Rabin and Arafat.

This gave Arafat 95% of his demands, these being:

1) The return of refugees

2) Freeing of selected political/criminal prisoners.

3) Abandoning of settlements, freeze on building.

4) Sharing of Jeruselem.

5) withdrawl of all military forces from Gaza.

6) Gaza and West bank self rule.

7) International airport could in Gaza could re-open

There were many, many others that Rabin signed up too, in doing so he signed his own death warrant. Later a right wing israeli shot and killed him.

Arafat signed the accords in Oslo, offered his hand to Rabin (Rabin was uncomfortable, see TV footage) and shook his hand.

Everyone thought it was peace at last.

Saudi, Egypt and Jordan expressed their own satisfaction on the accords, Saudi offered aid on a large scale.

Arafat went back to Gaza and for whatever his reasons changed his mind and launched the childrens Infinatda.

This prompted the saying.

"Peace"? "Arafat never misses the chance to miss an opportunity"

The rest we all know, Israel quoting Arafat turned their backs on the accords, but they still pulled their forces out of Gaza.

When you read the above. (If quoted and translated correctly) You realise the paranoia of Israel.

Hezbolla is a partner in the lebanese coalition goverment.

But.

Speak of war as if they are goverment.

Speak of no arrests of their members by the "goverment"

Speak of cutting the hands (Okay silence)those that disagree with them or advocate other action/means?

We cannot say that the arabs are crazy, just remember European history??

Hiler was guilty of all three above.

Stalin was guilty of the last.

Worked with Israelis a number of years ago, found them a bit arrogant, very focused on the task and determined to succed/win.

Always said if israel was going down in any war with the arabs, there would be no places of Islamic worship left in the Middle East. They would all be radioactive fields of glass.

Where are the cries of condemation of these outpourings from the free world.

If a coalition member in the Knesset spoke in the same manner, there would be ambassadors called to explain in capitals around the world.

Double standards.

Ok. Let's look at what you write and what you claim;

Paranoia? Yes. I think the Israeli culture is distinguished by that. It is a product of being under attack 24/7. It is a product of a large part of its population being refugees from arab lands where they were persecuted, expelled, exploited etc. You see all those black people in Israel? You know where they come from? Ethiopia and Yemen. They were airlifted out after the jewish community raised the money to pay for their blood ransom. Do you think those Ethiopians hold happy memories? Do you think the Egyptian and Tunisians that had lived in their arab countries for centuries, think back with joy when they remember being given 24-72 hours to leave and having to give up all of their possessions.

What do you expect people that would be going into war say? We hope that when we lose the victors will treat us nicely? We hope that when we are successful in defending our nation that we will then embrace the people that sought to kill us? Does anyone going into battle utter niceties? The difference with the Israeli forces is that despite their victories they have yet to go into major cities and turn them into glass. When they had surrounded the Egyptians in 1956 did they massacre them? No they allowed them to surrender and return to Egypt. When the arab attackers came close to over running Israel and defeating the country, did the Israelis turn Damascus, or Bahgdad or Amman to rubble? No they did not. Now contrast that to how the arabs have waged war. The Iraqis gassed the Iranians, When the Sysrians went to war with each other other amd massacred 35,000 of their own, they bulldozed the city. They lined up unarmed combatants and executed them. Look up the Hama massacre. To date the only people that have attempted to turn any country to glkass were the Iraqis when they fled Kuwait setting fire to the oil facilities causing an environmental catstrophe. They also looted everything they could. When the Jordanians expelled the arabs that call themselves Palestinians, they weren't too concerned with civil rights were they? What you heard from the Israelis was bravado to steel their nerves. That's all.

If you read my post again you will see that I am a tacit supporter of Israel, can see the good, bad warts and all.

Cannot understand why some posters are anti-semitic.

If Israelis have no right to the land of there forebearers then the are entitled to it by force of arms.

If that is not acceptable then the German/Polish/Russian borders need looking at and we better restore Prussia?? Then Californian and Texan inhabitants better brush up their spanish.

It is not going to happen? Israel is a reality that has to be recognised by all in the Middle East.

The palestinians are kept locked in Gaza just as much by the Egyptians (Remember the Egyptian wall blown up by Hamas) as Israelis.

Why????

The ruling party/goverment is classed as a terrorist organisation that wants the destruction of Israel, also supports the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt. (They killed Pres' Sadat remember?) It is difficult to talk with someone who wants you, your family and nieghbours dead.

It happened once before to the jews....... called the Holucaust.

The Jews will do more than another Masada if it looks like happening again

myabe living on a remote island some where in Thailand with a long beard now and going by the name of Friday

Man Friday was the native, Robinson Crusoe was the guy with the beard. Sarcasm is better if the facts are correct

When you read the above. (If quoted and translated correctly) You realise the paranoia of Israel.

Hezbolla is a partner in the lebanese coalition goverment.

But.

Speak of war as if they are goverment.

Speak of no arrests of their members by the "goverment"

Speak of cutting the hands (Okay silence)those that disagree with them or advocate other action/means?

We cannot say that the arabs are crazy, just remember European history??

Hiler was guilty of all three above.

Stalin was guilty of the last.

Worked with Israelis a number of years ago, found them a bit arrogant, very focused on the task and determined to succed/win.

Always said if israel was going down in any war with the arabs, there would be no places of Islamic worship left in the Middle East. They would all be radioactive fields of glass.

Where are the cries of condemation of these outpourings from the free world.

If a coalition member in the Knesset spoke in the same manner, there would be ambassadors called to explain in capitals around the world.

Double standards.