englishoak

8 minutes ago, connda said:

Actually?  No worry.  If the app is created in Thailand - it won't work most of the time.

Actually when I arrived in Thailand mobiles were rare and it cost £10 per minute to call the UK and the live was terrible...and that was only 20 years ago.. now its free, connection is perfect and not having one is rare. 

To begin with sure, it might not even be this app but over time tech will make it happen easier and cheaper and better and thats that. 

Dont be worried just realise itll just keep going in the same direction.  

SIMS btw will be linked to your ID in the future ????  be happy if your old and a bit of a tracking rebel because we will likely be the last ones to be able to enjoy it. 

8 minutes ago, tingtongfarang said:

Can you explain what happens to people like myself who have a smart phone but no data plan? Also often when going out i never think to take my phone.

Im the same, im hoping just like you it will take time but its not hard to take the old phones off the market or unable to connect to a system. True they wont be able to force you to carry one but when you cant buy anything or get anywhere without using a digital id or phone the vast majority will have no choice but to comply, as I said tracking and ability to pay will end up inside the body in the future anyway, a simple nano/holo tattoo is already being touted and the tech already exists. 

We will be able to run for while but there is no longterm hiding for those who will be moving around or trying to operate in society. I wish it were otherwise but its sadly a given now. 

It should be clear to everyone by now people will be made to comply, it may take a while yet but it wont be hard. if theres a will to do so, especially in places like Thailand it WILL happen. This is what id do,  make an app just like a tm card, youll be on the plane already and once landing itll be available to download in the airport and a requirement on entry prior to getting through immigration. To do it to the population one way would be to make it a legal requirement by mobile providers to provide the app at a level of the id and data contract. Im sure there are other simple methods and its only going to get easier to sync where you are at all times.

The only people it might e hard to track are those with a simple dumb phone but that % is going down every year so even that is a diminishing demographic.. in 20 years the tech will be inside the human body mark my words.

And dont think Thailand's incompetent leadership wont be able to because it will simply buy and install the tech required just like it does everything else. And 5 g will only make it easier. 

Not that there will be anywhere in the developed world that wont be doing the same,  Enjoy your time of privacy because in the future there will be very little. And to those born in the future it will be 100% normal and all they will know... cant miss what youve never had and today will just become another history lesson of how strange and dumb people were in the early 21st century who resisted it.... 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 There is no problem with my figures. The problem is your failure to understand them. Only you know if that failure is deliberate or not.

 

Here are those figures again.

 

In England and Wales between April 2018 and March 2019, there were 4 stop and searches for every 1,000 White people, compared with 38 for every 1,000 Black people (source) 

 

In England and Wales 50% of those arrested following a stop were White, 19% were Black (source).

 

Yes, it is true that Black people are disproportionately represented in UK prisons; but these figures show that racially profiled stop and search is not responsible for placing very many of them there!

 

 

Bull, its because one group are more likely to commit crime than another, its as simple as that... knife crime is now almost exclusively the same demographic.. its just a fact and its the same in most western countries not just here, those  at the bottom are more likely to commit crime, its not rocket science just the truth lower education and lower wages and standard of living groups have more crime. Its been that way forever. 

Its also about age, the young are far more likely to get stopped and searched, why ? because they are the ones doing the crime and most of the drug dealing and most of the knife crime and the gang street crime. The police were stopping the young 50 years ago and beating on them then and it was the lower classes then getting on the end of it. Inner cities have more crime and the ethnicity might have changed but thats all it is..

Can bang on about the police being racist all you want.. they are basically anti crime and profiling gets results. They have always had polices targeting those demographics more likely to commit crimes colour is a secondary factor,  the young, and the poorer areas are a perfect example, thats nothing new, its the racial demographics that have changed in the UK not the police. 

19 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Let's work your comments through: 

I dont have the virus and if I knew I did id stay at home, but im not wearing a nosebag in case I might that is just BS

How do you know you are not infected? Are you regularly tested?  You cannot offer a guarantee that you would not infect others before it was discovered you were a carrier.

If you are so certain, would you be willing accept full liability for the physical injury and financial injury of those who you might infect?  A jail sentence for physical assault and a manslaughter charge for those who died along with  full financial indemnification for all losses suffered and the cost to the public health system.

 

TB kills more every year and has forever... wheres the mass investment there and they have had decades ?

There is massive annual spending on TB control, treatment and eradication.  it's in the billions of USD. More money has been spent on  TB than SARS, MERS and  Ebola research.

TB is a scourge in poor countries. Although still present in wealthier parts of the world, TB does not disrupt national economies as Covid 19 does.  The August 3 edition of the Lancet  had this report;

Total spending on tuberculosis in 135 low-income and middle-income countries increased annually by 3·9% (95% CI 3·0 to 4·6), from $5·7 billion (5·2 to 6·5) in 2000 to $10·9 billion (10·3 to 11·8) in 2017. 

That's nothing to dismiss. More importantly, there are still successful treatments available. No one in  wealthier countries has to die because there is no treatment available.

 

Yes,  contaminated drinking water is a serious concern, but again it does not disrupt the international economy the way Covid 19 does. Millions of people in South America cannot access clean drinking water but it isn't stopping you from traveling to and from thailand is it? 

 

The  reality is that if a few thousand kids  die of starvation in Zimbabwe or thousands die because of war in Yemen, no one really cares because it can be contained to another place, out of sight and out of mind.  very different from Covid19 which is an equal opportunity messenger of suffering and ruin.

 

You have been spared the ravages of Covid19 because other people have engaged in responsible and prudent behavior. Your luck will  eventually run out if you continue to undermine those efforts.

 

What do you know about the  physical impact of Covid19? Your position requires that the infection inflict no long term damage. Well, we are now seeing that it does. In the USA, the  universities  have suspended their football season because they are observing inflamed hearts in too many young people who had Covid19.  The patients should recover, but it will take months. In the USA, there were 90 pediatric deaths due to Covid19. This was during the suspension of classes. What do you think will happen once classes resume?  The US CDC has now stated that it believes that Covid 19 will be the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 (after cancer and heart disease).

 

It's wonderful that you have such an indepth knowledge of the infection.  you dismiss  elderly people as expendable.  Go tell that to the millions of people who lost their parents.  Your attitude is  ageist and discriminatory.  A 70 year old today is often as active and as contributing to society as a 50 year old was in 1960.

 

It's not the old people who are causing the  economic issues. Rather it is the 40-60 year olds who are most likely to be infected now. When they go down, the economy and families really suffer. Try and run a family unit when the mother or father  is taken out of action, especially if it is a one parent family or that parent is the primary caregiver for others.

 

Why not just be honest and recognize that you are selfish and care only about your personal comfort and needs? This is what it is all about  selfishness.

The only thing preventing me from travelling to Thailand is the Thai government nothing else. I have travelled all over the globe to many regions where risks are high and numerous disease is rampant, fear of what I determine are acceptable risks never stopped me doing anything. Have they eradicated TB ? nope and your wrong about waterborne disease, it can be transmitted when people move around. The worlds a dangerous place, heck living in Thailand is far more a risk to ones health than back in the UK but an acceptable risk imo, we can agree on that obviously. 

I absolutely recognise i care primarily about my personal comfort and needs and my family, everyone does and saying anything else is a lie. A 70 year old is usually retired and dosnt run business or have employees and hopefully have children grown and in work. I do not have the luxury of a pension yet or a sugar daddy, I work, employ others and have responsibilities I have to balance with making a living,  i fully expect to contract the virus at some point. You seem to forget that 90% or more infected get mild to little symptoms, it is a very very small minority that is at high risk. It would make far more sense to protect those at highest risk and let the rest get on with life paying the taxes keeping business running and employees in work. Ring fence and isolate the risk groups, old and infirm etc by all means but the rest need to get back to life asap. Unforeseen casualties are normal and regrettable but thats life.  

For every serious case highlighted and paraded on the media there are hundreds of thousands who have little problems and recover fast, no ones making headlines about that though as it dosnt sell the fear and that is just the documented cases, according to the models and estimates there are probably millions of others who wont ever know they have had it...but they will have antibodies and like all the rest of the viruses herd immunity will and is the most effective longterm solution, I do not believe in the vaccine claims as being practical or likely effective, I do believe in our immune systems to adapt and overcome, yes people die and its regrettable but thats a guarantee in life, its only a question of how and when, I do not spend my time worrying about it for myself so no i dont concern myself about the world in general either, if that makes me selfish then so be it, the world does not have time for me nor I in general for it. This is how life really is and I do not pretend otherwise just because the media and propaganda says to now. My life is not yours or any others to command, I simply reject living my life on others terms. 

I get you have bought into the hysteria and fear the virus, many have and do whereas I havnt and do not... I fully expect to contract it at some point and will deal with it when I do, at that point I will isolate and almost certainly recover but your wrong about being selfish, on the contrary im being realistic, you cant and imo shouldnt try to protect 100% for 1% at risk, they could put all resources into ring fencing the most at risk, that would make sense to me rather than destroying entire industries and economies.  More will die and have lives destroyed from the measures than the virus in the longrun imo  The faster people get used to living a normal life as possible despite the virus the faster the world gets back on its feet..

Btw im not ageist in the slightest, im in my mid 50s and have family and friends in their 70s to 90s, most are pragmatic and accepting this is just another thing that might kill them but getting on with life as best they can despite the madness and panic going on out there. I dont see myself or views as selfish, just realistic and stoic. 

I am going to assume your post 70 from the way your talking, I wish you well and long life but I will not live my life on your or anyones elses terms or demands because your scared of something that I am not, that to me is the height of entitled selfishness. 

Have a good evening

Lifes a risk. get on with it. 

1 minute ago, micmichd said:

Yes, I know. 

We face the common cold and flu from Europe every winter. And that's probably one of the reasons why Thais get immune so fast. 

 

In Thailand I don't drive although I have a driving licence. My Thai lady drives. And she never made any accident in the roads so far. 

Thais get immune to what the flu or colds from Europe ? ridiculous. You think colds and flu come out of Europe ? nope new strains mostly originate in Asia not Europe. Most influenza viruses that infect humans seem to originate in parts of Asia https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/where-do-influenza-viruses-originate-and-how-do-they-mutate

Do you have any idea how many get fever and colds in Thailand every rainy season ? literally millions. I personally know 5 Thais who have lost family members to flu, pneumonia and fever, 2 were under 20. I dont know the figures that die annually but they arnt immune I can assure you. The same could be said for those working in hospitals. its really  a high risk job, not including C19 the number who contract serious illness at work and the number who die because of it is actually quite staggering, life is a risk. 

I rode Motorbikes all the time while living In Thailand knowing full well the risks, ive had my spills I just never let what "could" hurt me from living my life as I choose. I hope you continue to stay safe on the roads, just remember others on the road arnt your wife. ????

Guys a fool.. but lets not play mob rules by coming here setting up an account just because  "muh feels"

Back in the 90s to early 2000s silver was big thing in Thailand  silver shops everywhere, half the khaosan rd shops were selling silver jewellery and lots of silver smiths abounded all over the kingdom, so there was a lot of raw silver availability for industrial/jewellery use, you could buy reels of the stuff in different finesse and thickness and i could have taken you to dozens of silversmiths using it,  but not investment bars apart from some Chinese ones. Surin silver was truly awful quality but good for resale. Silver Thai style rope/amulet Chains were a thing so were amulet cases and one off bracelets and custom work, this was usually by far the highest quality silver when we tested it and easier to resell, so thats what we kept as an investment while running as silver import export business back in the day, its the only way we found to invest in silver in Thailand I doubt its changed much.

A Thai friend has been collecting/investing in Thai silver jewellery since the 90s and has literally hundreds of kilos of the stuff, naturally hes an expert at testing the grade and always buys just over or at spot, He also has a nice collection of coins and bars from all around the world but very little bought in Thailand.  As as others have said investment coins/bars just isnt a thing in Thailand  

25 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I don't know about any of the others, but the Oxford University and Modena candidate vaccines are undergoing phase 3 testing on tens of thousands of people each, in the USA. The Moderna vaccine trial involves 30,000 people in the US and the Oxford trial aims for 50,000 participants worldwide (it's also being tested in the UK, Brazil, South Africa and India).

 

Oxford, Moderna vaccine phase 3 trials

 The experimental mRNA-1273 vaccine works by injecting a small sample of COVID-19's genetic code into patients. The amount is enough to encourage a response from the immune system,  neutralising antibodies were found in the first eight people who took part in early safety trials. However, of the eight none were over the age of 50. There is no current information of  phase 3 trails covering age or testing on people with other existing conditions.. 

As most terminal patients to CV19 are over the age of 50 AND have pre existing conditions it would be logical to trail it on those demographics most likely at risk to see if there is any underying issues.. not that i can see them trailing it on unhealthy people and thats the rub... they are the ones most at risk and the highest death rate by far... if someone is on existing medications how would it/ could it react or interact with the vaccine, what other side affects might  it set off etc etc. The variables to me seem insanely high to roll out as safe... just cos big pharma says its cool whilst having total immunity to any prosecutions  dosnt somehow fill me with comfort

The world has been changed forever, it will not be allowed to return to the previous paradigm even if they had a 100% vaccine out tomorrow. Thailands days as a top tourist destination for the world is done... its not coming back along with many other nations tourism reliance

A vaccine will not eradicate it, that isnt the aim, never been possible with any Corona or Rhino virus and almost certainly isnt with this one... 60% effective and antibodies with an undetermined effective time limit isnt immunity at all... living with another potentially dangerous virus is not a big deal, but its supposed to be because it scares people into doing and putting up with things they would never otherwise tolerate.. 

We were always going to end up having to live with the virus, its been well documented there would be one, the plandemic and global responses are working just as they are supposed to. 

People do not matter, agendas do. Never waste a good crisis 

10 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

 

I maintain that the current large covid-19 incidence rates are largely due most people not wearing the correct type of mask. Most people should be wearing respirator style masks for self-protection. Most are actually wearing cheap, paper medical/surgical masks that where designed protect others, but not necessarily the wearer. You never see the various types of mask discussed anywhere except the one I found in a WHO pdf file. Also not seen is authorities requiring masks to check which type of mask people are wearing because the respirator type mask, unless it has an exhale filter (most don't) will not stop anything from being exhaled by the wearer. This is, IMHO, a critical and potentially deadly difference between the two types of masks.

 

Also, many people are not wearing even the cheap, paper medical/surgical masks correctly by not covering the nose. I'd bet that 50% or so of mask wearers do so only grudgingly as the comment by englishhoak, above,  suggests. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at any of this given the level of education and critical thinking the world seems to have deteriorated to.

 

 

 

This is what I meant by stupid useless rules that are obviously half baked.  Of course there is a huge difference between a face rag and a stage 3 filter system with a proper seal, I have used plenty of most types and all manner of PPE because in my work over the years ive been required to and trained to know the difference. What works mostly all depends on the micron size and type of filter required  for what environment and most importantly the seal quality, a simple lab technician, construction or bodyshop worker knows this basic stuff and also know face bags/coverings people are to wear are useless. Now im semi retired I have a full beard so even a stage 3 is ineffective so for me its either shave or use a full mask and filter system, as im not in a risk category im not doing either for a non lethal virus. If anyone bothered to learn anything about masks or ever used a proper exhale filter or unit in a polluted or gaseous/dusty toxic environment they would understand and think again about using a nosebag, but most here do not nor care.. they just blindly follow the rules mostly out of ignorance or to feel like they are helping and to be in the herd group think, obviously silly rules are only there for social control reasons so I will not comply.  . . As you say critical thinking is sparce these days. ...

9 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Do you think to "phone the missis" is the only use of a "smartphone"? Perhaps, you should educate yourself on the various uses of them, especially as an internet access device and a plethora of other uses as well. To not be aware of the uses and to make a comment as you have is a good example of "willful ignorance", IMHO. Admittedly, you did confess to being a "neanderthal", yes? You know what happened to them don't you? Incidentally, do you carry even a "dumb" phone while out or do you absolutely refuse to adjust to the 21^st century. 

 

Incidentally, I don't carry a "smartphone" either, (I carry a "dumb" one) but I am more or less fully aware of their potential - I just don't want it when I'm out since I'm on the internet virtually around the clock on my laptop in my apartment.

 

I do fear the time when a "smartphone" would be required to function in society, which seems to be creeping up on us. Hopefully, I won't be around to experience that.

 

 

That time is just around the corner my friend. 5 years away at best imo for most countries.  I was in India in 2016 when they cancelled most of the currency and switched over to QR code payments, it has not gone back since and a smartphone is almost a necessity there already to be able to function properly.  I mostly only carry a dumb phone when I go out, I like to minimise my reliance on tech and having grown up without so find it no trouble at all. 

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

Thats certainly a great leap from just having to wear a mask. Enjoy your life in the bunker without it.

I dont have to live in a bunker, I just legally dont comply with silly rules and adapted life accordingly some time ago so I dont have to and sure glad I did. besides ive been all over the world more than a few times and enjoyed it all when everywhere was still an adventure, fun and affordable, ive no big regrets in my life I hope you dont in yours.  Live your life in ignorance and compliance by all means, but thats not for me.

This is for those out there thinking your nosebag wearing make a real difference.  

35 minutes ago, ezzra said:

it will probably mandatory to be vaccinated whether you like it or not, i believe that people who will refuse vaccination will have problems in maintaining normal lifestyle for the benefits of society as a whole nevermind that you will be branded as a selfish and an incompetent person...

Unfortunately this is the most likely future, it will just sideline and expunge those not conforming, the social media and group think bores will do the rest. 

I am pretty sure things will become far far more draconian and dystopian than most can imagine atm... im pretty sure international tourism and the average holiday abroad anywhere they wish is going to become extinct if not already.  

I made my plans years ago so we wouldnt become separated as a family, glad I did too.. I dont expect to be  visiting Thailand ever again  tbh... sad but thats life.

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The only people I see spreading fear are those who are protesting for their rights to do what they want and projecting their fear by accusing anyone else who conforms to government advice of being a sheeple. 

 

I see you are using the world population increase as mitigation to any losses of life in this pandemic, I would take a closer look if you want to use that. The are serious problems to come and not because of COVID but this virus will not help. Many countries populations are predicted to half in size.

 

Japan's population is projected to fall from a peak of 128 million in 2017 to less than 53 million by the end of the century.

Italy is expected to see an equally dramatic population crash from 61 million to 28 million over the same timeframe.

They are two of 23 countries - which also include Spain, Portugal, Thailand and South Korea - expected to see their population more than halve.

"That is jaw-dropping," Prof Christopher Murray told me. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

I have zero issues with people living lives following gov rules and regulations, that is entirely upto them. It is when those people insist or demand mine conforms and aligns with theirs i take issue.   

Yes im aware of that study, except that wont begin to happen in earnest for the next 30 years. I found it funny, obvious and of no concern, Russia is already addressing it and other countries by encouraging larger families, which upsets the apple cart of the population reductionists there will always be something to panic people over. 

Everyone harping on about not enough resource of this or that,  pollution is terrible blah blah, everyone using and consuming more makes things worse, eco destruction yet on the other side global affluence is a good thing, living longer must be pursued, modern medicine, eradicating disease, abortion is a right, fertility control is a good thing, choosing to be non heterosexual is encouraged, a decent standard of living is expected.. well these things might seem great and logical complaints or aims and they are in themselves but ... much of it turns out to be in direct opposition to the other and there are always consequences  .. a population reduction "should" be good news to most worried about the state of the planet but when you look at the consequences in many ways it isnt.  We cant have everything on both sides of the fence, not unless we get off this ball of mud very soon. 

I fully expect population reduction to become the new fear over the next few decades and i wont worry about that any more than I will the plagues that will continue to manifest. Nature restores the balance one way or another. 

Be real cool of people would stop trying to control the lives of others based on what they want or beliefs..