Beck1976

Im about to apply for a one year extension of my visa, based on marriage, with 400k in bank to prove financial situation.

I had the money in my account since 19th January. Will I be able to apply tomorrow 20th March? That should be 60 days exactly, but perhaps it need to be more than 60 days? It is Phuket immigration.
Normally I would obviously just wait a few days to be sure, but a family emergency have come up, and my wife need to go back home, as soon as she can.

You also need to make sure it can handle your weight. Some exercise machines have a max weight of 80 kg for instance.

With a 20k budget, you should be able to get a strong, sturdy machine, though.

Darasamuth is around 100k/year for EP.

Our experience with the English Programme and the farang teaching staff have been very good.

17 hours ago, Sophon said:

I had exactly the same thing happen Monday night/Tuesday morning, almost 80 debet transactions of Baht 34.15 each on my Bangkok Bank debit card. I have never used the card online or to pay for anything in the shops, the only time the card have been used is in Bangkok Bank ATMs to withdraw money. The only way anyone would have been able to get my card details is if they worked in the bank or in the company producing the cards or have hacked into the bank/card company's systems. 

 

The officer at the bank informed me that the transactions was from Google's payment systems and originated in a game named Garena.

Garena is a company that makes games. One of their very popular games is called Freefire ( a clone of Fortnite) and is all the rage among Thai youth. 

Next year my oldest son will be going to M1. Got told today that some schools require the applicants to be registered in a Tabien Baan for that local area?

In my case, its Satree in Phuket Town, and we would then need to find a local where he could get registered.

Is there any truths to that? And if so, are there any workarounds? What do people do, if they dont live in Phuket Town, but other places on the island?

7 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t get the wife to get a loan from the bank ? The banks are as shady as the west and will give anyone with a pulse a loan as long as money is going in and out of their bank . 

She have had extremely low activity on her account for several years, so not an option.

Furthermore, big difference between paying off the house in interest-free installments over 5 years, compared to borrowing the entire sum, and paying interest to the bank,

But for future reference, are you saying, that as long as money is coming in and going out, she could be eligible for a loan, despite not holding a job (and therefore no pay-slips etc)? So I could send her 50.000 every month, she would withdraw it over the course of the month, use it for our regular expenses, and then repeat every month, and then she would qualify?

On 2/13/2021 at 12:21 AM, MadMuhammad said:

I recently purchased a property under ‘owner finance’

We paid a 3mil deposit on a 5mil property (discounted from 6.5). We attended the land office and the chanote was registered in my wife’s name with the finance stipulation recorded on the back. We also signed a contract that laid out the finance, 30K a month over 3 years with 3-5% interest and a final payment of 1.08mil and loss of rights with 60 day default of payment. 
We were sure to do due diligence with a reputable lawyer before going ahead. 

So after some talk back and forth with the seller, we came to an agreement.

Downpayment now, monthly installments for a year, at which point, we pay out the mortgage he has, and the chanote is transferred to my wifes name. After that we would still pay 50 monthly installments.

I found the risk acceptable this way.

The plan was to have his lawyer draw up a contract, I would then run it by my guy, just to make sure everything was ok.

We had a quick meeting with them, and despite knowing nothing about our financials, his lawyer was afraid, we wouldnt be able to make the payments. The seller had no concerns about it at all.

However, we have now been noticed, that according to his lawyer, it simply cant be done this way. That the chanote cant be transferred untill all payments are done. Not that the lawyer advised against it, but simply "cannot make such contract!"

I find that odd? It is a simple payment plan, with amounts and dates for both payments and transfer of ownership all determined and agreed upon.

Are there any actual reason why such a contract cant be made?

Or is it just the lawyer, who is either making up his own rules or advising the seller against it, and the seller then presents it as a rule?

Once again, thank you all for the replies, I am very grateful.

Quote

 

Q: I believe we would stand a good chance of recovering our money, as he owns a few more properties (at present time debt free, although that can change of course).

 

A: I am sure the seller and his family are honourable people and that you will have no problems at all.

 

I obviously dont expect him to be a bad actor, but just trying to get a grasp of what we possibly could be facing.

Quote

 

Q: Exactly how would that lien protect us? We would be able to block any further encumbrances on the property.

 

A: No, because you would not have a mortgage. You would have a different type of encumbrance, which would allow the owner in some circumstances to place other types of encumbrance against the property without your consent.

 

So even with a lien, our claim would be different, than a bank holding a mortgage? Could he obtain further debt (mortgage the house again)? Or are you referring to leases, usufructs and similar? 

Quote

 

Q: ...as well as preventing him from selling it?

 

A: You cannot stop the owner selling their property. They do not need your consent to do so, but they must repay you any money owed before the sale is officially recorded. If you refuse to accept the money or you are not available the owner can pay the full sum to the land office who will keep the money until you claim it from them.

 

If your encumbrance is for 1 million, but towards the end of the contract you have paid 3 million in total, the owner can pay you 1 million, sell the property and keep the additional payments of 2 million. You would have to pay to take the owner to Court for the 2 million and hope they had any assets left to claim against after the Court case was finally completed.

 

So if we had a contract, stating that he had agreed to sell the house to us, and the encumbrance were related to that, if he insisted on selling it to a third party, we would have to take him to court, if we wanted him to honor the original contract. Could he still sell the property while the court proceedings was going on? 

This is relevant to me, as I believe we buy it at a good price (partly due to him wanting to pay of other debt, and partly covid), but the property could potentially be worth more in 3-4 years, but before the payments are finalized and the deed is in my wifes name.

Basically, if we after 4 years have paid 3 million (out of a total price of 3.5 million), and he happened to find a buyer who wanted to pay 4.5 million, then what? Would the sale be obstructed until it was settled in court? or would he still be able to sell it, and the very best we could hope for (after potentially years of court appearances and associated costs), was to recover the 3 million paid?

21 hours ago, khunPer said:

About deed registration and ownership 

To my experience and knowledge, a title deed cannot be transferred to a new registered owner, before all debt and interest declared as servitude (i.e. mortgage) has been fully paid.

 

In theory you, or rather your wife, owns nothing. You have an agreement with the seller, and if anything goes wrong it’s a question of taking the seller to court and claim compensation.

 

So it’s a question of thrust between the parties – the bank holding the mortgage servitude will act accordingly to the law – however, often people are trustworthy, but you don’t have a guarantee; i.e. what if the owner dies and you are going to negotiate with heirs about “your home”?

 

The best way would be to pay off the mortgage, and fully pay the seller for the property, move the title deed to your wife’s name, and obtain a new mortgage registered as servitude. This might also be what you are used to from your home country, so it is in my home country. The bank will normally hold the title deed, and in principle the bank is the owner of the property, as the bank might also have a power of attorney to move the title; i.e. when you have a mortgage, you don’t really own your home, but isn't that’s how it is almost all over the World?

 

About land occupying public area 

Concerning some of the land being on public land, which might cause a problem in the future, it might also widely depend on how it’s locally handled, and other external circumstances. In older time the land was not measured very correctly, and later upgrades to higher title deeds often changed the land borders, so when for example upgrading from Nor Sor Sarm-title to Chanote-title, the borderline could have been moved; the process could have been over a number of various titles from originally claiming land, or a family being granted land.

 

Snip...

Seller finance may happen in my home country rarely and then only for a small amount of the price, usually the remainder of what the mortgage and downpayment can cover. It is a safe way for the buyer though (although expensive), as the deed is transferred, and the seller is then holding a debt claim against the buyer.

Regarding occupying public land, Im fully aware that at any point they could claim it back, and we would lose the right to use it, I have factored that in to the price.

It is more the prospect of possibly being sued, and repercussions that worries me. The owners comment was "nobody have ever complained about it" and he seemed surprised that I actually found it to be a problem ????

Several other houses in the area have built just as close to the road, but whether they are outside their chanote, I dont know.

9 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

I recently purchased a property under ‘owner finance’

We paid a 3mil deposit on a 5mil property (discounted from 6.5). We attended the land office and the chanote was registered in my wife’s name with the finance stipulation recorded on the back. We also signed a contract that laid out the finance, 30K a month over 3 years with 3-5% interest and a final payment of 1.08mil and loss of rights with 60 day default of payment. 
We were sure to do due diligence with a reputable lawyer before going ahead. 

This is exactly, how I at first thought it would be done. Transfer of deed to my wife, and he would then hold a debt claim towards us, with the property as collateral.

7 hours ago, Pmbkk said:

 

If it doesn't feel right( too many ifs and buts that can't be answered) - it isn't.

 

Stop now and stop wasting time and effort.

So far I have gotten very informative answers to all my questions.

If nothing else, this is a great learning experience for me, how real estate transactions are done here, and which pitfalls there can be.

3 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

this is not really a good sign to me... someone w/financial problems is not someone I want to be doing business with.. even if it cost a bit more, can you get a bank loan, either here or back home? This sounds like someone I never want to see again... you have been renting from him for a long time, why doesn't he have money? 

I fully get your point, but find his situation "believable", in lack of better word.

He build a 4-unit apartment building, right next to his house, which was financed by selling another house 3 years ago, and then a smaller loan from family. He only got one tenant so far though, who recently moved in, at 9000/month I think. We are in one of the tourist villages on the west coast of Phuket, so a lot of vacancies due to Covid. We've been paying 15k/month, and both he and his wife are retired, so have been relying on rental income.

Despite sufficient networth and income, we have not been able to obtain a loan, unfortunately. My wife is a stay-at-home mom for many years, and I make my income primarily from rental income from Denmark. Thai banks wants us to work in Thailand, and Danish banks wants me to live and work within EU.

1 hour ago, KKr said:

could it be that a road improvement i.e. widening is upcoming ?

it have of course crossed my mind, but I dont think so. He have been asking us for several years, if we were interested in buying the property, but his asking price was way to high.

Furthermore, they have been putting in drainage between the road and the wall, this last year, for a long stretch of the road, so I doubt there are any plans to widen it. Also, there is not that much traffic, so a widening isnt necessary.

Finally, there is an electricity pole, that the wall was build around back then, that the electric company will move outside the wall beginning of next week.

Thank you all for the replies.

@DrJack54

Im only mid-forties, and the payment would be done in 6 years maximum, so I definitely hope Im still around by then.

The purchase price is 3.5 million fwiw. That is already an attractive price for the place, and since he was willing to do interest free installments, the effective price is even lower.

@1FinickyOne

For now Im just trying to understand the various risks, as this is the first time Im doing a RE purchase, where the seller arent paid in full right away. 

I was unable to mortgage a property I own in Denmark, as I havent lived or worked inside EU for many years now.

If international travel restrictons are lifted, we can pay the full amount in a year, but that is out of my control, so dont want to rely on that.

Furthermore he dont want to wait that long, as he need the downpayment to pay of debt to his family. 

@blackcab

I wasnt aware the court action would become more difficult. In that case I fully understand the primary mortgagor wont allow it.

The way you describe a normal land transaction is pretty much how I imagined it.
What I meant was, that in any case we would need to hand over a cheque for the amount of the existing mortgage, as well as the remaining sum. But since that will be in front of several witnesses, I can see how that will be completely safe.

I am willing to assume some risk, to make the deal happen, as long as I know what the risks are. While I would obviously hate ending up in court, I believe we would stand a good chance of recovering our money, as he owns a few more properties (at present time debt free, although that can change of course).

If we pay of the mortgage, assuming he still cooperates, we would then be able to place a lien on the house, for the amount we had paid, right? 
Exactly how would that lien protect us? We would be able to block any further encumbrances on the property, as well as preventing him from selling it?

Would we be in a better position, should he pass away? If he got divorced?

Would we need a property lawyer, or can it be done with just the seller and my wife present at the land office? And what kind of costs/taxes are associated with this?

I havent been able to find information, how its practically done.

Thank you in advance.

Thank you very much for the answers. 
Although i didnt get the answers I was hoping for ????

A couple of follow-up questions:
 

Quote

A: No. The property already has a mortgage registered in it, so no further encumbrance can be added without the permission of the original mortgagor. The original mortgagor will never agree to this.

Wouldnt our claim be registered as ranking second, and therefore not affect the primary mortgagors claim? Or is secondary/tertiary etc claims not really a thing here?

 

Quote

In addition, you would not get the chanote the same day you paid off his mortgage for him. The bank holds his chanote, and it would take a few days to get it back before your encumbrance could be placed on it. During that time you are completely at risk. In addition, the owner could simply refuse to register it

Wouldnt we run the same risk, if we paid the entire amount right away instead of installments? Either way, the mortgage needs to be paid of and the chanote released. 

My wife and I are considering purchasing the house, we are currently renting (for 8 years now). I am fully aware, that it will all be in her name, and I will have no claim, so by "we", legally everything is "her".

The owner have currently mortgaged the property at the local Islamic Bank. They hold a lien for about 50% of the discussed purchase price. Remaining debt is only 35% at the moment.

We have done a title deed search at the land office, there are no other liens or mortgages, and there is nothing to indicate problems with chain of ownership.

Downpayment would be 15% of the purchase price

The payment plan discussed is downpayment now, 6 years of monthly installments, and a final big payment at the end, to pay off the mortgage, and have the lien removed.

I, of course, want to make sure we cant get cheated.

As I understand it, the chanote will not be transferred to my wifes name, until the final payment is made. Is this normal procedure here with private financing? ( I had expected title transfer now, and he would then have a lien on the house as collateral)

In that case, what is the best way, we can protect ourselves? I want to make sure, that he is unable to either obtain additional mortgage (that would then have to be paid off, before a title transfer could be done), or outright selling it to someone else. We will of course have a contract regarding the deal, receipts for payments etc, but would obviously prefer to make it as difficult as possible for him to pull any tricks, should he have any ill intentions

Can we have a lien registered on the chanote, to "secure" our downpayment? Perhaps updated yearly to represent the additional monthly payments that have been made? How should we go about this?

He suggested that we could pay off the mortgage now, and then hold on to the original physical chanote (currently held by the Islamic bank), but I fail to see how it offers us much protection? I understand he need the original to sell the land, obtain mortgage etc. But if he approaches the land office, claims it have been lost in a fire, wouldnt they eventually issue him a new one? And the only way we would be informed about something like this, is if we have a claim registered on the chanote?

And if the Islamic Bank feel they need to hold on to the physical chanote, is it even  possible for us to register a lien? Ours would of course be secondary to theirs claim, but unsure how it would even be done practically.

Second issue, it turns out part of the driveway and garden is outside the area designated by the chanote (been like that for many, many years). It have been extended to close to the road so is encroaching on public land. So there is a change the local OrBaTor at some point will reclaim that part of the land, which I have factored in regarding the price. But are there any risks of a penalty or fee because of this? Or would we simply be ordered to tear down the wall, and then re-erect it within the correct chanote designated area?

All advice and comments welcome, let me know if more info is needed.

Thank you.

Im applying based on marriage, do they need the original tabien Baan, or just a signed copy of first page and wifes page?

Also, do I need to bring info regarding our kids (birthcertificate, tabien baan etc), or that wont matter?

And finally, will they still accept proof of funds, as a combination between my Thai bank and bank statement from my native country?

Sorry for the questions, tried calling the consulate today to make sure I had all the right paperwork, but couldnt get through.

On 5/25/2017 at 12:01 PM, ubonjoe said:

No

For a single entry non-o it is 200k baht. For a multiple entry it is 400k baht and/or proof of income.

Is the requirement still 200k for a single entry? Can only find up-to-date info regarding multi entry.

Thanks in advance.

Can anybody confirm whether the Thai consulate in Penang is open Wednesday 2nd January? Or are they taking a long weekend?

10 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

was told in Patong if landlord could NOT come in had to fill out a POA ( power of attorney) form and have a 10 baht Tax stamp on it. Like a Thai is going to give a poa form to a Farang     LOL

Do you just pay the 10 thb tax at the immigration office then?

Went back today with my landlord. After filling out some papers, and a 30 minute talk with the office boss, he was fined 1600 thb. He owns several properties, so whether he will be fined for each of them (or each tenant) I dont know.

He was told he could report online in the future, and got a pamphlet written in Thai, but the guy has never touched a PC, so that is not going to happen.

9 hours ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

If you are already registered at your residence  you only have to go to immigration with your passport , new departure card and the old registration slip for and update.

I definitely got the impression, that the landlord had to be present every time (if not doing it online). Can anybody confirm, whether bringing him was just a one time thing, and I can just do the registration myself in the future?

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Were you told you will have to pay?

No, there was no mention of any fine.

Went to the Patong office today to do my 90 day report, and was asked if I had registered my address. I informed them that was done 2 years ago in Phuket Town, reply was "has to do again, new rules from big boss". So I have to go back tomorrow with my landlord, and some more photocopies.

This is just meant as a heads up, as it is something relatively new (wasnt necessary 3 months ago), and isnt enforced everywhere, as far as I can tell.

Bonus info: I heard one of the immigration employees inform a foreigner that the address registration had to be done every time he came back to Thailand (he applied for a re-entry), and was living and working here (I assume he doesnt change address every time). I really hope she was just misinformed, otherwise they will be pretty busy making the same address registrations over and over.....

I am very interested as well, if somebody are willing to part with kefir grains. 
I am unsure whether same type of grain can be used for both milk and water kefir? I know I cant use the exact same grain changing them back and forth, but do I need two different kind of strains?

Just realized my TM6 is gone as well, pretty sure immigration misplaced during my last 90 day report 2 weeks ago (havent used my passport since). I dont have any plans to leave the country before extending my visa (non-o based on marriage). Could that cause problems with the extension?

I was waiting for a correct income statement from my embassy (they misspelled my name the first time), so wasnt sure, I would be able to go tomorrow. But luckily I received it a short while ago.

If I get prevented from going tomorrow (sick kids or whatever), I will go the 4th instead. Paying a small overstay fine is no issue, I was more worried, if I could be denied the extension for applying for it, after expiration?

Which days are the immigration offices closed around New Years?
 

One site said January 1-3 are public holidays. If thats the case, can I apply for extension on Jan 4 (my current permit to stay expires Jan 3)?

I will get the reentry tomorrow, was late for picking up the kids at school.