oldcpu

Indeed. .. and many of us have pointed out that Royal Decree 18 notes some DTAs can make some foreign income Thai tax exempt, implying not to be included in a Thai tax calculation ( obviously dependent on specific DTA wording) and hence since such DTA excluded income is exempt from the Thai tax calculation and hence since not to be included in a Thai tax return, it may even mean ( on absence of other assessable income) that no Thai tax return is required. The specific wording of the DTA with Thailand is very relevant and needs to be understood. Obviously this is my understanding. Others on this forum have very different views.

True, but read what it states about capital gains, where the article contradicts itself. .. contrary to por.161/162.

An interesting web site, but I believe a bit out of date in at least one place. For example it states: "Capital gains and investment income earned by a resident from sources outside Thailand are not taxable unless remitted to Thailand in the year of receipt." That is incorrect according to por.161/162. Further, some tax management aspects were not covered .. For example: The "gift" section fails to mention that a gift exemption is invalid if the gift is from a person in Thailand who is using in part the gift to benefit this person giving the gift. The DTA section is very slim at best, and it is the DTA aspects that most retired expats likely need to fully understand all nuances. The DTAs are very relevant in regards to tax management. On tax returns, it fails to note some income is not to be considered assessable per Royal Decree 18, and hence not included in a Thai tax calculation to assess whether a Thai tax return is required. This is very important and should not be overlooked, but yet it was overlooked. I believe the content associated with the link is in need of an update.

I didn't get the joke, however after your explanation it does read to be a good post.

"A lot of speculation" means there is a great deal of guessing or theorizing about something without sufficient evidence or knowledge. A very short research on that would have provided you with that answer.

You heard wrong. Bangkok and Chiang Rai have higher motorcycle road deaths than Phuket. I seriously doubt that. Some statistics for you : Thailand is #9 for road deaths globally, although it is #1 for motorcycle deaths. 80% of the Thai road deaths are motorcycle deaths. Less than 4% of those motorvycle deaths are foreigners The most affected age group is 18 to 29 year olds The deaths are predominantly male. Most who died weren't wearing a helmet. Now lets consider Phuket: Again. Bangkok and northeastern provinces ( such as Chiang Rai) have a larger amount of motorcycle road deaths. The point here is Taxi Mafia are not the cause of a high # of motorcycle road deaths in Phuket. And as noted, the "hold" of the taxi mafua has in the most part been broken as internet taxi booking apps is pushing them aside. Only in Patomg and to a lesser extent Kata and Karon do the taxi mafia still resort to violence and intimidation to try and monopolize on their expensive taxi service. And their hold there is no longer what it once was. However you also should know most expats don't need to use the taxi mafia nor motorcycles. Most expats have cars. So while the remaining taxi mafia can still be found in noted areas, most Phuket expats don't give the taxi mafia a second thought as they are not affected. Again, it reads that you are out of touch with the current Phuket situation.

Thanks. As you have experienced, it is not a requirement to show tax documents when going for an extension. There is a lot of speculation on this topic which imho is not warranted.

That's OK if true, but it's not accurate what you typed. I gave nothing to hide re my income sources, and I follow the law while carefully and legally managing my tax exposure. Thailand taxes local income and taxes remitted to Thailand income. At present it does not tax global income if not remitted to Thailand.

Perhaps. Except in the case of Phuket more are arriving than leaving. I lived in Phuket from 1997 to 1999, and moved back here in 2016. Has Phuket changed since 1997? Yes. But so have I changed. I pinch myself every morning thinking how lucky I am having a beach front condo with direct beach access , far, far from the maddening crowds of Patong , Karon, and Kata, which most tourists only know. Each to their own. I am happy there are those with your view. One less person to join the many who are coming here. Enjoy where you settle. I am very happy where I settled in Phuket.

The tax (land transport) Mafia are a PIA for certain. However they are FAR from killing Phuket. Rather Phuket has been booming as of late, with lots of new development and rental and real estate prices soaring. How can a place be booming and killed at the same time? I do agree no expat (nor tourist) likes the taxi mafia. However, there is now alternative transportation and not just the taxi mafia, which the taxi mafia tried to stop and they failed miserably. I don't know where you get your information from Phuket being killed by (the highly annoying and over priced taxi mafia) but you are clearly out of date. Yes they still are annoying and they still dominate in Patong and some western beaches, but their hold has slipped massively elsewhere. You are simply out of date. Motorcycle death statistics are horrible across all of Thailand, and for certain Phuket is no exception.

Show me an official immigration statement that as of today that every foreigner expat tax resident must show proof of filing an income tax return to obtain an extension. Official proof - across all Immigration offices. You can't. You can't because it is not true. This is nothing more than your speculation that YOU ARE TELLING YOURSELF LONG ENOUGH THAT NOW YOU BELIEVE IT. As the saying goes, you tell on yourself by what you say to others.

There is no requirement to get a tax certificate at present time. The Tax Certificate on the Thai RD has not been a nominal requirement for years for the average expat pensioner.

Yes - for those with the appropriate Visa, or with a DTA that clearly excludes Thai taxation of the foreign income, then an easy Visa extension with no issues will be waiting. No issues what so ever.

The Canadian requirement to report global income is not a CRS requirement. Canada required such LONG BEFORE Canada joined CRS. That statement is just a misinformed assumption. Sorry.

This is so true. and even some who live in Phuket for years - never fully explore the island to learn of some of the superb nooks and crannys. I concede I have a selfish mindset here, and I am happy to see the tourists miss out of such. They then cross off Phuket on their place to visit, and maybe pass on such on to their friends, and the more quiet very pleasant and nice upmarket location (on the beach, with fabulous view) is left unknown to them and others, such that we don't get over run with tourists. So if there was an exodus, I would say let the exodus continue. However - such is far from the truth, with real estate booming in the island, with both rental prices and purchase prices soaring.

BoI asked for two years of tax returns for my LTR-WP visa. I went the >$40k US$ equivalent and $250k US$ equivalent investment in Thailand route.

As noted by Jim Gant - the Thai BoI were interested in the 'gross' (before tax) income of my pension to prove it exceeded their $40k US$ equivalent per year. I am required on my Canadian tax returns to list my total gross before tax global income , which Canada in turn uses to decide my income tax bracket for taxing my Canadian Pension and for taxing my Canadian Old Age Security. Having that global income (from outside of Canada) did drive me into a higher Canadian tax bracket, ... but at least now with the LTR visa, having that proof of my global income (in an official Canadian government tax assessment form) has come in handy for my LTR visa application (which was approved). For the medical insurance I went the self health insurance route, with $100k US equivalent in cash in a Thai bank. When I reprove my finances in 2028 I may instead go with a letter from my European health Insurance noting my coverage exceed $50k US equivalent.

If less than $80K US equivalent income/year (but more than $40k US equivalent), for an LTR-WP you need to prove at least $250k US$ equivalent investment in Thailand, and simply having the money in a Thai savings account is NOT IMHO adequate. I believe just money sitting in the bank is not considered an investment. You need something like $250k (or more) US$ equivalent in real estate purchase in Thailand (such as a condo purchase) or $250k US$ equivalent purchase of Thai government bonds, or possibly some specific Thai mutual funds or a mix there of. In my case I used the 50% of the purchase price of my foreign freehold condo (1/2 was in my condo deed/chanote, and hence ownership, is in Thai wife's name - so I could not claim 100%) and I made up the remainder (to reach the $250k US$ equiv) by purchasing 2-million THB in Thai government bonds. I purchased a 7-year term bond. When I go to reprove my finances in 5-years (which will be year 2028 for me), I will either go the proof of $80k US/income per year, or buy another 2-million THB Thai government bond. If you are unsure if your 'investment' will qualify for the $250K US$ equivalent investment in Thailand, then simply phone BoI and ask them. They have many employees who speak English language. Someone else may need to answer this. I went the self health insurance route (with $100k US$ equivalent in a Thai bank as my proof of health insurance finances). Possibly in 2028 I will go with a letter from my European Health Insurance company. I think thou you simply need to have to prove another year left in your coverage - but again, you can check with BoI on this.

I am a Canadian, I live in Phuket, and I was on the type-OA visa for a while. One advantage you gained by entering Thailand on the Type-OA was it allowed you to open a bank account in Thailand. If instead you had entered Thailand visa exempt and tried to get a bank account ( necessary for a type-O) you may have failed getting such an account on a Visa exempt entry to Phuket. Possibly if visa exempt one might find an agent in Phuket to facilitate opening a bank account in Phuket, but I don't know of any in Phuket. Now that you have a bank account in Phuket, exiting Thailand ( with no reentry stamp) to kill off your type-OA is the way to proceed. You have been given excellent advice by others on this IMHO. Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos are all inexpensive to go to for a short hop outsideThailand, and they have great places to visit. Keep your records of your 800k in your Thai account coming in to Thailand ( in case asked when applying for type O). When I switched from type OA to type O ( by method suggested in this thread), I had my records handy. Fortunately Phuket Immigration did not ask me for that proof ( that 800k thb came from abroad), but things can change in Thailand so be prepared. You might be asked. My switch from type OA to type O ( reason on application being for retirement) went relatively smooth. It did thou take Phuket Immigration a long time to process the paperwork. So as soon as you reenter visa exempt ( having killed off the type-OA) go to Phuket Immigration to apply for the 90 day type O Visa. Then when 45 days left in type O permission to stay in Thailand, go to Phuket Immigration to apply for the one year extension of your permission to stay. My experience with Phuket Immigration is that it is better to apply as soon as you can. I am now on an LTR visa so my experience is a bit dated, but I assume no major changes since with Phuket Immigration.

I have an LTR visa, with both Bangkok bank and Krungsri credit cards. I do have > 2 million baht equivalent in each bank, but note this can be a mix of Thai baht, foreign currency accounts with the bank, mutual fund run by bank, and bonds offered by the bank. I can't recall being told I needed 2 million THB, but perhaps since I already had such in those banks this question never came up. I do recall having to set aside 100k THB in a separate account with each bank to guarantee the credit card transactions. With Krungsri I have the Krungsri exclusive account/card, and if at month end I forget to pay my credit card bill, Krungsri will phone me and politely remind me. I prefer not to have automatic credit card amount owing payment. I also note, this is far from my entire fortune. Like most expats I keep most my money overseas. I suspect this true for many long term visa holders in Thailand

I don't know about Thailand ,but my wife went for years not filing a tax return in Canada, why? Her income too small, and it wasn't worth the effort to get back the bank withholding tax. Eventually Revenue Canada sent her an email and demanded she file a tax return for the missing years. So we did ( what a PIA) and some months after filing multiple tax years at once, she received a reply with a refund of the small withholding tax and no penalty. I repeat, no penalty. She was below the tax filing threshold. What a total waste of government personal time and money to chase after her, only to have the government pay her some trivial amount of money.

Typically outbound tickets are "timed" for with a date for one to depart before the expiry end of the "visa exempt" permission to stay timeframe, that one is expected to get at Thai immigration. Typically it is NOT for a flight the same day and same airport of one's arrival. I have never heard of such before, and frankly, I struggle to believe what that friend of yours told you. .

Typically income is earned from a source country. Taxation depends on additional factors. So for an international brokerage, the earned income (profits) might be taxable based on the (1) the country where the branch of the brokerage one is using is registered/located , and (2) possibly if not a resident of the income source country, then tax may be required in the country in which one is a tax resident (ONLY if that country taxes global income). Thailand does not tax global income. As pointed out, Thailand taxes remitted income to Thailand, if that income was earned after 31-Dec-2023. There are two Thailand ministerial instructions (Por.161/162) which make this clear re: that 31-Dec-2023 date. So knowing the source country of one's income/profit, and the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with that source country (and Thailand) in regards to one's income is very important. With regard to filing a Thailand tax return, if you have no Thai income, and if you bring no money into Thailand, then you do not have to file a Thai tax return. I tried to get a Thai TIN (tax ID #) last year. My wife applied online for me, and the Bangkok main Revenue Department (RD) sent the application to the Phuket RD to handle. A Phuket RD official phoned our place, and asked us, ... (1) was I staying in Thailand >= 180 days per year (answer : YES), (2) what was the source of my income? (answer pensions OUTSIDE of Thailand), and (3) was I bringing that money into Thailand at present (answer : NO), and (4) how was I able to afford living in Thailand (answer : money brought into Thailand a few years prior when I was NOT a Thai resident). The RD tax official stated; No Tax ID for me, and I did not have to file a Thai tax return if I had no local income and and also if I remitted no money into Thailand while I was a tax resident. another example ... I obtain a German state (old age) pension. The German Thai tax agreement states such pension can ONLY be taxed in Thailand if I am a Thailand resident. Regardless, I submitted a Tax Return to Germany. The German government sent me a letter back, advising me i did not have to submit a German tax return , with my being a non-resident of Germany, and my German sourced income only being a German state pension. So CLEARLY tax returns are NOT ALWAYS required. So when considering the need to file a Thai tax return, it depends on the specific situations. Good luck with your planning and legal tax management. .

Unfortunately when it comes to this forum and the definition of pensions (government vs state) not everyone uses the same terminology. I believe the consensus as you note, is that the word 'government' pensions is nominally to refer to the pension of a 'civil-servant' or an 'ex-military' pension. And the word 'state' pension is referred to as the old age pension that almost anyone (who worked in the country and paid taxes in that country for more than some small TBD # of years) qualifies for. Many DTAs, as you note, distinguish between the two types of pensions, but the DTAs use different wording other than 'government' and different other than 'state' for pensions. This thread is about Aussie pensions , so that is the most important aspect here in regards to the Thai-Australia DTA. As I posted before, DTAs for other countries can be different. The German-Thai DTA has the 'state' (old age type) pension nominally taxable only in Thailand , and I have been told the German-Thai DTA has the 'government' (civil service/ex-military) pension taxable only in Germany. I struggle to find that last bit in the Thai - German DTA, but I have read (on this forum) that is the case. Another example, in the case of the Thai-Canada DTA, where ALL Canadian sourced pensions (and similar remunerations) are only taxed in Canada and not in Thailand. This is not the fabulous deal that it sounds, as Thai income tax rates tend to be less than Canadian in some cases, and it would possibly be better for Canadians in Thailand to have such pensions (and similar remunerations) taxable only in Thailand (and not taxable in Canada). Hopefully, for Australian government pensions, state pensions, private pensions, and similar remunerations, it becomes more clear to all as to the Thailand tax filing requirements.

I assume you are referring to your Canadian OAS, or CPP, or RRSP/RRIF or other similar 'pension' type remunerations from Canada. If that is your only income, even a number of the Tax Advisors (for Expats in Thailand) have stated if one's only income is remitted Canadian pension type remunerations, then no Thailand tax ID is needed, nor does one have to file a Thai tax return in that case (of only Canadian pensions being one's income). However if you have local Thai income, that exceeds the threshold for filing a Thai tax return (in addition to your remitted Canadian pensions), then yes, you do need to file a Thai tax return due to that local Thai income. I assume in your case, you put down 0-Thai baht for your remitted income? I assume that because there is NO PLACE to deduct that non-taxable income on the Thai tax form. Is my assumption correct? Given that, at present time there is no immigration requirement to show a tax return submitted, nor any official indication that such document for immigration will be required in the future (only some paranoid AseanNow scaremongers noting such is possible) - then I don't believe a tax return (nor tax ID) is needed in a case such as yours (if the Canadian pension (or similar Canadian derived remunerations) is the only income one has and is remitting to Thailand) . One needs to be above a certain assessable income level to qualify for a Thai tax ID. Having typed the above, no one is stopping anyone (who has a Thai tax ID) from filing a Thai tax return, even if they don't have to file. I am curious thou - just how did you list your remitted Canadian tax exempt income? Did you simply put down such as a ZERO ?