oldcpu

I think that a bit harsh statement. In addition to the tax code, there are RD ministerial instructions, and Riyal Decrees also governing taxation ( such as RD-18 which addresses Double Tax Agreements (DTA)) where there are dozens of different Double Tax Agreements. Addressing the tax situation of foreigners tends to more complicated than that of Thai locals. It's difficult for the average RD official to stay on top of all of this.

I don't know the precise reporting mechanism nor threshold levels. But I do believe above certain financial levels, global monetary transactions are recorded and per different existing agreements can be and are in cases reported to various governments.

I share your view ... with the added caveat that Joe Blow better have very good income records for any moneys remitted. Looks to me that your hypothetical Thai billionaire (zillionaire ? since he transferred zillions) knows how to legally manage his tax exposure.

And if you had read further, you would also have noticed I typed the following: I made it clear that residency and accessibility were factors ... as the income could be considered not in the 'assessible' income category. i do thou, think it important, one has documentation to prove the income was earned when one was NOT a resident Yep. No argument from me there.

My understanding is (for your case) only if your income comes from Thailand. If it comes from Thailand you need to file a Thai tax return and report that income.

Only if assessable. You should not file if exempt under a DTA, otherwise you encounter the same problems as the OP. What's the point of a DTA if you're required to file for tax? I agree only if assessable income AND if above the Thai tax filing assessble income threshold for filing a Thai tax return. As to the point of there being DTAs? ... it is to avoid double taxation. Not to avoid tax completely. The DTA is to help determine cases where one county may have exclusive taxation rights (and the other country no taxation rights) and to help in the situation where both countries can tax an income (to avoid double tax). There can be cases where legally due to DTAs and Royal Decrees on taxation and due to the source of one's income that: (1) a person pays taxes in both countries (but not above the maximum that they would pay if only one country involved), or (2) a person ONLY pays tax in one country on their income, and not in the other country, or (3) a person pays tax in neither country on their income, or (4) a combination of the above for different income sources. It all depends on how the tax law is implemented, together with Royal Decrees on taxation (such as Royal Decree-18 and DTA contents), Royal Decree 743 (LTR visa) and Ministerial instructions por.161/162. If remitted income to Thailand is exempt in the tax calculation, then it is not to be included in the assessment as to the threshold for submitting a Thai tax return, nor (if threshold reached to file a return due to other income) is the DTA tax exempt income to be included in a Thai tax return. I am not a tax expert - but sadly, seeing some of the mistakes in some of the youtube blogger purported tax advisors, it appears at present, neither are they experts, as perhaps some time is needed to see how this all plays out.

While that makes sense in terms of what I would like to see, sadly I am not so certain of that being accurate. Consider Thai RD Ministerial Instruction Por.162: The resident tax payer, who derive assessable income from ... assets situated outside of Thailand, will hereafter be subject to taxation in Thailand during the year the income is remitted, regardless of when it was earned. This shall not apply to any foreign-sourced income earned before 1-January-2024. So that suggests the income you earned (when not a tax resident to Thailand) can still potentially be taxed by Thailand in year 2026 or any later year if you remit that income into Thailand. But I am not certain there ... as (per what you note) one is NOT a resident tax payer when that income was earned. Having typed the above, dependent on the wording of the DTA of one's income source country with Thailand, the income earned may not be assessable in Thailand and hence not taxable in Thailand .... And further if that income earned (when one was not a Thai tax resident) was already taxed by the source country, then one nominally should have a tax credit if there is a DTA with that income source country that one can use to ensure that one is not double taxed by Thailand. So - sad to say ... this could be more complicated.

Last time an RD official said that to me was over 2 months ago. They never did phone.

Thanks. Using that link and a bit of guessing, for those looking for Thai language versions of the Thai-German, and Thai-Canada DTAs: Canada-Thai DTA in Thai language https://rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/canada_t.pdf German-Thai DTA in Thai language https://rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/germany_t.pdf This may come in handy if needing to point out some DTA aspects to a local RD taxation office (in Thai language). Hopefully it never comes to that need.

... and taxed on local assessable income if a certain assessable income threshold level is reached.

Thanks. Unless one has been following this forum in detail, it's difficult for others to assess how similar or how different their tax return filing requirements situation is from yours.

Sending money to Thailand, when not a Thai tax resident, should not be an issue (i.e. only in Thailand for 5-months). However when you are a Thai tax resident (ie in Thailand for 180 days or more), any money remitted into Thailand , - if not tax exempt by specific words in a DTA (reference Royal-Decree-18), or - if not tax exempt by an LTR Visa (reference Royal Decree 743), or - if not tax exempt by being pre-1-Jan-2024 savings (reference ministerial instructions por-161/162), then as a Thailand tax resident you are subject to Thailand tax on that assessable income if it meets the tax threshold. If the money you plan to remit is not exempt tax due to what I noted above, then to reduce your Thailand taxation exposure, its best to transfer money to Thailand when you are NOT a Thai Tax resident. That's my understanding, but note I am not a taxation expert. Honestly , some of the videos of those who claim to be tax/advisors/experts, are a bit questionable at certain specific locations in the videos, as efforts are being made to better understand the full implications of por-161/162 in relation to tax residency and DTAs. Even some local Thai RD taxation offices are challenged here , given there are many different Double Tax Agreements.

You can also find the Thai-Swiss Double Tax Agreement (DTA) here: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/switzerland_e.pdf

If LTR visa holders have local Thai income exceeding the tax reporting threshold then they are required to file a tax return reporting the local invome. I believe only LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR- WFTP are exempt tax on filing a tax return if no local income and only remitted foreign income. I have seen BoI statements confirming this, and also a user called the Thai RD tax help line and confirmed this as well. Only those initially uncertain and/or scaremongers and/or tax consulting firms (trying to drum up business) have been saying other wise.

If your income was to be excluded in the Thai tax calculation due to por.161/162, and Royal Decree-18/DTA then you may even be able to file an appeal and get your money back. However if the tax amount paid is small, it likely is not worth the hassle of an appeal.

I saw this on a Facebook LTR visa page, where i believe an LTR-WP visa holder contacted BoI and asked if they needed to obtain a Thai TIN and file a Thai tax return.

A quick look suggests that article references POR.161, which was later clarified more with POR.162. Further, note that articles massive qualification statement: With regards to the Thai Enquirer article stating "exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand" that is IMHO a simplification to which most agree it is a simplification. Its more complex that that I believe. In the case of some DTAs, both Thailand and the source-country of the pension (for example), can tax the pension. In that case, one is into tax returns and tax credits (unless one has an LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, or LTR-WFTP visa). In the case of some other DTAs, only the source country of the pension can tax the pension (or similar remuneration) - where in this case countries such as Canada (with its DTA with Thailand) and other country's civil service/military pensions only being taxable in the source-country. In that case, if no other income, there is no need for TIN nor tax returns. And in other cases (Germany springs to mind) only Thailand can tax a German state pension (by state pension I mean NOT civil servant/NOT military) and not Germany tax the state pension. In that case such state pensions if received after 31-Dec-2023 and if remitted to Thailand are to be taxed in Thailand (also only if Thailand taxation threshold exceed). Further complications are tax return filing thresholds ... and of course presence of an LTR-WP, LTR-WGC and LTR-WFTP visa plays a factor. So its very DTA specific here as well as there being some other factors. ... and add to that a paranoid view by some who (IMHO) incorrectly claim that a TIN and Tax Return is needed still, despite the Thai law making it clear in some cases that DTAs (as called up by Royal Decree-18) can make it clear some pensions are exempt Thai tax and hence in some cases legal that no Thai tax return need be filed. Ergo lots of confusion, not per se due strictly to Thai RD, but rather due to the paranoia (although the paranoid may call it ultra conservatism) on this forum.

That's an interesting interpretation. Not one I expected, but one I would be happy to see. I suspect most of use with trading accounts that are a mix of cash and equities, have a 31-Dec-2023 record as the total value (cash + share price at close business 31-Dec-2023) of our savings. I believe this and all subsequent trading / cash records then need to be kept, if desired to show subsequent remittances to Thailand came from the pre-1-Jan-2024 amount..

That Carden assessment begs the question ... why would the Thai RD NOT put a location on the Thai tax form if it was necessary to provide such information. No where in the Thai tax guide , that I could see, requires that. ... I am very suspicious that an unnecessary requirement is being pushed forward to try and raise money for a tax advisor office (to get expats to obtain TINs and file tax returns through such offices, when such is not a requirement for some (as confirmed by local Thai RD Tax offices - and the Thai RD helpline)).

Yes ... they might ... and they might not. From the experience of many at the local Thai RD offices (and from the main Bangkok RD help line) there does not read to be much interest in the Thailand RD in going after foreigners to prove such remittance source ... much much much less would be Thai immigration caring whether one has filed a tax return. Who knows? We will just have to wait and see. My view is to follow Thai tax law. Also take note of relevant Minsterial Instructions and of relevant Royal Decrees and of DTAs. Check if legally required to file a tax return noting NOT ALL INCOME is to be considered when evaluating the threshold to file a Thai tax return (in consideration of Royal Decrees, DTAs , and Ministerial directive). i suspect (hope?) with time, there may be superior summary information IN ONE LOCATION with regard to foreign sourced income (taking into account Thai tax code, the country of source income, DTAs, Ministerial Instructions , and Royal Decrees). At present one has to consider all and make an evaluation, as opposed to just one place/document.

Thanks. For anyone reading, my understanding is only health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company can be used in the Thai tax return as a deduction. That surprises me a bit. This can be VERY different dependent on the source country of the pension. For example, Canadian sourced pensions (and similar Canadian sourced remunerations) are NOT taxable in Thailand (and not to be included in Thai tax calculations) per the Thai-Canada Double Tax Agreement. But German state pensions (ie non-civil-service/non-miliary) pensions can ONLY be taxed in Thailand (if one a Thai tax resident). The source country and type of pension (civil-service/miltiary or every day citizen pension) can make a BIG difference per international agreements Thailand has agreed to (per Royal Decree-18). Also that is of interest. Typically there is a 15% with holding tax on your interest in a Thai bank account. So you may have already paid some Thai tax which is why that was considered !

My speculation is simply keep enough paperwork to prove the paper trail of the government (civil service or military) pension ) coming to Thailand (even if via another bank) and also keep enough paper work to credibly show your state pension (ie NOT civil service pension nor military pension) credibly did not come into Thailand (perhaps via showing the savings accumulating in the foreign bank or that state pension being spent outside of Thailand). You may need to do a bit of extra paperwork as a backup 'just in case' ever queried to show the money trial (although IMHO such need to show is highly unlikely - but easier to do with transfer information is relatively 'fresh').

I also find the 'state' pension terminology confusing (it is not used in Canada either to the best of my recollection). My understanding is on this forum, when many say 'state' pension they mean the pension that most every citizen of a county gets if they (and/or their employer) contributed to their country's pension system. And when they state 'government' pension, many mean a civil servant pension and/or a military pension. As i noted before, all Canadian pensions (and similar remunerations) are taxable ONLY in Canada (and not in Thailand). On the otherhand, Germany is the exact opposite, where my understanding German 'state' pensions (ie the one every German resident gets who contributed to the German pension system for a sufficient number of years) is taxable only in Thailand. ... I can't recall off the top of my head if a German government pension (ie civil servant/military) is taxable in Thailand.

I assume your health insurance is from a local Thailand branch of a health insurance company? is that correct? Is your income local (earned in Thailand income) or a pension from another country? May I ask which country? and is your pension a government pension (ie that of a civil servant or ex-military) or is a state pension (one that every citizen gets if they contribute to their county's pension system)?

Well, the Thai RD, when contacted, disagree with you. OK. They disagree with you So you think you know better than the Thai RD and Thai tax law, ehh ? I don't think so. There is no need to go court when one is 100% compliant with Thai tax law, according to the Thai RD. Ohh ... you mean go to court for the KhunHeineken countershuffle? Ha ! Now that is funny. Ohhh ... apologies ... I forgot ... you think you know better than the Thai RD.