oldcpu

I am still pondering the approach to take in submitting my 2025 tax return. My original idea was to report my OAS, CPP, RRIF income, interest, dividends, and capital gains (if any)) on the non-resident T1 form, and then turn around deducting the same on a different line on the T1 form. However i received feed back from a source who noted if i do that, Revenue Canada may mistakenly complete their assessment of my tax return form as if i am electing under section-217. (even thou I will provide a letter saying I am not filing under section-217). Filing under section-217 would cost me a LOT of money due to my large global income outside of Canada (and outside Thailand). I note I have paid withholding tax on OAS, CPP, and RRIF income. And possibly paid withholding tax on Dividends. My tax obligations for those thus may already have been met. And given Canadian interest and Canadian capital gains may be excluded Canadian tax (since I am a non-resident of Canada , with applicable clauses in the Thai-Canada Double Tax agreement being relevant), I may adopt a different approach. In the different approach I would write a cover letter and note I already paid withholding tax on my OAS, CPP, RRIF and dividends and note I believe that satisfies my tax obligation for those incomes (referencing the specific sections in the Canadian Tax act and the Thai-Canada-DTA). For the interest and Capital Gains, I would also note the specific sections in the Canadian tax act and Canada-Thai DTA which notes they are applicable for Thailand to tax and not Canada to tax (I have to confirm this yet re; interest)). I would thou list all of those incomes on Revenue Canada tax return Schedule-A (World Wide income) and also in the OASIR tax returns - so I would still be giving full disclosure to Revenue Canada. They would know of all my income so there would be full disclosure. I have not yet decided which approach (ie either (1) report all income on the T1, Schedule-A and OASIR, and then deduct same income on the T1, ... or (2) not report the income on the T1 (with a covering letter explaining why and only put all income on the Schedule-A/OASIR). Likely I won't file my Canadian tax return until close to end April, as I have major global travel planned all March and most of April. So I have time to ponder this.

I think the Samui Revenue Official misunderstood you. What is important is Thai tax law. i believe we agree there. Note - under Section 56(1)(a) of the Thailand Revenue Code for unmarried persons and Section 56(1)( c) for married persons, a Thai tax resident is required to file an annual personal income tax return only if all their assessable income exceeds the applicable personal allowance of 60,000 THB (single) or 120,000 THB (married filing jointly). This is BOTH foreign remitted and local assessable income combined. Where a taxpayer’s total assessable income, including any assessable foreign-sourced income remitted into Thailand, does not exceed 60,000 THB or 120,000 THB, respectively, an annual Thailand income tax return is not required. ... So there IS a threshold (per Thai tax law) and further whether income is assessable is incredibly important. ... Not all income is assessable. The slides you quote are 'generalities' and do not consider the thresholds - and clearly they have mislead you. Look at the actual Thai tax law. Thai tax law DOES consider the assessable income theshhold as a tax filing criteria. I suggest you actually don't believe me (yet) on this, but rather dig through the Thai tax law yourself, and convince yourself of the actual facts.

No. That is NOT what the Phuket RD office official told my wife and myself. You are welcome to go to the Phuket RD and argue with those officials thou. There is a threshold of a certain amount of Thai baht that remitted assessable income (plus local assessable income from Thailand) must reach, before a Thailand income tax return is required. Note the word 'assessable' income. If remitted income and if local income to Thailand are not assessable, then they are not to be used in the assessment as to whether one's assessable income meets the threshold needed before a Thai tax return is needed.

lol ... possibly also a receipt for other activities of the wife as well ?? lol ... Actually thou. I am not kidding re: the risks of using gifts to one's wife to avoid paying taxes. Providing one's wife a gift, to avoid paying taxes, is IMHO likely going to garner a LOT of attention if the Thai RD discovers that was done. IMHO one is likely best served, if possible, to find less problematic legal ways to manage one's tax exposure.

"I don't know your income source, but if you mean income from France, there may be some nuances you don't know. (or maybe it is me who does not know.). How well have you researched this? Just now i looked at the French-Thai DTA (I was curious as I have friends from France who live in the small luxury condo complex where I also live). My (possibly incorrect) reading is if your French income was before 1-Jan-2024 (and it savings since), and only now brought into Thailand, per Thai ministerial directives Por-161/162, it is no longer considered income, but it is considered savings, and can be brought into Thailand tax free. Just keep a record of your savings on 31-Dec-2023 in case you are tax audited and also keep a paper trail to prove the money since remitted comes from that pre-1-Jan-2024 savings. If your income is from a French Private pension, or a French Government pension (as a former government employee) or a French Government pension as a non-government employee, then France nominally taxes such and per article 23(2)(a) and 23(2)(b) in the Thailand-France DTA, Thailand does not tax such. Did I misread the DTA? Perhaps other French citizens who are now Thai tax residents can chime in. The same is true for capital gains from real estate sales earned in France where France normally taxes such. I don't read anywhere that it states Thailand can tax such. Again, did I misread the DTA?" My view is that would be taxable, as you would benefit by her driving the car (as she would run errands as a spouse by food, ... etc ... which benefits you). But I am not a taxation expert, so others likely have a far better assessment than myself and can chime in. Best wishes in your efforts to legally manage your taxation exposure.

That's interesting to finally see. Thanks for sharing that from the PIT90. I note thou, best i can find, there is still no place to deduct foreign income that is specifically excluded from Thailand taxation under a Double Tax Agreement with another country (where that 'other country' is the source country of one's income). This can be a different category from a Tax Credit - where nominally tax credits apply where BOTH countries can tax income. Which IMHO means such income excluded from Thai taxation per a DTA, (if not included under the aspect of a Tax credit), is not to be considered assessable income for Thai taxes, and hence not included in assessing if one needs to file a Thai tax return ... and also not to be included one's Thailand tax submission if one needs to file a Thai tax return for other reasons. I believe this (not including income excluded Thai taxation under a DTA) is consistent with Thai Royal Decree 18 on DTAs. https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/eng/RD_18.pdf Of course when it comes to DTAs, the Devil is in the details (of each DTA) as not all DTAs exclude one from paying Thai tax. Some (DTAs) are just the opposite, noting one is subject to Thai tax on one's foreign (remitted) income. In that case, tax credits can come into play. It varies from DTA to DTA. Still, its interesting to read that PIT.90 update, containing a location for tax credit deductions, for cases where one needs to pay taxes to both Thailand and one's income source country.

For large amount of money transfers, its going back to the 'old day's where we had to go to the bank in person, so to make a transfer.

There are exemptions, but one needs to be careful in regards to conditions, for if one is audited and one did not follow the letter of the tax law, there is potential to find oneself fined, or worse. Re: the gift exemption, the money can NOT be used to directly benefit one's self. There are constraints even with the LTR visa tax exemptions. There are variants of the LTR visa, and not all variants get the same tax exemption. Consider the LTR-WP and LTR-WGC variants of the LTR visa. The latest interpretation of BoI (as emailed to a couple of Aseannow forum members) clarified that if foreign income is brought into Thailand, in the year that it is earned, then such income is NOT tax exempt by Thailand. Such foreign income, to be Thai tax exempt (assuming no DTA exclusions), must be brought in a tax year OTHER than which it was earned. More precisely, per POR.161.162, Before 1-Jan-2024, ... Not before 2023. Yes, this is important. Some of us remitted a LOT of money to Thailand BEFORE we became Thai tax residents. It depends entirely on what the DTA with Thailand of the 'social security' source country says. Do NOT ASSUME one's social security is tax exempt. Dependent on the source country it may not be Thai tax exempt. Typically DTAs are in place to prevent DOUBLE TAXATION. ... Ergo in many (dare i say most) cases, one has already paid tax on one's foreign sourced income in the country of the income source. Further, in a number of DTA cases, one IS taxed (on paper) in both countries, and one has to obtain tax credit paperwork from one of the two countries, so to obtain tax exemption in the other. The paperwork to be conducted can be a PIA. I assume you mean interest? No, it is NOT tax exempt. There can be a 15% withholding tax, and after that withholding tax is deducted, one's obligations to include that interest income (left after withholding tax deduction) is no longer considered assessable. But 15% is not the same as exemption. Yes, but threshold is very small. NO, its not tax exempt if the money is used to benefit one's self. I won't discuss such here. There is a degree of risk here. I recommend caution here, where I do agree with you that everyone should assess their own case, assess their income source, assess the DTA between Thailand and the source country of their income, review/assess Thai ministerial directives such as POR.161/162 so to carefully bring in pre-1-Jan-2024 savings into Thailand if no other Thai tax exemptions apply, and if one has extended travel ( > 181 days) planned outside of Thailand, use that opportunity to remit a lot of money to Thailand. But be cautious and careful as to how one manages and structures their funds, as not all the points in your post that I pointed out, mean money can be blindly brought in. One needs, IMHO, to be alert as to one's own constraints as to how one manages legally their tax exposure.

Very recently, in DIRECT correspondence to a couple of different LTR-WP visa holders, BoI noted the guidance that they received from the RD was that to be Thai tax exempt, remitted income for the noted LTR visa holder must be remitted in a year different from the year it was earned. ... ie income remitted in the same year it was earned would potentially be Thailand taxable (dependent on DTAs and other factors). This IMHO was a big change in BoI's position in regards to LTR visa holder's Thailand tax exemption. To the best of my knowledge, BoI have yet to publicly post this important detail.

I also reads like he lumped local Thai income (rentals) with foreign remitted income. So its not a very clear assessment in regards to audits nor why (ie is it mostly for local income earners vs those remitting foreign income)?

I would not use the word 'problem', but it could complicate this a bit if audited. My view is to (1) have a print out of all one's assets as of end-day 31-Dec-2023 (especially cash position). For any equities held on 31-Dec-2023, note what the original purchase was previously (as such was purchased with cash). (2) note any profit made from equities sold after 31-Dec-2023 (as that dependent on a DTA may (or may not) be taxable if remitted to Thailand. (3) keep track of all cash withdrawn from the accounts that had cash end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. (4) keep track of all cash from (3) that is remitted to Thailand (as per Por-161/162 that is nominally tax exempt). With that information and with appropriate bank account and financial structuring, it should be feasible to make it clear if any remitted cash is tax exempt per Thai law and per Thai ministerial directives. No. I have no accountant to recommend. IMHO any accountant will ask for the information I noted above, and then will simply possibly restructure such and put an accountant stamp on it. Further such is likely only needed if one is audited. Having an accountant stamp, and structure ones appropriate financial remittance records, may, or may not, help. My (possibly not relevant) experience with an accountant in Canada is the accountant I choose only garnered more attention (from Revenue Canada) as Revenue Canada was fully aware that this accountant's submissions in regards to tax were borderline to possibly shady. Ever since one difficult year with Revenue Canada (in Canada), I have always avoided tax experts and tax accountants (in Canada) and done my own Canadian tax returns. Perhaps i was just unlucky there. In contrast, in Germany, for years, I had I tax accountant who did my tax returns who was very good. .

Its been 2 decades since I lived in Canada (country where i was born). Often, when i show up at Canadian immigration, with my passport, the Canadian IO says to me: "Welcome back, ... do you plan to stay long this time? " .... Which I don't mind, as the 'tone' is typically very polite. ... I will often smile and reply with something like " only xxx-weeks, giving me enough time to take in a few hockey games while I am here, ... " . That occasionally gets a smile in return. Most (not all) of my experience (that is less pleasant) when entering a country, with a government employee trying to provoke some sort of response is over 2 decades ago with Canadian customs. But that's off topic and I won't go into that here.

There are always risks in life. There is a risk that Type-O and OA annual visa renewal price could increase (HOPEFULLY NOT). There is a risk such visas could be cancelled (HIGHLY UNLIKELY IMHO). There is a risk of nuclear Armageddon (hopefully NEVER). There is a risk anyone of us could get involved in a Thai vehicle accident (THIS is MORE LIKELY). Lets look at we know. We know a number of expats who live in Thailand > 180 days, applied for a tax-ID and were denied such. I know that for a fact. I was one of those denied a tax-ID. We know we don't read any reports of the MANY MANY MANY expats who go for annual extensions, being asked for tax IDs. OK? We know that we don't read of such. We know that there are many different countries each with different Double Tax Agreements with Thailand, ... where it is very difficult for anyone in Government in Thailand to know what remitted income to Thailand may be assessable and which income may not be assessable (due to various DTAs). It is complex. its not an easy topic. We know trying to figure out which remitted income is assessable and which remitted income is not assessable (based on dozens of different DTAs) is very very difficult for even tax experts, much less the Thai RD, and even less for the Thai immigration. And further, I ask what do we know in regards to any concerns re: immigration cooperating with the Thai RD requiring a tax ID for expats? Well we know such giving a tax ID to all expats is currently against the in practice Thai RD policy, based on them not granting tax-IDs to many of us. I think we both agree (for many expats) that hopefully a tax ID will not be needed. I think even if a tax-ID eventually may be required, it will also not be so bad, due to Thai Ministerial document POR.161/162 (re: tax free pre-1-Jan-2024 savings if remitted), and due to various DTA with Thaliand, as many will not pay Thai tax, and worst case for those (who need not pay) would be the potential irritation to submit a Thai tax return if their assessable income met the pre-requisite threshold, which is not a certainty given much remitted income at present can be considered not assessable. Obviously (to me at least) is every expat should look at their own income situation, note the income source, note the timing of any savings, and note the DTA with one's income source country, and be aware as to one's potential exposure.

No. That is only applicable to relevant LTR visa holders.

I assume you are referring to withholding tax by BBL on the interest?

I think we are off topic, but this reads to be a mistake to me. Could it be the translation service he was looking to use, could not translate from Italian to Thai, and so he was thus asked (by the translation service) to first have the document translated to English language, such that they could then translate the English to Thai? This reads to me like a translation service issue, or an issue with the Italian Embassy, but not a Thai foreign affairs constraint.

tens of thousands of THB may not matter if less than the Thai tax return filing threshold (ie less than 60,000 THB if you are single). I suspect it depends on a number of factors, such as the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the country from where your foreign remitted income is sourced. Its possible such a Thai - Foreign country DTA could make your income not assessable by Thailand. And its also possible the DTA may not help at all. I believe if you are a tax resident of Thailand, if you have assessable income that exceeds 60,000 THB (if single, or exceeds 120,000 THB if married), you nominally are supposed to file a tax return. Note the word assessable. This is key as its possible your foreign remitted income may (or may not) be assessable income for tax return filing purposes. Also, given various deductions, i read one generally may not actually pay tax until one's net taxable income (after deductions and allowances) exceeds 150,000 THB. However I am NO expert on this. Others who know more can post on this. But again- note POR.161/162 which defines savings from before 1-Jan-2024, being remitted to Thailand, is not considered assessable income. We have so many threads on this topic ... but i concede diving into them can be tiring.

Well, I 'feel' for you regarding taxation, if you end up being excessively taxed. I believe there are many variations for tax obligations, dependent on the country of one's income, and the Thai-to-foreign-country Double Tax Agreement (DTA). Relatively recently, I spent a lot of time reviewing Canadian tax law and the Thai-Canada double tax agreement, while at the same time trying to be up to date with Thai tax law and Thai ministerial documents (relevant to taxation) and of course any relevant (to taxation) Royal Decrees. I only looked at these from my perspective given my income sources. I contributed to a thread on Canadian taxation on this forum ( https://aseannow.com/topic/1307606-what-is-the-tax-treaty-between-canada-and-thailand/page/2/ ) where I summarized my research. Why do all of this? As a non-resident to Canada, I feel I paid too much tax in Canada in tax-year 2024, and that was what motivated me to do more research. I now plan, in my 2025 tax return to Canada (that i will submit in a few months) to include an accompanying letter, referencing specific sections in Canadian tax law, and also in the Canada-Thai Double tax agreement, justifying some deductions in my planned tax return. My current view is whoever in Revenue Canada, reviewed my tax return for 2024 tax year, was (like me at that time) not fully aware of all of the details of Canada-Thai DTA, and not aware of some tax aspects in regards to Canada law for taxing non-residents (where withholding tax has already been applied). I believe I may have failed to make some deductions, and the Revenue Department did not correct my return to give me the appropriate deductions. Further, since then, I slightly restructured some Canadian finances to hopefully better minimize inappropriate excessive tax exposure. In some cases, a DTA with Thailand may open up such possibilities for foreign income, dependent on the DTA details. In terms of this thread, .... regardless of any Thai tax proposed changes, that may, or may not come to pass, for those where the tax due can be significant, it may be useful to familiarize one's self with the tax law (of Thailand, of one's income sourced country, and the relevant DTAs). I am a bit surprised we don't see more threads (like the one I contributed to on Canada taxation) for other countries. We have expats from many countries on this forum. And given my upcoming April-2026 plans (for my Canada tax return), i suspect later in 2026 i will find out how much Revenue Canada agrees, or disagrees, with how I file my tax return. Murphy's Law says they will disagree with me. Lol !

I do the same re; my Canadian income - I pay taxes in Canada for the income I receive in Canada. I even received a formal letter from the Canadian government, offering to tax me as a Canadian tax resident (even thou I am a resident of Thailand) so that I could better take advantage of tax deductions offered to tax residents of Canada. it was nice of them to give me the choice. I thankfully declined that offer to be taxed as a Canadian tax resident (even thou I am not a resident). Again, it was nice to be given the choice. Surprising (to me) is for my German pension, as a resident of Thailand, I don't need to submit a German tax return. I did submit one for the first couple of years in which i moved to Thailand, and i subsequently received a formal letter from the German government advising me as long as my residence and financial situation did not change, I did not have to submit a German tax return. ... I wish Canada was that nice. lol !

i own a condo, and live in that condo with my Thai wife. My name is in a Yellow book for my condo. My wife completes a TM30 for me. When I was on the Type-O/OA, I used to bring a copy of the Chanote with me (in addition to yellow book and TM30) when i went to immigration. I recall they asked to look at my Chanote once (Phuket immigration) but they did not keep a copy of it. They did keep copies of my yellow book print out and my TM30 screen shot printout. However was such really required? ... I don't know. I am now on LTR visa and I have no recent Type-O/OA experience (I still thou - have my wife complete a TM30 for me staying in my condo even thou I am on an LTR visa). The Phuket immigration volunteers on their web page, of 90-day extensions (of a Type-O/OA) state (these are extracts .. not the full requirements): Initial Non-O 90 Day extra Requirements (retirement) - Rental contract or proof of ownership if applicant owns their residence - Copy of Owner’s ID - Copy of Owner’s House Book - Copy of Owner’s Chanote (Front and backside) .... - An up-to-date address registration (TM30) ... and for a one year extension they state : One Year Extension Requirements (retirement) - An up-to-date address registration (TM30) Under the one-year extension requirement (for retirement), they don't list owner's ID, nor housebook, nor owner's chanote for the 'one-year' but that could be a typo on the webpage for all I know. i suspect every immigration office has differences re: their requirements, and further, I suspect every IO in the immigration office may have slightly different requirements.

There are two Thai Ministerial directives, POR.161 and POR.162, which together note that any foreign income from before 1-Jan-2024 is considered savings, and hence is not taxable if brought into Thailand. I am not aware of any official guidance as to how to 'prove' this. The approach that I believe worth while to adopt, is to have a record of all savings as of close of business on the last day of 2023 (I think that was Friday 29-Dec-2023, but i may have my day of week wrong). Have a print out recorded of one's foreign cash position in banks, outside of Thailand on that date. Then have a spreadsheet from that data onward, recording all transactions of money brought into Thailand, such that it can be credibly proven that all money brought into Thailand was from cash on 29-Dec-2023. [Possibly Sunday 31-Dec-2023 is a better end-date]. Where it comes 'tricky' is how non-cash 'savings' are assessed re:POR.161/162. i don't know the official position there of the Thai government. For example equities purchased in year 2022, but sold in year 2025, ... are those considered savings? I supposed on could note the market value of those equities at close of business on Friday 29-Dec-2023 (or perhaps Sunday 31-Dec-2023, IF there is weekend trading?? ) ... and hence the value of those equities on 31-Dec might (and I emphasize might) be considered savings. But I do not know the official answer - my guess is they are NOT considered savings. However perhaps the year-2022 cash value used to purchase those equities might be considered savings? But again - I don't know. Clearly the cash was changed to equities, and equities are not nominally (IMHO) considered savings? or are are equities considered savings? I believe there has been debate on this, with different opinions held. ... But any cash position on 31-Dec-2023, is IMHO clearly savings, and as long as one has a spreadsheet and financial documents to show the money remitted to Thailand came from that cash, then I suspect one is on solid ground if audited. .

My view is many countries prefer taxation on residents (and not restricted to citizenship), because residents in a country use the services/facilities provided by the country's government. While non-residents in the most part do not use as much of the government services. Hence if one is a citizen, but a non-resident of the country, one is not using the government's services. Hence the view (of many governments) is in that case, if not using the government services (which is the case for non-residents), and especially if no income from the country where one is not a resident, there is no need to pay taxes to their country. Also, it can be a PIA and an expense, to track down citizens, who are no longer resident. However as we all know, some countries DO tax based on citizenship. Might there be more countries that wish to tax based on citizenship? Possibly, but I think the case for more governments wanting to impose taxation of global income based on residency is more likely. However opposing global taxation based on residency, for some countries, is the wealthy who contribute to the political parties, may have lots of money outside of the country. To push taxation of those resident people (in this example mostly citizens), could mean less money contributed to the political parties of the countries (as those very very wealthy citizens are opposed to global taxation). ... Which is not to say global taxation can not happen, but it does say there is likely money being spent (discretely contributed?) to oppose global taxation (IMHO) in cases. .

My suggestion for anyone who encounters this (with LTR visa) where the Bank claims an account can not be opened (as the bank does not call the LTR a long term visa), is to very very politely explain it is a MUCH MUCH "LONGER" term visa than a long term Visa. Note it is a 10-year visa, and politely suggest the bank branch check with their bank head office in Bangkok. Of course this being Thailand, a polite 'face saving' way has to be found to make the request that the Bangkok head office be queried. If the branch clerk or manager feels they will lose face, they may claim they are following head office policy (so to avoid the loss of face when they are in fact wrong) ... when in fact they are not following such main branch policy. This (trying to correct an innocent mistake) is IMHO always a tricky thing to do in Thailand. One can possibly also show the BoI webpage for the LTR visa, where it clearly shows how to open a Thailand bank account when on the LTR visa. And if one wishes to pursue further, one can contact BoI after (having been refused) and point out to BoI the bank branch that refuses to accept the LTR visa. That IMHO won't help one open one's account, but it may help others (on an LTR) as BoI may contact the Head office, to ensure word makes it down to the various bank branches. .

Rule out the combination method in practicse? I don't think so, as long as one is trying not to use a embassy certificate which is no longer available from the embassy and as long as one has regular foreign bank deposits to a Thai bank that meet the requirement.. Again, the Phuket immigration volunteer site notes the following as acceptable for a combination without an embassy income certificate: The above quote is from the Phuket immigration volunteer web site. Yes. Presumeably. I have never thou used such in my case when I was on the type-O nor type-OA. I used the 800k THB in a Thai bank method.

I suspect this depends on the immigration department. Years back when I was on a Type-OA and later a Type-O, Phuket immigration indicated they would drop by my condo, but they never set a date in advance. They stated they would phone prior to showing up. The few times they phoned, I was out of province. Then on my last occasion (on a Type-O) when they stated they would check on my residence, they did so by the "Line" social media app with a video chat. They set up a specific time the in the next couple of days when they would phone me. The phoned me, started a video chat, had me walk to the front door of my condo unit, and pause there while they did a screen shot (on their phone) of my face with my condo door #. Then they had me walk to the condo complex entrance, where they had me stand by the condo entrance sign, and again do a screen shot with my face and the condo entrance sign. That worked pretty good, it was relatively quick, and was far less disruptive than hosting them in my condo. Again, I suspect it depends on the immigration department, and further I suspect the policy changes from year to year.