oldcpu

If true, then IMHO it underscores the importance to understand one's own exposure to taxes, and legally manage one's exposure to try and legally ensure no unnecessary taxation. This IMHO believes on needs to be aware of Thai Revenue Department ministerial directives por.161/162, which when taken together in part states any foreign savings/income from before 1-Jan-2024, if brought into Thailand from 1-Jan-2024 onwards is tax exempt, and not to be included in a Thai tax calculation, and not to be considered assessable income. This will not help those living from pension check to pension check, but it may help those who prior to 1-Jan-2024 held a substantial amount of money outside of Thailand. It also, IMHO underscores the need to understand what is written in the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the source country of one's foreign income (such as pensions in particular). In some cases only Thailand can tax such foreign pensions. In other cases both countries can tax such foreign pensions (and tax credits become involved), and in other cases Thailand has agreed not to tax such foreign sourced pensions. After por.161.162, it is more important now for one to better understand the implications when bringing foreign funds into Thailand.

The savings must all come before 1-Jan-2024. Topping up does not increase that pre-1-Jan-2024 amount. But if you can prove that the money you brought into Thailand is credibly from before 1-Jan-2024, then there is no need to file a Thai tax return (if that is your only remitted money into Thailand). Warning - do not expect you can keep topping up that money and claim it is from before 1-Jan-2024, if it was not from before 1-Jan-2024. So keep a print out of your savings on 31-Dec-2023 close of business, create a spreadsheet or accounting method, and track all future remittance to Thailand as coming from that amount. Once that pre-1-Jan-2024 amount runs out on paper, you could be into Thai tax return territory.

Siam legal. Right? yea - right. ... If they state exempt foreign income is assessable income to be included on a tax form (and used to assess the need to file a tax return), then they pretty much have been proven incorrect in regards how they assess foreign pension income that a DTA states is only (or exclusively) taxed by the non-Thai source country of the pension income. It is pretty much confirmed now your view wrong, by reviewing the Thai Tax Code, the Royal Decrees (18 and 743), the Ministerial Directives por.161.162, and the Thailand tax forms in English (2017 to 2023) and the Thai tax forms in Thai (2017 to 2024) and relevant words in some DTAs. Pension income exempt per those legal documents if remitted to Thailand are not to be considered in a tax calculation, are not to be considered assessable income and are not to be used as part of the calculation in assessing if one should file a Thai tax return Go ahead and ignore such ... but if anyone were to attempt to file a Thai tax return, you will find NO PLACE on any Thai tax return to properly list such income as exempt. The MASSIVE scaremongering here is very counter productive. I will again recommend AseanNow users ignore what Cyclist has typed - as it is misinformed.

This matches my understanding, where I had a running debate with Cyclist who held a different view. As I noted ... if one looks at the relevant DTAs (ie USA, Canada, and DTAs that cover civil service and military service pensions, the wording typically says something along the lines that such pensions are exclusively taxed (or can only be taxed) in the pension source country. This makes these pensions (in the noted DTAs) exempt Thai taxation per Royal Decree 18, which in essence means exempt from Thai tax calculation. Hence these pensions are not to be considered assessable in Thailand for taxation purposes. ie. no Thai tax to be paid on them, and further, they are not to be considered when assessing one's threshold for submitting an income tax return to Thailand. And if one needs to file a tax return to Thailand due to other income pushing one over the taxation submission threshold, those DTA tax exempt pensions are not to be listed on the Thai tax return form. This makes perfect sense given there is no location on the Thai tax return forms to list such pensions as exempt income. My hope is some of the sceptics on this forum (and this thread) take note. Of course not every DTA allows pension income to be treated as not assessable income by Thailand. German pensions (that are not civil servant and not military) are taxable in Thailand if remitted to Thailand (and they are not taxable in Germany). Of course this is my opinion, but it is gratifying to read of (and see video of) other's who share my view.

I have mostly only looked at Canadian DTA in any detail (pension aspect in particular) and also a bit at German pensions. Other DTAs less so (although I have looked at some out of curiousity). What he states about Canadian pensions not being taxable in Thailand (and also not being considered assessable income for Thailand if remitted to Thailand and hence no Thai tax return required IF that is one's only income) confirms what I have read elsewhere, and also what my understanding of the Canada-Thai DTA means. Of course Canada taxes pensions pretty heavily, so one is still paying a LOT of tax (to Canada in this case).

And the Royal Decree / DTA in some (not all) cases can make a foreign income not taxable by Thailand and ultimately not to be considered as assessable. In such a case (of income not taxable in Thailand by DTA) per Royal Decree the income is exempt for Thailand tax ... and being exempt (and not taxable by Thailand) by Royal Decree and further per the selected DTA), such exempt income is not to be considered assessable income. If it is not assessable income then it is not to be included in the determination as to whether a tax return is needed. Only assessable income is to be used for assessing if an income tax return is needed. I gave Cyclist an example of this (Canadian pensions paid to a resident of Thailand) and they still do not seem to understand this. Cyclist, all you are succeeding in doing is confusing those who have not researched this. Not every foreign income remitted to Thailand is assessable income. OK? For those puzzling over this, you really really really need to read and understand the DTA of your income source country (or countries) with Thailand. Do not follow the guidance of those (Cyclist in particular) who state the only exempt income is that from pre-1-Jan-2024, because they are WRONG and they fail to admit such. They refuse to admit their error. What does that tell you? Where else have they made an error they refuse to admit? Note if you follow their advice, it could cost you money. Do not follow the guidance of those who refuse to accept the explanation why DTA exempt foreign income has no entry field for the exemption on a tax return going back to year 2017 (and likely to year 1969). Instead all they can speculate is the English language 2024 tax form might be different (when we have already seen from the 2024 Thai language tax form that there is no such difference). Be careful in reading the posts of such who simply do not fully research this topic. But do follow Thai law. Just understand clearly what income of yours is assessable and what is not to be considered assessable. And in that determination the Thai Tax code, Ministerial directives, and Royal Decrees (which also can and do call up DTAs) are relevant. If in doubt you can go to your local RD, but BEFORE you do, be certain to be prepared to ask the right questions of the Thai RD with the specific DTA of your source income country with Thailand in mind.

Yes - I pondered over that 'bank statement' . I guess if the could show a Thai bank statement (with remittances into Thailand) or a Wise statement (showing transfers into Thailand), but depending on the person, there could be many non-relevant transfers. It could be painful to scroll through (ie many pages long). I note the comment re:extensions. I think I might even have been one of the 1st to note that might be a way to enforce foreigners to file tax returns. But that was speculation by me then and speculation now. I don't see that one user's case as indicative, as I can not help but believe there was more to his story than what he posted.

There is an English language tax guide associated with PID-90. On page-2-4 of that it states: "A tax payer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht exemption from his/her total income" .... "If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" and deduct an exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90. There is no English language 2024 form that I could see ... so I will use the 2023 year form for this ... I believe that "Income Exemption Form is here" (for 2023 ) : https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/22036765year.pdf So looking at the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" in the middle of the page you select "Taxpayer ( ... ) 65 Years of Age or Older." Then possibly under area "No.1 Assessable Income under section 40(1)(2) in box 5, you put in the 190,000 THB. Note the bottom of that page under the "*" it states "Accumulated income exemption for .... taxpayer over 65 years old .... from all types of income must not exceed 190,000 baht." NOTE: I have never been legally required to fill in a Thai tax form. I am simply curious - so please make your own assessment. Or better yet, others who have already filled in such in the past please chime in. I am NOT an expert. I am just a curious person (who is also over age-65).

Typically a DTA will refer to a specific type of income (such as a pension) and if that pension is noted in the DTA to be exclusively taxed by the source country-A, where the individual is a resident of country-B, then country-B as a signature to that DTA is not to tax that pension. I have been very careful to make posts correct in regards to Thai law. For example I pointed out Royal Decree-18 (ie relevant to Thai law) notes some foreign income in a DTA can be tax exempt. And you DENIED such, stating only pre-1-Jan-2024 income can be taxable. You made a mistake in stating that (claiming only pre-1-Jan-2024 remitted foreign income is exempt) when other income may also be exempt per Royal Decree. Its time you admitted your mistake. This is all in accordance with Thai law that you are ignoring. You have posted something that is contrary to Thai law (re: exempt foreign income).

That is not exclusive. Time for you to look that word up in the dictionary.

What part of 'exclusive' don't you understand in regards to which country can tax that income and which can not. No where have i stated one should not comply with any country's tax policy. I have said just the opposite and referenced Royal Decrees and also in other threads Thai tax code paragraphs. But what I have stated (in different wording) if country-A has a certain tax law, it does not by extrapolation mean country-B will have the same tax law. I believe you are extrapolating your tax situation to that of other's with completely different DTAs. I am still waiting for you to explain your post/understanding where you claim the only exempt remitted foreign income is pre-1-Jan-2024 income. And still waiting for you to explain your understanding why there is no field in any Thai (neither English nor Thai language) tax return form to list as a deduction exempt foreign income per a DTA. (where Royal Decree-18 clearly states such tax exempt foreign income exists). I am not asking you for some tax advisors opinion. I want your explanation given your misleading posts.

Which is 'kinder' in regards to a DTA. That can be interesting to ponder. In regards to the German-Thai DTA, for German sourced (non-civil servant/non-military) pensions, only Thailand (and not Germany) can tax that pension. So if that German pension (being payed from 31-Dec-2023 onwards) is remitted to Thailand, I guess it then comes down to which country has the most deductions and lowest tax rate - in order to make an assessment as to whom is "kinder". I have never made the calculations myself (for as long as I have been a Thai tax resident, I have never yet remitted my German pension payments to Thailand).

Glad to read you are FINALLY changing your view here.

Wait for what paperwork? The 2024 English language Thai tax form? Again, not since 2017 (and I believe since 1969) has there been a place on a Thai tax form to list exemptions as a result of a DTA. That is a LOT of time. Clearly Revenue Department (RD) of Thailand would put such a field in the tax form if they wanted you to include such exempt income and then deduct such exempt income. NOTHING has changed in this regard ... its always been than any money remitted into Thailand in the year it was earned was potentially assessable and taxable (DTA dependent). Look at the 2024 Thai language version of the Thai tax form. There is no place for any DTA exemption. Why should the English language Thai tax form be different? In the past (year 2017 to 2023) the English language and Thai language Thai tax forms were not different in this regard, and DTAs were in existence then.

Case in point ... look at the Canada-Thai DTA: Clearly, ONLY Canada can tax such a pension. Thailand can not tax that income. It is ONLY taxable in Canada. If one then looks at Royal Decree-18 (year 1969) it notes such is exempt taxation per the revenue code. If one looks at Thailand tax forms (both Thai and English) there is no field to list such exempt income as being exempt. Why? For ? 50 years and no such field in a tax form ? Why? Clearly - it is because such Canadian pension income referenced in the quote does not fall under the Thai category of assessable income due to the DTA and Royal Decree. Which means if this pension income is the only income, the criteria for filing a Thai tax return is not met. Now other DTAs say DIFFERENT things, so one really really really needs to check the DTA (with Thailand) of the country from where their foreign income is sourced. You still have not admited your mistake re claiming only pre-1-Jan-2024 income is tax exempt. You still can not explain why the 2017 to 2024 (Thai language) and 2017 to 2023 (English language) Thai tax forms have no field for the deduction of DTA exempt income. .

You need to look at multiple documents. I have already shown you such.

This is only true for cases where both countries are allowed to tax an income. There are DTAs which clearly state only the source country is allowed to tax a DTA and the resident country has no taxation rights. One needs to be careful here in generalizations.

No. Not in my opinion. There is no place on a Thailand tax form to show such. Not since 2017 (and I believe since 1969) has there been a place on a Thai tax form to list exemptions as a result of a DTA. That is a LOT of time. Clearly Revenue Department (RD) of Thailand would put such a place if they wanted you to include and then deduct such income. NOTHING has changed in this regard ... its always been than any money remitted into Thailand in the year it was earned was potentially assessable and taxable (DTA dependent). There is a lot of paranoia here by some, looking at their specific DTA situation, and thinking it applies to everyone else.

Not exactly (re: tax filing). We have been through this. DTAs can list income that is exempt. ... Which may mean income that is exempt for both tax calculation and for considering one's assessable income. And if due to wording in a DTA (making income not taxable by Thailand) then such income is not assessable ... and if no other income, then one does not meet the assessable income requirement to file a Thai tax return. We have been through this before. It depends on the DTA and one's total assessable income.

Nominally , no. If pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign income is remitted into Thailand, it is exempt for Thai tax calculation and need not be included in a tax form, and hence no tax return needed. Reference Por.161.162 re: the exemption. However, if you have other income than just that, then the other income might mean you need to file a Thai tax return. That is my opinion/understanding.

One needs to be careful of differences in DTA. When it came to actually filing, while maybe using the USA-Thai DTA as a 'case study', the bottom line is (in your case I believe) the UK_Thai DTA ... and if it were me, I would pay very close attention to that, and pay far far less attention to the USA-Thai DTA. And frankly, so should Siam Legal. Its ... well ... lets just say it would be far better if only the UK-Thai DTA was considered by them in your case if you had no USA income.

You are quoting yourself there.

If you read that post, you likely can sense my uncertainty then. And not long after that I discovered/gave more thought to PID-95. And I realized my paranoia on this . And I updated my view. Something I believe you need to do. If I have any recommendation for you is: (a) do not include any civil service pension nor military pension in your Thai tax return if it is exclusively taxed in the UK (with no provision for Thailand to tax ) ... why ?? Because if such is exclusively taxed in the UK then there is no place in the Thai tax form to deduct such. However IF you have other income that is not tax exempt than DO INCLUDE such income, or if Thailand also allowed to tax your Military or Civil UK pension then do include such pensions. I don't know the ins/outs of the UK-Thai DTA. and (b) in posting, stick with matters re: UK tax (which I believe is your case) as your extrapolations are misleading in regards to other forum members who have a differnt financial situation.

I think I recall those posts of mine. They were at the very start, when I first started looking into this. I subsequently learned and revised my view that exempt income qualifies as exempt for tax calculation .... which means it does NOT go in a Tax return form (especially if there is no place for a tax form) and further it doesn't contribute to one's assessable income addition in trying to decide if one should submit a tax return. Why did I shift my view there? Because I saw PID.95 , which states income tax area for the LTR Visa Highly skilled professional in both the year 2023 and year 2024 Thai tax forms (Thai language), and in the year 2023 Thai tax form (English language). So clearly the Revenue Department knew of the LTR visa as in regards to the LTR-HSP visa there are entry fields in the Thai tax form for that visa. But how about the LTR-Wealthy Pensioner (WP), LTR-Wealthy Global Citizen (WGC), and LTR-Work From Thailand Professional (WFTP)? There is no entry in the tax form for their exemptions. Why ? The only logical explanation is such income is not only exempt for the purpose of a tax calculation, but also it should not be considered as assessable income. It became very clear then, I was most likely too paranoid about a tax return being needed. So I re-evaluated and corrected my view. Correcting one's view? That is something I believe you need to do.

I agree with that. Some of us (myself for example) went that approach and were told by the RD, we don't qualify for a TIN. They out right refused to give us a TIN, despite being into Thailand for >180 tax year days. Of course there are specific details here, which is why everyone should consider their specific details. Some should indeed get a tax ID given their financial situation. IMHO - good advice.