oldcpu

Which is 'kinder' in regards to a DTA. That can be interesting to ponder. In regards to the German-Thai DTA, for German sourced (non-civil servant/non-military) pensions, only Thailand (and not Germany) can tax that pension. So if that German pension (being payed from 31-Dec-2023 onwards) is remitted to Thailand, I guess it then comes down to which country has the most deductions and lowest tax rate - in order to make an assessment as to whom is "kinder". I have never made the calculations myself (for as long as I have been a Thai tax resident, I have never yet remitted my German pension payments to Thailand).

Glad to read you are FINALLY changing your view here.

Wait for what paperwork? The 2024 English language Thai tax form? Again, not since 2017 (and I believe since 1969) has there been a place on a Thai tax form to list exemptions as a result of a DTA. That is a LOT of time. Clearly Revenue Department (RD) of Thailand would put such a field in the tax form if they wanted you to include such exempt income and then deduct such exempt income. NOTHING has changed in this regard ... its always been than any money remitted into Thailand in the year it was earned was potentially assessable and taxable (DTA dependent). Look at the 2024 Thai language version of the Thai tax form. There is no place for any DTA exemption. Why should the English language Thai tax form be different? In the past (year 2017 to 2023) the English language and Thai language Thai tax forms were not different in this regard, and DTAs were in existence then.

Case in point ... look at the Canada-Thai DTA: Clearly, ONLY Canada can tax such a pension. Thailand can not tax that income. It is ONLY taxable in Canada. If one then looks at Royal Decree-18 (year 1969) it notes such is exempt taxation per the revenue code. If one looks at Thailand tax forms (both Thai and English) there is no field to list such exempt income as being exempt. Why? For ? 50 years and no such field in a tax form ? Why? Clearly - it is because such Canadian pension income referenced in the quote does not fall under the Thai category of assessable income due to the DTA and Royal Decree. Which means if this pension income is the only income, the criteria for filing a Thai tax return is not met. Now other DTAs say DIFFERENT things, so one really really really needs to check the DTA (with Thailand) of the country from where their foreign income is sourced. You still have not admited your mistake re claiming only pre-1-Jan-2024 income is tax exempt. You still can not explain why the 2017 to 2024 (Thai language) and 2017 to 2023 (English language) Thai tax forms have no field for the deduction of DTA exempt income. .

You need to look at multiple documents. I have already shown you such.

This is only true for cases where both countries are allowed to tax an income. There are DTAs which clearly state only the source country is allowed to tax a DTA and the resident country has no taxation rights. One needs to be careful here in generalizations.

No. Not in my opinion. There is no place on a Thailand tax form to show such. Not since 2017 (and I believe since 1969) has there been a place on a Thai tax form to list exemptions as a result of a DTA. That is a LOT of time. Clearly Revenue Department (RD) of Thailand would put such a place if they wanted you to include and then deduct such income. NOTHING has changed in this regard ... its always been than any money remitted into Thailand in the year it was earned was potentially assessable and taxable (DTA dependent). There is a lot of paranoia here by some, looking at their specific DTA situation, and thinking it applies to everyone else.

Not exactly (re: tax filing). We have been through this. DTAs can list income that is exempt. ... Which may mean income that is exempt for both tax calculation and for considering one's assessable income. And if due to wording in a DTA (making income not taxable by Thailand) then such income is not assessable ... and if no other income, then one does not meet the assessable income requirement to file a Thai tax return. We have been through this before. It depends on the DTA and one's total assessable income.

Nominally , no. If pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign income is remitted into Thailand, it is exempt for Thai tax calculation and need not be included in a tax form, and hence no tax return needed. Reference Por.161.162 re: the exemption. However, if you have other income than just that, then the other income might mean you need to file a Thai tax return. That is my opinion/understanding.

One needs to be careful of differences in DTA. When it came to actually filing, while maybe using the USA-Thai DTA as a 'case study', the bottom line is (in your case I believe) the UK_Thai DTA ... and if it were me, I would pay very close attention to that, and pay far far less attention to the USA-Thai DTA. And frankly, so should Siam Legal. Its ... well ... lets just say it would be far better if only the UK-Thai DTA was considered by them in your case if you had no USA income.

You are quoting yourself there.

If you read that post, you likely can sense my uncertainty then. And not long after that I discovered/gave more thought to PID-95. And I realized my paranoia on this . And I updated my view. Something I believe you need to do. If I have any recommendation for you is: (a) do not include any civil service pension nor military pension in your Thai tax return if it is exclusively taxed in the UK (with no provision for Thailand to tax ) ... why ?? Because if such is exclusively taxed in the UK then there is no place in the Thai tax form to deduct such. However IF you have other income that is not tax exempt than DO INCLUDE such income, or if Thailand also allowed to tax your Military or Civil UK pension then do include such pensions. I don't know the ins/outs of the UK-Thai DTA. and (b) in posting, stick with matters re: UK tax (which I believe is your case) as your extrapolations are misleading in regards to other forum members who have a differnt financial situation.

I think I recall those posts of mine. They were at the very start, when I first started looking into this. I subsequently learned and revised my view that exempt income qualifies as exempt for tax calculation .... which means it does NOT go in a Tax return form (especially if there is no place for a tax form) and further it doesn't contribute to one's assessable income addition in trying to decide if one should submit a tax return. Why did I shift my view there? Because I saw PID.95 , which states income tax area for the LTR Visa Highly skilled professional in both the year 2023 and year 2024 Thai tax forms (Thai language), and in the year 2023 Thai tax form (English language). So clearly the Revenue Department knew of the LTR visa as in regards to the LTR-HSP visa there are entry fields in the Thai tax form for that visa. But how about the LTR-Wealthy Pensioner (WP), LTR-Wealthy Global Citizen (WGC), and LTR-Work From Thailand Professional (WFTP)? There is no entry in the tax form for their exemptions. Why ? The only logical explanation is such income is not only exempt for the purpose of a tax calculation, but also it should not be considered as assessable income. It became very clear then, I was most likely too paranoid about a tax return being needed. So I re-evaluated and corrected my view. Correcting one's view? That is something I believe you need to do.

I agree with that. Some of us (myself for example) went that approach and were told by the RD, we don't qualify for a TIN. They out right refused to give us a TIN, despite being into Thailand for >180 tax year days. Of course there are specific details here, which is why everyone should consider their specific details. Some should indeed get a tax ID given their financial situation. IMHO - good advice.

Best wishes in your tax submission. For anyone else reading such - Be VERY careful in believing what Cyclist assesses. He makes mistakes in his posts and refuses to admit such. He claimed the only exempt foreign remitted income is that from before 1-Jan-2024. He refuses to admit his mistake. He refuses to admit that income noted in a DTA that is exclusively taxable by the source country is tax exempt, despite what a Royal Decree states. He thinks he knows more than those who post the Royal Decrees, I guess. He has no explanation as to why there is no place in any Thai tax form going back to 2017 (and likely going back to 1969) has any place to list exempt income (which the Royal Decree 18 notes there is such exempt income). Exempt foreign income that Cyclist denies exists (as Cyclist claims the only exempt income is that from before 1-Jan-2024). Consider such very carefully if you wish to follow his views.

I am not posting here only for myself - but I do have expat friends not as fortunate as myself, who are trying to sort their requirements. Misleading advice does not help them. Do what is best for you. And please, share your experiences as I hope those in similar situations can benefit from your experience. But please, don't extrapolate and claim only pre-1-Jan-2024 income is tax exempt. I think we both know that is wrong. Please don't ignore the fact that there is no place in any Thai tax form to list income (in an exemption list) that a particular DTA may note is exclusively taxable in the foreign source country (which Royal Decree 18 defines as being exempt income). And please ask why would there be no place in a Thai tax form for 50 years to list such exempt income in an exemption list?

Possibly this belongs in another thread, and I think I mentioned it, but thinking back, I am very impressed with the Phuket Department of Transport licensing section's staff. There are so many people going to that government building for licences, that the line goes far far out of the building's aircondioned area, along the side of the building (in the heat/sun) and around the corner. As one might expect, the people waiting can get tired and short of temper at time ... maybe a bit grumpy/bitchy. The staff at that office are incredibly professional and polite, and so if one is polite and professional in return, they do seem to try harder to help one, within the restrictions of what they are legally permitted to do. While I dread visiting that facility due to the lines, the quality and expertise of the people working there does help a lot to make up for the waiting.

NO. i am taking it up with you for misleading. If you wish to continue with your misleading statements, you should take such up FIRST with certified, qualified and Licensed Tax Accountant. ... and ONLY then noting a solid reference (and not a video which does not cover that which is under discussion) post such views. As it is you are a disruption to some who are trying to understand their legal tax obligations in Thailand.

Re: your misleading: Since Royal Decree 18 came out, making it clear that there are cases where foreign income is tax exempt per the Thai revenue code , there to the best of my knowledge (and clearly since year 2017) been no place in the Thai tax return forms, under exemptions, to list exempt income that are exempt per the DTA/Royal Decree combination. Why do you believe that is? Do you think for almost 1/2 century the Thai revenue department has made a mistake in their exemptions list? You have failed to address that. Totally failed. Further you incorrectly claim the only foreign remited income that is tax exempt is that pre-1-Jan-2024. Again - you are misleading. Or perhaps are you finally willing to admit, that income that is noted as exempt in a Royal Decree (when referencing the DTAs) is not to be considered assessable income. Further , if it is not to be considered assessable income, then it does not come into the calculation for whether a Thai tax return is needed.

No - he is not misleadng. You are.

This is more than just semantics. It is misleading people in regards to their tax obligations. That is IMHO rather serious.

Its a good video - but he does not cover in any sort of appropriate (clarifying) detail the aspects were are discussing/debating in this thread (re exempt income per royal decrees being tax exempt). EDIT: Further, if you read the comments to that video similar discussions as to what we are seeing in AseanNow threads are taking place. That video clarifies nothing.

There is no such rule. Maybe in year 3023 but that is 1000 years away.

Yes , indeed there is ...to use with PID.90: and it also has no field suitable to list exemption per por-161/162, DTAs, nor LTR visa. Check one's self to confirm what I state: Thai tax forms (English language) https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html Thai tax forms (Thai language): https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

??? What tax rule? por.161.162 came out in 2023 (not last year). Those are Thai RD ministerial directives ... and they did NOT, under any interpretation, state: So you have me very curious. What tax rule are you referring to? Once again, I am aware of no such new rule.