oldcpu

I suspect many foreigners who don't read this web site, when they show up at their local RD to get a Thai TIN, will find out the policy of their local RD, which may (or may not) be no TIN provided and do not file a tax return. or it may be here is a TIN and please do file a tax return. I also suspect some Thai local RD offices might initially get their assessment wrong, but I speculate as time goes by, the accuracy of assessment of the local Thai RD in evaluating the need to file a tax return (for the situation of different foreigners) will improve.

This is correct according to Royal Decree 743 (section-5) for 3 categories of the LTR, those being Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work From Thailand Professional. Some are trying to (IMHO) misinterpret the Royal Decree and claim it depends on the tax year of the income that is remitted, but my view is it makes no difference. That is not to say an UNKNOWN future change in Thailand tax policy won't come about and change things - but we can only do the best we can with the information we have to date. The sky might fall also tomorrow. .

In the past - this certificate was only enforced for those entering or leaving Thailand. It was not enforced for extensions. After a while, the need for the certificate was dropped and ignored by immigration. Sure, this could happen - and this would be a way to try and enforce taxation , ... but will it happen? Who knows. For certain I don't know (where I am skeptical that it will happen). Agree.

A Benjamin Hart opinion video on American taxation. Hah !! Aside from the American's - who cares? Further, note one of the very first word from him is that this is an opinion video. My view - is if not an American, don't waste one second of your time watching such - and second for the Americans, note the video source - and then search this forum to understand the view of many on this forum in regards to posts from that source.

Ask her to make a screen print of the TM30 entry with your name on it. That (a screenprint) was accepted at the Phuket Immigration office a few years back.

false

Well ... individuals face no fines from CRS. That doesn't mean that national governments could then not fine individuals. I believe CRS requirements will be flowed down to the national level , and fines structured accordingly. Having typed that, don't believe the scaremongering hype of some about what CRS demands. Such hype is unfounded opinion, and when asked for official OECD references they don't post any. Why? Because there is none - and its easier for them to post unfounded scare mongering.

I don't think you are paranoid. In my case, I previous planned for such an eventuality as this 'uncertainty' period, and while a non-resident moved a fair amount of money to Thailand, which can pay for my lifestyle here for a few years without replenishment. So at present I remit no money to Thailand. I am also on an LTR visa. and I reside here for just under 300 days per taxation year. Speak for yourself. I am not keen on paying $3000 USD in Thailand taxes - given I not need legally pay any to Thailand in the current circumstances. I have invested in Thailand (condo , Thai government bonds) and I pay Thailand VAT. A lot of the posts here on this forum about OECD CRS requirements are unfounded scare mongering. Best to conduct one's own research and not believe the scaremongering posts. .

If the pension comes from overseas, then I would say yes. In the case of Thailand, my understanding is 'pensions' are treated as 'income'. Although having typed that, note that Thai Tax code article 42 lists exempt income that is not to be included in tax calculations, where income exempt due to ministerial regulations are not to be included in Thai tax calculations. One the needs to accurately assess if their overseas income (in particular pensions) are exempt due to Thai ministerial regulations. In some cases they are exempt, in other cases they are not exempt. For example, Canada's DTA (Double Tax Agreement) with Thailand states Canada has exclusive taxation rights on Canadian pensions (for Canadian pension receipt by those who are tax residents of Thailand). In contrast, German's DTA with Thailand states Thailand has exclusive taxation rights on German pensions (for German pension receipt by those who are residents of Thailand). There are of course other relevant ministerial regulations.

For example, both the Thailand and Canada faq on CRS implementation aspects for their countries, while noting in general that Financial Institutions accounts for individuals need to be reported to OECD per CRS, also note that government regulated accounts are not reported to CRS. For example such government regulated accounts in Canada include (but are not restricted to) Registered Retirement Savings Plans (RRSPs) and Registered Retirement Income Funds (RRIFs). Money in RRSPs and RRIFs are allowed to grow tax free by Canadian law. However when one is taking money out of the RRIFs and RRSPs, one must then pay tax to Canada on such withdrawals, and one must file a Canadian Income tax return. The Thailand FAQ re: CRS also notes Thailand government regulated funds for individuals are not reported to CRS.

No Paw.161/162 did not do such. Those documents only refer to income remitted into Thailand, with 1-Jan-2024 being a demarcation date. There is no Thailand tax on global income if not remitted to Thailand. Further, there is no requirement by Thailand to list global income due to CRS requirements, despite what some on this forum inaccurately post. .

We are hoping you can last much longer with a very healthy and mobile life - and able to enjoy and appreciate the great things in life. I suspect (possibly like you) that when the 10 years of my LTR is over , and if LTR still available, I need to decide: do I go for another 10 years, or simply revert back to a Type-O (with annual extensions) ? Possibly by then an agent will appeal to me more which will drive up the Type-O annual extension costs, and I may still stay with the LTR visa. ... Taxation may also be an issue then, although that is far in the future, and given TIT, who knows?

Not entirely - but there is nothing in CRS rules about requiring countries to report individual's global income. Further, CRS rules even exempt government regulated accounts for individuals.

So - you have no reference. You fail to post such. I want to point out to EVERYONE else reading this thread, that Cyclist is simply fabricating a CRS requirement that does not exist, because he believes such makes sense. I recommend any who are seriously considering what he states ,to go research this , so you can better appreciate the fabrication (ie incorrect statement) of CRS (over reach) requirement that Cyclist claims.

I suspect as you already know, that document has tax year 2023 hard printed. its not nominally for tax year 2024. My speculation thou is the year 2024 tax form may be very similar to that of the year 2023 tax form. Further, that 2023 tax form has no location in that form for remitted income exempt due to LTR visa, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt due to DTA agreements, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt if covered under Paw-161/162. What does that tell us? For those curious, take a look at Thai Tax code article 42. Note that income covered (and noted as exempt) by ministerial regulations are not to be included in tax calculations. ie such income is not-assessable. Thailand tax forms are only for assessable income. Ergo such income is not to be included in a tax form - IMHO.

I previously posted, this has nothing to do with CRS. Canada was taxing global income (for Canadian residents) as far back as 1972 when I first started filing Canadian income tax return. It was decades later before Canada became involved with OECD / CRS (2015 in case curious). You are confusing different things here. Again -where is your official OECD reference here? Don't waste your time looking. There is none.

I have elderly (in the mid-70s to early 80s) friends on type-O non-immigrant visa who purely for the convenience use an agent (where they meet all immigration requirements but they don't want to suffer through lines or waits at immigration). I don't begrudge them that and I believe for them such is a good idea. I note you also use an agent to avoid the 800k in the bank - I won't repeat my reply there that I posted elsewhere on that aspect. But if one is thinking of an agent strictly because they want to avoid obtaining a Thailand tax clearance certificate, my view is that it is premature to look for an agent for that reason. A number of reports of expats who have very recently gone for 1-year extensions on their permission to stay (on their underlying type-O visa) have noted there was no requirement for such a certificate. So its premature to look for agent to handle a 'tax clearance certificate" aspect.

Really? Where will you get that from? Have you read what the Thai RD has on that? Let me make it easy for you ... here is the reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html If you read that, you will note that it is for entering/leaving Thailand. Not for extensions. Currently, as written, those who stay in Thailand and never leave never have to produce such. Also, from what I have read, it has been dormant for years. On the books. But no longer in use. So likely Thailand has to update such, if they wish to apply such. Perhaps they will - but they have not done so yet, .... they have not even hinted that they are considering such (which given how often they like to explore publicly ideas that never come to pass is, shall I say, unusual if they intend to go the 'tax certificate' route)? But who knows. TiT.

No. i doubt they talk to each other nominally. And if they did ... I don't care. I am fine with that. I am even happy to remind them of that if they forget. As long as one legally follows Thai law in regards to taxation then one should be fine. That is what I do, and in particular I try my best to properly research the tax code and the ministerial regulations and directives so to better manage my own tax exposure.

I have had some VERY minor benefits. The one big benefit was there were a number of occasions where I was required to provide a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN). One case was where I needed to buy Thai government bonds (which I needed to do in order to get the last bit of my investment in Thailand for an LTR visa) the Bangkok Bank branch manager advised he would only permit such if I had a yellow book or pink-ID. Then when the bank teller was entering the information in the computer (at the bank) for me to buy bonds, the system required a TIN. Without that the teller could not progress. I provide my pink-ID #. The computer happily accepted that. I did get my bonds, and I did get my LTR visa. I consider that significant. I had two bank accounts frozen on me (trading account and registered savings account) in Canada, when the Canadian bank discovered I was now a Thailand resident. To unfreeze they insisted on receiving a Thai TIN (or visit Canada in person). I provided them my pink-ID # as the tax ID#, and they unfroze my account. Unfreezing was significant - however that is not the full story. Although unfrozen they would only let me sell stocks and stay in cash (because I was a non-resident to Canada). So I transferred my accounts to a different Canadian organisation that would let me have a trading account and trade stocks. However they also wanted a Thai TIN. I provided them my pink-ID # as the tax ID#, and they allowed me to open the new accounts. That was significant (it was partly timely as I subsequently did well in the markets with that new account). Now I actually tried to get a Thai TIN, but I failed as Phuket Revenue Department (RD) would not provide me one. However the Phuket RD did note that my pink-ID could be my tax ID, but that they would not yet activate it (as I did not meet their requirements for having a tax ID). I should note as well, that in the above noted cases of Canadian Financial Institutions, where I used my pink-ID as a tax-ID, I also added a caveat that the number I provided was from a Thai-ID card and that it was not yet activated as a tax-ID. Regardless - for me this was all very significant (involving 6-figure sums of money that I would not have made on the market had I not succeeded in trading again). All other cases where the ID came in handy were trivial in comparison, but there were some.

Good question. Its been a few years since I filled in any forms in regards to my Bangkok Bank accounts (separate Bangkok Bank accounts for currencies: Thai Baht, Euro, US$, Canadian$) - but I don't recall such from them being required. Having typed that, my read of a PDF file on the Thai RD site, indicates that Thailand Financial Institutions will eventually require Financial institutions to contact their account holders to get some additional information (if anything other than TIN I can't recall what else - maybe passport info which they have aleady) in order to submit such to the CRS. Thus far, Bangkok Bank has not contacted me (unless - i did so years back and don't recall).

That is nothing more than opinion. We have been through this over and over multiple times. I even researched information on both the Thai and Canadian information articles describing their compliance needed for CRS. NONE of those mention anything about overseas income. If you can't find a proper OECD reference regarding the CRS in regards to overseas income reporting, then you really should preference your posts to make it clear this is only your opinion. In my opinion you are unintentionally spreading false information with that opinion (as you actually believe your opinion true with no OECD/CRS references to support such an opinion, and with both Thai and Canadian info sheets on CRS saying nothing about such). In fact, both Thai and Canadian faq sheet make it clear that information on some resident accounts (in those countries) that are government regulated are not to be provided to the OECD via CRS.

I hear you ... i read what you note. But I think we both know the current practice is different in cases involving some foreigners. My wife had the view (likely incorrect) that I needed a TIN even thou my income not assessable. I did not know what was correct. She applied online for a tax ID for me (via some Thai language site). She had to upload my passport, pink-ID, etc ... and provided other information on me. This goes to the Central RD office in Bangkok. Guess what they do? .... I'll tell you. They pass the application to Phuket RD. What did Phuket RD do? They called my wife and I up on the phone (my wife answered and talked to them). They noted they would not give me a tax ID even thou I was spending > 180 days in Thailand (closer to 300 days per year in Thailand) as I was not remitting income to Thailand. But ... but ... but what about "CRS" that some post on-and-on-and-on about (not you posting that - granted). It was never mentioned. I don't think the Phuket RD (to which Bangkok RD delegated this to) cares less about CRS for individuals. So ? Bangkok RD passes this to the local office to decide. I don't dispute what you typed ... but the facts are also that neither the HQ Bangkok RD nor the local provincial RD will provide myself tax-ID at this time. I am not saying do not file an income tax return nor am I saying don't go try to get a Thai TIN. I am saying I tried and failed (with full disclosure to them as to my finances). Everyone needs to decide on their own approach.

Yes - true that Canada requires one to report their global income, but if one is not a Canadian resident one does NOT have to pay to Canada tax on one's global income (if a non-resident to Canada). Canada joined CRS when? In 2015. ok? Canada going back to 1972 !!!!! (when I first started filing Canadian income tax returns) required global income be reported by Canadian tax residents. There was no CRS then. Canada requiring global tax to be reported never has had anything to do with CRS. Anyone who tells you otherwise has never properly researched this. They are just putting out blind and badly formulated opinions IMHO.

... and go a step further please and read what needs to be reported. There is no FULL disclosure. Both Thailand and Canada, per CRS agreement are NOT required to provide any information on government monitored/registered accounts. In Canada this refers to RRSPs and RRIFs and some other registered Canadian government approved accounts for Canadian residents or Canadian citizens (including those abroad) to place their money and have it grow tax free. There is MASSIVE wrong extrapolation on the views of CRS by some , believing it has massive over-reach far more than what is the truth. .