oldcpu

Royal Decree-18 came out in 2009 (?) noting DTAs could make some income exempt. Yet from 2019 to 2023 there was no field in any Thai Tax form, neither English nor Thai language, to include in the exemption list foreign tax exempt income (per DTA) remitted in the year it was earned. This was LONG before 2024. Further, DTA exemptions can affect MORE than just foreigners. They can also in some cases be relevant to Thai people in Thailand. Further, if you examine the English and Thai language tax forms side by side, year by year , they are pretty much very close to the same. The year 2024 (and year 2025) Thai language tax forms have no such entry. So you can hold your breath waiting for the English language 2024 Thai tax forms, but if I had to wager, ... I believe just like the Thai language forms, there will be no inclusion in the income exempt area, for income exempt by DTAs. There was no entry in 2017, nor 2018, nor 2019, nor 2020, nor 2021, nor 2022, nor 2023 (nor the Thai 2024) so I do not believe there will be in 2024 English language form. Plus, I can not help but suspect that when the 2024 tax form in English language comes out, and if like the previous 2017 to 2023 the exemption list has nothing for DTA, that you will not change your view.

Not USA.Not Canada. Not Germany. I guess you don't consider those countries civilized? Or maybe you simply have not researched this. Citizens DO have more privileges than resident aliens.

No one is saying don't comply with Thai laws. So I have no idea where you are going there. Rather I am saying to comply with Thai law, the exempt income that i noted (DTA exempt and LTR exempt) are not to be included in a tax form. That does NOT go against Thai laws, and the Royal Decrees and also Thailand tax forms omissions (of such as exempt income for deductions) confirms that such income is exempt for purposes of tax calculation (and not to be included on a tax form).

We agree with all that. I think you miss my point. Where we disagree is what 'exempt' means in the context of cases where a DTA may state only the other country (not Thailand) can tax a certain income ... which Royal Decree 18 confirms means such is exempt Thai tax. I interpret that as meaning 'exempt for calculation of tax' (and hence similar to por.161/162 it does not go on a tax form). Further I support my interpretation based on deliberate omissions in official Thailand tax forms going back to year 2017 (and possibly to 2009) . As far as I can read, you have yet to explain why you believe there is no entry in any Thailand tax form to list in exemptions any exempt income in DTAs (per Royal Decree-18) .

The head person at the Phuket office was very polite and true to her word, she called the head office in Bangkok, and has had the policy straightened. Frankly - I am impressed (favourably) with the professionalism of all the workers at the Phuket Department of Transportation Office. i can go tomorrow to the office and pick up my International Driver's Licence. I now need to contact BoI and advise them this has been sorted.

OK ... Then we still differ. My intepretation - which is I believe the same as the Thai RD, is that 'exempt income" cases noted (DTA exempt per Royal Decree wording and LTR exempt also per Royal Decree wording) is the same as 'exempt for taxation calculations". We have already had confirmed that remitted income exempt from tax, per por.161/162 is not to be included in a Thai tax form. So same wording ... 'exempt' ... Same treatment in the Thai tax return forms (both English and Thai language) where there is NO mention in the tax return forms of such as being an exemption . None. Not one word. Where that strongly suggests that exempt income is "exempt for tax calculation purposes and it is not to be included in a tax form... Yet you still believe it should be filed. Ok - fine - that is your view. But I do not understand why you ignore what is very clear in the Thai tax forms going back to year 2017 (the furthest I looked back) and probably going back to the year Ministerial Decree 18 was issued (2009 ?? < unsure > ). If such was to be included for tax filing as an exemption (where it is exempt) there would be a place on the Thai tax form for such. There is no place. What do you believe is the reason for that omission in ALL of the Thai tax forms?

International Driver's Licence denied by provincial Department of Transport as they considered LTR visa a tourist visa. I kid you not. My International Driver's licence, which I previously obtained from the provincial Department of Transport (based on my 5-year Thailand driver's licence) expires in February. In March I fly to Australia, and the rental car company in Perth advised me I must have an International Driver's licence. I went to the Phuket Department of Transport today and I was denied an International Driver's licence (to replace my existing one) because I am on an LTR visa, which this Department of Transport claims they were instructed by the main Department of Transport to treat like a tourist visa. And since they treat like a tourist Visa they: (1) will not issue an International Driver's Licence based on my Thai driver's licence, and (2) when my current Thai driver's licence expires in 2027 , they will NOT allow me to renew it for 5-years. Instead they will require me to switch to a 2 year temporary driver's licence. However, they advised if I was still on a Type-O or Type-OA visa, they would allow me to get an International Driver's Licence and they would (in 2027) allow me to renew my Thailand driver's licence for 5 years. Why? Because they have been instructed to treat the LTR visa as a Tourist Visa. After a LONG chat with whom we believe to be the head of this provincial Department of Transport office, we agreed: (a) they would double check with the main Department of Transport office, and if advised otherwise, they would contact my wife (and if in that case, I could return and apply again for an International Driver's license). (b) I would contact BOI and advise them of this Department of Transport office policy toward LTR visa holders having less driver's license privileges than Type-O/OA visa holders. I went to the BoI web page's contact page ... and it refuses to accept email addresses. So one can not contact via that page. The BoI webpage has a bug! ... lol. So I used one of my previous BoI email addresses (which is NOT the correct BoI email , but its the best I could do) and I requested they conctact the Thailand Department of Transport so to give LTR visa holders at least equal privileges for Thailand driving licences as Type-O/OA non-immigrant Visa holders. If I hear no reply in a few days, I will phone BoI. = = = EDIT - This has been sorted. Please see post below

You filed your last tax return last Thurday, and you have not been filing as an expatriate. ... Are you filing as a permanent resident, or as a non-resident, or as a Thai citizen?

I am trying (unsuccessfully) to understand your view here. If a DTA, to which Thailand signs, states a particular pension is ONLY taxable in the source country (which is not Thailand), that you still believe that pension is STILL taxable in Thailand (despite wording in the DTA and wording in Ministerial Decree 18 which covers DTAs) ? If so, you and I have very different opinions. I believe my view matches that of the Thai revenue department, in part because given a Royal Decree notes the income is exempt (as per DTA wording) and given that there has since 2017 never been a place on a Thai tax form (neither English nor Thai language) to list exemptions for DTA income/pensions (for cases where DTA states only a non-Thailand country can tax said income/pension).

We now have examples that savings from before 1-Jan-2024 ( as covered by por-161/162) which are noted as exempt tax, need not be included in one's Thai tax return and if these are the only income then no tax return is required. These incomes don't fall under the assessable income category due to their exemptions. So they are not to be included in the tax calculation. With this in mind, note, there was nothing in the Thai language 2024 Thai tax return form to list such por-161/162 remitted money as an exemption. I have come around to the view that the same treatment is likely true for selected DTA exempt remitted income where in some cases the DTA notes only the foreign source country has taxation rights ( as there is no place in any tax form going back many years ( since the issue of Royal Decree 18) to today) to list such as an exemption in the Thai tax return form. i.e. such exempt remitted income is likely not supposed to be included in a Thai tax return. Further I note there is no place in the English language 2023 Thai tax forms for exemptions per the Royal Decree (for selected LTR visa holders). Again, I speculate such tax exempt remitted income is likely not supposed to be included in a Thai tax return. Which also implies if these remitted incomes are the only income then no Thai tax return is required. This still probably needs watching but I believe we are seeing a trend here supporting the non-assessable income viewpoint ( ie income exempt from including in a tax calculation) need not be included in a Thai income tax return, and if such is the only income then no Thai tax return is required.

Thanks. One takeaway I have from the above is you also have a small amount of assessable local Thai income ( interest) which factors into the tax return filing consideration.

Most countries do not treat tax payers equal. Many countries tax non-citzens who are resident and do not give those non-residents all the privileges of citizens. If you don't believe me you need to research this some more.

A counter-point may be that Thailand, if it were to adopt policy of other countries, allowing foreigners to buy land, would drive the price so high that local Thai people could not afford. So this restriction was put in place. Take a look at prices in London UK, and then research the views as to what was a big contributing factor in driving up the prices such that locals can hardly (or not at all) afford such. There is a European country (Spain ? Portugal ? ) where recently the press suggests has now something like a 100% tax on property price (?) for any foreigner wishing to buy. So all is not equal globally for expatriates in comparison to citizens of a country. This is one of the global downsides of being an expatriate. One can not expect equality with the citizenry in all aspects. Like it or not as a non-citizen, when comparing oneself to the locals, citizenship does bring privileges.

Not every one is taxed. DTAs with many countries prevent double taxation. The tax that many pay is less than that of their income source country. Medical/hospitals are good quality and a fraction of the cost of other countries. In other countries medical costs bankrupt some. And a wealth tax is looming? Yes, and the sky falling is looming also. Trucks that might run us over on the highway are looming also. My visa is good for ten years. No 90 day reports (instead one year reports). No yearly visa renewals. So you wish to drive a vehicle on dirt roads? Do you wish no electricity infrastructure? Guess what ... taxes help pay for that (its not all pay as you use). Shall we have only the Thai citizens pay for that infrastructure while expats just thumb their nose at those who pay for such? The world is a big place. As harsh as this sounds, if this is not the place for you, then travel find a better place. Many of us dream of traveling, so go for the traveling dream.

Apologies - I can't recall and you probably already stated .. but do you currently work in Thailand or have assessable Thai income over the RD tax filing threshold in 2023 and 2024? For the year 2024 tax filing, do you receive year 2024 foreign pension income or other year 2024 foreign income from abroad that you remitted to Thailand? ... and what does the DTA with Thailand say in regards to Thailand being able to tax that foreign remitted income? Did you bring any pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign savings into Thailand during 2024? And if you did remit foreign income into Thailand in 2024 did you assess it as assessable and still manage to find a field on the tax form to deduct it ? (as there is no place to exempt on a tax form that I could find). Or simply legally (IMHO) assess it as non-assessable and hence in such a case the remitted income should not be included in tax calculation (IMHO)? If too private ... no need to answer. I appreciate that talking about finances can be a sensitive manner. I am just trying to understand better your tax situation (with both tax filing and tax refunds in some cases).

Just more paperwork IMHO. As noted elsewhere in this forum, I won't be filing a Thai tax return for 2024 calendar/tax year per direction of a Thai RD official. But if i did , to pass a Thai bank record, given my massive number of withdrawals, would be close to two dozen pages . In the case of 2023 (if it were relevant which it is not) at most there would be 2 or 3 large remittances from outside of Thailand. The other ~20 pages would be many many many local withdrawls for payments in Thailand (as I rarely use cash but almost always use bank transfer). It would be a PIA for the RD to go through. I guess if it was me, I would mark up each page with a page number (if not already) and on first page note which pages had the few remittance to Thailand (via an edit) and then flag the remittances with a big red arrow (on the page where the few remittances were). The intent to make it easier for the RD to spot my legal tax free remittances. It would thou, as I noted, be a big PIA for the RD official to dig through. Brings to my mind a saying in regards to RD asking for this .... "Be careful what you ask for". .

I hope that I am on the TRD radar. I asked they provide me a TIN and they denied me one. I hope that they remember such.

I discovered mostly (but not totally) the same. I think (re; the tax code) "exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation" means non assessable (in the words of 'non-Thai' expatriates) ... and even just 'tax exempt' is considered 'non assessable' in the view of many (similar in some cases to 'exempt for the purposes of income tax calculation' even if not specifically stated ... which I note, does appear to be supported by what looks to be a deliberate omission (by the Thai RD) of different categories of common exempt income that is tax exempt, as note in Royal Decrees (such as LTR), in ministerial instructions (such as por.161/162) and in selected DTAs. Why would the RD DELIBERATELY (caps intended by me to make a point) omit an exempt entry field in a tax return form, if a DTA ,or if a Royal Decree or a ministerial exemption says such can be an exempt deduction? Why? IMHO that clearly suggests such exempt income is not to be reported. It disappointing to see the lack of clarity and see the confusion here. I do believe that anyone who reports remitted income that is 100% exempt tax (due to DTAs) on their tax return, or remitted income that is 100% exempt tax (due to por.161/162) on their tax return, or remitted income that is 100% tax exempt (due to Royal Decree) on their tax return, will still be mistakenly taxed on such because there is no place on the tax returns to list such as an exemption. This is true for the 2023 Thai tax return in English language and this is true for the 2024 tax return in Thai language. I speculate that those who put such exemptions in the tax return, in the wrong field (and there is no good field), will I believe have such exemptions denied, and will pay tax on income that is tax exempt. Then one is into appeal territory. And good luck with that.

The answers did appear to meander around this question and not address it head on. I note comments are turned off on the video. That was strange. Clearly they don't want feedback nor more questions. The video jumps around a bit. I skimmed through some of the video and did not watch it all. From what I could decipher - tax free income is treated as non assessable income (although those specific words were not consistently chosen): - Income from before 1-Jan-2024 is tax free (ie non assessable - my words). Hence this is not to be included on a tax form. But one should keep records to prove this. - For pension income, it depends on each country (DTA) whether the income is tax free or taxable (ie non-assessable or assessable) - my interpretation of what was being said in the video. Also the foreign source of the pension income is important if it is taxable or tax free. If the income is tax free (non assessable) by Thailand (ie my words: if DTA claims only source country can tax), it does not go on a tax form. At least that is what I deciphered. Draw one's own conclusions from watching. - For foreign pensions remitted to Thailand, if both the foreign country and Thailand can tax the income (per a DTA), then even if one has already paid tax in the foreign country, one still needs to apply for a tax ID and file a Thai tax return. Then the appropriate rebates/credits can take place (that is my wording). This IMHO is well known and not disputed on this forum. Inheritance and gifts, if remitted to Thailand are not taxable. Personal assets (such as a car outside of Thailand) from before 1-Jan-2024 sold and brought into Thailand, are not taxable. But evidence is required to prove. Again, the video jumped around, so do not believe what I typed/interpreted. I recommend do not believe what I typed. Try and watch this one's self. Message is clear for assessable income that is not tax free and not tax exempt. And that is not new news. However most of the discussions on this thread and others is about income made non assessable due to tax exemptions (such as por-161/162 and some DTAs (not all DTAs)). Again, the video jumped around, so do not believe what I typed/interpreted. I recommend do not believe what I typed. Try and watch this one's self. Frankly - I am very disappointed with the video as it was not as clear as would have been more helpful.

i won't get into semantics. I do recommend you go back to the tax office and get another assessment before you file any 2024 tax return, if the DTA with your country states only your country can tax your pension ,and if you have no Thai income and if you remitted that DTA specified non-Thai taxable income into Thailand. As I typed before, if you do not double check this with an RD official who does not make a mistake (like the last one) you could end up being taxed on income that is tax exempt. This is your call obviously - but I fear you are headed down the wrong path. However you don't seem to be concerned - so obviously, feel free to adopt your own approach. For others thou, i don't recommend your approach (if their income is noted in a DTA as only being taxed in the source country, which is not Thailand).

You had me wondering. Your post was ambiguous.

I am mostly in the same situation. I even had a Phuket RD official tell me (via my wife) not to file a Thai tax return (nor would he give me a TIN). But things can change - and so I try to understand the current tax regulations. Indeed. A very good point.

That should not be a worry if people follow Thai law. Compared to Canada (and for that matter Germany), Thailand has a pretty nice tax law.

Ok ... then why did you go to the RD office? When my wife talked to the RD on my behalf, the VERY FIRST thing they asked, was I a tax resident? Had I been in Thailand for 180 days or greater? Then they asked, what were the source(s) of my income. I am surprised an RD official took the time to fill in a draft tax form for you, given that you are not a tax resident. .

That is very easy for the Thai RD to find the truth if they wanted. All they have to do is ask for certain Canadian documents as proof, and then watch anyone lying back peddle really really fast.