oldcpu

I think I recall those posts of mine. They were at the very start, when I first started looking into this. I subsequently learned and revised my view that exempt income qualifies as exempt for tax calculation .... which means it does NOT go in a Tax return form (especially if there is no place for a tax form) and further it doesn't contribute to one's assessable income addition in trying to decide if one should submit a tax return. Why did I shift my view there? Because I saw PID.95 , which states income tax area for the LTR Visa Highly skilled professional in both the year 2023 and year 2024 Thai tax forms (Thai language), and in the year 2023 Thai tax form (English language). So clearly the Revenue Department knew of the LTR visa as in regards to the LTR-HSP visa there are entry fields in the Thai tax form for that visa. But how about the LTR-Wealthy Pensioner (WP), LTR-Wealthy Global Citizen (WGC), and LTR-Work From Thailand Professional (WFTP)? There is no entry in the tax form for their exemptions. Why ? The only logical explanation is such income is not only exempt for the purpose of a tax calculation, but also it should not be considered as assessable income. It became very clear then, I was most likely too paranoid about a tax return being needed. So I re-evaluated and corrected my view. Correcting one's view? That is something I believe you need to do.

I agree with that. Some of us (myself for example) went that approach and were told by the RD, we don't qualify for a TIN. They out right refused to give us a TIN, despite being into Thailand for >180 tax year days. Of course there are specific details here, which is why everyone should consider their specific details. Some should indeed get a tax ID given their financial situation. IMHO - good advice.

Best wishes in your tax submission. For anyone else reading such - Be VERY careful in believing what Cyclist assesses. He makes mistakes in his posts and refuses to admit such. He claimed the only exempt foreign remitted income is that from before 1-Jan-2024. He refuses to admit his mistake. He refuses to admit that income noted in a DTA that is exclusively taxable by the source country is tax exempt, despite what a Royal Decree states. He thinks he knows more than those who post the Royal Decrees, I guess. He has no explanation as to why there is no place in any Thai tax form going back to 2017 (and likely going back to 1969) has any place to list exempt income (which the Royal Decree 18 notes there is such exempt income). Exempt foreign income that Cyclist denies exists (as Cyclist claims the only exempt income is that from before 1-Jan-2024). Consider such very carefully if you wish to follow his views.

I am not posting here only for myself - but I do have expat friends not as fortunate as myself, who are trying to sort their requirements. Misleading advice does not help them. Do what is best for you. And please, share your experiences as I hope those in similar situations can benefit from your experience. But please, don't extrapolate and claim only pre-1-Jan-2024 income is tax exempt. I think we both know that is wrong. Please don't ignore the fact that there is no place in any Thai tax form to list income (in an exemption list) that a particular DTA may note is exclusively taxable in the foreign source country (which Royal Decree 18 defines as being exempt income). And please ask why would there be no place in a Thai tax form for 50 years to list such exempt income in an exemption list?

Possibly this belongs in another thread, and I think I mentioned it, but thinking back, I am very impressed with the Phuket Department of Transport licensing section's staff. There are so many people going to that government building for licences, that the line goes far far out of the building's aircondioned area, along the side of the building (in the heat/sun) and around the corner. As one might expect, the people waiting can get tired and short of temper at time ... maybe a bit grumpy/bitchy. The staff at that office are incredibly professional and polite, and so if one is polite and professional in return, they do seem to try harder to help one, within the restrictions of what they are legally permitted to do. While I dread visiting that facility due to the lines, the quality and expertise of the people working there does help a lot to make up for the waiting.

NO. i am taking it up with you for misleading. If you wish to continue with your misleading statements, you should take such up FIRST with certified, qualified and Licensed Tax Accountant. ... and ONLY then noting a solid reference (and not a video which does not cover that which is under discussion) post such views. As it is you are a disruption to some who are trying to understand their legal tax obligations in Thailand.

Re: your misleading: Since Royal Decree 18 came out, making it clear that there are cases where foreign income is tax exempt per the Thai revenue code , there to the best of my knowledge (and clearly since year 2017) been no place in the Thai tax return forms, under exemptions, to list exempt income that are exempt per the DTA/Royal Decree combination. Why do you believe that is? Do you think for almost 1/2 century the Thai revenue department has made a mistake in their exemptions list? You have failed to address that. Totally failed. Further you incorrectly claim the only foreign remited income that is tax exempt is that pre-1-Jan-2024. Again - you are misleading. Or perhaps are you finally willing to admit, that income that is noted as exempt in a Royal Decree (when referencing the DTAs) is not to be considered assessable income. Further , if it is not to be considered assessable income, then it does not come into the calculation for whether a Thai tax return is needed.

No - he is not misleadng. You are.

This is more than just semantics. It is misleading people in regards to their tax obligations. That is IMHO rather serious.

Its a good video - but he does not cover in any sort of appropriate (clarifying) detail the aspects were are discussing/debating in this thread (re exempt income per royal decrees being tax exempt). EDIT: Further, if you read the comments to that video similar discussions as to what we are seeing in AseanNow threads are taking place. That video clarifies nothing.

There is no such rule. Maybe in year 3023 but that is 1000 years away.

Yes , indeed there is ...to use with PID.90: and it also has no field suitable to list exemption per por-161/162, DTAs, nor LTR visa. Check one's self to confirm what I state: Thai tax forms (English language) https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html Thai tax forms (Thai language): https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

??? What tax rule? por.161.162 came out in 2023 (not last year). Those are Thai RD ministerial directives ... and they did NOT, under any interpretation, state: So you have me very curious. What tax rule are you referring to? Once again, I am aware of no such new rule.

Trying to understand what you are pondering here , ... I think, maybe you intended to say for the purpose of tax return determination? but not for exempt foreign income? Relevant is not only Royal Decree-18 (which states) but also Royal Decree 743 which, in one place, states: Those are two cases of exempt foreign income.

What tax rule is that? There is no such tax rule to the best of my knowledge - so you have me curious, wondering what rule you may have misinterpreted.

I agree with you - but I get the impression there is a view that global income (if remitted to Thailand ,even if tax exempt) is to be included in the determination if a tax return is needed. That is not my view, where mine is such remitted foreign income (if exempt per DTA or LTA or por-161/162) is not to be included in the tax calculation, which means not included in the assessment if a tax return is needed.

You need to read Royal Decree 18.

I don't fully understand your view. So are you claiming that income exempt Thai tax calculation (per a DTA/Royal Decree) should not be included in a Thai tax return form, but it should be used to decide of a Tax form return should be submitted? or are you saying its should be listed in a Thai tax return form, even thou the remitted tax exempt income is not mentioned anywhere in the tax form as an exemption? There is NO field in any tax form to deduct such DTA exempt income. For if said income is listed in a tax return form, again, there is no where (going back to 2017, and likely no where going back to 1969), .. is there any place under exempt income to list such DTA exempt income in a Thai tax return form. Thailand has had > 1/2 century to put such exemption field in a Thai tax return form and they have not put such in.

i think we are in agreement there. Where we don't yet see eye to eye is whether for cases that DTAs note foreign income is not taxable in Thailand (and hence Royal Decree-18 notes such is exempt) whether such tax exempt foreign income should be included in the calculation whether a tax return need to be submitted. My current view is such tax exempt foreign income should not be included in the tax calculation, ... and I believe your view is such tax exempt foreign income should be included in the tax return calculation (and then later, somehow, in a non-existent field in a Thailand tax return (which has been the case of no such exemption field for over > 1/2 century of Thailand tax returns) be deducted from tax payable on said tax return.

I replied on this in another thread. What in essence it does is lower the assessble tax threshold of a person (because such is likely exempt for purposes of tax calculation), and accordingly could contribute to the decision if a tax return is required or not required. .

I pointed out in a previous thread that Royal Decree 18 exempts taxation per the revenue code per selected DTAs. I did not note, but if you read the Royal Decree, it also makes it clear it is up to the Minister of Finance to be in charge and execute that Royal Decree. That Royal Decree came out in 1962. I confess I have not looked at Thailand tax forms (English & Thai language) going back to 1962, but I have looked back to 2017 (both languages). The best that I could observe, neither have a location on those tax forms to list income under DTAs as tax exempt. Yet the Royal Decree clearly states some foreign income can be tax exempt if covered under a DTA. It has ALWAYS been the case that foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year in which it is earned is taxable. If a tax return was required (despite such income being exempt (per Royal Decree/DTA)) then one would expect a location in the Thai tax form with a blank field for such income to be listed as an exemption. But there is NONE going back to 2017, and probably going back to 1962. Argueably, Thailand has over 1/2 century to put in the Thailand tax forms an exemption field for DTAs that are tax exempt. Thailand has not. Why? Why not? My interpretation (and I believe the interpretation of the Minister of Finance) is that any income that a DTA/Royal-Decree-18 notes is exempt Thai taxation (per Thai revenue code) is in fact exempt for taxation calculation. And hence since it can not be taxed (per Royal Decree-18/DTAs) it does not belong in a tax form, which means it does not form part of evaluating the level of assesable income. So if one has inadequate other income, it could equate to there being no requirement to file a Thai tax return. Once again - this is not new. Royal Decree (and Double Tax agreements) have been in place for decades. And for decades, there is no place in the Thai tax forms under exemptions to place income from DTAs.

With regards to point #2, note that Royal Decree 18, that notes Thailand compliance with Double Tax Agreements, states (translation): So Royal Decree 18 DOES exempt taxes per the DTAs (where applicable per individual DTAs). Does that help clarify this a bit in your view?

Where the discussions and disagreements tend to be is which income is assessable and which income is exempt (for the purpose of the tax calculation) [and hence not to be on a tax return form]. For a while, there were some who were saying exempt remitted income from before 1-January-2024 was assessable and had to included on a tax return (and then deducted) and that a tax return from those where that was their only funds brought into Thailand had to still file a tax return. I believe they are close now to have been proven wrong. Such exempt remitted income/savings (pre-Jan-2024) has been stated not to be on a tax return submission by some of the youtube tax advisor(?) / educators(?)) where further one or two noted that no Thai income tax return is required if the only source of year 2024 remitted funds to Thailand is income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024. And ... in the most part, those who claimed such (por-161/162 income/savings had to be on a tax return with the same income/savings then deducted on the same tax form (where there was no place on a tax return to deduct such)) are now in the most part silent in regard to funds covered by por-161/162 (or they have switched their view). Still - the discussions as to what is assessable income (re: income not taxable by Thailand due to some (not all)) DTAs continues (despite there being NO PLACE on either English nor Thai language Thai tax forms for DTA exempt income to be listed as exemptions). I suspect we will see opinions evolve on the demarcation for assessable income (in regards to income exempt for the purpose of tax calculation).

Yes - I find the words "state pension" or "government pension" as used by some on Aseannow a bit ambiguous, which is why I avoided using such words in my post. The DTAs, to the best of my knowledge, are more precise in defining the pensions (noting such for services rendered to government where applicable) - and IMHO don't have those ambiguities.

I wish it was three years - but sadly only 1 year.