oldcpu

Indeed. I was here 25 years ago (as a digital nomad then) and people were saying that re:taxation. But it was also at that time wrong in terms of tax law - rather it represented what was practically in place.

This is my concern - for those who file a 2024 Thai tax return ... if they put tax exempt income (from income excluded per the DTA) or put exempt remitted income (from pre-1-Jan-2024 savings) into their tax return , they could then be incorrectly taxed on that. Why ? Because there is no place on the tax forms to list such as then tax exempt. Then one is into appeals and it gets messy. So caution is needed here - and I hope everyone pays close attention to this.

I checked his post - and he does not mention if his pension was a civil servant or military pension and whether that was or was not taxable in Thailand according to the Thai - UK DTA. I understand UK civil servant/military pensions are only taxable in the UK, but other UK pensions ? Is that also the case? Perhaps non-civil servant UK pensions are taxable in Thailand? I don't know that DTA. This is important - so if you are going to compare to Dah fahrang you need to specify and explain that and confirm you have same type of pensions (as I do believe Dah fahrang did NOT specify that) else the comparison is meaningless.

Did this include the time to obtain a Thai TIN ? or did you already have a Thai TIN?

A DTA is not going to use 'custom Thai' expressions to define income. Rather it follows the international practice for wording. So if a DTA says only taxable in UK (I assume this is a civil servant / military pension) then it is NOT taxable in Thailand. This does not mean tax exempt. It means NOT taxable (if I understand your post correctly , assuming you are not using different word from the DTA). In that case, clearly to me (ie IMHO) that income should be treated as non assessable. If non-assessable, then it need not be included in a Thai tax calculation and should not go on a tax form. I can only conclude that the RD official made a mistake. If you are skeptical, I would (if I were you) return to the RD if not too far away (with a Thai version of the DTA in hand if possible, and if not the English language version) and ask again. Perhaps even bring a copy of Royal Decree 18 with you (although I do not believe that should be necessary). Every one makes mistakes now and then - and the same is true for RD officials. .

I suspect a single (multi-page) bank statement, possibly with hand marked up explanations, and then scanned electronically (for an electronic submission and for one's records) would be better than "all the receipts". Having typed that, I am not saying doing that. Like everyone else (even if in my case I am not so much affected) I am curious as to how this will evolve. Every now and then (when absent minded) i will use a foreign credit card (instead of my Thai credit card) for a Thai purchase ... and of course, then some might claim - assessable income !! put this on your tax return. I probably should follow my wife' advice and lock up my foreign credit cards when in Thailand. The problem there is I used to do that, and in one past visit outside of Thailand, I forgot to bring my foreign credit cards with me. .... Being absent minded at times has its problems. lol !!

We both have the same view there in regards to what I quoted. I am on an LTR visa and the Royal Decree 743 makes it clear one can lose their tax exemption if one does not follow the Thai Minister of Finances rules. So even thou I have a certain strong opinion about no Thai tax return needed if income only from remitted foreign income (as an LTR visa holder) , and an opinion about no Thai tax return needed for foreign income remitted (if exempt under a DTA) , and an opinion about no Thai tax needed for foreign income remitted (if exempt per por.161.162) , I still decided in advance to remit no foreign funds into Thailand in 2024 calendar/tax year. This (not needing to file a Thai tax return) was confirmed with a Phuket RD official if I remitted no foreign income and if had had no Thai income)- and further he would not give me a Thai tax ID. I know sometime in next few years I will have to start remitting foreign money to Thailand - and I probably could do such today tax free with no Thai income tax return submission required. But 'probably' is not good enough for me ... so I will wait a few years and do my very best to learn off of the experience of others. For while I clearly have a strong opinion on this (no tax return needed for the noted remitted income), I see no need to take a chance, as my opinions are not always 100% correct. Every expat (IMHO) should be aware of their own financial situation in regards the the DTA with their income source country, and the status of their funds relative to por.161-162, and make their own decision given their financial situation.

I tried credit card once (paying trivial amount owed to Revenue Canada by a credit card). Maybe I did it wrong. It failed at first and on a later attempt I had an extra (big) payment company fee relative to a small amount of tax due. Then (stupid me) in a subsequent year, I did a bank transfer from a Canadian bank to Revenue Canada. That worked for Revenue Canada, but somehow that woke up the Canadian bank to my being a non-resident to Canada. The Canadian Bank immediately froze my RRSP and my Canadian margin trading account. It took me almost a year to sort that, so I could trade again (moving all funds to a different financial institution).

I used VM translation service but it was not recently (it was done in the year 2020 time frame). https://www.facebook.com/SutthiratYimyong/?locale=th_TH I wanted to have my Canadian marriage to my Thai wife registered in Thailand for Visa purposes. I live in Phuket, and VM Services is in Bangkok. This was around the start of COVID times - so travel was difficult. So after (my Thai wife) contacting them on they phone, they advised us what to send, and we couried all the appropriate documents to them, and they handled the rest. Part of this was to give them limited power of attorney to represent my wife and I in this activity. They translated the documents (they are certified translators for English language to Thai language). They took copies of my marriage documents and passport to Canadian Embassy and had such certified. And then took such to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and had such certified by them. And then couriered all back to me. I did not at first think such was possible (and was 'moaning' a bit on AseanNow), but Ubon Joe, bless his soul, set me straight and advised me to surf the internet and find such a service as he noted there were various companies that provide such. Possibly the only area where I 'deviated' a bit was in the 'power of attorney' document I signed, where I hand edited the wording a bit to restrict the power of attorney to only handling documents associated with registering my Canadian marriage in Thailand.

I think every one has been asking that question for the past 3,000 ? years.

To Germany? No. German government sent me a letter (despite my having German + Europe pension income) and advised me I did not have to file a German tax return since I was a Thai tax resident. To Canada? Yes. Canada taxes ALL Canadian sourced income for both residents & non-residents. None of the Canadian DTAs (to best of my knowledge) avoid that Canadian policy. To Thailand? No. Phuket RD was quite clear some months back, that given I was remitting no money to Thailand in the 2024 calendar year and since I had no Thai income, that I did NOT qualify for a Thai TIN ,and that I should NOT file a Thai tax return.

There is a lot of trust there (by Thai RD) in what you posted. For me? I would ensure I stayed 100% legal and kept records of everything to back up my legal tax management approach. Just because someone 'trusts one' does not mean that someone might not come back sometime and do an audit. Having typed that - Thanks for sharing. Most interesting. .

You are allowed to stay in Thailand. THAT is what you get in return. There is more than just 'immigration' aspects to stay in ANY country in this world, and that includes Thailand. One needs to follow the local tax laws. Including tax laws. Try staying in any G7 country as a non-citizen , who is a tax resident to those countries. Thailand is no different there - except Thailand does not (yet) tax global income if not remitted to Thailand. If the polluted air bothers you (and it would bother me, which is why I live in the south of Thailand) then you should move.

Cyclist .. I examined PID.90 and PID.91 (year 2023 English language version and also the Thai language 2024 version). They do not support what you posted. Details: If one looks at PID.91 (2023) tax computation: A.(1) is Salaries, wages pensions (plus exempted income from B.5). A.(2) is Less exempted income (from B.6) B.5 ? That is Severance Pay under Labour Law. B.6? That is the total of B.1 to B.5 to be filled in A.2 (ie Private fund contribution + Government Pension fund contribution + Private teacher aid fund contribution + Income exemption (limited to ONLY "disabled taxpayer under age-65" and "taxpayer aged 65 years or older (including diabled taxpayer), + Severance pay under labour law. If one then looks at Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment No where is there ANY location for DTA exempt income, nor for por-161/162 exempt income, nor for LTR exempt income. = = = So instead ... if one looks at PID.90 (2023): No.1 (1) Section 40 (1) : Salary, wage, pension etc (included exempted income from 2.(4)) No.1 (2) does not address anything to do with Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions. It only includes (1)Provident fund contributions, (2) Government Pension Fund contributions, (3) Private teacher aid fund contributions, and (4) Serverance Pay under Labour law. The "No.2" is where Assessable income under section 40(3) is ADDED and NOT subtracted. There is no No.2(4) that is 'obvious' unless one refers to "Allowances and Exemptions after Deduction of Expensives Attachment" where "4" is "Parential care". Further if one examines "Allowances and Exemptions after Deduction of Expensives Attachment" there is NO place for Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions, nor LTR exempt income. The sum of this goes to 11(2). Conclusion: I caution any one reading this thread, who has exempt income under Por-161/162 or a DTA , or an LTR visa, to be very skeptical as to what Cyclist posted. Study the forms yourself and draw your own conclusion. My conclusion? There is NO place for Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions, nor LTR exempt income. If one tries to force those exemptions in any exemption field in PID-90 or PID-91 , they could be denied as exemptions (as they are in the wrong field being 'forced' into such by you) and hence you risk paying Thai tax on income that is supposed to be 100% exempt taxation.

correcting error ...

As long as one is legally managing one's tax exposure, why would one care?

Yes, but will the exemptions be rejected, because you placed them in a tax return field which is intended for something else, and you end up paying tax on funds that were supposed to be tax exempt? Sure - it can be done (assuming the RD assigns one a TIN - some of us failed in that attempt) - but if done, will one then be in appeal territory? I think we are beginning to see now more and more reports from those who state they are being told by local RD that certain types of remitted foreign income are exempt, and no tax filing necessary (unless one has local income or one has foreign income that is not exempt).

Interesting. Thanks for posting that tidbit.

I qualified for the LTR-WP via the $40k US equiv income per year + $250k US equiv invest in Thailand. To meet the $250k US equiv I needed about another 1.5-million THB of investment, so I purchased a 2-million THB , 7-year Thai government bond. My plan for year 2028 on the LTR-WP, when I have to renew, is to switch to the $80k US equiv income from the $40k US equiv income (and sell or let expire my 7 year Thai government bonds), and I am setting up (restructuring a bit) my finances to 'just' meet that income level (and not exceed by very much). If I exceed the $80k US equiv income by even a bit too much I get hammered by Canadian taxes. However given changing exchange rates (between Cdn$ and US$), there is always a chance I miscalculate when restructuring and fall a bit short of the $80k US$ annual income. So as I backup I also plan to have in reserve easily accessable funds to buy another 2-million THB in Thai government bonds in case I miscalculate on the income amount prepared. So in my case, I plan to do some financial restructuring in preparation for year 2028 for my LTR-WP renewal. I also hope to switch to using my foreign (Cigna) European health insurance instead of keeping $100k US$ equivalent in a bank for self-health insurance (where for BoI at present I am using the self-health insurance route). I wish one of those who obtained a letter from their health insurance company, claiming they met the appropriate health insurance requirement (for the LTR visa) that they would post the EXACT WORDING of said letter (with any private aspects blocked/whited out). Thus far no one has done such - but rather only provided some rather vague descriptions of purported said health insurance letter's contents. .

Great. Out of curiousity, what does the DTA (with Thailand) of the country of your income source say about your income taxability in regards to Thailand? And were you remitting current (2024) year income or income from before 2024? Was your income from a pension? or other source? If a pension, was it a civil servant pension or a non-civil servant pension from the government or a company? Everyone's case is different, and its difficult to extrapolate conclusions without better understanding the details. Thanks for sharing.

Damn auto spell check/correction (on my computer software). I meant to type "taxable" and not "table" in the above. The 'edit' time timed out before I noticed my typo

That is an interpretation , but it is not one I speculate is the planned case. Why? Because I believe the word "no need to present [a copy of one's foreign] tax return in Thailand" would have the word 'foreign' used. ie. the word 'foreign' would be inserted. The word 'foreign' was not inserted. This is Thailand. When the Thailand RD talks of a tax return, unless otherwise very specifically and definitely specified (by typing the word "foreign") one assumes they are talking of a Thailand tax return. Not talking of a 'foreign' tax return. Again - There was no mention of 'foreign' tax return, .... only in prior sentence a note of DTAs. So we both see different interpretations. I am curious to learn how this will all plan out. As each day goes by I am glad I took precautions in previous years to be able to ride out things financially when uncertainties such as these tax interpretations and ambiguities are in place.

I think one can put together an exemption package much larger than 60k THB. Will it reach 500k ? I don't know - i suspect it depends on one's age, one's marital status ... etc. Others have posted about this on this forum.

If you have the financial luxury to wait it out (before remitting to Thailand) while the need to file or not file a Thai tax return (for pre-1-Jan-2024 remitted income to Thailand), that might be a good idea. Currently there is no place on the English language 2023 Thai tax form to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt, nor any place on the Thai language 2024/2025 tax forms to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt. Yet despite that, many claim one must still list those incomes, and presumably put the exemption entry in the wrong place in the tax forms (as there is no correct place to locates such - where RD Thailand could then reject the exemption and tax one the full amount). Its a bit of a catch-22 .... ... and given its a bit of a catch-22, it is good if you have the luxury to wait it out. That is also my strategy.

I think where many of us struggle, is when we look at the English language Thai tax form for tax-year 2023 (the English language year 2024 Thai tax form is not yet out) and when we look at the Thai language year 2024 tax form (and even the 2025 Thai tax form which is out) there is no place to list exemptions such as those noted in a DTA (between Thailand and one's income sourced country), no place to list an exemption for remitted income that is exempt per Por-161/162, and no place to list an exemption for income per the LTR visa for LTR-WP, LTR-WFTP, and LTR-WGC visa holders. If one goes ahead, uses the 2023 tax form (for year 2024) and puts the exemption in a field it is not intended, the risk is Thailand RD could reject the exemption and tax one the full amount on income that is legally exempt. Then one is into appeal territory and this starts to get very very painful. This is nothing new. DTAs have have been around for a long time and foreign remitted income was always table in Thailand if remitted to Thailand in the year it was earned. Yet there has deliberately been no place for DTA tax exemptions in the Thai tax forms for years. This has lead a number of us to speculate that if a DTA makes it clear Thailand can not tax a foreign income, then that foreign income should not be entered into a Thai tax form. Of course this gets more complicated when the DTA states Thailand may tax the foreign income, and trying to find the location in the tax form to deal with this (so not to be double taxed) is not very obvious (to me). Fortunately, I am not in that situation. This has always been a concern, I believe, of many in this thread and in other AseanNow threads. .