oldcpu

You are allowed to stay in Thailand. THAT is what you get in return. There is more than just 'immigration' aspects to stay in ANY country in this world, and that includes Thailand. One needs to follow the local tax laws. Including tax laws. Try staying in any G7 country as a non-citizen , who is a tax resident to those countries. Thailand is no different there - except Thailand does not (yet) tax global income if not remitted to Thailand. If the polluted air bothers you (and it would bother me, which is why I live in the south of Thailand) then you should move.

Cyclist .. I examined PID.90 and PID.91 (year 2023 English language version and also the Thai language 2024 version). They do not support what you posted. Details: If one looks at PID.91 (2023) tax computation: A.(1) is Salaries, wages pensions (plus exempted income from B.5). A.(2) is Less exempted income (from B.6) B.5 ? That is Severance Pay under Labour Law. B.6? That is the total of B.1 to B.5 to be filled in A.2 (ie Private fund contribution + Government Pension fund contribution + Private teacher aid fund contribution + Income exemption (limited to ONLY "disabled taxpayer under age-65" and "taxpayer aged 65 years or older (including diabled taxpayer), + Severance pay under labour law. If one then looks at Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment No where is there ANY location for DTA exempt income, nor for por-161/162 exempt income, nor for LTR exempt income. = = = So instead ... if one looks at PID.90 (2023): No.1 (1) Section 40 (1) : Salary, wage, pension etc (included exempted income from 2.(4)) No.1 (2) does not address anything to do with Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions. It only includes (1)Provident fund contributions, (2) Government Pension Fund contributions, (3) Private teacher aid fund contributions, and (4) Serverance Pay under Labour law. The "No.2" is where Assessable income under section 40(3) is ADDED and NOT subtracted. There is no No.2(4) that is 'obvious' unless one refers to "Allowances and Exemptions after Deduction of Expensives Attachment" where "4" is "Parential care". Further if one examines "Allowances and Exemptions after Deduction of Expensives Attachment" there is NO place for Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions, nor LTR exempt income. The sum of this goes to 11(2). Conclusion: I caution any one reading this thread, who has exempt income under Por-161/162 or a DTA , or an LTR visa, to be very skeptical as to what Cyclist posted. Study the forms yourself and draw your own conclusion. My conclusion? There is NO place for Por-161/162 nor DTA exemptions, nor LTR exempt income. If one tries to force those exemptions in any exemption field in PID-90 or PID-91 , they could be denied as exemptions (as they are in the wrong field being 'forced' into such by you) and hence you risk paying Thai tax on income that is supposed to be 100% exempt taxation.

correcting error ...

As long as one is legally managing one's tax exposure, why would one care?

Yes, but will the exemptions be rejected, because you placed them in a tax return field which is intended for something else, and you end up paying tax on funds that were supposed to be tax exempt? Sure - it can be done (assuming the RD assigns one a TIN - some of us failed in that attempt) - but if done, will one then be in appeal territory? I think we are beginning to see now more and more reports from those who state they are being told by local RD that certain types of remitted foreign income are exempt, and no tax filing necessary (unless one has local income or one has foreign income that is not exempt).

Interesting. Thanks for posting that tidbit.

I qualified for the LTR-WP via the $40k US equiv income per year + $250k US equiv invest in Thailand. To meet the $250k US equiv I needed about another 1.5-million THB of investment, so I purchased a 2-million THB , 7-year Thai government bond. My plan for year 2028 on the LTR-WP, when I have to renew, is to switch to the $80k US equiv income from the $40k US equiv income (and sell or let expire my 7 year Thai government bonds), and I am setting up (restructuring a bit) my finances to 'just' meet that income level (and not exceed by very much). If I exceed the $80k US equiv income by even a bit too much I get hammered by Canadian taxes. However given changing exchange rates (between Cdn$ and US$), there is always a chance I miscalculate when restructuring and fall a bit short of the $80k US$ annual income. So as I backup I also plan to have in reserve easily accessable funds to buy another 2-million THB in Thai government bonds in case I miscalculate on the income amount prepared. So in my case, I plan to do some financial restructuring in preparation for year 2028 for my LTR-WP renewal. I also hope to switch to using my foreign (Cigna) European health insurance instead of keeping $100k US$ equivalent in a bank for self-health insurance (where for BoI at present I am using the self-health insurance route). I wish one of those who obtained a letter from their health insurance company, claiming they met the appropriate health insurance requirement (for the LTR visa) that they would post the EXACT WORDING of said letter (with any private aspects blocked/whited out). Thus far no one has done such - but rather only provided some rather vague descriptions of purported said health insurance letter's contents. .

Great. Out of curiousity, what does the DTA (with Thailand) of the country of your income source say about your income taxability in regards to Thailand? And were you remitting current (2024) year income or income from before 2024? Was your income from a pension? or other source? If a pension, was it a civil servant pension or a non-civil servant pension from the government or a company? Everyone's case is different, and its difficult to extrapolate conclusions without better understanding the details. Thanks for sharing.

Damn auto spell check/correction (on my computer software). I meant to type "taxable" and not "table" in the above. The 'edit' time timed out before I noticed my typo

That is an interpretation , but it is not one I speculate is the planned case. Why? Because I believe the word "no need to present [a copy of one's foreign] tax return in Thailand" would have the word 'foreign' used. ie. the word 'foreign' would be inserted. The word 'foreign' was not inserted. This is Thailand. When the Thailand RD talks of a tax return, unless otherwise very specifically and definitely specified (by typing the word "foreign") one assumes they are talking of a Thailand tax return. Not talking of a 'foreign' tax return. Again - There was no mention of 'foreign' tax return, .... only in prior sentence a note of DTAs. So we both see different interpretations. I am curious to learn how this will all plan out. As each day goes by I am glad I took precautions in previous years to be able to ride out things financially when uncertainties such as these tax interpretations and ambiguities are in place.

I think one can put together an exemption package much larger than 60k THB. Will it reach 500k ? I don't know - i suspect it depends on one's age, one's marital status ... etc. Others have posted about this on this forum.

If you have the financial luxury to wait it out (before remitting to Thailand) while the need to file or not file a Thai tax return (for pre-1-Jan-2024 remitted income to Thailand), that might be a good idea. Currently there is no place on the English language 2023 Thai tax form to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt, nor any place on the Thai language 2024/2025 tax forms to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt. Yet despite that, many claim one must still list those incomes, and presumably put the exemption entry in the wrong place in the tax forms (as there is no correct place to locates such - where RD Thailand could then reject the exemption and tax one the full amount). Its a bit of a catch-22 .... ... and given its a bit of a catch-22, it is good if you have the luxury to wait it out. That is also my strategy.

I think where many of us struggle, is when we look at the English language Thai tax form for tax-year 2023 (the English language year 2024 Thai tax form is not yet out) and when we look at the Thai language year 2024 tax form (and even the 2025 Thai tax form which is out) there is no place to list exemptions such as those noted in a DTA (between Thailand and one's income sourced country), no place to list an exemption for remitted income that is exempt per Por-161/162, and no place to list an exemption for income per the LTR visa for LTR-WP, LTR-WFTP, and LTR-WGC visa holders. If one goes ahead, uses the 2023 tax form (for year 2024) and puts the exemption in a field it is not intended, the risk is Thailand RD could reject the exemption and tax one the full amount on income that is legally exempt. Then one is into appeal territory and this starts to get very very painful. This is nothing new. DTAs have have been around for a long time and foreign remitted income was always table in Thailand if remitted to Thailand in the year it was earned. Yet there has deliberately been no place for DTA tax exemptions in the Thai tax forms for years. This has lead a number of us to speculate that if a DTA makes it clear Thailand can not tax a foreign income, then that foreign income should not be entered into a Thai tax form. Of course this gets more complicated when the DTA states Thailand may tax the foreign income, and trying to find the location in the tax form to deal with this (so not to be double taxed) is not very obvious (to me). Fortunately, I am not in that situation. This has always been a concern, I believe, of many in this thread and in other AseanNow threads. .

I think, as you note, understanding the exact levels of the taxation thresholds, will dictate how much money you can remit to Thailand before Thailand taxation sets in. I guess this becomes a 'numbers game' at a certain point of time for you, in order to legally manage your Thailand tax exposure. .... Don't forget there is por-161/162 (ie foreign savings/income prior to 1-Jan-2024 not taxed if remitted to Thailand any time in the future). Best wishes.

Canada has always tried to make a global reach on taxing Canadian citizens. Possibly Revenue Canada looks to the south and observes USA taxing its citizens globally, and maybe is jealous? However the Canadian policy is to only tax residents (and accordingly Canada lays down strict requirements as to what interests in Canada one must divest to no longer be considered a Canadian resident). Any income sourced in Canada is taxed in Canada. That is Canada's policy. Further anyone who is a Canadian resident, is taxed on their global income AND must report their global assets to Canada. This is nothing new - its been that way since I first started submitting Canadian tax returns back in the early 1970s. Further, Canada wants to know the global income of non-residents to Canada (if those non-residents to Canada have any Canadian sourced income). Canada wants this so they can tune the tax rate/bracket for any Canadian sourced income of the non-residents to Canada (who have Canadian income). But Thailand? Despite all the hype and concern, Thailand is a breath of fresh air for anyone trying to manage their tax exposure differently from what they experienced in Canada. Thailand does not (yet) tax global income of Thailand tax residents if the money stays outside of Thailand (in contrast to Canada). Thailand also has agreed to DTAs (Royal Decree 18 generically calls the DTAs) can have tax exemptions to Thai taxation in cases. Canada is one such case (Canadian pensions shall ONLY be taxed in Canada and not in Thailand). Further Thailand has a ministerial directive (Por-161/162) that notes any income/savings earned/saved from before 1-Jan-2024, if remitted to Thailand any time in the future will not be taxed in Thailand. Thailand has even a long term visa (LTR-WP - Royal Decree 743) for Wealthy Pensioners where foreign income will not be taxed when remitted to Thailand. That is NOT to say Thailand has the best tax regime in the world for one looking to legally reduce their tax exposure. But its better than Canada. Best wishes (and I type that honestly with a good heart) in finding a country with a tax regime you like. I do honestly hope you succeed and enjoy yourself. There are great places in this world Please thou, keep in mind other factors than just the money/tax. ie hospital quality. crime rate. food quality. etc ... And if you are still young enough to not mind traveling for long durations, then 5-months in Thailand, 5-months in country-A, and 2-months in country-B could be a good approach for you. That does not appeal to me (I am getting too old and comfortable in my condo in southern Thailand) but it might be a great option for you. The world is full of great places, and taking the opportunity to see them and spend time in them is a dream of many of us. Again - all the best wishes.

Malaysia changed their tax implementation that affected foreigners living there.

I am not Samtam. ... and likely as you know re: RD web site tax forms ... You can find Thai language tax forms here: https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html 2024 Thai language (and even 2025 Thai language) tax forms are available for download. However on the English language only thus far year 2023 tax form: https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html That sort of begs the question, if attention is being paid to expats in Thailand (with an intent to tax them) why the delay in 2024 English language Thai tax forms? From here on end this is pure speculation by me ... One speculative answer could be they are redesigning the English language tax form with different entries. I suppose that possible, but nominally in the past, it looked to me that both the English language and Thai language tax forms were mostly aligned, and had the same content (but with different language wording). So if there were to be big changes in the English language tax form, I would expect the same in the 2024/2025 Thai language forms. But there were no big changes. Another speculative answer is there may be debate within the RD as to whether they will continue to provide English language tax forms, and until the internal debate is sorted, there will only be Thai language tax forms for year 2024. Of course, if Thai RD is very keen to tax foreigners, why would they delay putting out the 2024 tax forms ? or could it be rushing to tax foreigners is not as high on the Thai RD priority list as some may think? Again - pure speculation.

How did you go about the TIN application? Did you show up, say please I wish a Thai TIN , and hand them all your documents ( including pink ID buried withtheremainder of your documents) ? or Did you show up, pass them you pink ID, and say please activate this pink ID # as a tax ID and pass over remaining documents when provided? It doesn't matter which .... But I suspect in the first approach, the pink ID may have been ignored by RD official until too late, and then rather than restart all the paperwork on their side to then use Pink ID ( and lose face with RD colleagues for doing work twice) they simply issued you a new tax ID, and ignored pink ID. .. or possibly they didn't know the process to activate a pink ID as a tax ID and rather than ask for help from colleagues ( and lose face for not knowing) they issued a new tax ID. Of course that is speculation by myself.

My non-expert view on this is if your income source country DTA with Thailand says the income can only be taxed in the income source country, then there is no need to include remitted foreign income (from that source country to Thailand) in a Thai tax return - and if that is one's only income, there is no need to file a Thai tax return. However I speculate the "except in cases ... " wording could apply if one's DTA with Thailand allows Thailand to tax the pension. That could mean filing a Thai tax return is needed (only) if foreign income remitted to Thailand. As to how the details work out on the tax return ... I don't know and I have not looked at that as such does not apply for me, given I am on an LTR visa and further given that I am remitting no foreign money to Thailand at present time (I remitted a bunch previously when I was a non-resident to Thailand).

I took a quick look at the pension section in the Belgium-Thai DTA. From that DTA: ... note the words "may be taxed" ... That suggests to me both states (Thailand and Belgium) may be able to tax the pension. Why do I think that? Well contrast that to the words in the Canada-Thai DTA which state: Note the difference in wording. The Belgium-Thai DTA states "may be taxed" while the Canada-Thai DTA states "shall be taxable only". The Belgium-Thai DTA goes on to note Belgium civil service pensions are only taxed in Belgium (unless one a Thai citizen). Although I believe for Belgium (non-civil service) pension income to be taxed in Thailand one needs to remit that income to Thailand. Where your approach not to remit seems to work to manage your tax exposure. ... anyway ... its interesting to see differences in the DTAs. as for residency, in the case of me and Canada, becoming a Canadian tax resident would be a big mistake for me, as Canada would then go after all of my global income and assets. Its better for me at present time to be a Thai tax resident. I suspect everyone is different here. Note also - I am no tax expert , so readers should come to their own conclusions - and not blindly follow my opinions.

... further - you need to read a bit further as there is "except in cases where it is necessary to show ..." and at that point it gets even more confusing. But re: your question, what does the DTA of the source country of your income say?

May I ask what country? In the case of Canada - only Canada can tax Canadian sourced pension even if one is a Thailand resident. Thailand is not to tax such (per the Canadian-Thai DTA). I doubt Canada forwards anything to Thailand. In the case of Germany? its the opposite. Only Thailand can tax a German sourced pension if one is a Thailand resident. Germany is not to tax such (per the German-Thai DTA). Germany might ??? forward something to Thailand. but ... its not clear. Important here is one still has to remit the German pension income into Thailand to be taxable by Thailand. This is also true for other foreign sourced income. Currently if the income is left outside of Thailand it is not taxable in Thailand.

The small print at the bottom is interesting where it states: It has me thinking the view of some of us that remitted pension income noted in a DTA as not being taxable in Thailand , but only taxable in the pension source country, does not need to go on a Thai tax return. Further if that is one's only income then there is no need to submit a Thai tax return. ...and it goes on a bit to provide some ?? guidance where a DTA provides for both countries (source & Thailand) to tax a pension.

Thanks for the reference to Royal Decree No.18, B.E.2505 (1962). I note (an English language translation) in Section-3 states: So that makes it clear that taxes on income can be exempt dependent on the wording of a DTA. Further, the Minister of Finance is the one who needs to implement any of the details in regards to foreign tax credits ... and also if such tax exempt income need be included in a tax return. Given the Minster of Finance (via the Revenue Department) has elected to put no place in the Thailand tax return forms (neither English language nor Thai language that I can find) for such exempt income to be listed as tax exempt, then I believe that supports the viewpoint that such tax exempt income (per the specific DTAs as authorized by Royal Decree 18) need not be included in a Thailand tax return. Edit: Obviously this is my opinion. I am not a tax advisor nor a tax expert.

Its possible whether a non-Thai language statement is accepted could be up to the local RD office. Frankly I don't know, but I suspect each RD office has flexibility in its requirements and hence by having such in print it means if they are short of staff and don't have enough staff familiar with English language, they can insist on only Thai language.