oldcpu

I hear you ... but I find the wording in Thai documents can be less than clear. Take the LTR visa for example. The Royal Decree for the LTR-WP visa holders states that foreign assessable income is tax exempt. The Royal Decree clearly refers to 'assessable income' and then it states such is 'tax exempt'. Yet there is no place on the 2023 tax form for such tax exempt assessable income. So if exemptions have nothing to do with income that is not-assessable, why does the Royal Decree refer to assessable income and state it is tax exempt. I believe what we see is an inconsistency in terminology , making it difficult to be definitive when referring to such terms. < sigh > Anyway - all the best - and I hope with time this will be very clear to all and that impacts on most will be little to none (that is a hope - not a prediction).

I just looked again at that website - and on 2nd thought, I am not convinced that is the website my wife went to in order to apply for a TIN form myself. Likely I will need to wait until she returns home.

On the topic of trying to get a Thai Tax-ID, I note this page (Thai language) for filing an on-line tax return, where in the upper right corner is a 'green box' which one clicks on to "apply for membership" which I assume means "apply for a tax-ID". https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-efiling-web/register I suspect (but not sure) that might the the 'box' my wife clicked on when she attempted to obtain a tax-ID for myself. I posted on this previous and in the end after applying (uploading various info , such as passport copy, pink-ID copy) the Phuket RD branch phoned our home, and advised I did not qualify for a Thai TIN (as I was not bringing in any income into Thailand at present and because I have no Thai income). ... I am not 100% certain that is how my wife applied for the TIN, ... she is currently out of country traveling with some friend ... but i suspect that is how she made the online TIN application. At present, per the Phuket Thai RD officials advise (to myself via my wife) I don't plan to file a 2024 tax return for Thailand (I will file such to Canada), ... but I do hope to watch and monitor how this all turns out Best wishes to all on this topic. .

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91. (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find). When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed. Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions). I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree). There is no place to list such exemptions. So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') .. if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then it is not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. There is simply NO obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions. From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return. A number of forum users have been stating such, and I believe the 'old' (2023 and earlier) tax forms may indeed support such a view. Still , the 2024 form is not yet out, so I guess we will need to wait and see. I am just as curious as everyone else.

I could not see any place to enter 'age'. Still, I found it useful for assessing if any tax on income from money in Thailand Banks/Bonds - and it suggests I have no tax owed for my small Thai income from such. IMHO that is good in my case, where I did not remit any foreign money into Thailand in 2024 (and even if I did, I believe such should be tax free as some (not all) covered by DTAs, and all should be covered by PAW.161 and also covered by my being on an LTR visa). In my specific case it supports my assessment that I need not for tax-year-2024 file a Thai tax return for my small Thai income. ... Like many others I will wait and see how year 2025 turns out. Best wishes to all in your assessments as to whether it is necessary for you to obtain a tax-ID and if necessary to file a tax return.

I suspect your pink ID # has already been activated as a Thai TIN. When my and I tried that over a month ago, the pink ID # was rejected. When later (in a phone call) my wife asked a Phuket RD official why the pink-ID # was rejected, he stated because mine was not yet activated as a Thai TIN. Glad to read you had some success.

Since we are off topic here ... How much time have you spent to study Thai history - and in particular military history? I suspect you did not read up on the 1547 to 1549 Thailand-Burmese war, nor .. the 1584 to 1593 Thailand-Burmese war, nor .. the 1624 to 1636 Spanish-Siam war, nor .. the June-1688 to Nov-1688 French failed seige of Bangkok .. the 1700-to-1701 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1717 Siamese-Vietnamese War .. the 1771-to-1773 Siamese-Vietnamese War .. the 1775-to-1776 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1778-to-1779 Lao-Siamese War .. the 1785-to-1786 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1797-to-1798 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1802-to-1805 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1809-to-1812 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1824-to-1826 Anglo Burmese War (which also involved Thailand) .. the 1840 Cambodia rebellion (where there was Siamese intervention) .. the 1940-41 Franco-Thailand war (I bet you NEVER even heard of this !) .. the 1948-to-1960 Malayan Emergency (where Thailand participated to ensure independence of Malay) After you have studied some Thai history - and read up on those noted conflicts (where I listed some to make it easier for you), then lets discuss this. .

Do you know anything about condo ownership? Based on that? I suspect little. No. You have no point for such a generalization. I changed my visa. No more 90-days reports. Proves my point. Nonsense.

I guess you never studied the aftermath of the Vietnam war.

Such as the mid-1980s Thailand repelling Vietnamese attack into Thailand? perhaps something older? How about 200 years prior, in 1786 ? : https://www.jamiesphuketblog.com/2011/06/phuket-heroines-monument.html (repelling a Burmese invasion)

That is not so clear to me , .. according to what I understand based on what the Phuket RD official my wife talked to. ... Yes the official noted my pink-ID number could be my TIN number (for on-line tax submissions) if activated, but because I was remitting no money to Thailand, he would not activate the pink-ID # as a TIN number for on-line tax submissions. According to RD website: https://www.rd.go.th/14688.html I am puzzled by the term 'natural person' .. Does that refer to being borne in Thailand. But if referring to a 'real person' as opposed to a business, then yes a pink-ID holder may not have to request a TIN. Frankly, I find this all very obscure and fuzzy. When the time comes that I restart remitting money to Thailand, I may (or may not) try again applying for a Thai TIN. I am also on an LTR visa which IMHO makes it even less clear (less likely ???? I don't know) that I will require a Thai TIN (as my Thai sourced income is too small).

I read the issue with this approach is if your son uses the money you gift him, to pay for your food and your accommodations, and your automobile (and any aspects other of your Thailand lifestyle) then that gift of remitted money is not a tax exemption, it is then assessable, and Thailand tax may be due on that dependent on when the income came (timewise), and dependent on any DTA with the source country. However I am NO tax expert. That is just what I read. I could be wrong.

Interesting - yet my experience is the vast majority of airlines don't check for an onward ticket. Yes some do check - but most don't (based on my experience and on my talking to other expats and to friends who have visited Thailand). I guess some airlines just 'gamble' or they don't implement a 'safe' policy with their airline staff.

What I plan to do is keep a record (in a spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-1) of my foreign savings as of end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. I also plan to keep a separate record (in a separate spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-2) of any foreign income after 31-Dec-2023. I will deduct any withdrawals NOT brought into Thailand from spreadsheet-2. Only if spreadsheet-2 is about to go 'negative' will I deduct the remaining withdrawal money (not brought into Thailand) from spreadhseet-1. And any money I bring into Thailand I will always deduct from Spreadsheet-1. The idea here to undo the 'commingled' aspects best possible via an accounting method - to prove all money brought into Thailand was before 1-Jan-2024. Ideal? No. But that is my plan (although it may be totally unnecessary for me given I am on an LTR visa).

I am thinking the article is mostly reporting on a quote of an RD official who was thinking of Thai citizen taxpapers. The article makes no mention of the difference between Assessable and Not Assessable income. Further the article refers to P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms ... and it would not surprise me if the Thai official made no specific mention of those forms, but possibly such was inserted by writer or editor of Siam Rath Online. There is no mention of requirement for a TIN (where for Thai citizens their ID card # is automatically their TIN). Frankly, in regards to expatriates in Thailand, I don't think this adds anything more than what has already mostly been posted on this forum. I still see aspects as to what is assessable, what is not assessable, and whether assessable tax exempt remitted foreign income requires a Thai tax return (where many on this forum believe (and could be correct) that no tax return required if assessable remitted income is tax exempt). My hope is that eventually we will obtain clarity on these aspects.

The article mentions the electronic forms P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 and states they can be submitted online. However I believe that is only possible 'online' if one already has a Thailand Tax ID Number (TIN). (And if someone knows better, please correct me on that). I suspect if one does not yet have a Thai TIN and one wishes to submit, then the one could fill in the forms (minus the Thai TIN), print them out, and take them to one's local Thai RD. .... ( and then 'maybe' sit for an hour or more while they try to figure out what to do with a tax submission from someone who has no Thai TIN). However I type the above noting tax year 2024 P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms are not as of yet (as of me typing this) on the Thai Revenue Department web site, so I make this post from how I understand the year-2023 tax forms to work (which require a Thai TIN, I believe). Again - I am not 100% certain on this - but that is my understanding (that a Thai TIN is needed).

I have often puzzled over this explanation. I am not saying it wrong - I simply puzzle a bit about it. While I know of (and have on rare occasion encountered myself) case where (when at the airport on my way to Thailand, with me planning on visa exempt) I have been asked for an onward bound ticket (and I had such a ticket) .. I struggle a bit to see how producing an onward bound ticket protects the airline. I guess its a 'policy' protection for the airline , but not an actual protection (as the onward ticket , even if a real ticket, may not be usable in practice)? For example, Thai airways in Frankfurt, on occasion (not always) for Frankfurt to Phuket (or Frankfurt to Bangkok) flights are known to have asked for onward tickets out of Thailand. Typically if one has such a ticket (ie a REAL ticket) it is for a flight a few weeks or so after one's planned arrival in Thailand it may or may not be usable if there is a problem at Thai immigration. I don't recall Thai immigration ever ask me for an onward bound ticket, ... but If Thai immigration were to deny me entry (say hypothetical because I had entered Thailand too many times in the past in a recent time frame when trying visa exempt), how is a real ticket in 3 weeks time going to help the airline? At most it 'might' help me get through immigration to enter Thailand (hypothetically). Hypothetical , if entry is denied now by immigration - then a ticket 3 weeks later won't help one leave Thailand now. The flight departure date must be changed. And often many of us book cheap tickets where a change to the ticket's flight date can not be changed. I assume being required to get an onward bound ticket, is to just give the airline confidence that one has a better chance of entering Thailand (if one has done so multiple times in the past). I can't see it getting the airline off the hook for having to fly one out of Thailand (other than a possibly get out of a fine to the airline by immigration). I suspect also, anyone in that situation (denied entry) even if the Airline is on the hook, one will have the Airline chase after them for the unplanned ASAP exit flight costs for flying out of the country. I sometimes think this is just one of those "This is Thailand" sort of things. i.e. something one should know about and be prepared for, but the logic behind such does leave some unanswered questions - where indeed there may be answers - but just not obvious to all of us. .

Not yet as far as I can tell. https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html Year 2023 appears to be the latest at present time.

Influenced. That was not called for. I won't be dragged into the insult vs insult route. A route that you have now indicated that you want to go. That's a sign of weak view point when one needs to resort to such. You might be surprised as to what I know - where I've lived - where I have travelled - but I think you have insults in your mind to cast about - so I will leave this aspect of this thread now.

Thailand being Thailand - has 'work arounds' that I am confident you know about. I for one, would not go that 'workaround' route, but many do. I purchased a Foreign Freehold condo. Not every expat on a visa in Thailand has to report every 90-days. My last 90-day report was over a year ago - and I am legal and I have mostly stayed in Thailand (exceeding 90-days a few times with 90-day report legally not required for myself). Some of us have different Visas here in Thailand. So that generalization I quoted is inaccurate. i disagree. Try to open a bank account (and not use / not pay an agent) when on on a 30-day visa exemption stamp. Go visit a dozen different banks. Let me know how that works out for you. Try to stay in Thailand on back to back 30-day or 60-day visa exemption stamps for 20 years... let me know how that works out for you when you try to go-in-out of the country more than a few times. No rights? That is a massive and wrong exaggeration. Do Thai citizens have more rights than foreign citizens in Thailand? Of course! Thailand looks after Thai citizen first. I would expect nothing less. I've lived for years in Canada, USA, and Germany. They also treat their own citizens first.

IMHO thats good advice all the time - regardless as to timing. Typically, the vast majority of people spend a substantial amount of money on a home, so clearly a long and hard think is appropriate. But the question I see ... is doing such a hard and long think today (when such is a good idea) different from doing such a long and hard think 10 years ago? ... and if it is different today, ... then why is it different today?

Why ? Because ONLY of concerns over future taxation implementations? Or because of other factors (such as market value, interest rates .. etc) ?

I think the point here (to which you diverge) is many disagree with your assertion that Thailand has been 'colonized', where you used such as a support to an assessment on taxation approaches. In regards to the point, I believe you will find MANY Thai are proud that their country was never 'colonized' by the Europeans.

As noted in my post, revealing one's knowledge of the demographics of the people working the Thailand, Holland, and Germany sex trade is not a topic I would nominally touch on a forum such as this, unless I could plausibly point to some study. In general news sources tend to be unreliable/axe-grinding editorials ... so one either needs 1st hand experience or can point to a proper peer reviewed study. This is a moderately free forum here for putting out one's opinion. BUT on this topic, I am not going to get into debating nor discussing this with you, and I already (by inference) provided my reasons. (Edit : and to clarify : a very specific few words phrase in William Shakespeare's Henry IV, Act V, Scene 4 refers). You are welcome to provide from where comes your knowledge, and I cast no judgement there - but given the open nature of this, its not a topic I will touch on either side of the moral equation.

Lol ! Revealing one's knowledge of the demographics of the people working the Thailand, Holland, and Germany sex trade is not a topic I would nominally touch on a forum such as this, unless I could plausibly point to some study. In general news sources tend to be unreliable/axe-grinding editorials ... so one either needs 1st hand experience or can point to a proper peer reviewed study. I'll let others display their knowledge of the demographics (so one can infer from where comes their knowledge). 😄