oldcpu

Another note - in the case of Canada (and Canadian provinces) , if only staying 4 months of the year in Canada, one can NOT obtain free medical coverage from the Canadian Provinces. One must spend 6-months + 1 day in a Canadian province to qualify for the (less than ideal) Canadian provided health care.

Thinking about this further - if this is government health insurance, than I can't help but think you are considered a tax resident in your home country and thus you are currently paying for 12-months of the year ALREADY in your home country (via your home country taxes). Even government health insurance is NOT free - its just that the payment of such is a bit obscured). In fact, if its government provided health insurance, I am surprised you even qualify for such given you only spend 4 months of the year in the country. I like Germany's practice where if one has private health insurance up to a certain standard, one can voluntarily leave the German public health care system (and hence pay less tax in Germany!). However one can never then go back to the German public health care. This is an important consideration (in Germany) for as one gets older, most private health insurance rates go higher and higher and higher and HIGHER . In contrast the public health care does not (go higher) so many in Germany stay on the government public health care. Canada, on other hand, unlike Germany, does not (to the best of my understanding) provide an income tax payable "deduction" for those who have good private health insurance. So there is less financial advantage in Canada to have excellent private health insurance (but there is a BIG timely service advantage to have private health insurance). I feel fortunate that I have subsidized private health insurance (part of my pension package) and that my annual health insurance costs do NOT increase after age-70, but even if I reach my 80s and 90s, I will only pay the rate of a 70-year old (again - part of my pension package).

I hope your home country free medical coverage is good for those 4 months. Possibly this is a topic for a different thread, but my experience in Canada, Germany, and Thailand (and talking with expat friends from the UK), is that if one has the money, private health insurance tends to be superior to public medical coverage. Best wishes in your approach.

Yes, it could be because you asked for less than 12 months. Why would would you only need 8 months health insurance? Are you invulnerable for 4 months of the year when outside of Thailand? or are you relying on some (less than adequate? ) government health insurance plan for 4 months when outside of Thailand? There are limits to government supplied health insurance. .. The last time I was under government health insurance was in 1995, and I have had excellent private health insurance since. IMHO far superior to the public health insurance provided by governments. For example, check out Cigna Global Health insurance.

The LTR means you are exempt from paying tax on foreign sourced income brought into Thailand. The LTR does NOT exempt one from paying tax on assessable Thai income. Even if on an LTR visa, if one makes sufficient assessable income from a Thailand source (ie assessable income from inside Thailand) then one has to pay Thai tax on that income. .

That is inaccurate. It also depends on where you have your home address registered with the health insurance and also depends on the details of your health insurance plan. My home address is registered in Thailand. My comprehensive health insurance (from Europe) is global, and as an expat it fully covers me even though typically I am only in Thailand for 9 to 10 months every year (well below 12 months). In fact it globally covers me everywhere in the world , with the exception it is only 'travel insurance' for USA and Canada , where it only provides something like 6 weeks coverage for those two countries.

My Thai wife (and her brother and his spouse) pay annual Thai income tax - each paying tax exceeding the amount noted. That leaves 3,399,997 people to account for. 😅

Regardless - the numbers of wealthier expats in Phuket are increasing overall in terms of total numbers. This is obvious to anyone who has lived in Phuket for some years . As for Europeans and Aussies leaving "in droves" . No - some ARE leaving, but definitely NOT in droves, and those who are leaving (Phuket) are leaving because its now too expensive for them, so they are headed to less expensive places in Thailand (or outside Thailand), while those with money are filling the empty spots and even more arriving than those leaving. .

What was nice for the LTR visa pickup, was when it came to doing the 'immigration' part of the LTR visa, a BoI staff member walked me right to the front of the line, bypassing many in the crowded queue section of the immigration area. So the immigration long queues are not an issue for those obtaining and with the LTR visa.

The future is hard to predict. While in a Phuket forum area on AseanNow these is a thread about expats leaving Phuket, in truth, more of the opposite is happening. More and more foreigners are coming to live in Phuket, despite it being one of the most expensive places in Thailand. Perhaps this is due to the civil war in Myanmar and due to the war in Europe, where we are seeing many from Myanmar (working - not retiring) and many from Russia (retiring at a rather young age - likely from a wealthier class in Russia). ... Plus the influx of wealthy people from China retiring in Phuket (or making Phuket a second home as a backup plan place to stay in case of a second pandemic) continues to see increasing numbers in Phuket, ... which is, ... by the way ... driving an active real estate market. So we are at present continuing to see increasing numbers of wealthy foreigners show up in Phuket to live, and perhaps those who once lived in Phuket whose finances were borderline, are either leaving Thailand or are heading up north to Chiang Mai & Chiang Rai where it is much less expensive than Phuket.

i don't understand the point about " 1 singular qualifying income stream ". My 'pensioner' income comes from 3 separate sources to make the qualifying amount. BUT what BoI were more interested was my last 2 Canadian tax returns which had the 'lump sump' of my non-Thai income as a singular (sum) amount. I also provided the proof as the 3 separate pensioner income sources (German Pension, European organisation pension, and CanadianOld Age Security) and that was accepted. The only strange part (from my view) was BoI wanted to know why I was not including a Canadian pension as part of my income, given I was including Canadian Old Age Security as part of my income. I then replied with a PDF letter from myself explaining that I intended to wait to age-70 before starting my Canadian Pension (as I obtained more money if I waited to age-70, ... and I was only age-69 at that time). I also pointed out that with my German Pension + European Pension + Canadian Old Age security, I already exceeded the required LTR visa income threshold. ... Thinking back, I suspect it was a quality check - as they were puzzled why a Canadian would claim Old Age Security as an income source, but not claim a Canadian Pension as an income source. That was easy for me to sort with no agent required to sort. But if an agent can make all of the process easier, then go for an agent. That is my view. As we grow older, we can not take our money with us when we pass away (although we can 'will' our money to family).

Indeed. Most the expats I know feel the same way. However - those expats are NOT married to my wife. 😅 My Thai wife insisted I get one - and a "happy wife is a happy life". 😅 I can't deny thou the Yellow Book and Pink-ID has come in handy. Ok its saved me a few baht in entering parks/aquarium (where I obtained Thai prices). But that's trivial. I do carry the pink-ID (instead of my passport - where I leave my passport locked up at home) which came in handy once when stopped for an ID check. My pink-ID (and an image of my passport and permission to stay stamp) on my phone sufficed. Without the Pink ID I would have been required to get my passport (which some others who did not have a pink-ID and did not have their passport carried with them, had to do). The big advantage so far has been for being able to use it to unfreeze a foreign trading/bank account, and open a new foreign bank account. The pink-ID # was accepted as a (not-yet-activated) Thai Tax ID Number (TIN). The foreign institutions were being stubborn, and without the TIN they were not going to let me proceed. ... I actually tried to apply for a Thai TIN prior, but the Phuket RD refused to give me one (as I was not meeting their criteria for issuing a TIN nor for activating (yet) my Pink ID# as a online TIN). Phuket RD did note thou, that if activated, my pink-ID might be usable for a TIN for an online tax submission. So in that case, the Pink ID provided as a yet to be activated TIN, was invaluable. I dare say it was timely (although the trading account freeze hurt until I was able to unfreeze using the Pink ID#). Unfreezing allowed me to restructure some stocks and subsequently quickly earned a substantial amount of money. Without this being done, I would have substantially less money today. Luck? Yes. But without the pink-ID. There would have been no luck in such a no pink-ID case. Perhaps - it all depends on one's individual situation.

I agree. Having good health insurance can be very beneficial - especially if one has been on the same health insurance plan for sometime and is not forced to go for a new plan in their later years (ie not forced to look for a new plan in their age 60s to 80s). Back in Europe, shortly after I turned age-50, I had the opportunity to change jobs, that was a very small salary drop, BUT the new job came with a pension, which the old job did not. Further the pension with the new job provided global subsidized health insurance (for all countries except Canada & USA) where >50% of the pension monthly payments are paid for by the European organization where I worked (before retirement). Further, it has a 'cap' on the monthly amount that I need to pay, ... where from age-70 onward, no matter what my age, I will only pay for ~50% of the premium of a 70 year old. Having subsidized insurance is a BIG benefit as I go further into my 70s (and hopefully live into my 80s). Of course that approach does NOT help those in their 70s or 80s who are looking for health insurance. ' Closing the barn door after the horse has gone' does not always help. But it IS something those in their 40s and 50s should be thinking about in advance when they are job hunting. This is especially true if the Health Insurance has excellent coverage.

Which is why many of us are paying close attention to the Thai Revenue Department (RD) issued documents Paw.161 and 162, ... and from those documents is why some claim any income/savings prior to 1-Jan-2024 will be not taxable even if brought into Thailand in a subsequent year. And of course even 'if' such is considered 'income' other factors come into play such as Double Tax Agreements (DTAs) with the source country of one's income ... and of course whether one is on an LTR visa or not ... plus other factors which have been mentioned in this thread (loans , gifts , etc ... ) to provide deductions. This can all get quite complex.

I am not convinced that using a Mastercard or Wise card for Thailand purchases will legally allow one to manage paying less tax in Thailand, ... but I guess the 'jury is still out' on that topic. I've read both sides of the 'debate' on this topic - so I guess time will tell. I use my Wise card globally. Typically before I travel , when I speculate I can get a good price for buying a foreign currency, I will buy the amount I think I will need for the next month or so, using the 'strongest' currency I have to buy such foreign currency. The Thai baht is still pretty strong, so its a bit difficult to adopt that (above) strategy with Thailand. The Wise card being a debit card means it can't be used for everything that a credit card can be used for, but it can still be used for a lot. I suspect it can be used for most Thailand purchases where a Thai bank debit or credit card can also be used. I have a Thai bank credit card (earns me points) that I use instead (of a Wise debit card) in Thailand.

I'm no expert, but I do not believe it is taxable. But I can not tell from the Google translations of Paw.162 if such previous year (such as 2023) foreign income brought into Thailand in 2024 is not assessable, or if it is only tax exempt. I have not seen an official RD english translation of Paw.162 so likely we will need to rely on the Thai to English language translations of others here. Some of us have been hoping that when the English language Thai tax forms for tax year 2024 come out that this may be clarified, ... but these forms have not yet come out, and even if/when they do come out, they may not clarify this. I keep checking here for the 2024 english language Thai Tax forms but no sign of such yet: https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html My hope is that savings (ie income before 1-Jan-2024) will not be considered assessable income when brought into Thailand in the future. Keeping records of one's finances as of 31-Dec-2023 is IMHO a very good idea.

I suspect multiple sources. Typically BoI will ask for your last 2 years of income tax returns which I believe they look at to confirm you are reporting on your income tax return a gross income in excess of the LTR visa required income threshold.

I believe the vast majority of us ( perhaps all ) who chose to go the LTR route and who were successful are happy with chosing this Visa. The complaints that I have read re the LTR Visa are either from those who ( like myself initially) didn't appreciate its benefits relative to our finances, or complaints/criticisms from others who don't qualify for the LTR Visa, or whose finances are structured in a manner unacceptable to BoI, or who can't prove their appropriately structured finances to BoI's satisfaction, or from those who hate paperwork to initially get the Visa. For some even with the money, it may not be easy to get the LTR. But once obtained, I find it much superior to the Type-O/OA Visa that I was on prior. The taxation aspect may prove to be a massive benefit, although I believe "the jury is still out" there.

The return of the Chinese (after COVID), plus more from India, and the influx from Russia, has resulted in the Phuket real estate market doing very well for those selling. In the FAR south of Phuket where I live, the price of condos languished for years, hardly moving up at all. But in the past 18-months, the stagnant trend reversed and used condos (as long as the complex is well maintained by the CJPM/co-owner committee) prices have gone up a lot. .. With regard to the 'seasonal sale' concept, I don't see this as ever being seasonal. It could thou mean one does not move into their condo immediately after purchasing, but rather times their stay in Thailand so to be in the country less than 180 days when one is bringing into Thailand large amounts of post 31-Dec-2023 income. I suspect that this may only apply to those who sold a property outside of Thailand (so to raise the money to purchase a condo inside of Thailand). In my case I bought my Phuket condo in 2016, but only moved to Thailand full time in 2019 (I had previously lived in Thailand from 1997 to 1999, and my Thai wife has family in Phuket - which helps mitigate the risk of buying when not living most the time in Thailand). I don't recommend my approach to one who is new to Thailand as nominally I think it best to rent first. ... And that 'rent first' dynamic could see those who switch from renting to buying, taking >6-months of travel outside of Thailand in the taxation year in which they buy a place. However, like I did, one can buy a condo and let it sit empty for months before moving in (assuming one has the money). I was not doing such a late move into my condo in Phuket to manage taxation, but rather my plans to retire at the end of 2016 was pushed back to 2018 (after my condo purchase) - as my Thai wife wanted to stay in Europe for a couple more years (and I was offered the opportunity to work 2 more years) and we both were fortunate to have fun jobs.

I have a friend who left Malaysia and moved to Hong Kong right after COVID because of Malaysia deciding to tax foreign sourced income. I will be curious to see if my friend moves back to Malaysia if there is a 10 year extension to the tax exemption (assuming he qualifies). With regard to moving back to Malaysia, I suspect not. He is very unhappy with Malaysia's taxation. Instead my friend is closely monitoring the Thailand LTR visa to see what develops. I note though in the video, the video blogger does not provide much detail as to what income is included under the exemption. One needs to watch such videos (IMHO) with care and obtain all the relevant details before jumping to conclusions.

This brings back memories - possibly relevant - possibly not. My Thai wife is a Canadian Permanent Resident (PR), but she left Canada to live with me (in Europe). Living with a Canadian abroad (myself) means she did not lose her Canadian PR status. Living in Europe 90% of the time also meant she had next to no Canadian income (she had trivial Canadian bank interest). A couple of years ago she received a letter from Revenue Canada demanding she file 5 years of Canadian tax returns (even thou she was 95% out of the country of Canada). So we dutifully filled in 5 years of Canadian tax returns (where each tax year it was Revenue Canada that owed my wife a truely trivial amount). In the end - no fines, as she did not make enough interest to be over the tax submission threshold in any taxation year. And Revenue Canada payed her a trivial amount of money (refunding some withholding tax). But the amount refunded was VERY small, and it wasn't enough to compensate for the annoyance of having to file 5 years of Canadian tax returns. But we got Revenue Canada off her back. I wonder if Thai RD will end up also being as bull dog annoying? (sinking their teeth in and shaking back and forth until a useless (?) tax return pops out? ). I hope not. .

I speculate (but do not know for certain) that Phuket RD may have stated the same as Bangkok RD if my details had been different. But when Phuket RD official was (accurately and truthfully) told I am bringing no money into Thailand from my foreign pension, and that I have no Thai income - they stated no TIN needed. (Further they would not for an online tax return activate my pink-ID as an online TIN given they did not believe I needed a TIN). They did thou state thou the pink-ID could be my online TIN once activated. So no Thai income, and not bringing in foreign money into Thailand appears to be a clear line in which no TIN is needed (according to Phuket RD). I brought money into Thailand prior to 1-Jan-2024 (enough to live off of for a few years or more) plus I brought a portion of that money into Thailand (in tax year 2023) right after I obtained my LTR visa.

I think what he really means is if one has assessable Thai income from 2024 tax year + assessable foreign income brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023, which combined is over the relevant Thai assessable income threshold (for filing an income tax return) then such a person needs to get a Thai TIN and file a Thai income tax return before the due date in early 2025. In evaluating one's assessable foreign income, one also needs to consider the wording in the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) of the country from which one's foreign income originates. ... I believe that is what he means. ... I concede I had difficulty at first in understanding that was his meaning, but I now believe that its what he means. And I believe that makes sense. I don't know the precise details as to thresholds nor tax return filing date. And I suspect he also is strongly recommending each expatriate look at their own individual situation and if their assessable income meets the criteria I typed in the 1st para of this response, then it really behooves such individuals to get a Thai TIN as they will likely need to file a Thai tax return. At present I believe this does not apply for me due to not having the pre-requisite assessable income brought into Thailand in the 2024 tax year nor from interest in Thailand (combined).

So what do you suggest? One tell the RD official their view does NOT reflect the official position of the RD branch and cause them to lose face? Tell them they are wrong for refusing to provide a Thai TIN ? or instead simply acknowledge politely what one was told , and continue to monitor the situation over the coming months, and assess when and where one should (possibly) again knock on the door of the Thai RD about getting a TIN? I know my view here. For certain I don't know your view. I do get the sense after being firmly told by a Thai RD official that they will not give a new TIN, nor activate (for online submission) one's Pink-ID as the TIN, ... that you may think one should go over the RD officials head ? , that you may think one should keep insisting to the Thai RD official that they provide the TIN ? As noted, that's not my view - at least not until things become more clear and the dates for tax submissions come MUCH closer. One needs to look at one's specific circumstances. My view? I believe because: (1) I am NOT bringing money into Thailand in the 2024 taxation year - hence for 2024 tax year have inadequate Thai assessable income, and (2) I am on an LTR visa (where my foreign income is not taxable even if I brought it in (which I have not), and (3) I have a pink-ID and hence with the pink-ID I think I could always at the very last day when tax returns are due - show up at the local RD with a filled in paper printed Thai tax form with my pink-ID # in the TIN field, and see what they say then. For certain I will NOT push a local Thai RD official NOW causing them to lose face. Going back now to them would do exactly that - and I think such is a VERY bad idea. Again - I don't understand your view.

I mostly agree - except I have a different take on this last comment. If after visiting the local Thai RD, and after one correctly provides the local Thai RD the absolute truth with regard to one's finances and income, and then the RD tells one they will NOT give one a TIN, and further the RD states no Thai income tax required .... I think this is MORE than just what ONE chooses to believe. Its ALSO what the LOCAL THAI RD BELIEVES. I think discarding what the local Thai RD believes is NOT a good approach. I think that important. Pounding on the Thai RD desk, telling them they are full of sh*t for their refusal to grant a Thai TIN, does not sound to me to be a good approach. Rather I think the best approach is to CONTINUE to monitor the situation, and possibly go back to the local Thai RD (again applying for a TIN) only after there is a bit more clarity. Possibly those with a yellow-book/Pink-ID (and those with an LTR visa) have more flexibility with timing, and possibly NOT. That is MORE than just 'choosing to believe' what one has been told. You and I have very different views on the way forward here.