oldcpu

BoI officers now? There is more than one? Which ones? If so clear why don't they post this on their BoI website? How about Thai tax law? Law that states Tax residents with foreign assessable income over a certain threshold (with no DTA exclusion) must file a tax return. And a Royal Decree that says remitted foreign assessable income is tax exempt, while at the same time Thai RD provide a tax form where taxation exempt assessable income is supposed to be listed. So what you typed doesn't help. I do thou very much appreciate your intent. My plan is to simply wait this out - and I am fortunate to have the luxury of waiting it out. For what it is worth, I hope YOU are right - but I will NOT do my financial planning based only a hope. I have learned the hardway in my lifetime, that planning on only a 'hope' without taking other measures is not a good course of action for me. Again - I do hope you are correct.

I was explaining WHY I stated "the jury is still out". I had not planned to go into detail ... but when asked I thought it necessary to explain. I am not trying to 'beat a dead horse' (and for certain this is not a dead issue. It is very pertinent). no ... it is EXEMPT from Tax. .... There is a BIG difference. Answer this please. Why is there a separate form in the Thai tax return where one lists 'exempt from taxation' income? Why does the RD bother with such a form to list tax exempt income? If what you stated is true, there would be no need for such a form. BUT there is such a form - once again - a form where tax exempt income is listed. OK? Is this clear to you now? I concede you disagree. Fine! Further I hope your view is correct. But for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on hope. No . BoI expressed an opinion on this and when it comes to matters of taxation, it is the Thai RD, following Thai tax law and the Thai Royal decree that matters - NOT some statement of one person ?? from BoI. Do you disagree with that? Do you believe BoI can overrule Thai tax law (ie requirement to file a Thai tax return if one has assessable foreign income - where there is a tax form where tax exempt income is listed), and do you believe the BoI can over rule the Royal Decree where the Royal Decree specifically refers to 'assessable income'? I don't worry. I decided NOT to bring in ANY income (assessable or not) into Thailand for tax year 2024 to 2027 (or longer) until you are proven correct ... which I hope is the case. but once again, for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on my hope and your view. My best wishes to all in how they go about this.

For my LTR visa I tried two different accounts, which each had cash exceeding the amount required to show self health insurance, but because each of those accounts could also be used for trading equities, they were each in turn rejected. In the end I used a "basic" bank account (money in Euros) which had the pre-requisite amount in cash. No. I believe it won't meet the criteria based on my experience (unless things have changed). You may need to setup a separate account , and put the prerequisite amount in cash in that account. Alternatively, if you already have health insurance, you may be able to get your health insurance company to write a short one page letter noting you are covered to the appropriate amount that BoI want to see. I did not go that route to prove Health Insurance, so my hope is that others who successfully went that route will chime in and state specifically how the letter was worded to meet the BoI satisfaction.

lol I guess you never heard of that expression. The point, which perhaps you missed, is if you read the Royal Decree, you will read in section-7 and 8 that it specifies the Minister of Finance overseas the Royal Decree. My understanding is the Thai RD is part of that ministry. Further if one reads the Royal Decree, it is clear that it (1) talks of remitted foreign assessable income, and (2) exempts Wealthy Pensioners (and Wealthy Global citizens) from paying tax on that remitted foreign assessable income. WHAT IT DOES NOT STATE is state that remitted foreign assessable income is not assessable. No where does does the Royal Decree state foreign remitted income is not assessable. Now the Thai RD requires remitted assessable foreign income after 31-Dec-2023, that exceeds a certain threshold (that has not been made not-assessable by a DTA) , have a Thai income tax return filed by Thai tax residents (ie > 180 days in Thailand in a taxation year). So that begs the question, ... does Thai income tax return have to be filed (in accordance with Thai RD instructions) for remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income (where fortunately for the noted LTR visa holders that income also happens to be tax exempt)? The Royal Decree also states failure to comply in any tax year with selected clauses of the Royal Decree (such as following instruction of the Director General (Thai RD from my understanding)) will lose their exemption. This potentially is serious. So to repeat : the Royal Decree refers to remitted assessable income. The Royal Decree does NOT state foreign remitted income is NOT assessable. Now I believe everyone, including myself, HOPE that the Royal Decree means a tax-ID # is NOT needed, and hopefully means NO income tax return is required for LTR-WP/WGC visa holders who have no Thai income (over a certain threshold) who remit 2024 income into Thailand. That is what we hope. BoI have even stated such, BUT the Thai RD (who govern this) have NOT stated that. Further, when my wife (with myself) contacted the Thai RD they noted they had never heard of an LTR visa. So the need to file or not file a tax return (for 2024 assessable income remitted to Thailand) by an LTR-WP/WGC visa holder is by no means clear when I read translations of the Royal Decree. For certain there are those in the Thai RD who have not heard of the Visa and hence have not heard of no requirement to not file a tax return of remitted 2024 tax year income into Thailand.. .... That does not mean a return is required - it just means there are those in the Thai RD who themselves may not know. So to use the expression again "the jury is still out".... I suspect sometime in late year 2025 or maybe even 2026 we will get more clarity on this. The Jury is still out.

I assume they are referring to income earned only AFTER 31-Dec-2023. Yes - I would agree with that, especially if one can not show the money was earned PRIOR to 1-Jan-2024. It might be interesting to see if the traveling habits of a small % of expats (in spending more time out of Thailand) will change as a result? And if the travel habits do change, will there be an age demographic as well involved? And will there also be a nationality demographic, dependent on the DTAs of different countries with Thailand?

I see your point - but I wonder if perhaps they were also just trying to reduce or defer their future work? If say only 2 or 3 blank pages left, and given this is a 10-year visa, they could see that within a year or less, the LTR visa person's passport would be full, and need to be renewed, and the individual might have to come back to their office to transfer the LTR visa over to a new passport. Perhaps (my speculation) is they wish to put that time in the future (when needing to transfer the LTR visa) off in the future as long as possible, for reasons only known to them. Clearly only BoI know the reason - and I suspect they are not telling.

I agree that there is more than one than one thread on this topic. I posted many times on my current experience here. What the Phuket RD office told me (via my Thai wife as translator) that as long as I had insufficient assessable income from within Thailand, and if I was bringing no money into Thailand from outside of the country, then I did not need a Thai Tax_ID number (TIN). Further, other factors come into play in assessing whether one's foreign income is assessed as assessable income if remitted to Thailand. Recently (last year) the Thai RD documents PAW.161 and PAW.162 appear to indicate that any savings as of 31-Dec-2023 and earlier, if brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023, are NOT taxable (and I suspect not considered assessable income). Hence remitting such money is not enough justification to obtain a Thai TIN. Also, if one has foreign income from a country with a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand, dependent on the wording /agreement within that DTA, its possible one's foreign income (such as pensions) may not be taxable in Thailand.... Of course the DTA might say the opposite, so one needs to check their DTA. I guess what I am saying, is this really depends on the specific situation of each person, and its quite possible most expats do not need a to register for Thai taxation. ... BUT in all due honesty - I don't know. I don't know the average financial situation of expats. Every expat needs to examine their own financial situation and make an appropriate determination as to their own requirements.

I too am puzzled about that. I wonder if this was also one of the last few unfilled pages in the passport?

If it were me, with such an email - I would NOT reply by email. Call me paranoid , but I am leery of scammers. If it were me, I would print out the email, and go to the local branch of the bank where I opened my account, and in person ask them to explain. .

There is no distortion in the truth. This goes beyond trading accounts ... I simply referenced ONLY such in my post. I can only deduce you have not really looked into this, or perhaps have few accounts and have not experienced such in different countries. I have German bank personal accounts. With a couple of them, having a Thai residency is no problem. With a 3rd German bank personal account it is a problem. I have Canadian bank personal accounts. Its an entirely different matter (my having Thai residency). The Canadian bank restricts what I can do with the money in that account, and further won't let me open new accounts. So I type again - this goes BEYOND just trading accounts .. It can also affect personal bank accounts which MOST do have. So I would counter and state it is your statement that distorts the truth for some countries and some banks. Each person needs to look at their own situation, and for some of us, having a tax-ID (for our country of residence) is ALSO ESSENTIAL for our personal bank accounts - CONTRARY to what you infer. The muddying I observe has been done in your post that I quoted - perhaps by your not having, what should I say ? not having the international banking experience? I don't know, but your response was bizarre in its inaccuracy. I repeat - everyone NEEDS to look at their own situation. The lawyer could indeed be correct that most expats won't be 'impacted' by personal income tax - however one should define "impacted". Further, here, is a clear Thai government trend here, where there is undeniable "chatter" (as reported by Thai press) by Thai government officials, of them desiring to expand their tax base. Hence these discussions are very relevant - albeit one MUST not jump to conclusions, but rather carefully think through what is needed given one's own situation.

I think Deemoney recently folded / shutdown.

Interesting approach! Thinking of other possibilities ... I wonder if one thou already has a LOT of money already and it is just a matter of 'restructuring' ,... is it possible then to buy (?) a pension annuity that would provided and prove the monthly income to meet BoI requirements? I know nothing about pension annuities (as I already have adequate pensions), but I wonder if that is also a viable approach (obviously ONLY for those with the money).

Do you know the version # of the new app version. I recently received a Krungsri app update. I did NOT need to go to a Krungrsi branch with my passport, cards and passbook to get it to work. My account is Krungsri Exclusive - so perhaps that makes a difference? The version # of my Android phone Krungrsi app is 4.00.04. .

The financial account that I had (which froze my account) also requires a home residence/address, but it also required one reside in that home country address >182 days per year. I was only in that 'home address' two to three weeks a year (it was a relative's address that I was using in my home country). The financial organization determined (via the country Revenue Department) that I no longer resided in that address > 182 days per year. So the financial organisation (1) froze my trading accounts, and at the same time contacted me and required that I (2) confirm what the country revenue department told them (that I no longer resided at that address >182 days per year), and (3) fill in a form with the tax ID # of the country where I resided in order to unfreeze my account. When I initially correctly replied that I had no tax-ID (in Thailand), they still would not let me proceed with my trading account. They gave me 2 choices : (a) obtain a Thai Tax ID # and still keep my accounts 'frozen' (ie no new equity positions - I could only close existing positions), or (b) close my trading account. I chose (b) - I closed my trading account. At about the same time, I then found another financial institution in the same home country that would let me open an account even thou I lived in Thailand, BUT they required I provide a Thai tax ID. I tried to get a Thai tax ID at the same time (my Thai wife was pushing me to get a Thai tax ID) but I failed (Phuket RD would not give me one), although the Phuket RD did state my pink-ID could be my tax-ID if activated. So I passed that information on to the 'other financial institution' (giving them my pink-ID # with the caveat that the Thai RD advised me that they had not activated that ID # yet). The financial institution was happy with that even with the noted caveat that the Thai tax ID was not yet active. The timing was partly beneficial - as I was immediately able to trade ,and made a very quick large financial return with days of opening the new account (basically doubled my income for the year). The return would have been MASSIVELY better (equivalent ~10 years income in a six month period) had my account not been frozen prior by the 1st financial institution, but that is all water under the bridge, and that is yet another 'fish that got away' story of my life. 😥 We all have those stories.😅 In truth though I can't complain. I have a new active trading account. The financial institution is OK that I reside in Thailand. And everything is 'above board' and 'legal'.

I am on an LTR visa. To qualify for the LTR I used a condo purchase from almost a decade ago as proof of my investment in Thailand, together with foreign pension income, where I don't bring that foreign income into Thailand. Prior to being on the LTR visa, I was on a Type-OA, and later a Type-O visa. I did not want to bother with the 65K THB/month approach for the annual extension , so I simply put 800k THB in a Thai bank and promptly forgot about that money until annual extension time came around. I was not interested / concerned about low interest on such a (for me) trivial amount. Apologies if that (forgetting about the 800k) appears elitist, or harsh (for those who are stunned anyone would put 800k THB in a low interest bearing Thai bank account). I worked hard and saved money all my life, and now that I am retired I am fortunate to have the benefits of that being ... relatively trivial. As for living, I have been gradually, legally, been moving money into Thailand since year 2005, increasing the amount in 2016 up to year 2023, when I stopped bringing money in. I plan to now wait and see how the tax return requirements pan out. Life is too short to worry about such so I will take a conservative approach.

Understand. Tell that to my Thai wife! She pushed me to apply - she applied (for me) online where that application went to Bangkok RD. They forwarded it to Phuket RD. Phuket RD called our household (on the phone), and my Thai wife did all the talking on the phone. So no tax-ID, but my Thai wife had her way in trying to apply for such for me. She is happy that she tried. And a happy wife is a happy life. 😂

I agree with what sometimewoodworker noted. Likely using your US account is best. You don't need a multi-currency account do do a Wise transfer, although if using Wise is going to be a regular thing then you may consider getting such an account. I did read where someone claimed one could transfer money from Thailand to Wise using a Thai credit card (into a foreign currency in Wise) is possible, but I don't know if that is true. And even if true, I think most of the time it makes no financial sense as one ends up paying a bad currency exchange rate (from their Thai bank) with their Thai credit card just to get the money into Wise. ... Its far far better to use your US$ account. The big advantage of wise, for small monetary transfers, is its excellent exchange rate. If you want a Wise multi-currency account with a physical Wise debit card, and if you have relatives/friends in USA, you could see if your relative/friends will let you use their US address ,and using that as your multi-currency account address when applying for the debit card. If successful the Wise debit card will be sent to that USA address and you can then have the relatives/friends send the debit card to you (via postal mail). Once the card arrives in Thailand you can then activate the card while in Thailand (until activated the card won't function). However to simply send money to the Philippines (from your USA account) you do not need a Wise multi-currency account.

That was sort of the answer I obtained from the Phuket RD when I applied for a tax-ID (and failed), although they also noted that since I had NO Thai income AND that I was also NOT bringing money into Thailand I did not need a tax-ID. When Phuket RD were advised I was on an LTR-WP visa and asked would I need a tax-ID if I brought in foreign income earned during the tax reporting year ( ie 2024 tax year and subsequent tax years) ? Their answer? They never heard of an LTR visa. They advised, they would call me back. They never did call back. They also noted my pink-ID # "might" become my Tax-ID for online tax submissions ONLY after it was activated, and given they did not believe I needed a tax-ID they were NOT going to activate the TIN for online tax submission. Fortunately I prepared for this eventuality (of not being 100% certain of the tax return requirements (is that type of certainty even possible in Thailand ? )) so I had previously in 2023 (and years prior) brought enough money into Thailand to pay for my current standard of living for more than just a few more years. I am fortunate to have that luxury. So I plan just to monitor this situation , and wait - (hoping in the mean time that an unexpected massive expense might not come up (such as my wife wanting us to buy a new condo (while keeping the old condo) or something crazy like that)). For Scouse123 ... what tax office did you visit?

Unfortunately, not. In my case, I was specifically asked for the TIN from the country where each year I resided the most. That was Thailand (where I reside for > 180 days/year). The tax # from my country(s) of citizenship was NOT acceptable. The tax # had to be from the country where I currently resided the most. Until I could produce that to their satisfaction, I had two trading accounts frozen.

I agree with what Chiang Mai typed. Maybe as a minimum, keep official permanent bank/trading account records of the precise state of your savings as of end-of-business 31-Dec-2023. That 'might' come in useful in the future, to prove money you bring in to Thailand now, was savings from before 1-Jan-2024, and not part of your monthly pension income from after 31-Dec-2023. You may wish to keep a small spreadsheet accounting for any remitted money after 31-Dec-2023, so to prove you were able to use savings from before 1-Jan-2024 and that you were not dipping into post 31-Dec-2023 pension income. This is my speculation as to how to track this. I have read of others setting up separate bank accounts to make this even more clear - where my hope is that opening a new account won't be necessary if one keeps excellent records. In truth thou - I don't know precisely the requirement here. Frankly, I do not believe anyone knows just yet. .

No. Its not a big deal. But in my case, if I were to decide to submit a Thai tax return for the 2024 tax year, I would have to either: (1) print out 2024 tax forms on paper, fill them in by hand, and then hand carry to Phuket RD (likely with my pink-ID # filled in place of the Thai TIN, or leave that TIN field blank and see what Phuket RD says). It likely means some time spent filling in tax forms prior to going to RD office, and then maybe 1/2 day or longer sitting at the Phuket RD office while they sort what to do with my tax return, or (2) first go to Phuket RD office, and again apply for a Thai tax ID number (TIN) where some months back the Phuket RD refused to give me a TIN. Again, possibly 1/2 day or longer sitting in the Thai RD office while they scratch their heads and figure out what to do with me. And then after getting a TIN, going back home and doing the online Thai tax submission. However, given I elected to remit NO foreign income into Thailand for year-2024 tax year, and given my interest from Thai bank/bonds is less than the amount needed to file a Thai tax return ... I don't have to do anything now. But I am most curious to know. There could be an unexpected reason in next few years when I may have to bring more money into Thailand, so I want to understand the full implications of that, if and when the time comes.

Lets hope you are correct. Note thou, the Royal decree does NOT say " remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable" Rather (modifying your words) it states " remitted ASSESSABLE income by LTR holders is not taxable" Note the word "assessable". The Royal Decree to the best of my undestanding is clear there. It says remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income is not taxable. It does NOT say the remitted foreign income is not assessable. Is that important? I don't know. But I am going to be cautious. I would be happy to be proven wrong in my understanding of the translations of the Royal Decree but I suspect I do have the translation right. So it now comes down to, is foreign income remitted to Thailand that the Royal Decree CLEARLY indicates is assessable income, suddenly magically now not assessable because the Royal Decree says no tax is due. Don't get me wrong. I want to believe your view correct, ... i want to believe BoI statement is correct, but I also note what the Royal Decree states and what the Thai RD state. Hence MY choice to manage my finances for the next few years until any ambiguity on this is removed best can be determined by experiences reported in the next few years..

That is also my approach at present time (I also have an LTR-WP visa), where for year 2024-to-2026 or so, I have no plans to bring more money into Thailand, until it is more clear as to the Thai policy with the LTR visa and the need (or no need) in regards to tax returns. If not clear by ~2026 or so, then any income I bring in will be from funds saved from before 1-Jan-2024. What I have done is make a print / electronic copy of my financial position (equities/cash) dated 31-Dec-2023 at the close of business day, so that I can prove its credible that any money that I might bring into Thailand (likely bring in after year 2026) is from savings BEFORE 1-Jan-2024. I will keep those records. My hope is that NONE of this is necessary, and that in the next year or two it shall be more clear that no-income tax return will be needed for LTR-WP visa holders. I feel fortunate to have the luxury to be able to adopt this approach.

There has been no changes that I am aware of since early this year. Last year there was PAW.161 and PAW.162 which does not mention the LTR visa, but rather for all tax residents in Thailand (ie anyone, including both Thai and foreigners, who spends a accumulated time of >180 days in Thailand) will have to pay tax on any assessable income brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023. Money (income/savings) from prior to 1-Jan-2024 brought into Thailand will not be taxed if brought into Thailand. (EDIT: DTA with income source country also has to be considered here). However there is ALSO the Royal Decree 743 in force. As you likely know the Royal Decree 743 states that for Wealthy pensioners and Wealthy global citizens, assessable income brought into Thailand is exempt taxation. Note it refers to 'assessable' income. ... The Royal Decree 743 states nothing about tax returns (directly), although the Royal Decree does state (in section-6) that a foreigner must comply with rules, procedures, and conditions prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department. The concern here is that might mean having to file a tax return even if one is exempt paying tax on assessable foreign income. The Royal Decree also states (section-7) that a failure to comply with the rules in section-6 will result in benefits suspended for that tax year. When you were informed by BoI, did you talk at all about bringing or not bringing any assessable income into Thailand? Did you talk about any Thai income you may have? EDIT: I assume not as re-reading your post you note no Thai income. FOR CERTAIN for any (not you) who have Thai income over a certain amount, they MUST FILE A THAI TAX RETURN and what BoI stated does NOT cover that situation. Its less clear to me if a tax return is required if the LTR wealthy pension visa holder's only income is assessable foreign income. I ask because Phuket RD, specifically advised me that if I brought no money into Thailand (and if I had no Thai income), I did not have to file a tax return, nor would they provide me an 'active' tax-ID number (TIN). So if you told BoI you did not plan to bring money into Thailand when on your LTR visa, then that obscures the assessement as to the applicability of the BoI statement on tax return requirements to all Wealthy Pensioners. So what did you say to BoI about foreign income you planned to bring into Thailand. Did you say anything about that to BoI? ... and one last point, I believe the deciding criteria (re: tax return needed or not needed for an LTR Wealthy pension visa holder) is the Thai Revenue Department (RD) and not BoI - although obviously it is of interest to hear of the BoI opinion. .

I believe you can in Phuket.