oldcpu

good advice - but when I asked the Phuket RD official, he had no clue as to what an LTR visa was. He had never heard of such. He stated he would find out and contact my wife (and myself). He never did. Maybe next year, I will 'bang on his (the local RD office) door' again - but its pretty clear to me (albeit based on this one local tax (RD) official) that even the RD officials do not yet know the answer.

My wish / hope (?) for the future is that the definition as to what is 'assessable' income, and what is not 'assessable income' becomes more clear in the future. I do not believe that definition is as clear as some may believe it to be. I am on an LTR visa (Wealthy Pensioner) and I have been watching the threads with interest to assess how much of this might impact me. The Royal Decree for the LTR visa (hopefully a correct translation) states that that Income tax (under part-2 of chapter-3 in title-2 of the Revenue code) is exempted for foreigners on LTR categorized as a Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from Thailand Professional for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code, derived in the previous tax year, from employment, or from business, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand. My current interpretation (which could be wrong) is it means assessable income brought into Thailand for those LTR visa holders will be tax exempt. But it does NOT state the foreign income is not assessable (but it is tax exempt). For me that suggests that a Thai Tax return may be required (even thou no tax due) if I bring income (earned from after 1-Jan-2024) into Thailand. There are those on the LTR visa who disagree with my interpretation of the Royal Decree translation to English and who claim that this means no Thai Tax return required for the noted LTR visa categories. They claim the LTR means the foreign income is not assessable. I do NOT know if their assessment is correct. Nor do I know if mine is correct. For all I know they may be correct. Given this uncertainty in my mind (as I do not know what interpretation is correct) I have decided NOT to bring any money into Thailand for a few years, until this is clear. By such an approach, the best I understand from a Thailand RD official (in Phuket) is that I do not need a TIN nor file a tax return, as long as I bring no money into Thailand. I have the luxury of this 'wait and see' approach as prior to 1-Jan-2024, I brought enough money into Thailand to pay for my living here for a few years. My pension comes from Canada (where the DTA says my pension is taxed in Canada) and also my pension from Germany (where the DTA says my pension is NOT taxed in Germany) and also my pension from a European government organization (where there is no DTA - although I worked in Germany at the time for this European government organisation) ... where these may or may not be relevant given my LTR visa status. I believe some see the need to file, or the need not to file, a Thailand tax return as being crystal clear, ... but I for one, at present time, do not see this as crystal clear. So I am watching this all with interest. My hope is that this thread remains civil. There is nothing (IMHO) to be gained by not being civil in our discussions.

I suspect all that will happen at most is there will be a 'changing of the guard' ... where those thriving on the current tax breaks (and worried of the future) will depart ... and those where the taxation is not an issue will very very VERY quickly fill the place of each and every one of those who depart.

I read elsewhere the money finally arrived - which is good news. I have not seen any behaviour change in money transfer timing with Wise. As I inferred in a previous post - the timing can be a bit inconsistent at times - but I suspect my situation is different. I do transfers to about a dozen different countries, ... and receive funds nominally from Canada, USA, Germany, and Australia. I typically maintain a small amount of money in different currencies in Wise, so its not often I have to transfer from a Bank account in country-A to a Bank account in country-B via Wise (without the money first being in Wise for weeks or longer). I simply try to ensure I do not keep too much money in my Wise account as I believe it not insured and further the interest is either none or the interest is very very low (for some currencies). I note thou, by having some money already in Wise, I can obtain access to funds much quicker, ... and transfer funds to different places in the world much quicker (if the funds originate from Wise account). If I first have to transfer the money into Wise it takes a lot longer. This is NOT an approach for many, but I guess my financial situation gives me the luxury to be able to do such. Unfortunately for those in Thailand who want a Wise debit card (which I find very useful when traveling around the world), I believe one needs a address from a small select group of countries so to obtain such. My hope is that if /when Thailand legally allows internet banking that the situation with Wise will improve in regards to Thailand usability.

Out of curiosity, I took a closer (albeit not conclusive for me) look at the Canada - Thai DTA article-18 for Pensions. I note it states: So this is clear ...that CPP (Canada Pension Plan) and OAS (Old Age Security) are ONLY taxable in Canada (the Contracting State and the first mentioned state). I note thou, that an RRSP/RRIF is a registered savings plan that need not be for past employment. Rather it is a saving to assist in retirement, although one's annual contribution limit to an RRSP does have a ceiling based on one's income - and so - does that make an RRSP/RRIF a pension/similar remuneration for past employment? Para-2 of article-18 is very confusing to me: For me to understand para-2, I needed to assess who is the payer of an RRSP/RRIF ? Is it the individual himself who pays himself out of his Canada based RRSP/RRIF ? or is it the financial institution (in Canada) where the RRSP/RRIF money is kept. If it is the financial institution, then it is clear the income is deemed to arise in Canada - and tax payed to Canada. But if the payer is assessed to be the individual (who permanently resides in Thailand) then the the income would deem to arise in Thailand. I assume this (income deemed to arise in Thailand) is incorrect, and the payer of the funds out of RRSP/RRIF deemed to be the financial institution holding the RRIF/RRSP (and hence this is taxed in Canada) - although frankly, the wording here in article-18, leaves a LOT to be desired.

If possible - only include salient pages - and also, attach an explanation PDF (in English language) pointing out the salient information. I believe what they want is proof of your global income. So you need to specifically point to that number in the tax return, so that they can find such.

I agree with what Rob Browder noted. Try to find an inexpensive translation service. In my case (for Canada) I gave them my 2020 and 2021 tax returns. But since I applied in Dec-2022/Jan-2023, BoI asked for my year 2022 tax return. I ended up giving them three tax return years. BoI also asked for proof of my pensions (one of which comes from Germany) ... However the financial records for that is in German language - and fortunately my pension income (without that pension) already exceeded the pre-requisite amount. So I sent BoI a revised PDF reply / upload of my income (without my German pension amount included) and I also followed it up with a phone call, noting I already exceeded the income amount (from other English language pension sources) and I did not need proof of my German pension to meet the required income level. Also - as I went a self health insurance route, I had to prove equivalent of $100k US$ in a bank account anywhere in the world. I did not use my large bank account(s) in Germany to prove such as I would have to have such translated to English from German language - so I was fortunately able to use an account in Thailand that had the necessary amount. If you do find a good translation service (for German to English) please advise as to the service you use - as in 3.5 years when my LTR comes up for renewal, I may decide to use a German financial source - in which case I may have to go for a translation.

There are two aspects here. 1. There is Thai RD Order 161 together with Thai RD Instruction 162. Together this states any assessable foreign income (from tax year 2024 or later tax year) brought into Thailand commencing 1-Jan-2024 (and later), is potentially subject to Thai tax. Nominally the understanding is that foreign income/savings in place BEFORE 1-Jan-2024, that is brought into Thailand is not affected/nor planned to be taxed even if brought into Thailand in subsequent years. These two Thai RD documents are in place now. < and for others reading this - if my understanding is wrong there please correct me > . 2. The Thai RD management are pushing to also tax foreign assessable income even if NOT bought into Thailand. However that has not happened yet. Edit: The above is for foreigners who are resident in Thailand 180 days or greater cumulative time in any taxation/calendar year.

Some of us (perhaps not many) as soon as 161 and 162 came out, before the end of calendar/tax year 2023, brought a substantial amount of money into Thailand, such that we can live here for a number of years, until the tax situation clarifies. For those of us who had the luxury of doing such, we don't need to hit an ATM to bring money in from abroad. And we won't (for 2024 tax year ,... 2025 tax year ... 2026 tax year) bring any foreign savings nor income into Thailand - and we have no Thai income to speak of. Eventually, after a number of years, .. yes ...we will need to bring money into Thailand ... but that bridge can be crossed when the time comes - and the 'road more clear'. So that is "what we are going to live on".

I guess the key word there is "good". We have no control if a company with different funds decides to decides to change their fund manager. Which could be "good" or "bad". I have always had the view that the primary purpose of a fund is to make money for those running the fund, ... and to do so they need to convince investors to let them play with the investor's money. Having typed that - I have no opinion as to what approach is better in practice .... go with a fund manager? go with an index fund/ETF? or trade on one's own with one's own assessment ? or a mix? But I do read the occasional thread (such as this) to see if there is something I need to try to learn and attempt to drive good information spotted into my thick skull. 🙂

I can't confidently speak for transfers from Australia to Wise but for transfers from : * a German bank to Wise sometimes for me takes close to 24 hours - and sometimes a LOT quicker - and on very rare occasions longer * a Canadian bank to Wise sometimes for me takes MORE than 24 hours - and sometimes a LOT quicker - and on very rare occasions longer. I typically try to transfer any money to Wise very long in advance, such that any Wise delay won't impact my plans.

Originally the 'chat' had been that we could expect the new tax forms (and presumably explanatory notes) in Nov. I note the Thai language forms (for 2024 tax year) are available (best I can determine using Google translation): https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html However the English language (for 2024 tax year) are not yet available: https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html I tried using Google translate on the Thai version to gain some insight - but either there is no further insight, or the Google translation is poor, or my understanding of the translation is poor. so I agree its a wait and see until the English language version of the Thai tax forms shows up for the 2024 tax year.

Glad to read its working now. Once setup, with such an account, one does NOT need to maintain money in a currency in order to get the account details in the future. For example, currently I have no money in Hungarian forint. So if I click on "HUF" I get a circle (with Hungarian flag) and "0 HUF" in large font. Under that is a small (the account #I assume) with a "greater than" symbol to the right ofthe small number. I CLICK on the small number. It gives me my HUF account details (for receiving money from a bank in Hungary). I don't use such, as I don't have an HUF account (I set this up some years back for travel to Hungary). I ended up cancelling that trip, so I withdrew money out of HUF (converted to a different currency). But I still have the HUF account. The point is, once setup, even with no money in a particular currency, one can still get the account details. The foreign currency 'account' has thou, to have been setup first. It reads now that you are setup again - and good to go. Great news !

Assuming I understand your question correctly ... - Log into Wise with a browser - In the "Home" menu click on the "AUD" account - Look under the circle (with Australian flag) where it says "AUD balance" and it will state in a large font how much you have in AUD. Under that in very small font will be a small 'account #' (with an orange circle and exclamation mark in front and a 'greater than' simple to the right of the small number account number). CLICK ON THAT number That should give you your account details. At least that works for me.

Yes. I saw something on my Wise a while back for my Australian Wise details. I had to recheck and change my records there, as Wise changed the details of my Wise Australia.

I typed I assumed it NOT possible: You stated I was wrong there , but then you in essence in part stated the same thing. What part of what I stated was wrong?

In the past I have done both transactions (ie sometimes foreign currency from outside of Thailand to a Thai baht account, .... and sometimes foreign currency from outside of Thailand to an FCD account). A lot depends on factors other than the current exchange rate at the time of the transfer when one decides to do the transfer. With regard to Wise, I find Wise is good for relative modest amounts of money. But for large amount transfers (say to buy a condo or such) then Wise is often not the cheapest approach, and a nominal Swift transfer could be superior (dependent on the Banks involved).

... with the added caveat that this only refers to income earned after 31-Dec-2023 and that foreign savings and income earned prior to 1-Jan-2024 is not taxable when brought into Thailand per RD order 161 and RD instruction 162.

Reference the DTV visa - it is still relatively new. I suspect with time it will be possible to open a Thai bank account with that visa, .... and for all I know it may be feasible now with some banks (and/or agents).

As of 31-Dec-2023 , until some of the tax aspects are clarified , that is in essence what I am doing, albeit I am on a different visa and we are likely talking about a different amount of money. As you note - one can go for many years with such an approach, and it is compliant with Thai RD instruction 161 and with Thai RD order 162. Hopefully within a few years things should be much more clear. In the mean time still, thou, be subject to Thai tax law if one decides to stay long enough to be a Thai tax resident - which means one should be familiar with any DTA with the country of one's income, ... and also maintain good records for the global funds one had prior to 1-Jan-2024 , and also good records of transactions after that date, in case one wishes to bring more funds into Thailand - and still be able to credible prove ( if audited ) when the income was earned.

Possibly we are not talking about the same things. The Thai RD can find out that one brings money into the country via wire transfer. Whether they decide to act upon that is up to them. Perhaps their 'curiousity' or 'investigation' triggered if a certain amount of money is reached ? I don't know their criteria. If they do decide to act, and if they decide to question an individual (who is a Thai tax resident) as to the source of one's income and why it is not in a tax return, then I assume that the individual will then have to prove the funds are not assessable. I assume the Thai government will only act if they are concerned there could be tax avoidance - but as I noted before, I am no tax expert.

I don't think the Thai RD cares. I have read (and I could be wrong) that one is supposed to self assess if their income is "assessable income" by the Thai definition of such, and after 31-Dec-2023 if that income (from year 2024 tax year and later) is brought into Thailand it is to be considered taxable, if it is also 'assessable' income. In defining assessable income, things like a DTA (between Thailand and another country) with a foreign company come in to play which could be tricky ?? for a digital nomad to show a DTA. If the foreigner does (or does not) submit a tax form, then only if there is an audit by the Thai RD could the foreigner land into trouble if they did not correctly report their assessable income brought into Thailand (after 31-Dec-2023). However I am VERY FAR from being knowledgeable on this topic - so let see what others chime in and say.

Interesting ... I assume the (UK ? ) pension transfer and the Credit Union savings account transfers are done via Swift. Do they deduct a small transfer fee when they do such? My hope is that with the believed upcoming changes to Thailand government in the future likely accepting selected online banking, that the services offered by Wise (for Thailand residents) will be allowed by Thailand government to improve. When I was on a Type-OA visa, for a short while I used a monthly transfer to Bangkok Bank via Wise as my financial proof for Visa extensions ... but in the end I found it simply easier to switch to keeping 800k THB in the Bangkok Bank (and later switched to the 800k THB in Krungsri bank). But that is off topic. Thanks for the post re: your Wise account with a Thailand address.

Interesting. How difficult is it for you to transfer money into your wise account (with a Thai address)? I assume it not possible to directly transfer Thai baht from a Thai bank into the Wise account into Thai baht currency holding. Please correct me if I am wrong. How about money from US or European based accounts? Do you have to do such via a Swift transfer, or can you do a simple bank transfer (which for example is possible if one has a Wise account with a European address). I assume it also possible to transfer money into a Wise account (when one uses a Thai address) using a debit or credit card, but I suspect that would have some fee associated.

With respect ,... I suspect ( albeit I am unsure) it is more complex than this. You stated "income" (and did not state "assessable income"). Apologies for my 'harping' on this, but lets consider what was noted in 161 and 162, where income prior to 1-Jan-2024 is not considered taxable in Thailand. You do NOT include such in your list of "ONLY" considerations - where I believe that timing is a consideration. I think (again I am uncertain) that income prior to 1-Jan-2024 may not be assessable income. Further, there is the question for those holding an LTR visa. Is their (LTR visa holders) foreign income from after 31-Dec-2023 considered assessable (but not taxable) income in Thailand. Ok - one could argue I am pointing out exceptions - but never the less, I think care is needed when stating "really only one consideration to make". Best wishes.