msg362

The 14-140 lens is silent in focussing,is the 100-300 equally quiet? important when videoing.

As you say, get a decent ( heavy!!) tripod with a fluid head. If you didn't know already, Photobug near Chang Puak gate has a reasonable selection.

I've got the same camera with the 14-140 lens. Superb video as well as stills. One small issue, it has a 2.5 mm jack plug, not standard, but you can plug in a remote shutter release or a microphone. Must look at the 100-300 lens !

No one has mentioned Bangkok Airways. Advantage is a lounge before the flights both in BKK and CNX. Prices about the same as Thai. Service excellent. Now my preferred carrier.

The old chiang mai cultural centre on the south side of the city does a Khantoke dinner and dance every night I think. No jokes but nice dances etc

"reduced service and illegal overpricing"

First of all, why did you pay before receiving the wash?

Second, if you can't stand paying 100B for washing your hatchback, go to Lotus and buy a sponge and cheap wash liquid for 100B.

Use some old T-shirts to dry and you might get 10-15 washes out of that... less than 10B/wash! WOW you can do a great job and not worry about bending your own trim either!

Some Thai friends have recommended the carwash at Meechok Plaza to me. They take their rides there for 200B/wash. Why don't you give that a try?

I mean in this weather, how often do you have to wash your luxury hatchback anyway, once every 2 or 3 weeks at most?

Diamond and 80B don't belong in the same sentence.

I know the guy that posted this, it's not a luxury hatchback I can assure you, it's very old and small. His point is that they changed the price without telling him, it's principle, not 20 baht. ( I made it bold to make it more obvious)

I suppose in general conversation it comes up and you can work it out . Friends of mine are sort of basic Christian, Catholic etc. They know I don't believe and really it's not ever a serious point of conversation. ( I do ask silly questions sometimes). I discuss my atheist beliefs with other like minded people sometimes. But it extends further than that into evolution, free will etc. Another topic If a JW turns up and goes away fast I have no problem that is unless he is willing to listen too.

I'd be happy to engage in a sensible, serious discussion on religion anytime , but those with certainty are often impervious to logic and reason and simply won't engage. It's those people it's simply not worth trying to engage in a discussion.

What IS TRULY UNBELIEVABLE IS YOU PEOPLE ARE STILL HERE ON THIS INANE TOPIC.

Why are you reading it?

(PS the caps lock is usually on the left side of the keyboard, be careful not to press it)

You live in a place where we do not have free speech

Interesting you say that.

http://www.nationmul...h-30154496.html

We veer off-topic but it's true. I only raised it as a poster was raising the issue of JWs and 'free speech' (which I TOTALLY agree with) and, to be accurate, we live in a highly censored society hence the debate in the article you posted. Anyway my thread was about imposing on others - they can believe what they like and do what they like but leave me alone

Clearly a misunderstanding, we agree ( except about the indoctrination of hill tribe kids). what was it a Jesuit said? 'Give me a child until it's seven and it's mine for life'? I am not sure of the exact quote but it's something like that. That is why I do not like 'missionaries' converting hill tribe kids.

No problem with the first part of this sentence but they do not have the right to bore me silly. Nor do I think it is right to convert young hill tribe kids.

That's were you're entirely wrong. It's a slippery slope to outlaw thought & speech. One man's asshol_e is another man's sage, and once society outlaws one or the other we are in trouble. As far as I can tell, in Thailand, as in most of ther countries, the JW have the right to bore you silly and you have the right to slam the door in their face. But you don't have the right to prohibit their speech.

You live in a place where we do not have free speech so how do you reconcile that?

Anyway I disagree. I'd rather live in a place where people have the RIGHT to believe whatever they want and to talk openly about it and share between those of like minds - but not uninvited (no Buddhist door knockers as far as I know).

ER??? I've never said I want to prohibit their freedom of speech, and of course they can believe what they want, but please don't speak to me, it's silly!. I think I'll start believing on the flying spaghetti monster, but please don't lock me up if you see me spouting off. ( I will become a Pastafarian, just like that guy in Austria)

OK I'll change the word from 'moronic' to idiotic' or 'daft' if that helps. The point is that JWs believe in something that is not verifiable and is a joke to many people. If they kept quiet I'd be happy, it's the knocking on doors etc I don't like. equally if find it offensive that Mormons spend lots of money trying to convert hill tribe children to their way of believing. ( don't get me started on Scientology!!). There is a great deal of money, mainly from the US supporting these outfits. Somehow, absurd beliefs, because they are labelled 'religion' escape from normal criticism and debate.

No region is verifiable. If religious people could be argued with there would be no religious people. But the point is that they have the right to believe anything they want, and also the right to tell you or me about it ad nasuem. I'm an atheist, but I'd never want to live in a place where people were not allowed to promote their views, religious or otherwise.

No problem with the first part of this sentence but they do not have the right to bore me silly. Nor do I think it is right to convert young hill tribe kids.

nope - they were farang in nice ties

Well, they at least need complimenting on their language skills (what if mostly Thai's answer the door)?

It can't be easy explaining The Revelation of St John the Divine in Thai.....most people can't make sense of it in English.

Ah but it's likely the Thais will smile, nod and agree and everyone will be happy. ( Then carry on as usual)

Funcat!

You've inspired me ( or it might have been a revelation). I now have the ambition to be the first Professor of Teaology. All sects would be allowed ( I'm tolerant, not bigoted). We could have the Assam sect from India, a Ceylon sect, a Kenyan sect and if anyone want to start a sect based on rose petals I wouldn't mind!

so....are you gonna go "door to door" spreading this "good message" ??

No I'll offer cups of tea. If the residents are coffee drinkers then I'll do my best to convert them

Funcat!

You've inspired me ( or it might have been a revelation). I now have the ambition to be the first Professor of Teaology. All sects would be allowed ( I'm tolerant, not bigoted). We could have the Assam sect from India, a Ceylon sect, a Kenyan sect and if anyone want to start a sect based on rose petals I wouldn't mind!

Can't someone put an end to this?

The OP should be made to walk in penance barefoot up Doi Sutep for his foolish complaint and subsequently starting such a humourless, mindless, and at times nasty thread.

ER? it's a bit like television, if you dont like it you don't have to watch /read it!

....(sorry,am I allowed to post this?),but this is sooo "humourless"...well,lighten up boyz

OK If I believe in Russell's 'teapot' am I a teaist? and if you don't are you an Ateaist?

Can't someone put an end to this?

The OP should be made to walk in penance barefoot up Doi Sutep for his foolish complaint and subsequently starting such a humourless, mindless, and at times nasty thread.

ER? it's a bit like television, if you dont like it you don't have to watch /read it!

Its quite well known that JW's do not believe in hell, they preach that large part of humanity will live in Paradise on earth and yes, they believe they have the truth! Would it be much of a believer of any faith, if he or her did not think they had the "truth"?

Would you hire a salesman for your company who had say 50% believe in your product? Perhaps offered your competitors work as well on his sales trips? How about if he simply had no faith in your product, offered it to nobody..... it sure would be convenient to lots of people to be relevied of the pestering salesman. At least he could then think he wasn't bothering anyone, not upsetting your competitor and making everyone happy!

What happens to the rest? where do they go? Where is the evidence for such a claim?

so religion is akin to selling soap powder?

Can I go door to door telling everyone about Russell's teapot, claim it is a religion and demand respect and expect tax cuts? If people said it was absurd would they be bigoted?

Anyone who can believe that god dictated to a 19th Century man on gold tablets deserves to be called a moron.

This is where people here straddle on religious bigotry. Just because someone believes something that you do not believe does not make them a moron. If that were the case then the entire world becomes moronic, which it seems to be some days, but not because of beliefs. Look, I am an a-theist, I don't believe in any invisible man in the sky. But most of my friends do not share my thoughts as they believe in some sort of theistic deity associated with one myth or another, and the last thing I would call these people are morons. On the contrary, they are for the most part good, caring people, especially the Mormons I have met.

to believe in the absurd is moronic

It is not a subtle difference between the usage of the adjective moronic and the usage of the noun moron. The implication of calling the person who believes what you do not as a "moron" is unjustified and is indeed a sign of bigotry.

OK I'll change the word from 'moronic' to idiotic' or 'daft' if that helps. The point is that JWs believe in something that is not verifiable and is a joke to many people. If they kept quiet I'd be happy, it's the knocking on doors etc I don't like. equally if find it offensive that Mormons spend lots of money trying to convert hill tribe children to their way of believing. ( don't get me started on Scientology!!). There is a great deal of money, mainly from the US supporting these outfits. Somehow, absurd beliefs, because they are labelled 'religion' escape from normal criticism and debate.

Those accusing non-believers of bigotry should take a closer look at the dictionary themselves. Being anti-religion does not equate to being anti-religious people. There is a major distinction. To make it clearer to the hard of understanding, I am anti-religion, while noting clear differences in the effect of monotheistic religions, to, say, deist or pantheist worldviews. At the same time, I have some great and close Christian/Muslim friends.

This was a quote

I've looked up the definition of 'bigot' it means intolerance of other people's ideas. I tolerate religious nut cases, just think they are daft. But please let them tolerate me and leave me alone please. To my mind, those who try to convert are the bigots as they KNOW they have the only truth and are often intolerant of other peoples beliefs, but enough said.

Have you considered that those that are trying to convert you are not trying to control you, but that they are true believers who are trying to save you from purgatory? Suppose you were a true believer and knew that someone who was heading to hell and you were confident that you could save them. If you then tried to save them.would you be guilty of "bigotry" or "arrogance" or would you merely be dong the responsible thing? Some might think that idlly sitting by while someone was self-destructing was more arrogant than knocking on someone's door.

You prove my point. There is no evidence for purgatory, hell and the rest. They have a faith, not based on evidence, simply belief. Please keep them away from me, they are boring. They have no tolerance for my postion ,which is until someone can show me verifiable evidence then I will not believe, but I have looked extensively. You may notice I'm not sitting idly by, I'm making my position clear, but not trying to impose it on others.

To illustrate. If I were to believe in Bertrand Russell's flying tea pot and were to go knocking on doors trying to convert people to my way of thinking just because I had 'faith' but no independent evidence what would you think of me? The fact that (many) people believe something doesn't me it's true! In any event all faiths are atheists of other religions, I just go one better!

Those accusing non-believers of bigotry should take a closer look at the dictionary themselves. Being anti-religion does not equate to being anti-religious people. There is a major distinction. To make it clearer to the hard of understanding, I am anti-religion, while noting clear differences in the effect of monotheistic religions, to, say, deist or pantheist worldviews. At the same time, I have some great and close Christian/Muslim friends.

This was a quote

I've looked up the definition of 'bigot' it means intolerance of other people's ideas. I tolerate religious nut cases, just think they are daft. But please let them tolerate me and leave me alone please. To my mind, those who try to convert are the bigots as they KNOW they have the only truth and are often intolerant of other peoples beliefs, but enough said.

Anyone who can believe that god dictated to a 19th Century man on gold tablets deserves to be called a moron.

This is where people here straddle on religious bigotry. Just because someone believes something that you do not believe does not make them a moron. If that were the case then the entire world becomes moronic, which it seems to be some days, but not because of beliefs. Look, I am an a-theist, I don't believe in any invisible man in the sky. But most of my friends do not share my thoughts as they believe in some sort of theistic deity associated with one myth or another, and the last thing I would call these people are morons. On the contrary, they are for the most part good, caring people, especially the Mormons I have met.

to believe in the absurd is moronic

The ever-present, ever-strong, ThaiVisa anti-religion bigots out in full-force again!

These threads are so pitiful, old and overdone.

I don't understand why being anti religious is bigotry Please explain.

You might wish to consult a dictionary then

Beat me to it. . . .

Seems to me it's simply asking for evidence of unproved assertions. That seems to upset people of faith. don't understand why it should.

I think we should start an Atheist door to door campaign! We should all wear white shirts ,ties and black trousers to confuse the morons out there! Let's preach humanity, without the rest of the stuff.

Good idea. What sort of atheism? On similar notes as in the USSR, Khmer Rouge in Cambodia? Enver Hoxha's worlds first Atheist state, Albania?

Very humble and stellar attitude to start your "humanity" campaign by referring to the public, as morons.

Atheism is an ABSENCE of belief in supernatural powers. It does not provide an alternative,the burden of proof lies with those who assert the presence of a supernatural power. I can assert the presence of a flying teapot, just as Bertrand Russel did. Prove me wrong! In the examples you gave, religion was replaced by an alternative, just as in North Korea today they are deifying the last dictator. I did not refer to the public as morons, simply a ( bad) joke on mormonsim, which I think had already been made. Anyone who can believe that god dictated to a 19th Century man on gold tablets deserves to be called a moron.

BTW my son loves Mickey Mouse and Santa. As yet his milk teeth are still intact so the tooth fairy is something to look forward to!

Hahahah, I was already worried that someone would catch on to that.. Kids only start changing their teeth aged 6-7 or so.

( "I would save your teeth, honey, and change them all in when there is a more favourable exchange rate." )

I do understand now though why there the need for a tooth fairy; losing teeth for a 6 year old is very troubling. If you can turn that into a good thing AND give them something to look forward to then it all becomes easier, so enter the tooth fairy. Similar concept actually to how adults deal with troubling or disturbing facts of life.

When you bring up a child, conveying information with parental authority - such as passing on your Christianity - is a form of indoctrination that is hard to shake off in later years. We are programmed, as infants, to respect and believe our parents - and this programming is vital for survival. If your dad tells you to look both ways before crossing the road, and you are not inclined to believe him, then your chances of a long life are reduced considerably.

So I agree with Winnie that religious indoctrination is wrong, especially from early childhood. Giving kids the option to choose is significantly reduced by bringing them up within the confined belief structures of one religion or other. It takes a strong will to shake off such programming, no matter how ridiculous the belief system. This has been demonstrated over and over again, in studies.

Right.. though developing that strong will is pretty much a goal in itself for me as a parent. And consider that bringing them up completely atheist is also very confining, not to mention troubling for kids because there are few comforting answers in atheism. And it even makes it more likely for kids to then challenge that and turn to some relation as they get older. So a little religion keeps people sane, that's what it's for. I'm okay with using it as such for children, just like using the tooth fairy to turn a troubling experience into a good one. Just don't overdo it, to the point where it interferes with daily life.

I mean, what do atheists do when a kid's dog gets run over by a truck.. put them on Prozac? "He's in doggie heaven now, it's a better place." Done.

But you know it;'s a lie. So why lie?

Right.. though developing that strong will is pretty much a goal in itself for me as a parent. And consider that bringing them up completely atheist is also very confining, not to mention troubling for kids because there are few comforting answers in atheism. And it even makes it more likely for kids to then challenge that and turn to some relation as they get older. So a little religion keeps people sane, that's what it's for. I'm okay with using it as such for children, just like using the tooth fairy to turn a troubling experience into a good one. Just don't overdo it, to the point where it interferes with daily life.

Mind you atheism claims to provide no answers - it's simply a lack of belief in god(s), rather than a belief in a lack of god(s). That definition is accepted by a majority of 'thinking' atheists, and it's one Dawkins subscribes to.

I made a lot of effort to introduce my kids to all manner of religions - and encouraged them from an early age to think about all the different beliefs and claims. I took them to Muslim, Orthodox Xian, Buddhist and mainstream Xian religious ceremonies, among others. If they made/make categorical statements about the nonexistence of deities, I dispute and argue this with them too. It's all about helping their critical thinking faculties to develop.

I agree bringing kids up to believe in the wholesale 'wrongness' of religion is not helpful, but that is not what atheism is about. But when the JWs come knocking on the door now, mine are well equipped for the debate. I hope I've taught them to respect the views of others too, no matter how apparently foolish they might be.

Fortunately in Europe, as opposed to the US, kids who are brought up to doubt (Voltaire or someone wrote "doubt is uncomfortable, but certainty is ridiculous"), even if they do turn to other relatives (not my experience, with four kids, three between 16 and 23), are more likely to find an infidel among their relations than a believer!

So Winnie, you think that telling your kids something that is a fable is OK because one day you will tell them the truth?

Would you equally find it arrogant of Thai Buddhists to visit European countries or the US to set up temples and places of worship, who might or might not disturb local believes? Does a shiny gold temple in middle of Sweden or Swiss perhaps "anger" and show "act of arrogance" towards entrenched believes, let alone the esthetics and established architecture of the local communities?

By the way.... the countries mentioned above have large Thai temples, with good number of worshipers and you won't find much in the news of people fretting about it.

But they don't go round knocking on doors, they wait for people to come to them A big difference