thaibeachlovers

Perception driven by gun manufacturers propaganda is in stark contrast to the reality of a home being safer with a gun in it.

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

• 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.

• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

I am sure Pierson and Trump will perpetuate that myth as there are votes in it. The cartridge necklace was an intentional visual prop to tag the right wing gun toting ideologues. Pierson didn't come down in the last shower she knows precisely how to tap into the racist, bigoted and racist extreme far right.

It is absolutely crucial that Trump and Pierson stay well away from real political and economic issues facing the US. That is when they fall flat on their face. Income inequality, the most expensive health care system in the world, a dysfunctional education system, spending on military wars, people working longer hours for less money, Corporate America running Congress, below the poverty line minimum wage, Corporate America tax evasion, Clean Energy investment, Taxation reform with higher taxes on the wealthy and Corporate America paying their fair share of the tax burden, sensible gun control.

Oh and 'when seconds count' you are more likely to shoot yourself or be shot.

This is an election, not a debate. 63% of Americans believe they are safer with a gun in the house and they vote. Only 30% think it's more dangerous. As the world gets more dangerous, they want guns even more. Gun and ammo sale in the US are off the charts and stores and manufacturers can't keep up with demand. There's been a shortage of those things in stores ever since "The best gun salesman the US has ever had^TM" took office as POTUS 7 years ago.

That 63% can swing an election as Obama takes after gun owners in another thread.

The rest of your bullshit is off topic. It's an election by the voters and that necklace is great lib bait.

Cheers.

Exactly my point. When it comes to the real life issues right wingers run from the debate. When it comes to the reality of gun ownership 63% of Americans have no clue. The bullet casing necklace isn't something progressive and liberal thinking people on the left would react too. Left Wing people tend to be more educated. Gun toten far right wingers, sure.

Yeah sure. namby pamby left wingers have no clue about guns.

On the other hand, non namby pamby left wingers do have a clue about guns- they probably own one or more and are prepared to use it if they have to for defence of life and home.

"Use of automated phone surveys is common in polling during political campaigns, where it is frequently referred to as robo-polling. It is a low cost and quick way of generating data but it has been criticized because of this. Mike O'Neil of O'Neil Associates Public Opinion Research called this method "cheap and untrustworthy" and news organizations such as CNN, the Associated Press, the New York Times, the Wall street Journal and the Washington Post will not use results from automated polls.[5]" from Wiki. Misleading poll. Trump may win the clown bus, batshit crazy people nomination but he will never win the general election. Bernie Sanders is even farther in the lead against Trump than neocon/neoliberal tool of Wall Street criminals and banksters, Hillary.

Bernie Sanders

Elect him, and the people that scream the loudest will be the people that elected him. Just how much tax does he want to take?

Oh, dear. Sorry, but you are wrong again. The subject being discussed is whether Pattaya is dead. The number of farang tourists is just one aspect of the discussion.

See my previous reply to Don Mega.

Of course it's about farang tourists. Pattaya is chock a block with THAIS, so how could it really be dead, unless lamenting the lack of FARANGS.

Even if every farang vanished tomorrow, Pattaya would not be dead, it would just be different.

The rich don't come here??

Who drives all the Porsche's, big Bens and Bimmer's then and there are quite many +8000baht per night hotels here.

We were out riding the scooter this afternoon, Pattaya beach road was packed, real packed and the same on Jomtien.

Loads of people on the beach, perhaps app 65-75% Thais.

Looking forward to Monday the 4th Jan 2016, nice and quiet again and the schools opens again.

Who drives all the Porsche's, big Bens and Bimmer's then

The Thais do. Plenty of rich Thais in Bkk. But this thread is about farang tourists to Pattaya. Farang tourists don't drive cars in Pattaya.

As you note, most of the people on the beach are Thais- it's always been so. Farang tourists don't go to Pattaya for the beach. If they want to swim they go to Jomptien or Koh Larn.

Beach Rd is packed because it has a bottleneck at Walking St and too many baht buses- it has always been so.

Jomptien is packed because all the people from Pattaya are going there for the beach

and there are quite many +8000baht per night hotels here.

Actually very few, the Hilton and ...........................?

Mostly it's resorts that are full of people on package tours.

where in the OP is it mentioned this thread is only about "farang tourists" ?

Oh dear, oh deary me 5555555555555555

From the OP "only a few bars seem to have a few customers this year, the rest of the bars are empty."

How many of those THAI visitors do you see in the barbeers? I'll give you a hint in case you aren't actually in Pattaya- NONE, ZERO, NADA.

Of course this thread is about lack of FARANG visitors. Anybody ever actually been to Pattaya knows it is FULL of THAIS, especially at weekends. So the OP isn't really saying Pattaya is dead, but he is saying there are not many farangs propping up the bars.

Well if it is no longer paradise for sex tourists and sexpats (or mongers as one sexpat calls them) then that is a bonus for most of us. Pattaya will always have a risqué side to it but it doesn't have to be over the top! You only have to look around you at this time of the year to see the types of undesirables that places like Pattaya and Patong attracts. It's why I much prefer to be up north over Christmas/New Year.

For the life of me I fail to understand why the faux righteous continue to go to Pattaya, then complain that it has naughty bits. It has been "naughty" for longer than they have known that Thailand exists, but still they come and them moan, moan, moan about it. Why don't they PO to Hua Hin or some other place without the elements they don't like? No, like a bunch of Mary Whitehouses they just have to live there and constantly be offended,

Truly, truly sad people.

While they have ruined Pattaya as a monger's paradise, banishing the bars to dangerous Buakhao....

Buakhao isnt dangerous, its just a grotty little street full of low rent bingo players whose only upside to life is on viagra.

Of course it's dangerous. There are NO pavements and you have to walk in the street while speed crazed idiots race past. Nearly been maimed/ killed by stupid drivers several times.

No one is asking you to go there, but you seem intent on being offended by it.

I checked the electrical counters in several condos, very few are running.

this let me think that many condos are dead empty.

I don't look at the lights , I look at how many people plugged their fridge. many people from Bangkok came for new years just for the beach, in 3 days, this place will be empty with lot of empty condo for sale.

don't buy, people telling you to buy are working in the real estate. go get a walk at these buildings, they are all empty. they have lied to us. they inflate the price telling you Pattaya is a good place to invest, in fact this place is becoming a ghost town

IMO the whole "Pattaya is the place" is city hall BS. They push that agenda to get mugs to buy property <deleted> so they can get rich. In a sane world, they would have built Central/ Hilton etc in Jomptien and made that into a real first class tourist resort. It has all the required elements of a great beach, great view, plenty of space ( back then ) to lay out a proper infrastructure and could have been excellent for the richer elements to hang out with naughty monger's paradise over the hill. Instead, they try to change the pig's ear of Pattaya into the proverbial silk purse. Fail, fail, fail. Pattaya can never become what they want without demolishing the entire thing and starting again.

While they have ruined Pattaya as a monger's paradise, banishing the bars to dangerous Buakhao, they will never make it into the upmarket international destination they desire. Lose lose. Now the mongers are not coming and the rich tourists never came and never will, so we get threads about Pattaya is dead all the time now.

You've been in LOS for 22 years and you don't know how it works yet!!!!!!

New topic on world news about the Rouble falling even further. Hopefully this will mean even less Russians in Pattaya and the collapse of the condo market. Be great if they had to demolish the atrocity at Bali Hi because no one is going to buy any condos in it anymore.

Another ventured: “Of course, it is harder for those travelling to Europe, but for most people it doesn’t matter if the exchange rate grows or not.”

Methinks this person doesn't really understand the dynamics of exchange rates.

Many countries are having problems right now due to low oil prices. Thanks to Saudi Arabia.

Not mine that imports almost all of it's oil. Hurrah and hope it goes to $10 a barrel. THAI put up it's prices because of high oil prices- are they dropping prices now?

I'd cheer that Russia is in the doodoo except that powerful countries like Russia when they are desperate usually do something not nice to other countries.

Just propaganda BS. The Iranians gave the US sufficient warning for them not to continue if they wanted to. 1500 yards isn't even close.

If they don't want to go into harm's way, they shouldn't be calling themselves a "navy".

However, it does point out the flaw in US naval strategy, in that carriers are only useful against an enemy that can't fire back. For those that can, carriers are big fat targets.

Kudos to her for sticking it in the eye of all those gun control nutters, though I do hope they have been made safe.

I suggest to you the internal systemic discrimination against non-Malays is of far more importance than government rhetoric aimed at Jews.

We can do with less of the 'suggestions' to help contributors fit inconvenient events into their pet narrative. The internal discrimination and anti-semitism espoused by UMNO is part of the same Islamist ideology and not an either/or which some wish to peddle.

True, though the furor over the Israeli sports team is a storm in a tea cup in comparison to the suppression of non indigenous Malays' rights.

Furor????? The only place I've heard about it is on TV. Probably a non event to most of the world.

Umm. He didn't say there were a lot of FAMOUS people here, Thaibeachlovers. He said there were plenty or RICH people here--and he's right. And, both farang and Asian. Get out and look around. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, Mini Coopers, and other luxury brands on the road. The most expensive 2 bedroom corner condos at my condo project sold out first. The high end condo projects in good locations are mostly doing well--with rich people buying. I was at The Palm condo sales office the other day and there are only about a dozen condos left for sale there out of 400+ units.

You posted that while I was writing a reply, but I could just about cut and paste the same to you. This thread ISN'T about THAIS, it's about FARANG tourists.

THAIS drive cars in Pattaya, NOT farang tourists, and this thread isn't about farang EXPATS either- they drive cars in Pattaya, but not high end cars- probably utes. Farang tourists don't buy condos for their two week holiday in the sun either.

How many "rich" people do you see pulling up outside their favourite Beach Rd Gogo in their Porche, 5555555555555? Fancy getting a temporary guest into a Hilton room, LOL.

I think the following is happening (but can not be sure, of course).

Thais prefer Hua Hin as their weekend getaway, but because hotels and real estate is getting more expensive there (traffic is crappy too) they are now migrating to their least favorite place.

Rest assured that in next several years sex tourism will further go down as Pattaya becomes a more family oriented destination thanks to Chinese and Thais. Think of Las Vegas.

The only thing that will stop the mongers, is if financial problems back home make them too poor, or the government shuts down all the barbeers in Thailand, and what's the chance of that?

Sure, the bars are being relocated towards Sukhumvit, but I can't see Pattaya becoming a pitiful as Hua Hin. The mongers will follow the bars, so the cheap hotels on Beach/ 2nd will face problems. No doubt they will be replaced by expensive hotels, as has been happening already, but who will be staying in them, I wonder? There are many far superior beach destinations in LOS than Pattaya, and the rich don't come anyway.

The rich don't come here??

Who drives all the Porsche's, big Bens and Bimmer's then and there are quite many +8000baht per night hotels here.

We were out riding the scooter this afternoon, Pattaya beach road was packed, real packed and the same on Jomtien.

Loads of people on the beach, perhaps app 65-75% Thais.

Looking forward to Monday the 4th Jan 2016, nice and quiet again and the schools opens again.

Who drives all the Porsche's, big Bens and Bimmer's then

The Thais do. Plenty of rich Thais in Bkk. But this thread is about farang tourists to Pattaya. Farang tourists don't drive cars in Pattaya.

As you note, most of the people on the beach are Thais- it's always been so. Farang tourists don't go to Pattaya for the beach. If they want to swim they go to Jomptien or Koh Larn.

Beach Rd is packed because it has a bottleneck at Walking St and too many baht buses- it has always been so.

Jomptien is packed because all the people from Pattaya are going there for the beach

and there are quite many +8000baht per night hotels here.

Actually very few, the Hilton and ...........................?

Mostly it's resorts that are full of people on package tours.

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

where in Pattaya are you, in a hole somewhere. The last 5 nights, every bar I have stepped into along soi bakaow and beach road have been packed. Even in late afternoon, the bars are full. I dont know where this poster is coming from, but empty is not the issue. maybe he is on walking street, There I have no clus as I dont go there. But all bars along beach road, soi diana, bakaow are jam packed.

Beach Rd, LOL. The numbers of barbeers on Beach is low now, compared to 20 years or even 10 years ago. It wouldn't take many to fill all them up. Buakhao does well because that's where the expats go now.

To say the barbeer business is doing well, you'd have to check out the ones up past Dolphin roundabout on Naklua Rd, the ones on Soi 1 and opposite, plus all the little ones down all the long sois to Beach Rd. Did you start at the north end of Beach or just from Central- there's quite a few small ones north of Central Rd, then all the barbeers on Second Rd from Big C to Central Rd and on down 2nd Rd, not forgetting the complexes that go back between 2nd Rd and Buakhao. Then there's Boystown and the sois next to it, Soi Post Office and Yamato- oops, forgot Soi 6, 7 and 8. Then did you go on the sois off Walking Street to all those ones and down to Sunee Plaza?

The barbeers on Beach and Buakhao are just a very small part of the whole.

Not really much of an answer, Chivas. By your reckoning Pattaya is dying because of a 'lack of a certain type of tourist which will go unnamed'. Well, the 'unnamed' are being supplemented by other tourists. So, Pattaya really isn't dying. And, anyway, the 'unnamed' still seem to be going fairly strong and are not on life support just yet. I walk around a fair amount in central Pattaya and, even though I am not a bar person, I'll notice one bar will be packed and the one next to it will be nearly empty. A mystery to me but I suspect the strong will survive and the weak will fold and Pattaya will end up with the number of bars it needs for the 'unnamed'.

and those other tourists are?

Only ones I've seen are the Chinese, and they stay in Chinese hotels, eat in those hotels, travel on company tour buses and buy nothing except on their bus expedition to Mike's.

Don't expect the Chinese to rescue the barbers, or the eastern Euros. As for rich people, LOL. They wouldn't touch Pattaya with a very long pole. I knew a Dr that holidayed in LOS. The idea of staying in a place like Pattaya would have horrified him. If they come to LOS at all, it's to the 5* resorts in Phuket etc.

Plenty of rich people in Pattaya, notwithstanding your extensive research with 'I knew a Dr.'

Oh, that's all right then. No doubt you were having a chat with David Beckham down a Soi 8 bar last night, and is that Mick Jagger in the next room to you? Please say hi to Ivana Trump when you see her at the yoga later.

I think the following is happening (but can not be sure, of course).

Thais prefer Hua Hin as their weekend getaway, but because hotels and real estate is getting more expensive there (traffic is crappy too) they are now migrating to their least favorite place.

Rest assured that in next several years sex tourism will further go down as Pattaya becomes a more family oriented destination thanks to Chinese and Thais. Think of Las Vegas.

The only thing that will stop the mongers, is if financial problems back home make them too poor, or the government shuts down all the barbeers in Thailand, and what's the chance of that?

Sure, the bars are being relocated towards Sukhumvit, but I can't see Pattaya becoming a pitiful as Hua Hin. The mongers will follow the bars, so the cheap hotels on Beach/ 2nd will face problems. No doubt they will be replaced by expensive hotels, as has been happening already, but who will be staying in them, I wonder? There are many far superior beach destinations in LOS than Pattaya, and the rich don't come anyway.

Stopped at the final hurdle

When they should have been stopped at the first hurdle, about a million ago. Still better late than never, the Euro are finally realising they have willingly unleashed a huge and unsustainable problem onto their countries, and are doing something about it.

I wonder what will happen to the illegal economic migrants trapped in Russia. Somehow I don't think the Russians will be as welcoming as Sweden, and I doubt any speak Russian.

Phenomenal people skills?

Oh my Buddha, "you're fired" does not constitute a "people skill."

Trump has plateaued in the polls. There is no upside for him. He's alienated everyone but the racist, undereducated wingnuts. This is the guy that ran with the birther nonsense long after it was disproven. He appeals to the lemmings that still believe that bullshit. He may be the GOP nominee but as a general election candidate he's DOA.

It's far more likely, he'll lose a few primaries, declare victory, take his ball and go home.

I predict he's out by April 1st. Anyone else want in on the pool?

The political term for his situation is "low ceiling high floor"

You are right his mouth got him thus far, but it has made him unelectable. Hillary's greatest hope is that he get's the nomination. Even I would have to hold my nose and vote for her, assuming ofcourse that she also gets the nomination

Here's hopping that neither of them wins and we have a real choice.

So you'd vote for a proven LIAR, someone that allowed an ambassador to be murdered, and that no one really likes for herself, just so you didn't have to vote for Trump?

Given that millions will also vote for her if she's the nominee, it shows how sick politics is in the US. Is there no one wanting to run for president that is a statesman rather than a loony tune?

Given that my country is also run by unfortunate people, I think "democracy" is in danger of being superseded by a more dictatorial method of government, simply because people have had enough of the BS.

" I think "democracy" is in danger of being superseded by a more dictatorial method of government, simply because people have had enough of the BS.."

So let me understand this, People had enough of BS ad they support the King of BS???

I will agree with you on one point, which explains Trump, some people had enough BS and are now grasping at straws,

Trump is the danger you describe above.

So let me understand this, you think democracy is under threat and you want to defend democracy by supporting a man who, want's to exclude people from entering the country because of their by religion? praised Putin and his methods?

​Have you thought this through?

Let me make one more point. Putin's only Concern is Rusia, his endorsement for Trump is not because he wants a strong opponent for Russia, His endorsement of Trump is because he wants a clown for an opponent.

Think about it.

Please STOP repeating lies about what Trump said regarding Muslims going to the States. He said stop them going till they can be screened, vetted, whatever, properly. Nothing about banning them forever.

You are just contributing to the hysteria about Trump. Has he ever said he wants to be a dictator or serve more than 2 terms?

Your hero Obama wants to ban Trump from standing- that from a man that swore to uphold the constitution. Democracy???????

Nothing wrong in recognising that Putin has been great for Russia.

Trump wants to be great for America, but seems many don't want America to be great- they'd rather elect a proven liar and incompetent than someone that can actually build things.

People had enough of BS ad they support the King of BS???

They know that HRC et al are more full of BS than Trump, so they support the one most likely to get things done. Yes he's bombastic and says things that people don't like, but he builds things, unlike HRC that just tells lies and has done sweet FA. Proven track record- HRC in State achieved nothing, except getting an ambassador killed, Trump achieves lots.

BTW I don't think "democracy" is under threat- I think there is no such thing in our system of government. No one ever asked me what I want. The Swiss have the best system with their referendums.

What I believe is that people have had enough of the BS and are likely to turn to a strong man that will turn out badly for what vestige of freedom we still have ( which is minimal ). That explains Putin, the man you apparently love to hate.

The op highlighted the fact that cars with larger engines are now subject to a higher rate of road tax not which poster has the largest engine capacity,

In my view the greek citizens along with previous governments have been their own enemy, if avoiding income tax or any other form of tax had been an olympic sport the greeks would would have won i gold every time without question, not only the current government but all previous have been unwilling to introduce any kind of system where income tax could be collected and seem reluctant to change,

Car ownership for the greeks compared to other european citizens is something quite new, as in many developing countries governments seen this as an easy form of revenue and played on on its citizens illogical craving to own a car regardless of cost, ( similar to thailand )

The greek government ignored the fact such import taxes were not allowed by european law and were only ever interested in the eu handouts with no intention to pay back, authorities could be very inventive in ways to collect revenue but most often not inline with agreements signed when joining,

For me it was never clear who would be liable to pay income tax even with a workable system as it was difficult to find anyone who really worked, the mystery for me was always how do they earn a living drinking coffee and smoking outside the cafe neon allday,

I spent 14 years building a house alone with my own hands, when all but finished a bill arrived from a government office named IKA, they were demanding 12000euro for the workers who did,nt build my house ,

Of course i made an appointment and explained there had been no workers, still they claimed i was liable for the health insurance, pension, and income tax for workers i had never seen or employed, their only arguement was...we are not interested in european law...you are in greece,

This tax has nothing to do with engine size but more to do with the governments failure to collect income tax and the greeks can hand their plates in and find another way to get to the cafe neon.

You were lucky to be able to build your house yourself ( did you pay the tax for non existent workers? ). In NZ, the ultimate nanny state, you can't build one yourself ( so houses are now at astronomical prices ). I wouldn't be surprised that in the near future you'll have to have a registered assistant to make sure you have a dump correctly. It seems the bureaucrats have gone mad and are regulating everything except crime.

No wonder I love LOS.

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You're barking up the wrong tree, yes, many cities and countries can do with out large engines or even cars at all, but than again you're opening the Pandora box of having the argument for many other consumer's products that the world can do with out... there's no end to what people can do if only they set their minds to it...

It is exactly the right tree to bark at, very loudly. Though the public hears very little of the argument, a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close. Unnecessary consumption driven by the pursuit of money has already degraded the world environment and it will get worse as the fight for dwindling natural resources will destabilize governments and increase major conflicts. Don't forget that it was intentional starvation of Germany after WWW I by the United States, France and GB that gave rise to the Nazi Party in the 1930's.

The is a need for another economic paradigm; one that is sustainable for everyone.

a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close

If they've only just worked that out they must be really dim. I've been aware of that as long as I can remember, and that was when there were 2 billion less people on the planet.

The only thing that will make a real difference is less people, but that ship has long ago sailed. Sadly, I think hard times lie ahead because some people in the west care only about themselves and their self gratification, consuming vast amounts of resources, while the poor in the rest of the world live in desperate situations.

Seems every time the price of oil goes up, and inventions come out to reduce the use of oil, the oil price drops and sustainable energy gets dropped again.

Makro is packed. Tesco South Sukhumvit was the busiest I've ever seen. Incredible. Traffic has been bad for several days on Sukhumvit.

Tourists don't shop at Makro.

If Makro is busy, more likely catering to the Bkk Thais coming for the holidays, or for the restaurants that cater to Chinese.

Tourists don't, as rule, drive cars anywhere. If traffic has been bad, it's those Bkk Thais again, plus Pattaya is pretty big now and has lots of local residents with cars.

Not really much of an answer, Chivas. By your reckoning Pattaya is dying because of a 'lack of a certain type of tourist which will go unnamed'. Well, the 'unnamed' are being supplemented by other tourists. So, Pattaya really isn't dying. And, anyway, the 'unnamed' still seem to be going fairly strong and are not on life support just yet. I walk around a fair amount in central Pattaya and, even though I am not a bar person, I'll notice one bar will be packed and the one next to it will be nearly empty. A mystery to me but I suspect the strong will survive and the weak will fold and Pattaya will end up with the number of bars it needs for the 'unnamed'.

and those other tourists are?

Only ones I've seen are the Chinese, and they stay in Chinese hotels, eat in those hotels, travel on company tour buses and buy nothing except on their bus expedition to Mike's.

Don't expect the Chinese to rescue the barbers, or the eastern Euros. As for rich people, LOL. They wouldn't touch Pattaya with a very long pole. I knew a Dr that holidayed in LOS. The idea of staying in a place like Pattaya would have horrified him. If they come to LOS at all, it's to the 5* resorts in Phuket etc.