thaibeachlovers

Don't bother with Bangkok Bank- "all full"

Wow, so many nasty replies, one of which is certainly breaching forum rules for personal insults.

If people don't like a subject, why do they bother replying? So easy, click onto some other post.

For those of us that do like to daydream:

IMPROVE THE WALKWAY

build a soundshell for concerts on the beach

halve the baht buses

put some traffic light controlled pedestrian crossings on the most congested roads

make second road two way

close Beach Rd from Central to South Rds after 6pm, and allow outdoor cafes to set up

build a tramway from Sri Racha, through Naklua to the end of Jomptien

move the bus station down next to Second Rd

build a cable car to Buddha Hill

move the TAT back into town where it'd be of some use

As said, I'm daydreaming

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<br />Just because Pattaya is growing, does not mean it is doing well. <br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Your definition of doing well doesn't jibe with economic reality. </font><br /><br />The crime rate is up, the roads are more congested than ever ( despite lack of tour buses ), income for the workers is obviously well down, infrastructure has not improved in 18 years,  Bali Hai pier is disintegrating<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Yawn. Pattaya has always been a mess. It's the corrupt, inefficient government that's allowed it the freedom to become a desirable holiday destination for tourists who appreciate its particular Third Wold charms. <br /><br />A larger local population and more tourists mean more crime in absolute numbers. I don't think you have any figures showing the rate has increased significantly over, say, Bangkok's rate. Anyway, most of the crime is Thai-on-Thai, in the wee hours. <br /><br />And it's utter nonsense to say the infrastructure hasn't improved: the roads are greatly improved, new roads have been built (3rd rd. an outstanding example, and the new road from the airport), cables have been buried (three times or so), lights are up, stop lights are much better, the walkway etc. was built.<br /><br />You don't have a point here.</font><br /><br />More and more new shops, hotels and bars open without customers,<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Oh, the fallacy of the "downward spiral." You been listening to too much hysteria. It's the low season, there've been some political problems, and a bit of recession. Nothing that Pattaya hasn't seen many times before--and gone right through it to become bigger and better than ever. Wish I had a baht for every time I've heard that "last nail in the coffin" crap. <br /></font><br />scams continue galore, increasing numbers of desperate hawkers try to sell pointless trinkets to an ever poorer and diminishing tourist population, and the baht bus catastrophe continues unrelentingly.<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Hysteria aside, so what else is new? Way it's always been, pal. You want a nanny state w/ all under control, you know where to go. And buzz off w/ this judgment what people ought to buy. Somebody has always <i>liked </i>those pointless (to you) trinkets, and if they want them, what's it to you, Mr. Central Economic Planner? Seems you don't understand economic freedom at all. <br /> </font><br />As for the Beach Rd walkway- what should be the jewel in Pattaya's crown is a crumbling, disgusting wreck, full of holes and broken lamp bases.<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Should be--to whom? Lots of people don't give a shit about that walkway, me included. I never walk on it. You should have seen it before they tried to beautify it. Ain't no sidewalk in Thailand fit for walking. It's THAILAND--part of its charm is its chaos. <br /></font><br />Not everyone thinks change is in of itself a "good" thing.<br /><font color="#0000FF"><br />Nobody ever said that, so now you're just setting up a straw man. I ain't bitin'. </font><br /><br />Thailand is a large country, with many beaches to ruin, so why try to change Pattaya? <br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">You mean, leave the crappy beach as it's been for decades? OK, why not? Most people don't care to swim here anyway. </font><br /><br />Jomptien has a much better beach, better roads, and more space to put up all the malls you like. If City Hall was competent enough to put in a proper transportation system between Pattaya and Jomptien, the latter could become the place for all the modernist change artists, and Pattaya could remain a place for mongers. Win win.<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">You seem stuck in some sort of childishly simple either-or binary world. Actually, both Pattaya and Jomtien can accommodate upscale development AND mongers, as Pattaya does right now. Note those fine condos in Jomtien. Go analog, pal. <br /></font><br />No sane person thinks the only alternatives are madman capitalism constantly tearing down the old, only to put up more and more garish awful monstrocities over the remains of once beautiful beaches, and North Korea.<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Economic freedom allows entrepreneurs to meet changing needs. Pattaya has changed to meet the needs of a much more diverse and larger group of tourists and brought thousands of jobs to poor Thais who otherwise wouldn't have them. So far, most tourists haven't cared that much about the beaches. If they really did, then the <i>government </i>, whose responsibility it is, might stop pumping waste out there. In fact, it has made some attempts to do a better job about that. But, TIT. You want pristine beaches, Pattaya's not your spot, hasn't been for decades.</font> <br /><br />If someone tried to build something that destroyed New York's Central park there would be an uproar, Well, Pattaya as it was in the 90's had a charm all of it's own ( to those that had eyes to see ) that deserved to be preserved,<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">It did have its charm (even w/ the dirty beaches) but "deserved" is merely a selfish opinion: why should all those Thais who now have jobs and support their families w/ those jobs, and all those Thai and foreign tourists who <i>enjoy </i>the new developments, be denied so's you can drink cheap beer while sitting in a thatched hut on Pattaya Beach listening to some ho's forced laughter at your jokes? That time has passed, pal. Live with it. </font><br /><br />but, of course, money comes before mongers,<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Thousands of jobs for Thais and a better local Thai economy come before mongers' cheap beer in a thatched hut near the beach w/ some ho, yes. Somebody has got to make some money, yes. <br /><br />The mongers peaked out in what they could sustain. Some, then, will lose the sea view but surely will survive. <br /></font><br />or at least that what's they think till the monger's money stops, and there's thousands of low paid workers unemployed, and wearing red shirts in the streets.<br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">Just a little self-serving fantasy. Pattaya has provided an incredible number of new jobs since the 80s and continues to accommodate the mongers extremely well--though now the mongers might have to pay a bit more for a sea view. If they need it, they will. But I don't think sea view is their main priority, do you? Lots of mongers are perfectly content to stay over there around Soi Buakaew. And Crazy Dave's, a newer business, usually has customers.  <br /></font><br />

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Not on topic, of course, but if I can reply to some of the above:

I fail to see what economic reality you are referring to- thousands of unfilled rooms in hideous concrete monstrosities, hundreds of poor people struggling to survive. Not my idea of economic prosperity.

the crime rate increased significantly after Purachai's "crackdown" and new visa regs reduced the number of mongers, but the population hadn't increased at all at that time.

How can you say the infrastructure is better? It looks exactly the same as 18 years ago. I'm referring to the area that most tourists inhabit.

Third Rd is a planning cock up from the beginning. They built it in a completely unbuilt area, but only made 4 lanes when they could have made 6 or even 8. A lost opportunity. They didn't even have to pave it all at the time if cost was an issue, but now it's just another traffic catastrophe.

Perhaps they buried a few wires, but it hasn't improved anything obvious.

I haven't noticed any new stop lights on Naklua, North, Central, South, Beach or Second Rds.

My comments re spoiling once beautiful beaches refers more to other beaches in LOS, as Pattaya hasn't ever had a beautiful beach as long as I've been coming here. It's more to illustrate the Thai developers disregard for any cultural value over monetary gain.

You seem to support the view that a few jobs being lackies for "rich" farangs is a worthwhile occupation choice. Or how about "do you want fries with that" for a career option?

Do you really think the reduced numbers are a "normal" low season situation? Where are all the Chinese tour buses outside Mikes?

Crazy Daves might have customers, but not many of the others do.

You don't get my point about developing both Pattaya and Jomptien. With a decent transport system it wouldn't be necessary, and why should Pattaya be developed other than for greed. It made billions as it was, but developers wanted more and more. I'm not saying there can't be development, but there's plenty of other places to do so without destroying Pattaya. IMO, if the mongers hadn't made Pattaya popular, the developers wouldn't have moved in to take advantage.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the value of their currency for most tourists has fallen almost 50% since mid noughties, and massive bad publicity is keeping families, Asians and richer people away. So who's going to be supporting all those "new jobs". Have a look at all the empty shops around Pattaya.

If tourists have less money than they expected, how many are going to have foot massages, fish spas or buy wooden motorcycles from hawkers?

If the walkway isn't the "Jewel in the Crown", what is? Hard Rock Hotel, LOL.

Your comments about the sewage indicate just how little you know of Pattaya's past.

As for the mongers, so long as there're bars and women, they will come, unlike the trendies, who vanish at the first sight of trouble. So who're the more valuable to Pattaya's future?

<br />I find it funny when people who choose to move to a foreign country bitch about all the foreigners in their own country...<br />

Why? Most of the posters on TV are not looking to become citizens of LOS, and certainly don't intend to actively ( despite any daydreaming they might do on the forums )try to change LOS to some version of wherever they came from. This is unlike most of the "foreigners in their own country" that usually want to stay permanently, bring in all their elderly relatives for "free" medical treatment on the taxpayer, don't want to integrate and often try to introduce alien laws to suit their own beliefs.

I live in LOS because I love it here, but eventually, I'll have to go "home", because they won't pay me my pension ( for which I paid taxes all my life ) outside the country.

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<br />hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...<br />

<br /><br /><br />Yep. The erosion of individual liberties to the point where we're going to join China and Lybia and Myanmar and <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif" /> and bring in  blanket Internet censorship that will be about as effective as <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif" /> - and also the endless march towards the Grey Middle which has been going on for awhile now in Australia and even picking up steam; a world where excellence and innovation are stifled and discouraged in favour of conformity and mediocrity and god dam_n Socialism <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif" /><br /><br /><br />Apart from the overwhelming sense of Entitlement every lazy bum kid has, and our endless noose governments, I love Australia. <br /><br /><br /><br />

<br />At least in one's home country the laws are not subject to the whim of an old judge or nam cha to the police as to whether they take action, or not. Together with the added 'you are farang' and consequently they couldn't be bothered. You know pretty much where you stand in the West, very much not so here.

<br /><br /><br />wow. This is the accepted 'reality' that is pawned onto a gullible public - sure. But find yourself in the inners of that judicial beast in any Western country and you'll get a STARK wake-up call. A Queen's Counsel tends to hold his own against a Legal Aid reject. The vast majority of cases end up in acquittal. To get convicted of a crime in Australia is so unbelievably hard....you kind of have to be insanely unlucky and / or stupid. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.<br /><br /><br />

<br />Now, it has become the United States of *Freedom*.  Freedom for anyone to crash the borders and set up a narcotrafficking gang armed with more heavy duty weaponry than the National Guard.  Freedom for corporations, banksters, and businesses to loot, pillage, pollute, and destroy and then get the $35,000/year taxpayer to pay the looters' multi-million dollar bonuses.  Freedom to create some international job hiring bazaar on American soil, so as to destroy wages, elminate American jobs, and evade workplace safety standards.

<br /><br />Oh wow. <br /><br />1. Your 'narco' problem was created and continues to be facilitated by "The War [lolz] on Drugs" i.e. handing over the industry to the narcos. All gift-wrapped and that. What did anyone think was going to happen when the government refused to regulate and went down the road of Prohibition....again. Cause The Great Experiment was a great success the first time!<br /><br />2. Regulate you stifle. Don't regulate you have chaos. Obviously they didn't get the balance right. They're trying to fix it. It's complex stuff. <br /><br />3. Sigh. Protectionism. Solid. Put those walls up yo - 'protect' - 'your' - jobs. Cause locking out the world and rejecting FTAs in favour of tariffs and shunning globalisation....that's a solid line to pursue right there. Have you thought that plan through, you know, 20 yrs in advance even? Play it out in your mind. See where it takes you. Then please report back.... <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif" /><br />

Please note that's NOT my quote

Hmmm, there seems to be some problem with the "new" OS, as when I click on reply it's all messed up, and hard to read. Anyone else have that problem?

<br />Football along with tennis and golf are without doubt the most boring activities to watch. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif" /><br />

I AGREE.

One of my pleasures in life is being able to tell some sport mad so and so asking me as to the latest score in some game or other that I have no idea and couldn't care less, and watching their face as they go into shock and disbelief!

Unfortunately, BBC, Asia News, Aljazeera et al have decided that a game qualifies as news, hence the almost complete lack of anything newsworthy on the tv so called newschannels. Give me strength.

Luckily Fox doesn't think watching grown men play with a ball is of any particular significance compared to real events, or I'd have nowhere to go for my tv "fix". ( Please note that I only watch Fox for the entertainment value, as there is little "news" on it relevant to most of the world. )

<br />Fever.   Aside from some TV adverts haven't seen much of a fever.<br /><br />If North Korea can qualify, how come Thailand can't?<br />

While coming to use the internet ( 1330 ) saw a small grocery store packed with Thai men watching "footbawn". Definitely some "fever" here!

Incidentally, can someone please explain how so many workers are able to take time off to watch a game, and not just in Thailand. They can't all be unemployed, and surely they don't save up holidays ( do low skilled workers in LOS even get holidays ) to watch something live, that will be on tv later.

"In other words, I believe we can do something to stop the insane trajectory we are on."

Please let the rest of us know then??

By the time Thailand and the rest of the world reaches the critical mass and the rest of the hysteria you are preaching, we will all be well processed worm food!!!

Did anyone do anything to smooth your entry into this life, and what steps have you taken to ensure the same "mistakes" if that is what they are, will not be repeated?

You use far too much cliche words, "climate change" "xenophobia" "social engineering" - well here's one for you, PARANOIA, and i am not speaking about the rock classic from Deep Purple!!! - i am referring to you, please get some serious medical help before you miss the end of civilisation as you foretell!!! although i dont think we are pressed for time on that one!!

Not trying to be combative, but surely you, or your family members have children. Do they or their decendents not deserve a life too?

When overfishing of cod turns the Baltic Sea into an anaerobic algal bloom, or Lima has no water because the glaciers have vanished, will you still be saying it's all paranoia?

The earth will continue on for millions of years, but without homo sapiens, who will have joined the dinosaurs in extinction, but unlike them, could have done something to prevent it.

Now, back to the topic....... please.

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

At least in one's home country the laws are not subject to the whim of an old judge or nam cha to the police as to whether they take action, or not. Together with the added 'you are farang' and consequently they couldn't be bothered. You know pretty much where you stand in the West, very much not so here.

However, in my home country, if you are rich and/ or influential, you are able to get away with almost anything, and if you are poor, you are much more likely to end up in trouble. Hmmm, bit like Thailand.

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

You pretty much said what I would have, plus my "own country" is low income, high cost of living, and has been divided in the last 30 years into the "rich" class who don't give a toss for anything but themselves and their priviliged lifestyle, and the underclass of poor and disadvantaged, from whom are drawn a huge and growing gang culture, against which the police are as effective as a soggy newspaper. Anyone with ability is moving overseas, where they can at least earn a few bob, and eventually the country will disapear up it's own orifice.

However, if you have a lot of dollars to spare and enjoy the outdoors, it's probably one of the greatest countries in the world ( outside the cities and the political system ),

it is the global economy. And that is going downhill fast because the world we have created is grossly unsustainable...........for three reasons:

1) we did not act soon enough and with a sense of urgency to curb population growth (too many people are putting too much stress on the life systems of the planet with more to come)

2) we did nothing to move the economy away from dependency on fossil fuels (this is leading to climate change and eventually to social chaos on a scale we have never witnessed)

3) we promoted the globalization of the economy (something that has clearly failed).

This simplistic, brainwashed theory makes it obvious that you refuse to believe, in face of the evidence, that Pattaya is growing and doing pretty well because to admit it would be to contradict your anti-globalist, leftist political beliefs.

You can find your assumptions, hence your conclusions from them, shown wrong here (part 1 of 4):

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To this, we note that you don't like change in Pattaya since the 70s and 80s. Hence you wish it would not progress further.

Now then your apocalyptic prophecies (wishes, really) can be answered thus:

Will continue to grow? No doubt............more concrete coffins destined to become vacant coffins will continue to go up

And after their initial vacancies, become owned and occupied.

More malls destined to become vacant malls will go up

But against your wishes become popular and successful.

More bars destined to go under will go up

And even more will be successful enough.

More restaurants destined to go under will go up

But, sadly, defy your self-interested prophecy and become successful enough.

And more concrete coffins, malls, bars and restaurants that are here now will go under.

Did you forget you said this already? Or is this your peroration?

The fact is that it has already grown beyond its best years (70s and 80s).

Rather, beyond its other good years and has gotten even better--overall--as Ulysses noted.

And that growth has not been good. It is unsustainable, and it has already ruined the place.

And it has been good and quite sustainable (see your wrong political/economic assumptions). It's improved the place--overall.

But some people have no idea how good it used to be, so they have no reference point from which to assess whether it is better or worse now.

But others do, and most agree that on balance it's better. I love TukCom and Central Festival. I like walking on Walking Street w/o dodging cars and mad bikers, esp. idiot farangs showing off on rented choppers. I like all that new development around Soi Buakaew. Sometimes I'd prefer to go to Oasis Go-Go than all the way down to Walking Street. Third Road's got a lot of good new stuff, too--take Cherry's for example.

Others are locked into a growth mentality (all growth is good).

In fact, nobody's locked into such a mentality. Just a fantasy of yours.

Others are simply wanting to make a buck off of a real estate Titanic.

Good on 'em if they want to make a buck off real estate cycles. Real estate markets are just as cyclical as any other. You want to join a static socialist worker's paradise, North Korea & Cuba are waitin' fer ya.

I think, Tejas, most in this thread are tired of your Nostradamus posturings. Maybe you should just make yourself an End Of The World Is Nigh sign to carry and join Glitterman.

Just because Pattaya is growing, does not mean it is doing well.

The crime rate is up, the roads are more congested than ever ( despite lack of tour buses ), income for the workers is obviously well down, infrastructure has not improved in 18 years, Bali Hai pier is disintegrating, More and more new shops, hotels and bars open without customers, scams continue galore, increasing numbers of desperate hawkers try to sell pointless trinkets to an ever poorer and diminishing tourist population, and the baht bus catastrophe continues unrelentingly.

As for the Beach Rd walkway- what should be the jewel in Pattaya's crown is a crumbling, disgusting wreck, full of holes and broken lamp bases.

Not everyone thinks change is in of itself a "good" thing. Thailand is a large country, with many beaches to ruin, so why try to change Pattaya? Jomptien has a much better beach, better roads, and more space to put up all the malls you like. If City Hall was competent enough to put in a proper transportation system between Pattaya and Jomptien, the latter could become the place for all the modernist change artists, and Pattaya could remain a place for mongers. Win win.

No sane person thinks the only alternatives are madman capitalism constantly tearing down the old, only to put up more and more garish awful monstrocities over the remains of once beautiful beaches, and North Korea.

If someone tried to build something that destroyed New York's Central park there would be an uproar, Well, Pattaya as it was in the 90's had a charm all of it's own ( to those that had eyes to see ) that deserved to be preserved, but, of course, money comes before mongers, or at least that what's they think till the monger's money stops, and there's thousands of low paid workers unemployed, and wearing red shirts in the streets.

While it isn't specifically a "Thai" problem, as they seem to have a low population growth ( I never see Thais with very large families about ), you are right about population growth being the downfall of humanity. This is the "elephant in the room", as all these high powered meetings about "climate change" never admit as long as there is unrestricted population growth there is no hope of stopping it. Soon, there will be wars for access to fresh water, and hordes of poor immigrants fleeing their devestated homelands will, if not stopped, destroy our comfortable western way of life ( let's all have 3 cars and a giant tv in every room! ).

People should always remember that it isn't going to be the "end of the world", just the end of humans. The planet will survive quite nicely, thank you.

JR to Thaibeachlover (having problems with the new system here):

The point I was trying to make is that Thailand--and virtually all countries on the planet--has already gone way past a sustainable population level.

So, while it is good that Thailand's fertility rate is down, a population problem exists. And it will get worse (the population continues to grow).

I agree that climate change is a major problem (oopps here come the global warming isn't real Trolls again).........and there is not much hope of stopping it unless we radically reduce population levels (not just reduce population growth rates) and move away from our reliance on fossil fuels.

I agree that we are set for water wars.

I agree that we are set for mass migrations (unprecedented).

I agree that the earth does not need us

But we can't ask the people in the developed world to live like dogs.

They have a right to try to improve the quality of their lives.

To do that..........economic activity must increase (unfortunate reality)..........the only way to make that happen without destroying the planet is to move away from fossil fuel use.

There are other ways............but no need to discuss everything here.

It is interesting that some posters want me to carry a doom and gloom sign around...........in fact, I am presenting very positive solutions to our challenges.

In other words, I believe we can do something to stop the insane trajectory we are on.

Others, like the people who think I should carry around that sign, are clueless...........that can't even see THE PROBLEM.

The first step to solving any problem is recognizing that it exists.

Ignoring problems, like most Thais do, solves nothing...........now, apparently, most farangs are adopting the Thai way: hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

I do wish I had a franchise on rose colored glasses..........might make a fortune advertising on ThaiVisa.

Wow, we've really moved away from the Topic, but have to agree with you. However, I don't think there is any hope for humanity to change sufficiently to save itself. I'm just gratefull I have no children to suffer.

Now, to get back to the topic- to those that think business people know what they are doing-LOL. They are the reason why the earth is in deep doo, as they continue their relentless pursuit of riches. When wrongly located monstrocities such as Avenues and Central Festival destroyed a perfectly nice hotel and much loved bar beers, it was because the owners had got sucked into the really stupid idea that Pattaya was going to become the Monaco of Thailand, or some such tripe being purveyed by City Hall years ago.

As a result of that rubbish ( garbage in garbage out ), we now have a crappy beach and a broken walkway with a few flash resorts and hotels, and a Bangkok style shopping mall. I've yet to see the celebrity crowd arriving, and if they did, one stroll along Beach Road would have them fleeing in their private jets, back to Dubai or some other poncy ruined place where they can drive around in their stretch limos telling each other how brilliant they all are on their trendy ipads!

No doubt Central Festival's owners have deep pockets, but it's going to take more than a few Thai weekend shoppers to save it.

You are lucky that you are aware that you have a high blood pressure.The good news is that it is very easy to control nowadays,with a vast range of medications to return it to normal levels.

Obesity and alcohol consumption are two main predisposing factors towards hypertension,as is cigarette smoking.Your physician will no doubt advise you on these matters.

You did not want a lot of unnecessary tests,but as there are a number of medical conditions that can cause hypertension,you would be well advised to have blood tests to exclude these conditions{eg. diabetes,kidney disease,excessive steroids in the blood stream etc}.These tests are quite inexpensive.You will also need an ecg,although an exercise ecg is probably not essential.If yor pressure is really very high then an echocardioraphic examination of the heart could provide a lot of useful information.

It would be unethical on the part of a physician to just give you medication without some tests.

Also do not go into a pharmacy and ask for blood pressure tablets,or accept well intentioned advice from friends on the basis of something that worked for them.

It is also useful to self monitor your pressure with a reliable automatic blood pressure cuff,can be purchased for about 2000 baht at Boots.

High blood pressure is becoming endemic in the Western male nowadays,and I would not worry too much as stress only contributes to an increase in pressure.

My recommendation is not to try to be treated as cheaply as possible,for you will definitely receive substandard care.

If some TV contributors have recommendations based on their experience,then that would be the path to follow.

Good luck.

Thanks for your considered response, which will be of interest to many, I'm sure.

I paid 5000 at Boots as wanted the best ( I hope ) available BP cuff. It's only since the diastolic went over 100 regularly that I've become concerned enough to do something about it.

I'm overweight ( who isn't at my age ), but not morbidly obese, never smoked, haven't drunk alcohol for over 20 years, and had an active lifestyle till 7 weeks ago ( who can exercise in this heat ).

Don't have diabetes or excess cholesterol.

Best guess is a life with far too much stress.

Yes, the ECG sounds like a really good idea.

Thanks for all the contibutions. It's in situations like this that TV is so brilliant.

I'll probably go to Pattaya International for the initial consultation, and hope it's not too serious, or expensive. If the latter, I'll have to think about going "home" to get the benefit of a lifetime paying tax.

I reckon you need to be more specific.

Do you mean going to Walking Street to oggle girls/ ladyboys/ boys ( pick preference ), or to visit the bars/ GoGos there?

If the former, I could never get bored of that ( girls ), so long as have hormones.

If the latter, got bored of them after about 15 years.

Go see Dr.Mongkol. On the The hill going down into Jomtien, he is in the corner of the car park for the supermarket there. Worked in the USA before coming back here. Speaks perfect English so you can discuss with him.

Thanks for that.

Having worked in a female dominated occupation for the past 28 years I can see where that guy's coming from, LOL.

Probably not surprising I have high BP!

Anyway, aren't most farang guys in Pattaya because they had "problems" with women in their own countries? I certainly did.

First of all, you cannot cure high blood pressure. Once you are on medication, you are on it for the rest of your life. I have been on maintenance medication of about eight years now. The best medicine for me has been cozaar (25 mg/day) which I take along with a diuretic called dyazide (50 mg/day). You should confer with a doctor to find out what dosage you should take. It is also important to disclose whether there is a history of cardio-vascular problems in your family.

Doctors often prescribe 'beta-blockers' like atenolol which controls heart rate. This was the very first drug I took and I found that it made me extremely lethargic. If you start taking cozaar, you should not take viagra or cialis. This could cause a sudden drop in blood pressure and even death -- but you might have a smile on your face!

Yes, the problem with drugs are always the side effects. I had to stop taking Cialis when my BP went extremely high and I thought I was dying, Had chest pain for 2 days. Luckily the GF is understanding.

If I knew I'd go out with a smile, it might be worth it, but the idea of living after a severe stroke really terrifies me. Had to look after enough of them in hospital to know it's not what I want. Of course, it could happen anyway. Who thought life is fair!

Three things that help enormously, cut down on your intake of salt, exersise on a regular basis and drink only small lilited amounts of alcohol. There's loads of tips/tricks to manage high blood pressure on the internet but probably best first to make sure there is no underlying medical reason why your blood pressure is high. Perhaps consider getting a health check that includes a heart exam?

Thailand is one health hazard,the food ate in restaurants tastes as if it 's got a shovel full of salt added,small limited amount of alchol? ..what else to do in Thailand?.

I think heat is a major factor,the heart beats faster to circulate the blood to have a cooling effect,. Usually I'm 123 over 70,but was up to 153 the other day,no sex either

The TGF cooks for me ( I'm just the luckiest....... ) so I control what I eat, and I don't drink alcohol. Have stopped drinking Red Bull, so get tired now, and coffee's out too.

No sex. Might as well be dead!

Also be advised the few baht buses (which are just 4wd small pick up trucks) stop running at night or at least can be hard to find.

So if your sight seeing at one end of the island or other, start making your way back to where ever your staying by evening.

As posters have noted, most end up at White Sands by Jep's come night, as that is the only real entertainment venue, music, fire dancing, candle kites, etc.

You can rent ATV's, which is the best way to get around on the dirt track roads, what few there are.

Or, you can walk. It's a small island.

Koh Samet is definitely going downhill with a hill full of trash... and no place new to dump even more...

Officials inspect the main refuse dump on Koh Samet in Rayong Province, which has reached full capacity. The chief of Khao Laem Ya National Park, of which the tourist island is a part says that no more forest area can be earmarked for additional dumping.

The Nation, August 11, 2007

I stayed on Samet a few years ago, and considered it one of the worst ( after Hua Hin ) places I've been in Thailand. The entire island ( down to the half way point, as that was as far as I got before coming down with food poisoning ) was a rubbish dump. The park fee for farangs is just theft, as the authorities obviously don't spend money on the environment.

The village from the pier to the first beach is a decrepit collection of festering shacks.

The songtheaws are outrageously expensive.

The beaches are encroached by the usual horrible pesudo Thai restaurants, and if I remember correctly there are the pestilential jet skiis/ banana boats etc destroying any beach ambience.

I stayed at Sae Kaew ( ?spelling ) Villa, and don't recommend it for the rock hard mattress and cr*p service. All the places I enquired at were well overpriced for what they were offering.

Lastly, the piers at both ends of the boat journey were substandard and hazardous to limbs.

IMO, Krabi, Lanta and Phangan ( not including Hat Rin ) offer a far superior beach holiday.

Try Banglamung hospital,Naklua. State run hospital,go about 1 pm bit quicker then.Have to register tho,take passport

...and ask doc for precription if u do go there

Thanks jori.

I've been in and out since mid-eighties. I have bought and built in the area and have watched momentous changes almost every year.

Mid-eighties still dusty streets with the hippy brigade still in evidence and a lot of left over Asia hands from " Nam " ( well they all claimed to be ) and short term trippers from HK, Singapore and the like. In general a nice time, with locals and " workers" less hardened to the experience and everyone having a good time.

Early nineties brought ( sadly from my own country ) the hooligan brigade. Loud bare chested and violent. Locals first offended, and then cynical. Not a good time with the building boom spurred on by crooks from Europe as well as locals, with the infra-structure not addressed to keep pace with the rapid, unfounded expansion. Hence floods, droughts and a dumbing down of society which to my simple mind, was not pleasant. The crash came as a typhoon that destroyed the bubble and left unfinished lumps of concrete on almost every corner, but did not wash away all the dross.

Early 2000's optimism again. Talk of casinos, horse racing, and the arrival of Russian and Asian tourists by the bucketful. The crash, (this time self-generated) in the property market has thinned out the hoardes of Estate Agents that thronged every street, but surprisingly there is still a causious optimism for the future, if you talk to the sensible " older " Thai Pattaya families, who can see at least the start of proper development from City Hall and a realisation that when ( not if ) attitudes change about gambling, Pattaya is best placed to build a Thai " Macao " in the future.

Major Hotel chains and Thai business people do not build modern hotels and large shopping complexes if they feel " long term " the place is going to fail. Just like any stock exchange the small time investor always catches a cold. The bar owner ( singular ) will come and go, never really making any form of impact. What is telling is the slow " clearing " of the streets surrounding what will become the bar area ( the only major bar area ) in the future. Someone somewhere with a bigger picture view and more money than you or I, has a positive view on the future. Remember the hotels and shopping areas are not being built with Government hand-outs, they are being built with somebodies cash. The cynic will reply " Blah blah blah, rose tinted glasses no hope etc etc ". However, not all Thai businessmen are fools, far from it, and some of the smartest are quietly buying land and planning for a better future for the area. I for one hope they are right...............I like it here.

Actually, that was a pretty good analysis/overview of what happened. I do not, however, remember "hippie brigades" in Pattaya in the mid-80s. I do remember far more Americans.......but they did not seem like hippies to me.

You are certainly right about rich people having a vision about Pattaya's future........but rich people often make mistakes, just like the rest of us (a certain wanted terrorist living abroad).

Corporations that once seemed on top of the world make mistakes (e.g. GM)

Countries make mistakes (e.g., Greece).

The problem now is not just Thailand..........it is the global economy. And that is going downhill fast because the world we have created is grossly unsustainable...........for three reasons:

1) we did not act soon enough and with a sense of urgency to curb population growth (too many people are putting too much stress on the life systems of the planet with more to come)

2) we did nothing to move the economy away from dependency on fossil fuels (this is leading to climate change and eventually to social chaos on a scale we have never witnessed)

3) we promoted the globalization of the economy (something that has clearly failed).

The optimism on the part of the so-called "insiders or powerful people or rich" assumes everything will turn around and people will start spending big money again.

I would not bet on it............sure, there will be a turnaround, but that will be followed by an even deeper economic downturn if we do not address the three challenges listed above.

Maybe I am wrong.

While it isn't specifically a "Thai" problem, as they seem to have a low population growth ( I never see Thais with very large families about ), you are right about population growth being the downfall of humanity. This is the "elephant in the room", as all these high powered meetings about "climate change" never admit as long as there is unrestricted population growth there is no hope of stopping it. Soon, there will be wars for access to fresh water, and hordes of poor immigrants fleeing their devestated homelands will, if not stopped, destroy our comfortable western way of life ( let's all have 3 cars and a giant tv in every room! ).

People should always remember that it isn't going to be the "end of the world", just the end of humans. The planet will survive quite nicely, thank you.

But some people have no idea how good it used to be, so they have no reference point from which to assess whether it is better or worse now.

I wasn't here in 1880, but Pattaya is certainly cleaner and less seedy than it was 20 years ago and there is much more to do.

Really! I wasn't here 20 years ago, but it certainly hasn't changed much since 18 years ago, and I remember the beach walkway as being decidedly better then than now.

The only "improvement" has been Walking Street, and the sexy Russian women that one sees there.

The best thing they could do to improve Pattaya now is get rid of that stinky sewage plant at the entrance of Walking Street, and sort out the walkway. Plus a soundshell somewhere for all the events they host along the beach.

Although all is in the eye of the beholder, I've never considered Pattaya "seedy", more like a single man's "Paradise". For seedy, go to London's Soho district.

tuk com, mike mall, friendship, tesco certainly are not booming, central is busy but when i walk around poeple are just window shopping. bars are not doing well and in my opinion do not deserve to do well. i go out a lot but most bars dont have a clue how to make people feel welcome, or give a reasonable service level. the farang places are the worst where the boss sits in a corner all night drinking. i had 2 mates come to Pattaya last weekend after spending 2 months working in the dessert. we went all around, the only place, that stood out as making us want to spend our money was whats up a go go, we stayed in there for 6 hours and spent about 8000 baht, the manager came and said hello and bought us a couple of drinks. compare this with other busness where they cannot even say hello. non business men from europe who have not got a clue how to deal with a hard time. the traffic is as light as i have seen it, even lighter when you got sat nav to get you around little back streets. the business here have to face up to the fact that their customers income is down 30%, do what they are doing in the states and uk, sell cheap cheap until the recession is over.

I've visited TukCom, Friendship, Tesco, Big C, and Carrefour recently and all were doing well. I still had to stand in line at checkout at all those big stores. At Central lots of people do window shop (typical at this kind of mall everywhere), but others buy. At Banana IT, cash in hand, I couldn't get sales assistance, they were so busy. Power Buy--plenty of customers too. And as for the restaurants at Central, I tried to get into Fuji the other weekend: they had to put me on the waiting list! I left, went to the Food Court, and--it was mobbed, almost no place to sit. (Had to park on the street, too, no room for one more motorbike in the parking lot.) How could you not see that kind of evidence? Gimme a break!

But your other observations are spot on. Tropical Bert's--good example of how to do things right. He read the thread about yellow chicken curry, learned what people want, and now he's offering exactly that (according to one satisfied customer). And now I'm gonna visit and get some o' that pretty soon. Sweethearts Go-Go--heard good things about the rock music (true), went, found a really nice vibe, super friendly owner, and now I'm gonna go back next time I'm in Walking Street.

Ah, but were you visiting on the weekend? Yes, I've noticed a lot of Thais come to Pattaya on the weekend, but during the week, Central is pretty quiet. Also, the main places making money are the restaurants/ cinema etc. The clothes shops ( which make up the bulk of the shops ), which are just the same as hundreds of clothes shops all over Thailand don't seem terribly busy at the weekend, and bereft of customers during the week.

Other places are not doing well. Mike's seems to have lost the entire Asian package tour business. I was by there the other night at 9pm, and not a single tour bus! The hotels that catered to them must also be hurting badly.

Re Nalak's post. The service in the vast majority of bars/ GoGos catering for farangs has always been terrible, at least since the mid '90s ( and I've been in awful lot of them to know ). The difference then was that they knew for every PO customer there were hundreds to take their place, but now they are going to have to learn the meaning of "customer satisfaction" and "word of mouth"!

Have developed high BP, and would welcome suggestions from persons who have been treated themselves ( or have a friend/ family member with similar ) for a good, but not expensive clinic/ hospital..

Can't afford outrageously high bills, and don't want to be pressured into taking a lot of unecessary tests that they can rip me off for.

I do not need advice re causes/ treatment etc, just somewhere to see a decent Dr.

My travel insurance will not cover a routine visit, and I am definitely not rich.

While doing a search ( without success ), Sattahip Hospital was recommended in a general sense as being a good value place for medical treatment. Can anyone tell me how far from Pattaya it is, as I don't have my own transportation? Do the songtheaws that run along Sukhumvit pass nearby?

Thanks for any helpful advice.