Slip

So a question (which I hope is not too off topic). If you guys had a modest amount of Thai savings- let's say a million baht, what would you be doing with it now?

As Jack says- extremely flat at the mo.

So, the media didnt print the government spin, so now they have to feel the wrath of the forum kings. Its pathetic.

No- the lazy western media and the local red spin doctors, are just being told that no-one was fooled, and they owe their readers better than that.

^^ As evidenced by their lack of coverage of the various video that was damaging to the reds, i.e. evidence of violent military style attacks with war weapons. Those of us us who shun these 'balanced reporters' EdwardAndTubs, viewed these videos when they spread virally because we take into account many sources of information. It's good to see the BBC getting pulled up for this- I'll never trust them as a worthy source again.

This is the kind of "proof" that will never stand up in any court, not even in Burma, but in Thailand it does, because the judges are sitting on any given chair. A youtube video? What a joke, it could have been cut fifteen times and taken out of context.

I could make a Youtube video in which it appears that Suthep or Abhisit told the people to set fire to it. It is just a matter of cutting and pasting.

Besides if I tell the yellow shirts to occupy the airports and they do it, am I to blame?

1. Propoganda. The proof of the matter is that a crime has been committed. The crime is not necessarily burning something down, but incitement is a crime in most civilised countries.

2. Really? I don't imagine it would be very compelling evidence.

3. I think that comes under 'incitement'.

EDIT: Sorry 1/2 post.

I think this guy was simply stating what the violent red leaders were saying on stage. His red Thai friends told him about it if he isn't fluent, and he told the camera what was going to happen. It wasn't a complete shock really. I think the legally damning thing for him is that he was participating in an illegal occupation, when foreigners aren't even allowed to protest at regular rallies in Thailand. I would like foreigners to be able to protest at legal rallies, but I don't make the Thai laws.

Darn it JT, you're such a red apologist!

This is from today's London Evening Standard.

It would appear that Jeff is less 'sorry' than first reported:

..............

Although Savage say he was not there he admits he was outside Channel 3 Television which was also set on fire and has been off air since Wednesday.

"I did not do any looting. I did not set fire to anything, but those who did are my brothers. I am not worthy of them," said Savage.

"The attack on Channel 3 was organised. I saw the elder leaders giving directions. The Red Shirts hated Channel 3. There was a BMW showroom next door which was totally untouched."

Savage, who last worked as a hospital driver in Tonbridge, Kent, spoke after Thai police were alerted to the video taken by Scots teacher Andy McGinley, 28, from Glasgow. He said: "I could not believe what this idiot was saying. I just thought he was an anarchist but what he said was prophetic."

Of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister who most Red Shirts want back in power, Savage said: "This has all gone beyond Thaksin Shinawatra now. I have no time for him. He's one of the elite. Nor do I have time for the foreign elitist scum in Bangkok."

Savage is now in hiding with his Thai wife in the resort of Pattaya. "I am standing up for the poor," he said. "The war is over for the time being. But in two months time things will start up again. The attacks will begin."

There he goes again... New threats!

If the other one later happened, why shouldn't we trust him on this one as well?

This guy isn't going to give up his old habits. He is so brainwashed with this after he found his life had finally got a better meaning. Better meaning than driving an ambulance. Anyone who doesn't believe that he is anticipating with others on how to create more problems in the future? That guy has catched the Che Guevara syndrome.

Can't they just lock him in or at least throw him out?

.

Seeing as he may be spilling the 'protestors' deepest strategies, they may want to keep him safe.

Why should people let it go? Do you think we should all laugh it off and say 'ah nevermind; good on him.' He deserves all the bad publicity and stick he gets.

I can't think why anyone would stick up for him or think he should be let off lightly. He deserves to be thrown out the country. Idiots like these are an embarrasment for normal farang living or visiting Thailand. It paints a bad picture of us farang to Thais and what are we here, Guests. Wish people like this would just get out of Thailand and rot somewhere else; they've destroyed places like Pattaya; with their red skin stretched faces and beer bellies leering at teenage girls and thinking they are East End Gangsters. I know they are some genuine farang down there but some are just twisted.

Nevermind? Nevermind buddy- tell me it ain't you?

I agree with all of the above praise, but I want to see more Bangkok posted articles quoted in their entirety please. (Preferably with a direct link).

Simon, move to Switzerland and open their first somtam shop. Obvious really.

Cdnvic - as long as you started it- can I chuck this one up too? I laughed myself short of breath. (NB self: STOP SMOKING).

...Says Abhisit- “Life Firing Zone, Life Firing Zone, what does that mean? Many times I told them ‘live’ not ‘life”! Can’t they do anything right? Working in this country is fuc_king miserable,” he said, as several journalists nodded in agreement."

http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=902

There is nothing else the government can do at this time. The reds have painted the government into a corner.

Look at the last 4 days. The government moves to contain the Rachprasong rally. Contain ---- not crackdown! The troops move in to the areas around the reds and the reds attack. They continue to come OUT of Rachprasong and attack. The troops have not moved into the rachprasong area. The troops are working on containing them and that is all.

Personally, I assume that the government thought that this would happen. The roudier, violent, and less well trained reds are coming out and attacking and this so far has kept the 'relatively' innocent grannies, women, and totally innocent children safer inside the main rally encampment while the troops deal with the more violent reds.

I am stymied at how they plan to really proceed though. I don't see how they can move in from here. I also think that Sae Daeng's ronin will open fire on the hostages inside the red compound if the government moves in, in a bid to discredit the government.

I hope they have a plan that can give some safety to the grannies and children.

Has it occured to anyone in TV that the good General Seh Dang has trained well, the RD leaders, who have spread the training down the ranks. Look at the big picture people. They seem insane to us on the internet, but they have been very organized, very tactical, very self controlled, and the women, elderly, children have been kept in the center, or close to pathways to get to center of the compound when needed. Very strategic on their part, and very systematic in their activity day by day. Its the govt and military that are fully aware that the Reds have been trained by the best, and its the govt and military that acts more like the amateurs. Thats why he was taken out of the equation by a sniper. The probable thought being, if the general is dead, panic will sweep thru the RD camp and they will either scatter, or be confused and easily swayed or conquered. It appears that the general has instilled not only tactical training, but also fed their intestinal fortitude as well. Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it, and when it comes to learning what all is involved with Democracy, the Reds and students are learning at an exponential rate. For you average iq and education farang, that means Thai are like dry squeezed sponges released in water. They are absorbing their fill, and Thailand will never be the same after this is finally settled.

Dude! Nice mixed metaphor. Apart from that- sorry, I don't quite get your quasi-military analysis. Possibly I'm not a farang of average iq/ education. What's that particular measurement again? Your IEQ?

As soon as the reds drop their military wing and Thaksin they will find a much more favourable reception awaiting from the rest of the country. It doesn't seem that hard to me.

To all posters.

Would it be asking too much for you to post your ideas without calling others names?

Um, newbie. No-one in the posts you quoted called anyone else a name.

Now I've called you Newbie- sorry, no offence intended, but your post was still misrepresentative

There is nothing else the government can do at this time. The reds have painted the government into a corner.

Look at the last 4 days. The government moves to contain the Rachprasong rally. Contain ---- not crackdown! The troops move in to the areas around the reds and the reds attack. They continue to come OUT of Rachprasong and attack. The troops have not moved into the rachprasong area. The troops are working on containing them and that is all.

Personally, I assume that the government thought that this would happen. The roudier, violent, and less well trained reds are coming out and attacking and this so far has kept the 'relatively' innocent grannies, women, and totally innocent children safer inside the main rally encampment while the troops deal with the more violent reds.

I am stymied at how they plan to really proceed though. I don't see how they can move in from here. I also think that Sae Daeng's ronin will open fire on the hostages inside the red compound if the government moves in, in a bid to discredit the government.

I hope they have a plan that can give some safety to the grannies and children.

Has it occured to anyone in TV that the good General Seh Dang has trained well, the RD leaders, who have spread the training down the ranks. Look at the big picture people. They seem insane to us on the internet, but they have been very organized, very tactical, very self controlled, and the women, elderly, children have been kept in the center, or close to pathways to get to center of the compound when needed. Very strategic on their part, and very systematic in their activity day by day. Its the govt and military that are fully aware that the Reds have been trained by the best, and its the govt and military that acts more like the amateurs. Thats why he was taken out of the equation by a sniper. The probable thought being, if the general is dead, panic will sweep thru the RD camp and they will either scatter, or be confused and easily swayed or conquered. It appears that the general has instilled not only tactical training, but also fed their intestinal fortitude as well. Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it, and when it comes to learning what all is involved with Democracy, the Reds and students are learning at an exponential rate. For you average iq and education farang, that means Thai are like dry squeezed sponges released in water. They are absorbing their fill, and Thailand will never be the same after this is finally settled.

Dude! Nice mixed metaphor. Apart from that- sorry, I don't quite get your quasi-military analysis. Possibly I'm not a farang of average iq/ education. What's that particular measurement again? Your IEQ?

As soon as the reds drop their military wing and Thaksin they will find a much more favourable reception awaiting from the rest of the country. It doesn't seem that hard to me.

Congratulation about spirit who made this video clip.

Humorous attitude despite of very critical situation made me admire to this guy who made this video.

I hope that will be wind of change.

The same guy also made this video about Abhisit:

Sadly, it was nowhere near as funny- bit like the Shermans buggering up 'the office'.

Let me say first that what I want to point with this post is only how the international media report the situation. I attach here 4 screen shots from BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN and Channel News Asia. All of them have the same title more or less: "Thai protesters defy evacuation deadline". The important think is the photos that are using for this articles. There is no photo of violence, 2 of them have kids, one is showing a peaceful group of people and another the dead military leader of the Reds (but not in a violent photo). The one conclusion is that the Thai government has lost for the time being the "media game". And it will need some very convincing arguments to change the mindset of the media. Is it important? No for the situation in Thailand but it is important for the credibility of the government at the international level. Very difficult days in front of Abhisit!

Abisit & the Govt need to hire the high powered PR firms that Thaksin has hired to turn out the sound bites suitable for western audiences and usable by CNN, BBC etc. I know they shouldn't have to do this but it's time to recognize that there is a media war being raged against the Govt somewhat orchestrated by ...... guess who & his money.

Just one rhetoric question; can you see beyond these two persons? Anhisit and Thaksin? You are talking here for reporters that have years of experience and you thing that they play the game of Thaksin or Abhisit? I know the international reporters; the majority of them are people looking after the truth. I am sorry for my expression but they don't give a s..... about Thaksin or Abhisit. It might happens with the Thai media but with the international ones your reasoning is not valid.

Well I don't really care about Abisit either. He's simply the PM and leader of the Govt and theoretical "man in charge" on the Govt side and I suppose that's why many people use "Abisit" when they just as easily could use "Government".

But on the other hand I am concerned about Thaksin and those crackerjack international reporters should be also if they want to find the "truth" and I believe those journalists who have been living here understand this.

The international media coverage of this event, by most recognised channels, blows goats. The fact that the recurring identity red shirt-apologists have so many links atm is because of shit, sales based reporting by companies that are supposed to be interested in civilised human values, rather than flogging papers or scoring hits on their site. (Just for the record Maggie and Rupert f****d professional reporting in the UK- same as free milk and the miners).

Let me say first that what I want to point with this post is only how the international media report the situation. I attach here 4 screen shots from BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN and Channel News Asia. All of them have the same title more or less: "Thai protesters defy evacuation deadline". The important think is the photos that are using for this articles. There is no photo of violence, 2 of them have kids, one is showing a peaceful group of people and another the dead military leader of the Reds (but not in a violent photo). The one conclusion is that the Thai government has lost for the time being the "media game". And it will need some very convincing arguments to change the mindset of the media. Is it important? No for the situation in Thailand but it is important for the credibility of the government at the international level. Very difficult days in front of Abhisit!

Abisit & the Govt need to hire the high powered PR firms that Thaksin has hired to turn out the sound bites suitable for western audiences and usable by CNN, BBC etc. I know they shouldn't have to do this but it's time to recognize that there is a media war being raged against the Govt somewhat orchestrated by ...... guess who & his money.

Just one rhetoric question; can you see beyond these two persons? Anhisit and Thaksin? You are talking here for reporters that have years of experience and you thing that they play the game of Thaksin or Abhisit? I know the international reporters; the majority of them are people looking after the truth. I am sorry for my expression but they don't give a s..... about Thaksin or Abhisit. It might happens with the Thai media but with the international ones your reasoning is not valid.

Well, even now, after all this time, anyone who ignores Thaksin's influence is a fool, or biased one way or the other. Bit like CNN and the Beeb really. Sad days for an Englishman....

There really is only one answer that doesn't need more explaining unless you are a paranoid nut job who is against law and order and that simply is that they are trying to do this with the least loss of life and property .... including their own. You can get more into specifics but that is the bottom line.

the government's refusal to grant general amnesty has done wonders for law and order in bangkok in the last four days, hasnt it?

sometimes, in the false pursuit of law and order, lawlessness and chaos are borne.

An amnesty for revolutionaries? Hella! that's a civilised government only ever heard of in sci-fi novels.

Anyone remember Guy Fawkes?

5.....

You don't even understand the most basic thing, yet you keep arguing.

It doesn't matter whether you watch or don't watch TV. What matters is whether you own a TV.

Yeah, I don't live in the UK, yeah. Makes you wonder, eh? Maybe I live somewhere else or something. Yeah. let's bet on it. Do you wanna bet where I live? Yeah... yeah... let's bet. Hmmm... I live on Mars, yeah. Oh no! I don't know anything! You Yellows have caught me out with your wit again! I'm not even living on this planet! Oh no! Let's grow up "live-at-home students"...

Yeah, I own a TV. I also have a job. I can't avoid paying tax on my income - the government take it from my pay-packet without my asking.

Just about everyone owns a TV. Flushing toilets are a different matter. They do that to my pay packet too! Bloody amarts!

I never doubt that Abhisit has the majority, technically he has, but a PM, a country's leader needs more qualities than just a small small majority of MPs vote for him. He is not the man that can pacify the divided country. This government is a failure, they divided the country even more and do horrible damage that will need more than a generation to heal. Abhisit has become an ugly dictator.

And luckily for Thailand he has those extra qualities. He has steered this country through a very difficult time, with the minimum of casualties. Can you imagine the carnage if it was your standard leader from recent Thai history? Well you don't have to imagine - you can look it up.

Had a phone call today with a doctor friend in hongkong inquiring if this mayhem puts me in danger as she read about it in one of the latest asian news articles in a news paper ( small print) I asked what the hongkong people think about whats going on in bkk at the moment,

Her answer was, Oh thailand does,nt really make the news much here in hk now and the people arn,t interested, Thailand for the hk people is nothing more than a place for a cheap weeks holiday to buy tshirts you can only wear one time and many of my patients come back from there with std.

That probably says more about the denizens of HK than Thailand to be honest.

Ignore me. seems links to photobucket no longer allowed.

Army seem to be shooting selves and gov in foot again as well as delivery men, medics, children, taxi drivers.

Some serious corrupt gov and elite is this if full force of army have to prop it up.... again.

Sick, and hope Abhisit never turns up in UK as warrent will await him.

Many thais in England see to that.. promise

What <deleted>! Do you have any possible reasoning or evidence to support this fantastic claim? For the most part, Thais here are ambivalent. Overseas they may be more polarised, but I don't see how they could affect the policing decisions of England.

As the days go on the red wedge seem to became more unhinged in their postings.

and of course when POWER and MONEY are involved then real EVIL rules ....Khun T famous comments on the "dark forces" comming out to haunt the joint........

err ...who in T land has the most money anyway...................cant say..... right.....

So when do you think TV will be reviewing your membership status?

Pretty soon if they have any sense.

In a modern country a parent or guardian who puts a child in jeopardy (like, for instance, refuses to evacuate the child from a 'live fire' area) is liable to criminal charges. The red leadership failing to encourage the parents/guardians to get the kids out of there can also face criminal charges.

How "modern" is a Government that declares an inner city area and a rally site to a 'live fire zone' for its military?

Isn't such a government criminal as well and lost any eligibility or legitimacy to be the country's 'guardian' ?

What a silly argument, about as modern as a "democratic movement" that sets up bamboo spears and gasoline-soaked tires in a commercial district and shoots people in the dark. Can we move away from this? We all know where you stand.

Since we all want a return to peace ASAP, I'm wondering why Veera and the other Red leaders who supported the roadmap and Nov 14 don't make public statements backing the gov't and publicly calling for the Rajaprasong protesters to cease and desists, while also calling on the gov't to return to the roadmap.

That would go a LONG way to calming a lot of people down, leaving only the few hel_l bent on violence to meet whatever end they long for.

Anybody got Veera's email/phone no?

It's: Veera@youcrazyfriggingwanke_rs.com