JimGant

14 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I can prove that the average wage in Thailand is 15k Baht per month which is below the filing threshold

Not if you're single, whose filing threshold requirement is 120k -- well below the 180k average annual wage. And, if your married, and your wife makes 3.4k annually -- you now meet the 220k threshold requiring filing a tax return.

Sounds like a lot of folks are ignoring (more likely, unaware) of the filing requirement. Understandable, since it's a dumb requirement, as there's no revenue gained by requiring null tax filings.

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Perhaps just how they work, but was totally stumped when I asked what difference any of that made when the top line figure is not taxable. Blank look.

Out of curiosity, does your spreadsheet show you don't owe any Thai taxes (but you're supposed to file 'cause your assessable income exceeded 120/220k)? And, when the lady implied you needed to fill in line items with non assessable income -- when no such lines exist -- did you realize this was a certifiable goat **ck? And, then, did you ever consider walking away, knowing that, by not owing any taxes, you were not subject to any injurious penalties -- and you were totally wasting an otherwise good day?

Just curious.

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

TRD has always told me that they don't want to know about exempt income when filing a return. Despite that, I told them anyway so they just ignored it.

Kudos to TRD, for extracting the chaff from the wheat.

23 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Some advisors recommend gifting to an offshore account in the wife's name.  Would be non-taxable for you (depending on your home country gifting rules) as giver, and non-taxable for your wife until she remits to Thailand,

If the wife remitted monies from an offshore account in her name, which contained monies from a bank loan, from an inheritance from her father, and from a gift from you -- sounds like a completely non income remitting event. So, why would she be subject to Thai taxation? Yes, you -- the gifter -- are certainly money laundering that gift. Ho hum.

6 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

...which is why I believe non assessable funds will need to be reported, as they are in other countries.

 

Non assessable funds will not need to be reported. That's a very strange assertion, that means you believe every single remittance into any Thai bank account needs to be reported. You can see multiple other members already disagreeing with you here.  I thought 'ludicrous', was apt to describe that. 

I guess the UK requires some non assessable (tax exempt) income to  be reported -- don't know what that drives? And, the US requires tax exempt interest (on govt bonds) to be reported -- and that drives (when added to taxable income) what your Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is, a number that determines your Medicare premium.

And, certainly CM,  you meant "non assessable INCOME," not non assessable FUNDS (which could include your inheritance from Aunt Martha)? But even here, a line item (or many), showing non assessable income(s) -- won't mean a damn, unless TRD has the time and assets (they don't) to scrutinize each from their library containing 61different DTAs. No, there is nothing I can see that would drive the requirement for a non assessable income line item (unless, it exceeded an established large threshold number, thus driving an audit).

But, the folks they're interested in won't even be filing tax returns. So, what makes sense, is for TRD to ask the Thai banking system to provide a list of foreigners whose annual remittance exceeds some large number. Then, determine from Immigration, whether or not these folks exceeded 180 days of stay. Then, decide who to have a chat with.

But, no -- a line item, or items, of non assessable income(s) on your tax return -- doesn't pass the smell test.

43 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

How do you know it will still be valid or even exist, should Thailand take the leap to worldwide taxation ?

Why is explaining to you so difficult? I've already pointed out that the existing DTAs with Thailand have absolutely nothing in them dealing with Thailand's insistence that only remitted income is subject to the DTA language. This is a Thailand-only footnote, that when removed, will just have the DTA revert to its original intent -- covering ALL income in the specific category. The remittance footnote was just a convenience for Thailand, that had absolutely no affect on the DTA's purpose of preventing double taxation.

Do me a favor -- read your country's DTA with Thailand, and show me where in it changes are required to bring this DTA up to speed to accommodate worldwide taxation. I guarantee you won't find any.

Out of curiosity -- what is your background? You seem like a bright fella. Just curious about your work background. Fair enuf?

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

It will become a valid wangle if and when Thailand announces it will move to worldwide taxation.

Geez, the poor guy admitted he knew his current non remittance situation had no tax implications. But, he wanted to know, per DTA, what he might expect IF and WHEN Thailand goes to world wide taxation. And, yes, that DTA will still be valid. What's wrong with preparing for potential occurrences .......? Gosh darn, he might even use a spreadsheet with any and all new found information...

49 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So asking about DTA's on worldwide taxation is horse manure. They will probably be scrapped / re-written as part of any plan to move to worldwide taxation.

The DTAs with Thailand are all based on Model OECD and UN tax treaties, where you'll not find the phrase "remitted income." Check your country's DTA with Thailand, and you'll see the wording fits just fine with worldwide taxation. Remitted is just a footnote by Thailand to the income language in the DTAs, allowing a discount on that worldwide income that doesn't cross the Thai border. Thus, nothing needed to modify DTAs, if and when Thailand switches to worldwide taxation. And, I see no need to modify today's TEDAs either, if the remittance footnote goes away -- those TEDAs fit just fine with worldwide taxation.

So, CM -- your spreadsheet drill should be pretty accurate for a worldwide taxation scenario.

34 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

What does your DTA say? Most DTAs would prevent Thailand from taxing a pension paid for past govt service ('tho there are exceptions, like Norway). And most DTAs would give Thailand primary taxation rights on private pensions ('tho, again, there are exceptions -- like Canada).

And, under world wide taxation, it makes no difference whether or not subject income is remitted.

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Does this example reflect a correct understanding of "First In First Out" or not?

You've nailed it. You've  got a goulash of fungible monies -- whose character is determined by the time lines of the deposited tranches. Simple enough to begin at the bottom, and end your time line marker when you reach amount sent. Total tranches sent, plus the partial tranche at the end -- will allow you to easily determine assessable vs non assessable monies remitted.

The use of FIFO was discussed in a Bangkok Post article in 2012 (link, below). A  totally sound article, about how to deal with non specific (i.e., fungible) remittances. Lacking anything otherwise definitive from the TRD, I'd certainly feel comfortable putting this article in your notes, should TRD come knocking with an audit.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/299691/when-the-revenue-department-changes-its-mind-the-taxpayer-gets-the-headache

2 hours ago, Rhys said:

Jim ,,, how is the medication working out now.. You have been on this for some time now?

No side effects, at least that I'm aware of. And I'm not on dialysis -- whether that's due to Forxiga, or not -- who knows. Tricare still pays in full.

53 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The printed figures tell you that what they had actually printed was wrong.

 

9 million filed

 

3 million paid tax

 

6 million paid nothing.

 

Rounded to the nearest million.

Wow, you really nailed their erroneous reporting. My apologies.

15 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

What does the Thai Revenue code say about thresholds for tax filing  ?
 

They are the actual tax authority not the BP.

Yeah, but wouldn't you like to know why the BP would report something not in conjunction with TRD code? Particularly since -- at least to me -- it makes more sense that their: "must file when taxes are due" makes more sense than the TRD code requiring null tax returns.........

Anyway, fat chance we'll ever know why BP reported as they did. So, let's give it a rest.

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

A very badly worded paragraph. I would suggest it should read:

3.3 million had a monthly income above 25,000 baht, where tax, on average, becomes payable, after deductions and actually paid tax.

You might "suggest," but what I was responding to was the BP's " 25,000 baht, the minimum threshold to file tax forms" Your suggestion doesn't change what they reported. Maybe you're correct that maybe your suggestion is what they meant. But, my response was to what they actually reported -- and what possible subsequent conclusions could be made from their report.

52 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Nah....not going there, but thanks for the invite.

Ah, come on CM. You must have some opinion on my observations vs the Cyclist's?

25 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Limits for actually starting to pay tax equates to an average salary of 25,000 baht a month ( as reported in the BP )

Geez, "actually starting to pay tax" are totally words of your invention. The BP's words were:  25,000 baht, the minimum threshold to file tax forms,

Which is  what I was replying to. What's wrong with your comprehension?

15 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Are you just being rather obtuse, or trolling for effect ?

Or can't you even understand English, from the Bangok Post, albeit of the translated variety:

Quote

25,000 baht, the minimum threshold to file tax forms,

Can't you understand the written word? What does "minimum threshold to file tax forms" mean to you? Yes, I'm well aware of the published thresholds for required filing of 120/220. But I'm taking to task the BP for changing that threshold to 300k -- which you conveniently interpret as somehow a threshold where taxable income begins (an unrealistic threshold, since everyone's threshold is determined by TEDA).

Quote

All clear so far, you keeping up the back ?

 Talk about being obtuse. I guess you find my use of math a distraction?

Quote

The 25,000 baht a month income ( which you extrapolated to 300k a year )

The emphasis added was yours. Is the product of 12x25 so astonishing to you? So offensive? Or is it in keeping with tax returns dealing with annual, not monthly, figures?

Anyway, it's obvious you and I think on different frequencies. If you can't understand my postings, maybe it would be best if you analyzed for a little bit longer, before replying to a post whose elements escape your understanding. Cheers.

7 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Out of 9.55 million taxpayers, there were 3.3 million people who had a monthly income of 25,000 baht, the minimum threshold to file tax forms,

Wait a minute... We keep hearing that the minimum threshold for the requirement to file a tax return is 120k single -- 220k married. Now the BP is reporting the threshold is 300k baht per year. Which is it?

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

3.3 million actually paid tax, on an income of 25,000 baht a month or above.

Ah, so the 25k/mo -- 300k/year -- is, on average, the threshold after which taxes are due. Which just happens to be the threshold whereby a tax return is required to be filed. Could it be that -- the threshold to file a tax return just happens to equate to the threshold after which taxes are due? Naaa. That makes too much sense.

But what about those 6.25 million folks who filed tax returns, but didn't owe taxes? Were they, of sound mind and pure soul, merely adhering to the requirement to file, if one exceeded 120k/220k? Or had their employers withheld taxes, as required -- and they were just filing to have these withholdings refunded? (And, as a BP article recently reported, there were many fraudulent tax filings for the return of phantom wiithholdings.) Hmmmm.

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

Those forms do NOT appear to be intended for any LTR visa holder other than the LTR Highly Skilled Professional

Yeah. My quote was from the Expattax folk's FAQ page -- which, I've found, has a lot of questionable observations. But, hey, they do start out their webpage with the disclaimer: "The information on this website is for informational purposes only and is not professional tax advice." So, maybe they're honest, if not dependable. Hey, they're the ones who maintain pre 2024 income, to be non assessable when remitted, must only be from a savings account. Chew on that for awhile.

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But that is an opinion and if you're not a Thai tax lawyer how much power does that have with Thai Revenue?

...still waiting to see something official from TRD that says that Por 162 pre 2024 income must manifest itself only as bank account savings, in order to be exempt from Thai taxation. Absent that, I would submit you're free to choose the avenue that provides the best outcome for your remittance of pre 2024 income. Because, absent that, you've got a solid argument in any audit scenario. Worst case, if you lose -- 'cause your solid argument certainly gives you credence against a tax evasion charge -- is pay the taxes owed, with interest. Having said that, if you do decide to not declare these pre 2024 monies on a Thai tax return -- there's nothing there for TRD to peruse as a potential audit -- since there are no line items for non assessable income. Thus, chances of an audit for a nil line item is zip; only if you're caught up in a random compliance audit would -- MAYBE -- they would ask about non declared, non assessable incomes. Hey, weigh your odds of an audit -- and what's the worst that could happen if somehow your pre 2024 income remittances didn't stand scrutiny.

Up to you. No brainer, IMO.

Does anyone know anything about this, from the Expattax FAQ page, where they say there's now a new form you have to file for Royal Decree exempted income: