JimGant

However, various "smart money" approaches to using ATM cards here in Thailand still are a more economical option for now for routine, day to day living expenses, as long as we have viable alternatives that allow us to avoid the 150 baht fee, or for that matter, any fee at either the U.S. or Thai end.

Ok, as an example, we've read here about some E*Trade ATM cards that don't charge anything on their own -- plus they absorb the 1% foreign transaction fee charged by Visa. Great deal -- the only proviso being, apparently, you need to be a premier customer of some sort, either by amounts in your account and/or amounts traded per cycle. Not bad, particularly if you would have done this without any ATM fee forgiveness in mind at all.

But, I've not seen anywhere where E*Trade reimburses ATM owner fees.....

So, assuming the max dispensed by a BB ATM of 25000, if my free E*Trade ATM card still cost me 150bt per transaction, this would be a cost of .6% (150/25000). But my sending $8000 via ACH/EFT only cost .3% -- and (because the fees are fixed), I would only pay .2% to send $12,000.

Now, if E*Trade -- and other no-fee ATM cards -- begin to reimburse the 150bt, yeah, they're the best deal. Until then, ACH/EFT wins (with the exception of taking your E*Trade ATM to Kasikorn, at least so far).

Out of curiosity, how about the Europeans/Brits/Ozzies/Kiwies -- do you have an equivalent avenue to ACH/EFT to send money cheaper than the wire/SWIFT route?)

I wonder, provided one's local U.S. bank's ACH limits allow it (different banks set different daily and monthly limits on allowed ACH transfers), if an ACH to BKK Bank above the $10,000 threshold would trigger any kind of hassles?

Well, my USAA limit for ACH is initially set up for a $5000/day max. A simple phone call raised this to $30,000 -- and subsequent ACHs to my other US bank, for amounts around $15000, were flawless. Can't imagine why this wouldn't work for Bangkok Bank. Don't really want to send more than $10000 at a time (foreign exchange risk; much better interest rates at USAA; no longer save that much by sending huge amounts, as I did in the SWIFT days). But, out of curiosity, next time I will (unless someone checks in before then, with confirmation that above $10k is no problem).

Then, if that option fails (all the Thai banks implement the fees), the second choice would be the ATM card withdrawal at the bank counter approach (which has no fees, by all accounts, at present).

Some *do* have fees for counter ATM/Debit withdrawals -- pretty high from the reports. And those that currently don't --? Well, when the queues of roundeyes, complete with debit cards and passports, flood their lobbies, overwhelm their staff, and piss off the regulars -- something has to change. And since the inside operation is basically an ATM operation, with a more costly human interface, something's going to happen that will make that 150bt charge at the ATM machine look comparatively good.

One option not mentioned, at least for holders of US accounts, is the ACH/EFT transfer thru Bangkok Bank New York. ( See HERE) Much discussion on this awhile back, mainly about all the problems some folks were having. Problems have been fixed. And while some banks, like Bank of America, charge for the ACH service -- and take 3-4 days (because of their middleman, CashEdge), many others don't. For example, E*Trade and USAA Federal Savings don't use CashEdge, don't charge, and take 2 business days (I confirmed this last week with a $8000 transfer). I paid $10 on the New York end, and 500bt here, for an effective cost of .3%. Much better than my ATM card, even with its reimbursement of the 150bt fee. And certainly much better than any wire/SWIFT transfer, with its high fees.

If I'm caught short, I'll walkabout to find an ATM rather than use my credit card.

Interesting. Must have one of those credit cards that add 3% to the 1% foreign transaction fee. But there are some deals out there -- Nationwide and Capital One the usual ones discussed. But there are others. USAA MasterCard only passes on the 1% foreign transaction fee -- then it gives a 1% rebate on all purchases. No use walking around, looking for an ATM machine, with that kind of a deal.

Betchya the majority of us who live here will use wire transfers and THAI Banks won't get a cent out of it

Where you going to wire the money to, if not a Thai bank? So now they have your money, which they pay a ridiculously low interest rate on, to loan out. They'll certainly now be making more than they were off your use of their ATM machine, which was mainly set up as a convenience for their full-up customers, and paid for by the extra clerks they didn't have to hire. Before the 150bt, I bet they weren't making enough to cover the cost of wear and tear. Now, they've got your money to loan out -- plus less maintenance costs on their ATM machines. I'm sure they're not too worried about the lost opportunity cost of 150bt. I'm sure they had this all figured out from the git go.

Interesting. But she was interested in staying 6 weeks, so a 30-day stamp in her US passport wasn't an option, as she didn't want the hassle of having to get a one-year extension based on Thai nationality.

If you're saying Immigration would waive her thru with an expired Thai passport, that's also interesting. But without a stamp in her US passport, she would have to get a new Thai passport before she returned to the States. And she wasn't interested in spending time in Bangkok doing that.

(She subsequently did get a Thai passport once back in the States.)

Except for 'permanent' tourists, the other kind won't change their habits much based on having to pay 150bt each for only one or two hits at the ATM machine. And except for the truly travel savvy, most tourists already have ATM cards that have fixed fees at the issuing end, plus 2-3% tacked on to the 1% foreign transaction fee. Thus, at 4% plus, they're already paying at least 1000bt to get 25000bt. But, they didn't run out and change banks just for the occasional holiday abroad. Besides, the ease of an ATM machine sure beats having to get travellers checks, stand in line in a foreign bank lobby, and then try to make yourself understood by someone who keeps calling you a 'cop.'

And for those of us who live here, it's time to start using that Thai bank ATM card again (the Thai bankers said, with a knowing grin, visualizing all those new transfers in....). I sure will, as this whole discussion had me re-look my spreadsheet numbers:

-- My USAA Federal Savings ATM card supposedly only passes on the 1% foreign transaction fee. However, the numbers say I have been paying 1.3% off the TT rate -- and 1.6% off the Interbank Exchange Rate. So, even tho they reimburse ATM owner fees, like the 150bt, I'm still paying too much.

-- I used to SWIFT large chunks twice a year to my Bangkok Bank account to better amortize the $35 wire fees over large amounts. However, I stopped doing this a year ago as the baht headed down -- and parking money here had a distinct foreign exchange risk.

-- I recently signed up with USAA to enable EFT/ACH of funds to my Bangkok Bank account via their branch in New York. Last Wednesday night I sent $8000 -- and it was in my account 41 hours later. Yeah, SWIFT is swifter -- but I can live with 41 hours. Plus, USAA charges nothing; BB New York charges $10; and my BB account here, 500bt. So my cost was only .3% off the TT rate -- or 1% better than using my USAA ATM card here.

-- If I go through $50,000/yr here, that's a savings of $500. Real money.

-- I guess I could get an E*trade or Capitol One card. But I bet the future of savings on transfers is with ACH/EFT, as all cards seem to be sneaking in new fees.

All this discussion on 150bt fees is gonna save me some money!

Also you mentioned a Thai with an expired passport. They could of entered with an expired passport with no problem

Expired Thai passport -- and no visa -- might not have played out nicely at the NorthWest checkin counter.

Royal Thai Honary Consul in Oregon USA requirements state they need onward ticket and other requirements seemingly absent from Thai Embassy in Los Angeles!

Can't seem to bring up the LA Consulate website. But a few weeks back, they too were asking for onward tickets, except for non US citizens. Funny -- except there is nothing funny about the LA Consulate -- the poster who brought this to our attention *was* a US citizen -- but LA still wanted to see his onward ticket. Just in case you were actually a bogus US citizen, I guess........

Thai Embassy DC requests onward tickets from everyone -- US citizen or not. You can never be too sure, I guess..........

Also I have never had to show any tickets

This is a relatively new wrinkle -- and even the honorary consulates are now advertising it as a requirement. But, I haven't seen any reports about how the honoraries are enforcing it.........

We have a Thai friend, naturalized US citizen, who went to the Thai Embassy DC for a tourist visa (her Thai passport had expired). They were almost rude about insisting on the return ticket, plus money in the bank. Absolutely no reason for that -- if she overstayed her entry, she still had a valid Thai ID card -- not like she was a potential illegal immigrant. One-upsmanship syndrome.

And, exit tickets for double/triple entry tourist visas don't make much sense. You request this kind of tourist visa for the flexibility it presents.....not knowing exit dates, thus not having your exit ticket, is part of this flexibility.

I once saw where the NY consulate asked for the entry ticket to Thailand before issuing a tourist visa. Nice they wanted to make sure you weren't wasting your money on a visa in case you weren't positive about using it........

I'll throw this out to Lopburi.........

There have been several situations lately on the forum involving folks here on work extensions that wish to retire -- and convert to a retirement extension. My questions are:

Ok, they have been here for several years, getting extensions based on work, so their Non Imm B visa has long ago expired. To get a retirement extension, is there any reason why they need to now get a Non Imm O visa?

Assuming *no* above, do they then just go to Immigration, with all their retirement extension requirements in hand, before their current work extension/work permit expires?

If *yes* to the above, I would assume the '21 days remaining on permission to stay' would not apply, since that is usually used for converting/receiving a Non Imm O visa in-country?

Any suggestions on starting this process would be appreciated.

Write out in longhand what you want to happen with your assets. Besides helping to organize what it is you want to happen, it will serve as a legal (holographic) will until -- or if -- you decide when and how to go a more formal route --. So, if you get hit by a truck tomorrow, you're covered, so to speak.

And while holographic wills don't require witnesses, they are a good idea. And since, presumably, you'll write the will in English, it probably is a good idea to have it later formalized and translated into Thai. And since that means it is no longer holographic, you will need witnesses. Two Amphur officials would be my recommendation. Thai lawyer optional. (Amphurs have boilerplate wills that, while not required, do give you a feel for the areas they are looking for to be covered.)

Life insurance policies you own on yourself, with beneficiary, don't pass through probate (ie, no will required). And, if your assets in Jersey are nontangibles, they too can escape probate if jointly owned, or even with something as simple as a Pay on Death (POD) clause and beneficiary.

A will, however, keeps things tidy when it comes to tangibles. For Jersey, if applicable, and for that '57 Chevy in the States (if not jointlyowned), draw up a will using boilerplate software. Witnesses required. Notarization optional.

There are lots of ways for expats to hold residential property and houses in Thailand that are 100% secure and legal (the long lease with option of renew and with the right to leave both house and land to a beneficiary is one legal way to do it),

You just blew your credibility with that statment. The 'renewable lease' argument has been discussed ad infinitum on ThaiVisa, with the conclusion always being: the Land Office doesn't recognize anything more than a 30-year lease. Yes, you might draw up a contract with the current owner indicating the 30-year renewal option. And, yes, if he happens to be the same owner 30 years hence, you might be able to uphold this clause in court (no case law yet along these lines). But if he's sold the land.......... Anyway, no need to repeat the tons of info on this subject readily searchable.

It was a multi entry O-A.

Thanx for that -- and letting us add Boston to the repository of good guys.

LA, you're here why? Oh yeah, to service your brethren in Thai Town.

with a scheduled return date of 11 August 2009. This will presumably mean that I shall then be stamped in until 10 August 2010?

I don't know what happens if the plane arrives late, as on the next day when your visa expires. I've arrived (chocked in) shortly after midnight on flights scheduled to arrive pre-midnight -- and have been stamped in as if I had arrived pre-midnight. Whether that's the policy, I don't know. I would think, however, if your flight has a mechanical delay -- and arrives well on the 12th, you'll be the proud recepient of a 30-day stamp .

Not sure honorary consulates can do OA's though.

For sure Houston, Honolulu, and Portland -- and now we see that Boston also issues O-As. I believe most others in the US do too, with the possible exception of Denver. It's in the UK where the honoraries have stopped issuing O-As. Curious, as they do issue O visas with easier-to-meet criteria than in the US. And I believe all the honoraries in Australia issue O-As -- for sure Perth -- which also has user friendly criteria for O visas. Definitely no consistency between Thai honorary consulates worldwide -- and even within individual countries, at least in the US. Curious, but not surprising with fiefdom mentality.

Fast and friendly service for my tourist visa in Feb and then my O-A in April.

gr, was that a multi entry O-A? If not, did you have that option?

Denver is very friendly but only helps those from the local area.

Likewise Houston.

If you mean Houston is "very friendly," then yes. But unlike Denver, they *do* accept applications US-wide.

A few years back, the Denver Honorary Consulate sent this email to the PattayaExpatsClub:

We are trying to tell customers who are trying to obtain a visa, to go to their

nearest consulate within the state they reside in. We will accept travelers

who are within the state of Colorado or neighboring cities who do not have a

consulate in their area.

We are trying to make customers understand that we will not be issuing

visas as easily as we had in the past due to the changes that have taken

place since October 2006. We are trying to follow the rules the best we can

per the Thai Embassy.

We do not want customers misinformed that we can issue ANY TYPE of visa

easily if requested or we will take applications from those who

reside outside our area. We will try to ask the customer to provide as

much documentation as possible pertaining to the type of visa applied for.

Somehow, they got spooked about territorial rice bowls. So did the Miami Honorary Consulate. Most others, however, did not -- and will stlll honor mail in applications from within the overall US (but not from outside).

It's easy to see how the confusion might have happened, as we all know Thais don't like "in your face" directives. And I'm sure such a directive to a bunch of (mostly) US lawyers acting as honorary consul generals would be even more unappealing. So, something open to interpretation was put out by the Thai Embassy -- and thus we have ... open interpretations.

Anyway, this territorial thing has always been a big deal with the LA Consulate, who it seems, doesn't even recognize honorary consulates (per the Austin native who was told to go to the Thai Embassy DC vice either of the three honorary consulates in Texas). Hopefully, we won't see more of this, as it's just a reaction by offices that are seeing more of their 'territorial' customers going to more efficient, user friendly offices in other territories. And the same thing is now happening with Immigration Offices in Thailand -- rice bowl protection time, forcing us to go back to the crummy offices we learned (and once were able) to avoid.

Once again Thailand bureaucracy doesn't get the Deming Award for user-friendly efficiencies.

Applications are usually processed approximately within 10 business days

(not including mailing time)

The quote applies for mail ins to the Thai Embassy DC. Mail it to Houston First Class on a Friday, get it back the following Thursday. I bet most of the other honorary consulates are about the same.

E*trade Bank has never before offered ATM refund on International transfers.

Yeah, nothing on the flyerguide site shown a few posts back (HERE) about e*trade refunding ATM owner charges. But, this would be an e*trade policy, not a Siam City Bank policy, so refunds should apply anywhere the ATM owners are tacking on fees. I just wonder what their monthly limit is --

Also, interesting the rate you're getting, as you're getting pretty much the TT rate, indicating most, if not all, the foreign transaction fee is being absorbed by e*trade. Again, from the flyguide site, in the note next to e*trade:

Confirmed [the 1% fee] August 2008. One user disagrees. According to secure communication, ETrade "reserves the right to charge 1% but currently does not."

I guess you would be the second user to disagree. (Oh, the flyerguide site encourages user input changes -- you might want to input the ATM owner fee reimbursement policy.)

Assuming their monthly reimbursement limit fits the number of trips to the ATM, I'd say you're sitting pretty.

I always thought the individual Thai banks that have ATMs set their own exchange rates for foreign currency transactions, but don't know that for certain.

No, the exchange rates for network transactions are set by the networks (primary being Visa Plus and MasterCard Cirrus).

JF, you wrote back in August (see This Thread Post #13.)

The VISA site for Aug. 10 shows their U.S. $/Thai baht exchange rate as 33.70 baht to $1.

If VISA is typically taking a 1% fee....that would equate to a cut of about .34 basis points.

Thus the net cash received for ATM withdrawals (assuming no other bank fees are being added in) would be about 33.36.

And that's just what my various ATM withdrawals lately from BKK Bank have been netting, using any variety of VISA network ATM and debit cards....

And, it would appear, this is what you found this morning with your ATM transaction.

You'll never be able to discern exact fees, at least in aggregate, because you'll never know the exact exchange rate being used. Yes, it does approximate the daily published Interbank Exchange Rate (IER) -- but this is an average. For ATM transactions, it's the near real time exchange rate in effect at the time of your transaction, not the average. But if you're realizing about a 1% charge off the published IER, you're doing pretty good, considering so many banks are adding their own percentage mark-ups to the networks' 1% foreign transaction fee. And don't forget, somewhere amongst the aggregate fee you're being charged is something being paid to the owner of the ATM -- and I'm not talking about the new 150 baht charge.

Actually, This Thread has some pretty good points on this subject. And article #45 (by none other than JFChandler ) has the following, timely observation:

The bottom line result: while the 20 baht ATM fee charged by SCB showed up on my paper ATM receipt, the ATM fee did not list separately when the withdrawal surfaced in my SalemFive acount. The 20 baht fee was just included as part of the overall single dollar amount withdrawal.

So, I ended up emailing SalemFive and just got the following answer: If the foreign bank ATM fee is listed/sent along separately, then their fee reimbursement should happen automatically. However, in a case like SCB where the fee amount is not listed/sent along separately, the customer needs to make a request in writing to SalemFive along with a copy of the ATM receipt.

In this instance, based on my bank email to SalemFive, they went ahead and credited my account for the 20 baht (58 cents).

The whole thread linked above is worth a re-look, as it's very relative to this ongoing thread.

No, it's not worth being enrolled in Medicare if you are never returning to the US

Unless you're retired military, eligible for Tricare for Life, which will pay for overseas medical care -- but only if you're enrolled in Medicare B.

You have mentioned this options several times in this thread. I am U.S. based, so would you mind sharing what card/bank will reimburse ATM fees worldwide?

See the right hand column, HERE

I use USAA Federal Savings. They're mentioned at this link, but not amount -- it's up to $15/mo.

As someone pointed out in another thread, you might have to collect your ATM receipts and send them to your US bank for reimbursement, as the receipt may be the only place the fee is clearly indicated, i.e., instead of a line item charge, it may be buried in the overall spread as far as your bank can tell.

Well we have a handy little thing in the US and it is called Express Mail and it saves you from having to fly from LA to DC and it is only $14

We also have an even better thing, called 'honorary consulates.' Most don't care where in the States you live (possible exception: Miami and Denver consulates). Most, if not all, issue multiple entry Non Imm O-A visas. All have email and phone numbers posted on the web -- and are glad to get your requests and questions, and will answer quickly (Houston for sure).

LA went to single-entry-only O-A visas a few years back, after (not coincidentally, I'm sure) a lively discussion on this forum. Seems like the 'nearly two year good deal' upset them, being too convenient for the would-be retirees. That they -- and not their rivals, the Immigration Police -- would make more money issuing multi entry visas seemed to be lost in their arrogance.

My sister who live in Austin TX, try to apply for a visa in LA while visiting my parents there - she was told that as she was risiding in Austin TX, she needs to go to the regional consulate that services that area which happens to be Washington DC.

Unless she needed Thai translation services of some sort, she had three better options: the honorary consulates in Houston, Dallas, and El Paso. They all give outstanding service -- but only speak Texan, with a Spanish twist. That your sister lives in Texas -- and LA wouldn't mention any of the 3 consulates......! Incredible.

And, yes, doing business by mail with the honorary consulates is a piece of cake. Turnaround in a week or less, in my past experience.

How is he going to accomplish all of the above in the time remaining given the extended holidays and weekend + he does not have the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and matured.

I'll let you go back and re-read what I posted -- you'll find the answers there.

But, in case you have problems with this, I'll repeat: he only has today (well, *had* today) and tomorrow to get one of two available financial requirements met -- and to go to Immigration. Nearly impossible, yes, as I pointed out. The finger excercise involved was more for the next pogue who comes along, wanting to go from work extension to retirement extension......But the OP does/did have some glimmer of hope when I posted, albeit slight.

As for the 800k in the bank, the aging requirement does not apply when you change a visa (TM86) to a Non Imm O with the intent to get an extension of stay off of this visa. It's only when you apply for that particular extension does the aging process apply. So, assuming Immigration bit, he could have gotten a new Non Imm O visa, complete with a new 90 permission of stay.

My hypothetical about getting a Non Imm O from his Non Imm B, using a TM86, is probably full of holes. Immigration probably/maybe looks at all Non Imm visas as one in the same, thus not recognizing converting one with a suffix of 'B' to another with a suffix of 'O'. I don't know. But if my back was against the wall, I might try. After all, Immigration has been know -- frequently -- to become highly creative......

Q. Do I have to leave Thailand to apply for a Retirement visa ?

i.e. Can I do it in-country prior to the expiry of my work permit so saving the hassle of going back to

the UK.

It might be possible, using the form TM86 "Application for Change of Visa", to change your Non Imm B visa to a Non Imm O visa for the purposes of applying for a retirement extension. Have never seen this done -- normally it's changing from a tourist visa to a Non Imm O. But except for that -- and assuming you meet all the requirements asked of the tourist visa converters -- I'm not sure why this procedure wouldn't work (a non-robotic Immigration officer would be helpful, tho).

You're kinda cutting it close with the financial requirements -- you need the 800k in the bank when you submit the TM86 (although it doesn't need to be aged for converting to the Non Imm O -- only for when you eventually apply for the retirement extension). Maybe an income verification from your embassy would be timelier -- assuming you qualify and have the "proof" the UK embassy usually asks for. Either method, however, would qualify you for a new 90 days in Thailand, so you wouldn't have to leave. During this period, of course, is when you would need to apply for your retirement extension.

Another problem might be the requirement for having 21 days remaining on your permitted to stay period. While your current extension stamp may show more than 21 days remaining, this becomes moot when your work permit expires. Whether the TM86 process would involve showing your work permit, I don't know. But assuming you could get to Immigration with all conversion requirements met before the 20th (which means today or tomorrow), you might skate by, assuming Immigration doesn't catch on to your permit expiring the 20th.

But, be prepared to exit the country for a new visa. Had you started working on this earlier, with at least 21 days of valid work permit remaining, it might have worked. Dealing with all of this with post holiday crowds could lead to drinking problems.

As a tourist due to visit for a month I have the option of using my New Zealand ATm, bringing cash or travellers cheques. Which form would give me the best amount of baht for my dollar. If cash or travellers cheques, where would be the best place to exchange. I have done it before in one of the street booths and the rate seemed ot be pretty good but do any locals know more about charges and detail enough to help me

Probably whatever's more convenient, considering this will be a one or two event deal, so paying a few more satang for convenience is probably worth it. And ATM machines seem to be the most convenient -- and most travel sites now recommend them over travellers checks (particularly if the latter charge for their purchase).

But if your bank has high fees, and especially if you don't plan to max out at the ATM machine (Bangkok Bank will issue 25000 per pop), walking into a bank and exchanging travellers checks at their 'buy' rate could be superior.

But for 'getting by' money upon entry to Thailand, limit what you get at the airport booths, or even hotel.

Thanks again, any idea how long it takes to get a tourist visa? more than one day?.....I'll be flying into Bangkok July 9, 2009

Well, a single tourist visa is good for 3-months (i.e., gives you a 3-month window from issue date to enter Thailand). Assuming July 9th is a 'hard' date for entering Thailand, you could apply now for the visa -- so turnaround time wouldn't be a problem. And unless you live reasonably close to a consulate/embassy, the mail route is the easiest (and takes about a week, at least with honorary consulates). So, how long it takes shouldn't be of any concern.

The new twist with tourist visas is they like to see a bank statement (about $500) and an onward ticket. If this would be a problem, you could ask if exceptions are made... The honorary consulates are the most flexible, have email addresses and phone numbers published on the web, and speak American like natives ('cause they are). I'd check this out.

Or am I ok to just book one-way now and a one-way back later on?

An empahtic 'yes.'

No brainer. Get the Non Imm O multi entry from Hull. Gives you the most flexiblity; easy to get by post; you won't have to worry about getting a visa in Vientiane (weekend, holiday stumbling blocks, etc); and, yeah, AirAsia might not worry about onward tickets -- until the day you plan to travel.

I have 4 months to stay in thailand continuously.

If continuous, it will be illegal, as you'll need to do at least one border run regardless of visa type. Non Imm O will at least let you stretch your continuity to 90 days without worry of border run or extension at Immigration.

'll be covered by visa on arrival until June, then I could get a double entry 60 day tourist visa as I'll be in Vientiane. Then I only need one border run, and I'm covered until mid february.

How'd you figure that?