UKresonant

Private and non-Government UK pensions (Random Number Example) Gross Pension 1 £15k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 2 £10k - UK Tax £2k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 3 £5k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 1 £15k - Thai Tax £1.6k Gross Pension 2 £10k - Thai Tax £1.8k Gross Pension 3 £5k - Thai Tax £1.2k Thai Tax £4.6k - UK Actual tax paid £4k applied as a tax credit. Circa £600 (if DTA article 23 3) applies) Thai tax to Pay. (Updated form from RD anticipated) If your pensions were remitted to Thailand in past years the year after they were paid, no worries. Should work something like that, but the practicalities, and what documents they would require is still mysterious to me I'm not currently Tax Resident in Thailand, and will always have Ties to the UK. If your no longer Tied to the UK, and are out there all the time, maybe could get a NT tax code, and not have tax in the UK deducted?? (but not .Gov Pensions). Government pensions are only Taxed in the UK https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Whole variety of different factors, exchange rates timing, documentation, mood of the Tax assessor, any other income perhaps only allows a close approximation what it maybe. I'm worried about getting caught between the two Tax Systems, as probably like your self, Tax is deducted automatically at source in the UK. Should I have to do a Thai Tax Return in The future, will the dream up documents I don't have, require them to be stamped by an entity that knows nothing about them before acceptance, might not be in Thailand at time of filing. More worried about the practicalities of doing it now, rather than the structure which I know a little more of now.

Sorry but that is not sparking a eureka feeling, any more context? There was someone posting years ago speculating that if there were an equivalent Thai State pension exempt from Thai Tax, the UK State pension could be considered under article 24 of the UK DTA "(1) The nationals of a Contracting State shall not be subjected in the other Contracting State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which nationals of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected." Whilst trying to explain why pensioners were not bothered for tax on their pensions remitted. Would be good if they had an article on state pension but it is just absent (compared with other DTAs) to clarify is or is not, Maybe the negotiators were over in Thailand partying at the time, and that bit was part of the morning agenda....

My Dad has done less than 179days per calendar year for 20years now as belt and braces approache to never be tax resident (& without having to explain anything. More than 179days cumulatively there in Thailand, between 1st Jan 31st-Dec. technically opens you to taxation complication, if you bring in income more than 120k Baht within that year. You would have to count a tax day, as any local time day you are present even for 1 second! Before you could bring in savings or income from the year prior tax free, so you would always be below the tax filing if asked. Plenty ways to avoid the complication with timing, or putting next your initial budget in a Thai bank the year you only visit less than 6 month, then only bring in <THB 120k in the tax year etc. For a stress free visit(s). How it w

E-visa does not show that notation. (Marriage basis) Nor does the previous sticker in the passport type. (Marriage basis) Just checked both versions. Yes, agree, Marriage or Retirement basis is not stated on the Visa either. So maybe MFA keep the basis of issue from RTP

Entering before the 28th the non-O ME (married) should give a further 90 Days entry stamp (did that 2020 but left a 3 or 4 day margin before exp date). But if the non-O marraige visa expires on the 28th it probably is then of no use to apply for an extention of stay for 12 months, only perhaps the 60 day extention. (Not done that though) See what the experts suggest. I would squeeze the last 90 day entry on the ME, maybe do a 60day ext. Then pop out and get a single entry Non-O retirement, and do the retirement extension within that visas validity? I got the impression the COVID, discretion was now fading into history...

Entering before the 28th the non-O ME (married) should give a further 90 Days entry stamp (did that 2020).

I always have the equivelent of 20k baht cash (per person) just in case that 1 in a hundred check happens. No problem on the 98 arrivals so far .....

That could get really strange as how would they figure if it was Dad or myself using a card in Thailand. Before the self check-in terminals at DMK, many years ago, when we both went to the desk to fly to CNX, AirAsia staff there were betting thinking they had predicted a duplicate booking

Being non-resident, that is part of the preparation for being tax resident in the future. I will put all the taxed (in UK) at source pensions in one Bank and one account, so only that is the remittance of income source ( only a small pesky promotional interest, cannot be eliminated but can be transferred out, so it is purely pre-taxed UK income) Hoping that will simplify things and reduce the statement transactions. Gross Pensions- nett of UK tax- lands in the account that is sent to Thailand, remit to Thailand 100% of each of the selected pension(s) to Thailand,then remitted amount + tax credit = original UK gross income. (but will wait and see if emphasis is just a D.T.A. is in force and that it's been taxed already, or they will go for the bone ) Will put all the other income including the not subject to tax, subject to tax but not taxed and interest, else where, providing it remains on the remittance basis, those should not be a feature of anything Thai Side....

I think the tax guide is a very good overview at a snapshot in time, and for example I have become aware of the over 65 and the 50% of pension up to a 100k deduction possibility as they are now within the edge of my radar range. They may of not even registered when I read up on tax 5 years ago as, 65 seemed so far off then. It gives a great check-off list for each individual to consider and reconfirm their own personal situation when considering to file (or Not). I'm watching, probably as a non-resident, for experience reports, this period, and then early 2025

Some trivia..... Just checked the five next trips someone has booked ( of which two of the the outbound flights are the same as ours were, about 6 months ago, and we ended up a few minutes past midnight, on checking the departure stamps, even though we were hurrying as that channel was perhaps closing at midnight). So with Thailand counting any part of the day as a full day for Tax Purposes, and UK using midnight to count the day. Most probably, even 1. O/B Thailand = Yes UK=Yes (Same Calendar Day) Counted both places on 1 day 2. I/B Dep UK=No 1Day, Next Day Arrival Thailand = Yes Not counted 1 day + counted 1 Day 3. O/B Thailand = Yes, Next Day Arrival UK =Yes 1 Day + 1 Day 4. I/B Dep UK=No 1Day, Next Day Arrival Thailand = Yes Not counted 1 day + counted 1 Day 5. O/B Thailand = Yes UK=Yes (Same Calendar Day) Counted both places on 1 day. So on the two counting conventions; of 8 dates, Thailand 5 days, UK 3 days, Nowhere 2 days (UK departures), counted for Tax presence. 5 / 3 to Thailand. (if that elite article is correct https://www.siam-legal.com/thai-elite-visa/legal-applications-on-the-new-thai-tax-law-and-thailand-elite-visa-holders/ ) Random chance of bookings could catch someone out, if pushing the 179 days tax non-residence to the edge [I remember Going through DMK about twenty years ago, and one of our family group got a little stamp in their passport, presumably overstay of 20mins, at the other desk. No one else got one we were all trying to get to the gate for the departure. But not knowing we had taken the 29 and a half days in time to be under 30 Days! oops, but only one jobsworth on duty]

Unfortunately they arr not doing the multi-non O from London, again and I too don't think I'm compatible with their 12 month extention system, perhaps only the 60 day one. Dad has been doing 3 x 59day, equally spaced trips for a long long time now carefully keeping under the 180 day tax residence trigger point. When ask why he did not consider buying a place and spending more time there, his answer is " it would become routine". He has never had any entry problems ever (touch wood). I Can appreciate the Medical aspect. You probably did just catch the guy on a bad day. I remember when back in the 90's 2nd trip to Thailand Family had flown ahead, meeting them in a guest house / Cafe near the old airport DMK. Three police, one had a skinful, and that one came over to my table, ranted at me, he was thinking about drawing his 9mm perhaps. But his two colleagues dragged him back to their table. He was having a bad day about something! (It does need some confidence to detach from the NHS, and the in between status can be difficult to arrange)

They seem to be suggesting the day counts for Tax they way immigration count, any second in the local time calendar day as a full day, rather than the at the midnight end of the day convention ... + 1 tax days for the 21:00 flight +2 tax days if its overbooked and they put you on the 02:00hrs outbound...

Just pick up a new 90 Day Single entry non-O visa when your back in home country? and do the extension of stay once your back...

Yes going with one management group is probably not a good idea. The capital value volatility does not worry me to much, as long as the dividend and it's growth are reasonably consistent. The two portfolios I'm been reviewing over the last 6 months are part of my minority Pension income stream, so once in a nearly hands off medium to low fee portfolio, the smoothed dividends and their growth are that bit of the (hopefully) well indexed pension group. I've heard it said that there was a lot of selection read across on funds and trusts under Ballie Gifford, but I've not had any incidents with them, quite good actually. Scottish American has has been ok over two years, when I caught it at an abnormal discount on the Day, and I also have one OEIC with them. Their global discovery fund did massively well into Covid but then fell away massively, kinda like SM for perhaps other reasons. There was only one IT I had with another Group, that I got caught with a failure within their selection, not a bad trust, but in hindsight bad entry timing. I will move onto more adventurous investment considerations later. I'll let the wife do all the more adventurous trading out Thailand for now, she is inclined more towards US equities and ETF's rather than my cantering UK, Japan and global Trust / ETF selections

I still slightly prefer Investment Trusts over ETFs with their track record and months of dividend cover held within the Trust. https://www.theaic.co.uk/income-finder/dividend-heroes I don't pick from this list, but it's re-assuring that quite a few are on it or in the next Gen section! (income & growth theme)

90 days in 6 months visa exempt was something they were doing years ago, just dredged it up again probably. Surprised it has caused a problem for you, as it was intended to deter people living there on visa exempts.

I think it was about, roughly the second half of 2019 the started asking for the actual boarding pass, just occasionally asked for the e ticket before that, but only shown as a requirement in the immigration hall, and almost everyone patted there pockets or digging in there bag to find their one.

My understanding is they would not be taxable the problem may be what records they may ask for if queried on the remittances, perhaps get mum to put "GIFTTO .." in the transfer record perhaps, isolate the Inherited funds, maybe even pay to a different account in Thailand. Not items for filing on the return unless the anticipated new return form, has and explanation section for non-assessable remittance, which is very doubtful. (Such cash gifts into the UK would not be taxable for income tax purposes, based on reading HMRC community blog examples, between countries). p.s. Just an opinion on what reading I have done

That was the old way which was discontinued effective 1st Jan 2024. e.g. 2019 I practiced doing monthly transfers via SWIFT, I would send the net value of on of my pensions, month for month from the year before. no complication. The amount of Tax free money from 2017/2018 UK tax year, (non-resident 2018 <180 Days) if brought in 2019 would not be applicable for Tax in Thailand. Now its gone to the other extreme, everything is potentially taxable going forward have to prove it was savings from before 2024, or isolate it with a tax paid record for remitting in future years. It just makes things so potentially complicated for me going forward. I have never been full time in Thailand, so don't want to get caught between the two tax systems, if there for say 270 days, all my income is subject to Tax and taxed in the UK.

See item 26 of the guide on the 1st page, probably very little tax to pay, if over 65 (I'm just wondering as well if there is some exemption for the UK state pension, relative to the Thai state pension if that is also not taxed, implied by by Article 24 of the UK-TH DTA, but will read more later)

I still hope for that. The concern over taxes will likely make many be more frugal on the expenditure plans in Thailand for now, with a slight offset of VAT spend for a wee while, of course there will still be a multitude out there that are oblivious to these changes (that have not read your very useful guide). RD were not much interested in retirees before, so not sure, fingers crossed. There is still a mountain of old info on the web, and likely will be there for a while. p.s. Dad has been conforming to the 179 days or less routine for about 2 decades now ( apart from one flight change I think) . His December January trip is the only one where he is not wasting much of his UK Golf membership, because of the weather.

If they tax transfers like that they will destroy the place, that would only be an option at about perhaps 0.1 or even max 0.25% (like the banks charge as a deposit fee) instead of the 300 Baht tourist Tax perhaps. In most cases it's probably safer to be non-resident when doing large transactions anywhere. It was my view in 2018 and still is, (from a UK perspective).

I think you would have to have a plausible amount coming in to live on , or already in, as a base to field the question and not be suspect of working in Thailand with no work permit (unless you work there anyway of course). Other than that it would seem to be very useful.

If they have closed your account already no need to give them the info . If they have not closed the account they need the info to record and allow share your account balance at 31st December with Thailand RD if requested so they are CRS compliant, but you have to declare Thai Tax residence to Barclays for that to happen I think.