WinnieTheKhwai

Just wait until they legalize gambling,then you will see what Pattaya is aiming for.

Is this in the works?

Not really, due to legal constraints. Gambling is illegal in Thailand, and it's also very much against Bhuddhist doctrine. On the other hand, it's also VERY popular. Past governments have expressed the intention to allow regulated casinos in some places to prevent money leaking to casinos elsewhere in the region, sometimes JUST over the border from Thailand.

Now, the guys in that past government seem a considerable way from getting back into power, so I wouldn't hold my breath. It'll be a fairly big struggle to get a casino to open, but IF it can be done then Pattaya is a very likely candidate. Possibly Chiang Mai as well; basically anywhere where tourism needs a boost.

A reason for picking Pattaya first could be that it's impossible to fuc_k it up any further no matter what. It may however significantly affect the demographic of tourists in Pattaya; think LOADS more visitors from Bangkok, China, etc.

I'm neither a judge nor a jury, something I'm sure most here seriously appreciate. I'm on a discussion forum to take part in a discussion. Sorry if my labeling of the nutters and criminals on both sides doesn't meet your consistency standards. Who is or isn't a criminal will be up to the courts, thankfully. I'm expressing the opinion that neither Suthep (Kasit, etc.) nor Seh Daeng (Jatuporn, etc.) are helping the situation. Abhisit for one IS helping the situation, I've made that clear numerous times as well, yet nobody ever seems to pick up on that.

>>>> enabling Thais without ID cards to get them without bribes (i.e. Hill Tribe people)

>>>> Restricting access to harmful videos and video games. Cleaning up the sorry state of TV programming. Those things are immensely influential (in bad ways) to the youth of Thailand, and are factors in why there are several thousand dumb thugs taking over downtown Bkk.

Hill tribe people are not Thais, most of them are stateless. All Thai can get their ID cards without having to pay bribes.

That's like saying Apache are not Americans, or Amazon natives are not Brazilian. Everyone deserves to be a citizen of somewhere. Hundreds of thousands of hill tribers who were born and whose parent's were born and bred within Thailand's borders are denied citizenship.

I agree with you, but the comparison is awkward because many hill tribe people are relatively recent arrivals from Burma and China, whereas Native Americans go back thousands of years.

Wow. I guess nobody has a response to that one.

Thanks again guys I think I will check out Mr T taxi. Also can anyone receommend a reasonable hotel for a night in Pattaya and does anyone know what Soi Buakhao is like?

Soi Buakhao is... lively. It's got tons of cheapo apartment buildings, little shops and stores, two markets, street food, etc. Many of Pattaya's tourist industry workers live there, and there's more and more nightlife moving there as well. So you get this weird mix of street food stalls, barber shops, internet cafes, a ladyboy go-go bar/brothel, some 500-600 baht range hotels, massage & spa shops, suddenly a Western pub or restaurant that looks like it wants to be all up-market with fancy interior, lighting & prices, etc.

It's very low class obviously, it's where the dregs get their cheapo hotels, but... in a way that's also an attraction. It looks in absolutely no way like any tourist brochure ever drawn up of Thailand, yet it's unmistakenly 'Thai' in so many ways. Traffic can be completely insane, I'd imagine there are multiple accidents involving motorbikes there every day. I once took a motorcycle taxi the full stretch of it, that was an experience. I may stay there myself though when my usual picks along Second Road are full. If you prefer to stay outside of the eye of the storm that is Pattaya then you can also consider Jomtien or Naklua.

Soi Bua Khao is when you say "Screw the beach, I'm here for the hard core Pattaya life." From your message though I take it you're only staying a single night? In that case I think you can do better, spend a tad more and be near-ish to a beach if only for the view and general ambiance. Maybe even splurge; some nice big 4 star hotels with sea views can be booked around 2000 baht these days. Pattaya tends to look far less of a pit when you splurge.

On getting to Patters from the airport, note that Bell Travel (www.belltravelservice.com) as well as some other companies run a bus directly from the main terminal at the airport, so no need to take a shuttle bus to the airport bus station. I typically take it when my arrival time is close to one of the departures. If not, then taxi is a good option. Even the bus now only takes 1 hour 15 minutes, if you take a taxi then depening on his driving style he may do it in an hour flat.

I typically only take buses from the Airport (which is hyper fast), but when in downtown Bangkok then consider taking the bus from Mo Chit, specifically the Motorway bus. Also run by Roong Ruang, with departures also every 20-30 minutes.

You got to wonder why Ekamai continues to live on, even though it's clearly past it's expiry date and in a very congested area. Unless I'm basically next door to it I pick Mo Chit.

And take pictures!

Bathtubs by the way are a blessing, especially also in the cool season, when equipped with a powerful enough water heater.

At least we're seeing proper seasons this year in Chiang Mai.. First cold enough that some of the shower units around the house couldn't really cope, now so hot that water comes out warmer than it did with the electric shower on full blast in the cold season!

This is a Jade Plant

Mine doesn't look anything like this, and in fact is just dying. I tried twice.

Being a succulent, it should like hot & dry conditions; I thought I killed my first one with too much water. However now in the hot season, my second one is dying as well.

Does anyone have success with these?

[NB: I posted this earlier in the Pets & plants sub-forum without much luck. ]

He's stepping down in September. Labour came second in the election. Brown is, at this moment, still the sitting Prime Minister due to a 'hung' Parliament. and there is a chance (albeit a very slim one) that he will remain as Prime Minister until the Labour Party conference in September.

Can't compare Britain with Thailand. For Britain to be comparable to Thailand, the following would need to happen:

The Conservatives, seeing they'd never get back into power (this analogy will work better during the Tony Blair years), decide to boycott the election! And due to a technicality in the election laws, this results in a state of limbo, with the Blair caretaker government still in place, but no replacement parliament in sight. Now the British Army moves in and commits a coup d'etat while Tony Blair is away at the UN. HM Queen Elizabeth II recognizes the new military junta government, which, in the eyes of the Conservatives at least, makes it perfectly legitimate, and they happily join in rewriting (or in the case of Britain: writing) a constitution that's more favourable to their chances of getting elected even though it generally weakens the power of elected government. It even includes a large number of non-elected, appointed members to the House of Lords! (oh..wait.. )

Lo and behold, when elections are finally held, they DONT win again and Blairs proxy, Mr. Brown is elected PM!! Oh No!! Protests of Conservative sympathizers happen, taking over Heathrow Airport, paralizing the country. Finally the Judiciary sends Gordon Brown home, on charges of hosting a cooking show on BBC 2. Conservatives of course STILL don't have an actual majority anywhere, so they go talk to some Labour back-benchers from Wales and basically promise them the sun and the moon. Lo and behold, they break away and join a coalition with the Conservative party!! Now they are finally able to form a government, and, in the eyes of the Conservatives at least, this is perfectly legitimate and they feel they have a legal mandate. ( Which is probably true. Still, the people who voted for those guys thinking they'd get Tony Blair back, aren't happy. )

Sorry if I fast forwarded through some parts, but you see the overall picture. Good night.

^ Yet again, not correct. The position of many democracies [the US is different] is that the military act within an advise and consent structure. That is to say, ultimately the military may endeavour to decline an operational request from the government, if they view it is outside their sphere of competence.

Decline a request is one thing, overthrowing the (caretaker) government and shredding the constitution is quite another! Perhaps someone else can comment, but I'm pretty sure that this doesn't happen in stable democracies; in stable democracies, the government tells the army what to do, not the other way around! (right?)

I admit I had to look up 'knave'.

Ok, off to bed.

The Thai statistic says a Thai woman now gives 1.65 children. Statistic. Your anecdote is not a statistic.

Total fertility: 1.65 children born/woman (2009 est.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_...Total_fertility

This varies within sub-statum. I made a woman pregnant 9 times - and I'm a bi-sexual.

Who are you replying to?

and what does 1.65 children born/woman (2009 est.) mean?

It certainly does not mean that every Thai woman had 1.65 children in 2009 on average.

I would imagine that it means something like the average amount of children born by women above childbearing age./ This in itself means nothing as a lot of the women in this statistic will still have many childbearing years ahead of them.

Right, but you could just go look up what birth rate means and how it's calculated.

This is one part in the article that is likely accurate: Thailand's birth rate is worryingly low. The author of the article may have used it to show that Thailand is similar to First World Western countries (The birth rate in the USA is actually higher than Thailand right now)

I'm not sure why this is. It's probably a concern for the future, because in any other aspect Thailand is most definitely NOT on par with First World countries. It may be an indication of the perceived burden that children represent on the family budget when they go do school and university.. Perhaps, 20 years ago, when nobody (ok: 'nobody') from a poor background got into university, you could have as many kids as possible, it'd just add the cost for some extra sticky rice, and by the time the fifth sibling came along, the first one was nearly becoming productive and helping out the family.

These days though, ask young people anywhere how many brothers and sisters they have, or how many children. Usually the answer is 1, if that.

The options tend to be 'Savings' and 'Current'. I typically hit 'Savings', but as per the above, I don't think it matters much with an international ATM card.

If she does it in Thai then it'll be the above options in Thai.

Then after that she has to pick 'withdrawal' because the standard amounts only go up to 10,000. So best to type the withdrawal amount manually and make it 20K.

Are you guys entirely sober? I think I responded genuinely, and disregarded the name-calling coming my way. Please go re-read what I wrote in the morning. (Or early afternoon, as it may be.)

I pride myself in having friends both in the Red and (somewhat) Yellow leaning camps. Both have good viewpoints to offer. I'm married to a person who voted Democrat all her life (except right after the coup), and will do so again in the next elections whenever they will be held.

But I guess it's easier to just label people terrorists.. It's VERY '10 years ago', though.

If this was in reply to my post you may want to read it again.

Thanks! Aimed primarily at A-Traveler of course.

Are you guys entirely sober? I think I responded genuinely, and disregarded the name-calling coming my way. Please go re-read what I wrote in the morning. (Or early afternoon, as it may be.)

I pride myself in having friends both in the Red and (somewhat) Yellow leaning camps. Both have good viewpoints to offer. I'm married to a person who voted Democrat all her life (except right after the coup), and will do so again in the next elections whenever they will be held.

But I guess it's easier to just label people terrorists like a broken record. A very '10-years-ago' attitude though, IMHO.

"Naive" is really not the word for a statement like this. 'Sad' is more like it. So, when do you think it is all going to end? What will be the NEXT demand?

^ Maybe you don't actually talk to people who like(d) the Reds and/or vote Phua Thai? That would explain why you label the acknowledgement of their aspirations as 'sad'..

When do I think it's all going to end... . I SERIOUSLY hope that enough of the Red Leadership will accept Mr. Abhisits very reasonable offer. Or at the very least Mr. Abhsisit has the opportunity to peel off some of the more reasonable guys in the Red leadership, offer them amnesty, etc. At that time the protest may still disintegrate, or if it does not, then there's not much else to do but send in the army right.

Newsflash (apparently!) : In democracies, government is supposed to have control of the army.

It's better that way, as Abhisit is finding out right now.

Winnie you are a fool of breathtaking proportions. You do not have the faintest idea what you typing about. You claim that UDD was formed to to apply pressure against the existing structure, however, as is your style you forget actions by Rak Chiang Mai 51, how do you reconcile the death of Terdsak Jiamkitwattana's father, Setha, by a mob, for daring to attempt to drive through the cordon around the radio station.

Do you even remember these things?

Probably not, because they don't play into your fantasy of the noble UDD [Reds] somehow striving heroically to free themselves, as opposed to the reality of being placed into a even more reprehensible position once the dust settles. The people running the show, especially at the local level are only interested in ensuring that their ability to interdict money is undiminished. There is not one iota of politics in this scenario, no Marie Antoinette moment, it is all about money. nothing more nothing less.

Clearly if elements commit crimes they need to be (and are currently) prosecuted. I don't fall into the trap however of dismissing genuine sentiments every time a nutter like Seh Daeng does or says something preposterous.

I have enough Red (or Red symphetizing) friends to know that their points of view are genuine, and not based on money handouts. There's a lot of slander going on of these people, there's actually so much contempt for rural people around in general that some 'educated' urbanites genuinely cannot get it into their heads than that it's anyhting other than money, and then feel the need to label them buffalos, dog eaters (earlier today on this forum) and worse.

There is no side made up entirely of angels, and no side made up entirely of devils. You got to listen to arguments and not get caught up in propaganda.

If it's any consolation, I get shot to bits on red leaning places on the Internet just the same. When I say things like '<deleted> guys, you wanted elections, you got elections, what's with the Suthep-fetish?'. I have the strong impression that there's no agreement any longer among the Red leadership. And I very much sympathize with those seeking reconciliation and compromise. An issue may be though that among all Red supporting people, the absolute most radical hard core are at the protest site; some of those just seem point-blank eager to die. And those are the guys and girls expected to now make up with Abhisit, which is proving tough, very unfortunately.

As for ignoring people, I had Jingthing on ignore for a while, but then decided that if I wanted to ignore opposing points of view then a discussion forum isn't really the place to do it. And he occasionally makes sense on non-Thai-politics topics.

Excellent response. Bit more than it deserved actually.

I actually wonder about all the angst about Sato in general.. It's fermented, making it similar to beer and wine I suppose. Where it can get dangerous is with distilled liquor, the home made lao khao / corn liquor, etc.

And with Sato, it's remarkable that something made out of old rice can end up tasting so fresh, sweet & happy.

There are a few misconceptions in the original article. First, although most rural folks own the land under their modest homes, a large percentage, sometimes up to 50% in any one tambon, rent their padi land. Second most rural folks are greatly underemployed. Wages in many rural regions for casual labor remain at just over 100 baat per day. Although true poverty is not as common as it once was, it still exists throughout Isaan and up in the minority villages up north. But most families, despite having their cell phones, satellite TVS, and electric fans inside their modest homes, are always just one small misfortune away, from going back into a state of poverty. One of my brother-in-laws has one of the largest homes in his village although due to a combination of poor decision making, less than robust health, and debt, now lives in a big empty shell. The largest house in the village is now domicile to one of the poorest residents of the village.

The comparisons to cohorts in North America is laughable. No carpenter in the US would want to be living on the edge of poverty that a rural carpenter in Thailand exists upon on a daily basis. Rural Thai carpenters do have a skill, but most often are greatly underemployed, and in fact tend to work in carpentry only a few months out of the year at best. And comparing farmers, please spare me. There are few enough true farmers left in in the US apart from the large corporate farmers who are contracted out by the few large processors such as ADM, and who survive only because of the government subsidies (US farmers live a socialist dream yet vote Republican, so don't think that Thai farmers supporting a megalomaniac like Thaksin is all that strange) due to the strange political structure in the US which gives the vast Midwest farmlands unwarranted over representation in the US Senate.

The writer of the piece is clearly observing rural Thailand from the outside with little real understanding of life in the villages. One can easily define unemployment in a manner that leads to a low number, but fails to capture the reality of endemic underemployment. The author finds other statistics to build up his/her neo-sahib views of the rural class (oh my, I could not find me a plumber), but as one who has spent many a year in the rural north, I find little of his tone to ring true.

VERY well said!!

Ah, ML is back.. Oh joy.

5 seconds is pretty good. With sopcast et all it can be up to a minute!

Sounds like freedom fighters to me

What exactly are they fighting to be free from?

* Censorship

* Military/Establishment influence in politics

* "Managed" democracy in general

* A constitution cooked up by the military/establishment

* Being arrested for writing the wrong things on Facebook.

The reds behave like little children. Weeks of firebrand speeches, wielding weapons, and then when the confrontation happens it's all "WAH! Look what they did to us!!"

They don't seem very concerned about people killed/injured in grenade attacks. Anyone else notice how none of these attacks were aimed at reds?

Or maybe you just missed the statements, because some erm.. mainstream.. newspapers didn't publish them but instead chose to grandstand hatred on the front pages. That's fair.

Also, police were targeted at least once. That's pretty much aimed at (perceived) reds.

I'm impressed with the shrewdness of the PM:

I can't decide if I'm impressed with his patience, or appalled by his ineffectiveness. I think better of him since the road map proposal though, that was VERY reasonable.

I'm wondering if Issan will now have regular terrorist acts, like the southeast.

To achieve what?

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?