spidermike007

IMO in the mid-term (5 years or so) the following is likely to happen:

The garish in your face establishments are in the crosshairs. The shops closed last week on Soi 7/1 are an example of that.

The suspected underage and trafficking shops are in the crosshairs. AS THEY SHOULD BE. The recent Rachada Road raids are an example of that.

The screws will be tightened on the silver pole and floorshow venues. Slowly so everyone will have time to adjust to the new economic normal. Farang owned and operated businesses will be top of the list of course.

Neon will be out of fashion. Marketing will be curtailed. Websites will be plain vanilla. What some call underground will still really be quite visible to those who are looking for it.

The organized nightlife clusters will be tamped down on to the point of financial extinction. The property will be put to a higher commercial use. The reborn will be smaller and scattered.

Opportunities for horizontal mingling will still exist. Ladies will still be about on the streets. Bars and disco's will still attract the usual following. Discrete massage shops will still offer all manor of happy happy. The internet will become more important as a primary point of introduction.

More like the pay-for-play scene around the planet really.

SL

You hit the nail on the head, I have been watching this slow process for the past 10 years when I visit Patong, Phuket.

I wouldn't be giving her the credit, like I said, its been in the pipeline for a while now, whether its good for Thailand with all those families who already are hungry with mouths to feed is another question, that is unless the government is going to step up and provide some kind of welfare system for their losses, through the corruption fund ? I am all for shutting down places that use girls that are under aged and trafficked.

I suppose at the end of the day, you will have the disco's to pick up the girls/ladyboys if your so inclined, no ridiculous bar fines of 1,000 THB to make you go elsewhere either....never been one to throw the $ when I know I don't have too, leave that for the mugs.....lol

I also tend to agree. I think in general the entire industry has been on the downturn for the past decade. It is especially apparent in Samui or in Phuket. Chiang Mai is taking it's last gasps of air, when it comes to the little bit that it offered. Pattaya, Bangkok, and Hua Hin still seem to be doing ok, or at least holding their own. These high profile shutdowns of the soapies mean very little. Like you said, they are very conspicuous. They will never shut it down altogether. It will just go underground, and they will succeed in developing a repressed society like in the US. A friend of mine, who managed the largest foundation in Thailand, devoted to caring for HIV positive people (generally without means to care for themselves) for 10 years, and speaks fluent Thai, told me it is well known in the NGO community that the sex industry in the US is far larger than in Thailand. It is so far underground, that few Americans that I speak with have any idea. They laugh when I tell them that. And she also told me the current figure of the amount of people directly employed by the industry is closer to 800,000 here, not the silly number of 120,000, which is fabulously inaccurate. But, it is underground, the result of failed policy, prurient, moralistic, false religion, preachy petty doctrine, which criminalizes sex, those that offer it, and those that support it. The very fact that a man can be arrested for a happy ending massage, and become a life long sex offender as a result, speaks volumes about how broken a society America has become, and how repressed it's people are. As an American, I can tell you that desire for the appearance of purity exists only on the very surface. There is nothing to it. It is all false, and it is all coming from entirely the wrong and misguided place. And it has accomplished nothing but drive it underground. It has not decreased the desire one iota.

Same will happen here. Of course the tourism minister does not know this, as she has not studied the problem, nor does she have the vision, intellectual power, policy making ability, experience, or wisdom to see what the result of her disastrous efforts to stamp out this industry are going to have on her country, and her people. She has no idea what she is doing. Not a clue. And neither does the little man. Clueless once again.

Of course, we all know it will not disappear, regardless of how misguided this current tourism minister is. She will be gone soon enough, and for some of us that cannot happen fast enough. Her background was completely, and utterly inappropriate for the portfolio position of tourism and sports minister. She could not possibly be more out of her element. As usual, with the little man, she was not picked for her talent in the tourism area. No merit in his administration is ever considered. Her studies and experience are as follows:

Fine Arts, Wellesley College, US; degree in Architecture, Rhode Island School of Design, US. Former Assistant to Project Manager, MahBoonKrong Center Co., for the interior design of the largest shopping complex in Bangkok. Joined Toshiba Thailand Co. as Advertising Manager; successive promotions leading up to post as Chairperson. These are not qualifications to lead the country into a new era of tourism, and certainly not the proper qualification to lead the sports ministry. Just the fact that the two departments are combined shows such a dramatic lack of wisdom, vision, and clarity of mission.

For her to even hint that they are looking at high quality tourists is beyond disingenuous. At a time when they have boosted the Chinese tourism up to 35% of the nation's total, when they are one of the lowest quality tourists to be found anywhere on the planet (in terms of spending per person) she has demonstrated, and continues to demonstrate her complete incompetence, at her job. I believe this swing toward the Chinese tourists will go down in history, as one of the greatest blunders of the Thai tourism industry. They cannot be considered a substitute for western tourists, who spend far more per day, than these tours, who book hotels at perhaps 40% of the rack rate, require massive discounts in restaurants, and do not stimulate the overall economy. Her utter lack of vision when it comes to developing the market is becoming legendary.

As for her sports ministry position. What can one say? She does not have her hands full enough as it is? Or is this just a way of the government telling all the nation's athletes, you just do not matter. You are not significant for us to devote a department to you. We could not find someone with a background in sports. We found a fine arts graduate, who has a small amount of design experience. You just do not matter. Sorry. We had to combine the departments to save some money.

After working in the hospitality industry here in Thailand for years, it seems to me that many people in this forum are sadly mistaken about the state of the tourism industry over here.

In all of the hotels I've worked at (4-5 stars), 90% of the clientele are couples and families. Only 10% are single male travelers. Those 90% also tend to spend a lot more on average than the other 10%, at least within the confines of the hotel (spa, food and beverage, excursions, etc...).

The same is true on the other end of the spectrum, in very cheap guesthouses. Those tend to cater mostly to groups of young people or young singles who typically can find sex without having to pay for it and mostly tend to hookup with other foreign travelers anyway.

That leaves the 2-3stars hotels, which are where most single males stay. In such hotels located in tourist destinations, it's about a 50%/50% ratio, with 50% groups and families and 50% single 30y+ men. I sincerely doubt, however, that travelers who can't spend more than 1,500 to 2,000 baht/night for accommodation spend a considerable amount of money while they are outside their hotel.

Edit: Those ratios apply to places where I actually have hands-on experience (BKK, Phuket and Samui). Pattaya, on the other hand, probably has a much higher single men ratio, but that's only one town out of about ten major tourist hotspots in Thailand.

I completely disagree with alot of what you said. I just do not think you have the perspective on this. You are looking at it from high end hotel perspective. Very few single men stay in hotels like this. Personally, I stay in very nice 4 star hotels in Bangkok, in the 1700 to 2000 baht range. No need to spend any more than that, when you can get a hotel like the Davis or the Dawin, for that kind of money. Comfortable enough. Families and couples tend to spend more. I have many friends who visit, or live here, and they spend that same 2000 per night on a hotel, and then go out and spend 2,300 on a 90 minute session in a fancy massage place, without a second thought. Sometimes twice a day! Plus meals, drinks, etc. That is alot of cash being pumped into the local economy. So your doubts about men who spend 2000 baht on a hotel having the money to spend a considerable amount of money while outside the hotel is utterly groundless, and completely wrong. They are the ones who are supporting this industry. And they are the ones who will probably never return to Thailand, should the "industry" disappear. I am referring to both Bangkok and Samui, places where I have a great deal of experience.

Sorry boys , but I don't think one of you would want to see your sister, daughter, girlfriend on the streets ? I have no answers to this huge problem, and I think it's all a bit too late anyway to do much about it. If there had been an obligation to educate Thai kids in school , they in turn , would have their children educated. This not being the case has thrown millions of kids into brothels and bars, and turned young men into thugs, transvestism and violence. It's evidence can be seen every day on the streets of all tourist Venus, cities, and is now hitting the smaller quieter towns of the north. We've all seen the nice girl from reception, or at the 7/11 ending up selling herself for money she never dreamed of making. It's all about money nowadays. The girls all want to shop in the fancy stores and buy the latest fashion bags, which she / he will never earning normal wages. The manicure shop I use once a month is full to the top of these young Thai girls, having manicures and pedicures , extensions and all the rest, spending 1500 baht in an hour or two ! I do not mean, as some will say, I have this right and they don't !!! Just that in one busy shop doing hundreds of girls a day, 90 per cent are street/ bar girls. Have a look in any mall ! The boys/ men want the same, clothes, cars and big bikes, money to drink and smoke. So, what can the government do about all this, I have no answer.

Only a small part of this problem is about education. When you invest four years of your life for a degree, and graduate with the ability to only increase your wages by 3,000-5,000 baht per month, something is wrong. It is the elite, the government, and perhaps the Japanese manufacturers (there are over 7,000 Japanese companies working in Thailand today) who have insisted that wages be kept artificially low, for all of this time, and done little to improve the lot of the workers. It creates a difficult situation for the average Thai. Work 60 hours a week, or longer, for 8,000 to 12,000 baht per month. Get a four year degree, and hopefully you can increase your pay to 15,000 per month, and perhaps work 5-10 hours per week less. Not what I would describe as an amazing choice.

Great Idea, does she realize most of the girls send a lot of the money they earn, back to their families and kids in Issan for them to survive..

She will put a huge area of Thailand into more poverty than it already is....

Plus Thailand is no different than most countries in the world, they all have a sex industry, they just may not be as open as it is here...

What's that saying "Sex is the oldest profession in the world" and it is alive and well in Thailand.. good on you girls, love you all !!!

You are giving her way too much credit. What you are suggesting is forethought, planning, vision, and imagination. Impossible.

It is simply impossible to do , since it is part of the culture . Now they are pointing at the massage parlors like Emmanuelle etc... were the vast majority of costumers is Asian . Next will probably be gogo bars since the connection there is obvious .What is next ... bars and disco's ? You can close the 1st 2 as of massage and gogos but bars and disco's are just nightlife . All the working peolple will move there will will draw the tourists and Thais over there . It is a simple shift in places , nothing more . As long as you do have the pleople wanting to work in it , and you have people wanting to pay for it , it will never go away .

Do not overestimate the role of sex tourism also Probably in some places like Pattaya it is huge impact but in general , the impact will be a lot less . Thailand has got a lot more then only tourism

If however she shut's down the bars and disco's alltogether , the impact will be huge , Nowhere to have a beer will draw even the rich tourist with families ( where she is aiming for ) far away to any other place ( hey even the middle east is an option then .... ) .

The one thing the punters can count on, is that the little man, and virtually his entire incompetent administration has very poor concentration, and almost no follow up. So, more than likely this will dissipate as with all his other plans, proposals, ideas, hair brained schemes, improvements, crackdowns, lies, promises, steps to move the country forward, and "innovations".

"Sprawling" as if implying this is a recent and rapidly spreading outbreak? It is an aspect of Thai culture as ingrained and totally normal and accepted as tuk-tuks, temples and rice farms. It's not viewed as sinful or shameful or degrading to women. In fact, a large part of Issan's economy relies on working girls sending big money back to mom and dad on the farm. While it exists here to some small extent, Thai prostitution seldom involves enslavement, human trafficing or forced drug dependence. I't also is, for better or worse one of the key attractions of Thailand for eestern tourists.

Wrong on every point, it is regarded as shameful, it' s the money that's not, and it is not a mainstay of Issan economy however much the users of prostitutes like to fantasize that it is, thus justifying their paying for sex.

I tend to disagree. Yes, it may be considered shameful, when talked about in the open. But, there seems to be a ridiculously permissive attitude in Issan, regarding their women working in the sex trade. The whole notion that the girls, when they grow up will be sending money back home, is so antiquated and outdated. And what do you think the parents really believe is happening, when the daughter starts sending 15,000 or 20,000 baht per month home? She found a restaurant that has really big tippers? She found the highest paying factory job in the country?

I believe they know what is going on, but turn the other way, in order to take advantage of the lifestyle. Little do they know the details of what their sweet, lovely daughter is having to do on a daily basis, to get that cash.

I seriously doubt the tourism minister came up with this idea. I am fairly certain where it came from. The US government. Only they are stupid, prurient, prudish, churlish, falsely moral, falsely puritanical, preachy, disingenuous, and non visionary enough to come up with policy like this. It is probably through the long arm of the American NGO's, those horrific organizations that go around the world pushing the US political agenda, posing as do gooder organizations, and charitable groups. There is also a small chance that there is come pressure from China. 35% of all tourists within Thailand now are Chinese. And they do not partake of much of this. The government here is doing a good job of deluding themselves into thinking the growing Chinese tourism, is a good thing for the Thai economy. It is anything but. They are very, very low quality tourists, who do not spend much money, anywhere. Not a substitute for the far superior (in terms of spending power) western tourists, that they are losing in droves.

In the US it is almost against the law to enjoy sex. For that matter, to enjoy anything. So, it stands to reason that this house of fools would want the world to be subject to the degree of silliness, and intolerance that Americans are subject to. And as much as they try to make it appear that they just don't care, my guess is that the Thai government just cannot say no to the aid, and the promises.

Hopefully, like nearly all the policies coming from the little man, this will blow over too, and be forgotten very soon. This is a terrible idea.

What the prince is really saying, and possibly thinking is:

They are man children. They are some of the least secure men on earth. They have absolutely zero faith and trust in their women. They are really small men, with no regard for women, and frankly, little regard for ourselves. If our women show their beautiful faces to the world, then every man will want them. And if a man wants them, who knows what these women are capable of. It appears they determined that left to their own devices, their women are not capable of fidelity. Most of that nation is absolutely locked in the 12th century, and refuse to budge. Keep the women in the house, in the kitchen, or the bedroom. Let them out only with another man, who will make sure she is not getting busy with friends or strangers.

Recently a member of the religious police, There is a new hero in SA named Ammed Qassim al Ghamdi, and he is speaking out about how out of control his government is, and how they have prevented the word of the Prophet.

For years, Mr. Ghamdi stuck with the program and was eventually put in charge of the Commission for the region of Mecca, Islam’s holiest city. Then he had a reckoning and began to question the rules. So he turned to the Quran and the stories of the Prophet Muhammad and his companions, considered the exemplars of Islamic conduct. What he found was striking and life altering: There had been plenty of mixing among the first generation of Muslims, and no one had seemed to mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-islam-wahhabism-religious-police.html?_r=0

They are a shameful nation. If it were not for their oil, they would mean nothing to the world. No significance whatsoever, beyond their continued financial support for terror, worldwide. Personally, I do not like fracking, and the costs to the communities where it is taking place. But, if that is what it takes to wean ourselves off of these worms, than it is a good thing.

Another result of disastrous Obama foreign policy. He does not seem to be able to fight his way out of a paper bag, when it comes to foreign policy. Everything he touches turns to crap. Granted, the US in general has had horrific foreign policy for the past couple of decades. Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan, Algeria, not to mention our policies with regard to rogue and out of control nations like Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan.

We are now completely beaten, so why not talk to the Russians? if anything, our policy seems to have made Assad more powerful.

I wonder that standards they used to define trustworthy. I certainly do not trust the US govt. But, I do not trust the little man either, one iota. Not only does he have alot of silly and dogmatic ideas, but he is incompetent to boot. At least the US has a semblance of competency within the judicial system. Not one iota of justice here. And at least the US has competent (though certainly overreaching to an extreme degree) law authority. Not a dog and pony show, or laurel and hardy, like they have here. At least.

This is what is known in other parts of the world as progressive thinking. I do not see alot of it here. Hope this happens. They need those tourist buses in the central area, like they need cancer, or a hole in the head. Same goes for Samui, downtown Bangkok, and other tourist areas.

I did some calculations a few years back, and came to the conclusion that the mayor of Samui could put together a beach cleaning crew for 75,000 baht per month. A four person crew that would make the rotations, and clean up two or three beaches per day. It would do wonders to some beautiful beaches that are consistently fouled by trash. That is peanuts for a government that collects billions, from the local community. Any community can do that. The ones that do not have a boil on their faces, officials completely devoid of pride, competency, and the ability to run their tourist areas properly. This is such a basic necessity.

Of course the officials were grateful that the foreigners had volunteered to do their jobs. The question remains, why were they not doing their jobs to begin with? Sloth? An extreme lack of pride? Incompetency? Greed? Pick one.

A lot of Thai bashing in this thread. You were not there so you do not have a clue most of yiu.

So, let me understand your position. From your point of view, is it ok to charge someone for spoiled goods? It is ok to charge nearly 2,000 baht for a rotten lobster, that should have been discarded days earlier? Is it ok to attempt to pass off bad food on an unsuspecting tourist or foreigner? And is it acceptable, once caught in the act of perpetrating this crime, to continue the charade, and deny, obfuscate, and shed blame on others?

Where are the standards? Where is the morality? Where are the ethics? Is there no code of conduct? Please explain.

That's not what I meant . Thai media reports that the German ate the lobster , not only the tail, and then complained. We have two different articles about this story . Also there is a question about how to prepare a frozen lobster compared to one who is alive from the tank. I am not an expert , I would never pay that much for a lobster anyway. All I know is that the restaurant has many satisfied customers, and inspectors concluded that the standards according to them were fine.

That was media show. The media was present when the inspectors arrived, or they arrived together. What do you think the chances were, that the inspectors were going to censure the restaurant, in front of the media, and then have them publish that for national consumption? In my opinion the possibility of that happening was next to zero.

This man did not finish the lobster. He brought a good chunk of it to the police station, to offer to the officer, who would not touch it, after examining it. So, we do not know how much he ate. My guess is not more than one bite.

First of all RIP to the Thai wife that leaves behind two children and a hubby.

I went through the same problems 6 years ago.

After 19 years marriage and finally going for a divorce, I picked up a stunner in a bar on Cowboy and a week later I was already in Udon to meet the family and discuss Sinsod and completing her mansion that was still not finished yet after two other farangs from Italy and Holland left her.

At the time I worked in Singapore and my relationship started in September and ended on Songkran around 7 months later. I ignored all the red lights for almost 7 months and longterm friends that have known me for over 20 years and lived in Bangkok told me to run as far as I can out of the relationship.

Their have been many red lights:

1) I had to pay every day for a dinner and a lot of Sonchai's came to the party which most were introduced to me as their cousins, neighbors, high low players etc.

2) Family had every day money problems as they are all hooked up to gambling, yaba and drinking

3) I told my Udon lady to stop gambling, drinking and her words to me was only stupid farangs pay sinsod to a bar lady or even consider a bar girl as their future wife.

4) I called her from Singapore and told her that I am coming back to Udon in two days time and she told me on the phone that she miss me so much. What she didn't know was that I was on the way to the airport already and I hired a limo from Udon and visited at night our (her) home and surprise she was with a guy who she introduced as her cousin to me. This guy only showed up after the house was build and during the time of construction the guy could not be seen.

5) She also had a brother in law who is a farang and his wife bragged how much money she had from this guy every month. The guy was almost 70 years and always out of the country and came only once a year for two months. He too found his wife on Soi Cowboy and has been working none-stop to finance her a lifestyle that every Isaan woman in that village asked her to find a rich farang hubby. When I went to the bar on Cowboy again I noted 5 girls in the bar that came all from the same village.

What I try to say is that no one needs to be surprised that a Thai bargirl wants to have a gik on the sideline when hubby is overseas. It is fairly to say that if the woman was a bargirl that she was in the trade for making money and this will not stop even after they are married and have children.

As for me I was burned and wrote off 1.5 million Baht over a period of 7 months but I know guys in Udon they have been milked for over 10 years and lost far more money then I did in 7 months. I have no bad feelings towards her but I am very happy that I listen on the end to close friends that saved me and my money.

Great story. I applaud you for your candor. It takes a big man to admit to something like this.

Yeah, on an anonymous forum it takes a really big man ....give me a break...

Was it you using one of your other numerous accounts ?

Please enlighten us all with your equally courageous acts, that you have performed lately. It does not take a particularly big man, to attempt to look taller, by lopping off the head of the man standing next to him.

First of all RIP to the Thai wife that leaves behind two children and a hubby.

I went through the same problems 6 years ago.

After 19 years marriage and finally going for a divorce, I picked up a stunner in a bar on Cowboy and a week later I was already in Udon to meet the family and discuss Sinsod and completing her mansion that was still not finished yet after two other farangs from Italy and Holland left her.

At the time I worked in Singapore and my relationship started in September and ended on Songkran around 7 months later. I ignored all the red lights for almost 7 months and longterm friends that have known me for over 20 years and lived in Bangkok told me to run as far as I can out of the relationship.

Their have been many red lights:

1) I had to pay every day for a dinner and a lot of Sonchai's came to the party which most were introduced to me as their cousins, neighbors, high low players etc.

2) Family had every day money problems as they are all hooked up to gambling, yaba and drinking

3) I told my Udon lady to stop gambling, drinking and her words to me was only stupid farangs pay sinsod to a bar lady or even consider a bar girl as their future wife.

4) I called her from Singapore and told her that I am coming back to Udon in two days time and she told me on the phone that she miss me so much. What she didn't know was that I was on the way to the airport already and I hired a limo from Udon and visited at night our (her) home and surprise she was with a guy who she introduced as her cousin to me. This guy only showed up after the house was build and during the time of construction the guy could not be seen.

5) She also had a brother in law who is a farang and his wife bragged how much money she had from this guy every month. The guy was almost 70 years and always out of the country and came only once a year for two months. He too found his wife on Soi Cowboy and has been working none-stop to finance her a lifestyle that every Isaan woman in that village asked her to find a rich farang hubby. When I went to the bar on Cowboy again I noted 5 girls in the bar that came all from the same village.

What I try to say is that no one needs to be surprised that a Thai bargirl wants to have a gik on the sideline when hubby is overseas. It is fairly to say that if the woman was a bargirl that she was in the trade for making money and this will not stop even after they are married and have children.

As for me I was burned and wrote off 1.5 million Baht over a period of 7 months but I know guys in Udon they have been milked for over 10 years and lost far more money then I did in 7 months. I have no bad feelings towards her but I am very happy that I listen on the end to close friends that saved me and my money.

Great story. I applaud you for your candor. It takes a big man to admit to something like this. There are countless lessons to be learned from your plight.

1. First and foremost is the realization that time is our ally. Time almost always benefits us, and rarely benefits her. So use it wisely. Take your time getting to know her. Her issues, problems, neurosis, dilemmas, conflicts, anger, jealousy, possessiveness, emotional baggage, and all else will reveal itself given enough time. Do not allow HER to push the agenda. It is up to YOU to control the agenda. Push back. She will nearly always push the timetable. She may be in a hurry to take your money, or at the minimum, establish more financial security. Do not allow it. We are working on my timeframe here. If that does not work for you, you can leave anytime. Nothing you say or do is going to push the timeline, for me. Nothing. All you are doing by pushing the timeline is revealing your level of anxiety, and making me question whether or not being with you is the right thing for me. Keep pushing, and I am out of here.

2. Hooking up with a bar girl, and in the extreme, a Soi Cowboy, Nana, or Pattaya go-go girl is a recipe for disaster. It takes a very strong man to survive something like that. You just do not know where she has been, what she has been up to, or the extent of the whole thing. But, one thing that is safe to assume, in most cases, is that she has been with hundreds if not thousands already, and the chances of her having a healthy agenda toward you, and a healthy state of mind are very low. And the second thing that is safe to assume, is that the story she is telling you is NOT the truth, and not her life.

3. Typically, most women here are more clever than we are. Many are very skilled in plying their trade, telling us what we want to hear, and creating a background story line, that works for us. A lot of foreigners come here and are very emotionally vulnerable. The women know that. So, buyer beware. Again, take your time. Chances are, that a really beautiful, sexy young thing will not want you to take your time, and may not have much patience for that. So what? It takes a long time to really get to know someone. That applies for the majority of civilians. And when you are talking about a bar or go-go girl, even more time is needed, to know what you are dealing with. The potential issues are just too great. So, if she is not willing to give you that time, what do you do? You move on. No hesitation. It does not matter how sexy, or how beautiful she is. You just move on. You treat yourself with kindness, respect, and dignity, and do the right thing, and walk out that door!

I am fascinated by people who travel or move to a foreign country and behave as they would back in their home country. Come on man! Life is too short. Accept you got ripped off and leave and don't come back. Lucky you did not eat the whole thing. Move on. Lesson learned.

Of all the replies on this thread, this is perhaps the most ridiculous of them all. Why should he take the 1,800 baht on the chin? Because he ordered the wrong dish? He more than likely chose a lobster that was fresh, alive, and swimming around in the tank. They served him one that was dead for days, and completely rotten. The restaurant committed a crime. They attempted to steal his money. And he should accept it, and leave, and not come back? Just be a compliant, silent, and cooperative victim of a crime?

How does this equate with behaving a certain way in his own country? You do not think he would have complained in Germany? Do you know what they would have done in Germany, or the US, in this case? Offer a sincere apology, offer to exchange the lobster for the freshest one in the house, and offer a free cocktail for his trouble. Or offer him a free meal. So, a different standard applies here? We should never expect good service here?

Please explain your reasoning, if possible.

A lot of Thai bashing in this thread. You were not there so you do not have a clue most of yiu.

So, let me understand your position. From your point of view, is it ok to charge someone for spoiled goods? It is ok to charge nearly 2,000 baht for a rotten lobster, that should have been discarded days earlier? Is it ok to attempt to pass off bad food on an unsuspecting tourist or foreigner? And is it acceptable, once caught in the act of perpetrating this crime, to continue the charade, and deny, obfuscate, and shed blame on others?

Where are the standards? Where is the morality? Where are the ethics? Is there no code of conduct? Please explain.

But Thais never, ever, admit something is wrong as they lose face. So, by ignoring the problem or insisting there isn't one or it is someone else's fault, they lose even more face by acting as this restaurant did, or the place you had a problem did. Acting as others would and ensuring your future custom and their good name wouldn't occur to them as that would involve forward thinking. And we all know that Thais do not do forward thinking.

Some Thais will admit they are wrong, but its not the usual first reaction. .

and deep down they will still feel they have lost face.

Its a shame this face thing holds them back so much as a nation.

I have said it before, and I will continue saying it until the day I die. The practice of face is the ugliest, and most cowardly part of Thai culture. And it is the least spiritual part of their daily life. It is the opposite of spirit. It is the absolute refusal to look within for the source of any problem, or issue, and by it's nature is the polar opposite of the practice of Buddhism. Buddha taught introspection as a part of personal and spiritual growth. To refuse to look within is to refuse to grow, develop, and become a better person. Period. End of story.

Many will attempt to put some local spin on this. Oh, it is a part of the culture, oh you do not understand face, etc. But, the reality is that face is simply ugly, gross, immature, churlish, and a sign of a deeply undeveloped nature. It holds not only the people back, but the entire culture, and the entire nation, on so many levels. The obsession with face is ugly.

This is not the first time This place has been in the news. The last time it was bad shrimp. Customer refused to pay so the police were called. Police looked at and smelled the shrimp and said it was spoiled but that customer still had to pay. The customer told the police he would pay for the meal if the police ate the shrimp. The police declined to eat the shrimp giving their reason he did not want to get sick. In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail.

Isn't it funny the Thais think of them selves as giving good service and their country is a great place to visit.

Anyone keeping track of how many tourist we have killed so far this year?

This one really takes the cake. Or is it the prawn - a very raw prawn?

"In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail."

Does TAT provide bail money? I suspect they would have, very quickly, had he declined the 'offer' to pay -

Since Thaivisa does not allow us to call out these worms by name, we should find another forum to call out these pirates. Perhaps trip advisor? If you send me a PM with the name of this place, I will start some forums elsewhere, to make it known what this place is doing. It is wrong. They deserve some backlash from these acts.

This is not the first time This place has been in the news. The last time it was bad shrimp. Customer refused to pay so the police were called. Police looked at and smelled the shrimp and said it was spoiled but that customer still had to pay. The customer told the police he would pay for the meal if the police ate the shrimp. The police declined to eat the shrimp giving their reason he did not want to get sick. In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail.

Isn't it funny the Thais think of them selves as giving good service and their country is a great place to visit.

Anyone keeping track of how many tourist we have killed so far this year?

Could not agree more with you when it comes to money with Thais they are hell bent this makes me so ??????? if they have done wrong they got to take responsibility as one guy sad in the uk this would be refunded asap if you had to wait or the food was bad Shame on Thailand as always they don't give a shit about tourists !!!!!

Responsibility is an unknown term for Thais in general

Taking responsibility requires the ability to look within. It is the ability to introspect, take charge, and own a situation. Many Thais are not taught this ability. Part of it is the cowardly act of face, which discourages looking within, and finding the source of the problem. Once you do that, you then own it. You apologize, and you make good on it. In the case of this restaurant, they should have offered a profuse apology, taken the situation by the horns, by not charging him ANYTHING, and given him a free cocktail, on top of that. That is how a mature man would address a situation that was of their own creation. You do not charge two thousand baht for a rotten lobster. And if the weak, morally anemic, horrendous libel laws here were not invented to protect these worms, we would all be able to call out these fools.

If it were me, I would have absolutely refused to pay for the meal. The police would have been called, and I would have then asked the policeman to try a bite of the lobster, and refused to pay one baht. Take me to jail if you like, but no way am I going to cover the cost of their spoiled lobster. Not happening.

This is simply the demonstration of a tremendous lack of perspective. She had it all, and she blew it anyway. Some people are given all they need to live a good life, and they screw it up anyway. Imagine his surprise, to find the mother of his children not only dead, but killed by a slimy drug punk. Wow. What can one say?

I always say time is our ally, but not theirs. Take you time getting to know someone. So many rush in. And so many find out later just who this person is, that they have settled down with. Often, the woman is pushing the agenda. We need to push back. No, this is my time frame, and if it does not work for you, you are free to leave anytime. Do not push me. I am not going to respond to that. Real men do not respond to that kind of pressure. There are just too many choices out there.

keep pushing mike - marry your mother could be an option ?

Why do that? I already have a very good woman. And I established an agenda with her. On my terms. I took my time getting to know her. And did not allow her to push the agenda, as such a high percentage of women do.

Marry my mother? First of all she passed away. And although I adored her, I am not a mama's boy, and never have been.

Be as independent as it suits you. It all depends on the man. Some of us like to live our lives on our own terms. Some like terms dictated to them. It is up to you, as they say.

Police surmised that he may have died from internal injuries sustained in the accident or complications as a result of being drunk.

Yes, the rocket scientists, who were trained in Scotland Yard, again come up with a scientific conclusion, based on much evidence, combined with state of the art forensics, provided by a very generous national government determined to create one of the most effective police forces in the world. One the entire planet can look upon with great admiration and respect.

Of course, there is a zero percent possibility that the vengeful driver could have been the cause. Why would anyone come to that conclusion? Why should it even be examined, or considered?

This is simply the demonstration of a tremendous lack of perspective. She had it all, and she blew it anyway. Some people are given all they need to live a good life, and they screw it up anyway. Imagine his surprise, to find the mother of his children not only dead, but killed by a slimy drug punk. Wow. What can one say?

I always say time is our ally, but not theirs. Take you time getting to know someone. So many rush in. And so many find out later just who this person is, that they have settled down with. Often, the woman is pushing the agenda. We need to push back. No, this is my time frame, and if it does not work for you, you are free to leave anytime. Do not push me. I am not going to respond to that. Real men do not respond to that kind of pressure. There are just too many choices out there.

It strikes me as funny, how many Thais are willing to charge alot for their services, but when asked for a refund, due to a poor product, or service, they fight to the end to avoid having to give the money back. And some of them refer to us as cheap? Ever try to get a refund, or even a credit from a Thai? Some would rather lose a customer for life, rather than give a refund. There have been instances where I had a service issues with an establishment I had been doing business with for years. Rather than refund me a small amount of money they chose to lose me as a customer for life. Is that an extreme lack of vision, or what? Talk about not being able to see the forest beyond the trees.

This man should not have had to pay one baht. The manager or owner should have offered an apology. And a free cocktail, for his trouble. Instead, they offered ignorance, and mental retardation. Too bad this place was not called out by name.