spidermike007

First of all RIP to the Thai wife that leaves behind two children and a hubby.

I went through the same problems 6 years ago.

After 19 years marriage and finally going for a divorce, I picked up a stunner in a bar on Cowboy and a week later I was already in Udon to meet the family and discuss Sinsod and completing her mansion that was still not finished yet after two other farangs from Italy and Holland left her.

At the time I worked in Singapore and my relationship started in September and ended on Songkran around 7 months later. I ignored all the red lights for almost 7 months and longterm friends that have known me for over 20 years and lived in Bangkok told me to run as far as I can out of the relationship.

Their have been many red lights:

1) I had to pay every day for a dinner and a lot of Sonchai's came to the party which most were introduced to me as their cousins, neighbors, high low players etc.

2) Family had every day money problems as they are all hooked up to gambling, yaba and drinking

3) I told my Udon lady to stop gambling, drinking and her words to me was only stupid farangs pay sinsod to a bar lady or even consider a bar girl as their future wife.

4) I called her from Singapore and told her that I am coming back to Udon in two days time and she told me on the phone that she miss me so much. What she didn't know was that I was on the way to the airport already and I hired a limo from Udon and visited at night our (her) home and surprise she was with a guy who she introduced as her cousin to me. This guy only showed up after the house was build and during the time of construction the guy could not be seen.

5) She also had a brother in law who is a farang and his wife bragged how much money she had from this guy every month. The guy was almost 70 years and always out of the country and came only once a year for two months. He too found his wife on Soi Cowboy and has been working none-stop to finance her a lifestyle that every Isaan woman in that village asked her to find a rich farang hubby. When I went to the bar on Cowboy again I noted 5 girls in the bar that came all from the same village.

What I try to say is that no one needs to be surprised that a Thai bargirl wants to have a gik on the sideline when hubby is overseas. It is fairly to say that if the woman was a bargirl that she was in the trade for making money and this will not stop even after they are married and have children.

As for me I was burned and wrote off 1.5 million Baht over a period of 7 months but I know guys in Udon they have been milked for over 10 years and lost far more money then I did in 7 months. I have no bad feelings towards her but I am very happy that I listen on the end to close friends that saved me and my money.

Great story. I applaud you for your candor. It takes a big man to admit to something like this.

Yeah, on an anonymous forum it takes a really big man ....give me a break...

Was it you using one of your other numerous accounts ?

Please enlighten us all with your equally courageous acts, that you have performed lately. It does not take a particularly big man, to attempt to look taller, by lopping off the head of the man standing next to him.

First of all RIP to the Thai wife that leaves behind two children and a hubby.

I went through the same problems 6 years ago.

After 19 years marriage and finally going for a divorce, I picked up a stunner in a bar on Cowboy and a week later I was already in Udon to meet the family and discuss Sinsod and completing her mansion that was still not finished yet after two other farangs from Italy and Holland left her.

At the time I worked in Singapore and my relationship started in September and ended on Songkran around 7 months later. I ignored all the red lights for almost 7 months and longterm friends that have known me for over 20 years and lived in Bangkok told me to run as far as I can out of the relationship.

Their have been many red lights:

1) I had to pay every day for a dinner and a lot of Sonchai's came to the party which most were introduced to me as their cousins, neighbors, high low players etc.

2) Family had every day money problems as they are all hooked up to gambling, yaba and drinking

3) I told my Udon lady to stop gambling, drinking and her words to me was only stupid farangs pay sinsod to a bar lady or even consider a bar girl as their future wife.

4) I called her from Singapore and told her that I am coming back to Udon in two days time and she told me on the phone that she miss me so much. What she didn't know was that I was on the way to the airport already and I hired a limo from Udon and visited at night our (her) home and surprise she was with a guy who she introduced as her cousin to me. This guy only showed up after the house was build and during the time of construction the guy could not be seen.

5) She also had a brother in law who is a farang and his wife bragged how much money she had from this guy every month. The guy was almost 70 years and always out of the country and came only once a year for two months. He too found his wife on Soi Cowboy and has been working none-stop to finance her a lifestyle that every Isaan woman in that village asked her to find a rich farang hubby. When I went to the bar on Cowboy again I noted 5 girls in the bar that came all from the same village.

What I try to say is that no one needs to be surprised that a Thai bargirl wants to have a gik on the sideline when hubby is overseas. It is fairly to say that if the woman was a bargirl that she was in the trade for making money and this will not stop even after they are married and have children.

As for me I was burned and wrote off 1.5 million Baht over a period of 7 months but I know guys in Udon they have been milked for over 10 years and lost far more money then I did in 7 months. I have no bad feelings towards her but I am very happy that I listen on the end to close friends that saved me and my money.

Great story. I applaud you for your candor. It takes a big man to admit to something like this. There are countless lessons to be learned from your plight.

1. First and foremost is the realization that time is our ally. Time almost always benefits us, and rarely benefits her. So use it wisely. Take your time getting to know her. Her issues, problems, neurosis, dilemmas, conflicts, anger, jealousy, possessiveness, emotional baggage, and all else will reveal itself given enough time. Do not allow HER to push the agenda. It is up to YOU to control the agenda. Push back. She will nearly always push the timetable. She may be in a hurry to take your money, or at the minimum, establish more financial security. Do not allow it. We are working on my timeframe here. If that does not work for you, you can leave anytime. Nothing you say or do is going to push the timeline, for me. Nothing. All you are doing by pushing the timeline is revealing your level of anxiety, and making me question whether or not being with you is the right thing for me. Keep pushing, and I am out of here.

2. Hooking up with a bar girl, and in the extreme, a Soi Cowboy, Nana, or Pattaya go-go girl is a recipe for disaster. It takes a very strong man to survive something like that. You just do not know where she has been, what she has been up to, or the extent of the whole thing. But, one thing that is safe to assume, in most cases, is that she has been with hundreds if not thousands already, and the chances of her having a healthy agenda toward you, and a healthy state of mind are very low. And the second thing that is safe to assume, is that the story she is telling you is NOT the truth, and not her life.

3. Typically, most women here are more clever than we are. Many are very skilled in plying their trade, telling us what we want to hear, and creating a background story line, that works for us. A lot of foreigners come here and are very emotionally vulnerable. The women know that. So, buyer beware. Again, take your time. Chances are, that a really beautiful, sexy young thing will not want you to take your time, and may not have much patience for that. So what? It takes a long time to really get to know someone. That applies for the majority of civilians. And when you are talking about a bar or go-go girl, even more time is needed, to know what you are dealing with. The potential issues are just too great. So, if she is not willing to give you that time, what do you do? You move on. No hesitation. It does not matter how sexy, or how beautiful she is. You just move on. You treat yourself with kindness, respect, and dignity, and do the right thing, and walk out that door!

I am fascinated by people who travel or move to a foreign country and behave as they would back in their home country. Come on man! Life is too short. Accept you got ripped off and leave and don't come back. Lucky you did not eat the whole thing. Move on. Lesson learned.

Of all the replies on this thread, this is perhaps the most ridiculous of them all. Why should he take the 1,800 baht on the chin? Because he ordered the wrong dish? He more than likely chose a lobster that was fresh, alive, and swimming around in the tank. They served him one that was dead for days, and completely rotten. The restaurant committed a crime. They attempted to steal his money. And he should accept it, and leave, and not come back? Just be a compliant, silent, and cooperative victim of a crime?

How does this equate with behaving a certain way in his own country? You do not think he would have complained in Germany? Do you know what they would have done in Germany, or the US, in this case? Offer a sincere apology, offer to exchange the lobster for the freshest one in the house, and offer a free cocktail for his trouble. Or offer him a free meal. So, a different standard applies here? We should never expect good service here?

Please explain your reasoning, if possible.

A lot of Thai bashing in this thread. You were not there so you do not have a clue most of yiu.

So, let me understand your position. From your point of view, is it ok to charge someone for spoiled goods? It is ok to charge nearly 2,000 baht for a rotten lobster, that should have been discarded days earlier? Is it ok to attempt to pass off bad food on an unsuspecting tourist or foreigner? And is it acceptable, once caught in the act of perpetrating this crime, to continue the charade, and deny, obfuscate, and shed blame on others?

Where are the standards? Where is the morality? Where are the ethics? Is there no code of conduct? Please explain.

But Thais never, ever, admit something is wrong as they lose face. So, by ignoring the problem or insisting there isn't one or it is someone else's fault, they lose even more face by acting as this restaurant did, or the place you had a problem did. Acting as others would and ensuring your future custom and their good name wouldn't occur to them as that would involve forward thinking. And we all know that Thais do not do forward thinking.

Some Thais will admit they are wrong, but its not the usual first reaction. .

and deep down they will still feel they have lost face.

Its a shame this face thing holds them back so much as a nation.

I have said it before, and I will continue saying it until the day I die. The practice of face is the ugliest, and most cowardly part of Thai culture. And it is the least spiritual part of their daily life. It is the opposite of spirit. It is the absolute refusal to look within for the source of any problem, or issue, and by it's nature is the polar opposite of the practice of Buddhism. Buddha taught introspection as a part of personal and spiritual growth. To refuse to look within is to refuse to grow, develop, and become a better person. Period. End of story.

Many will attempt to put some local spin on this. Oh, it is a part of the culture, oh you do not understand face, etc. But, the reality is that face is simply ugly, gross, immature, churlish, and a sign of a deeply undeveloped nature. It holds not only the people back, but the entire culture, and the entire nation, on so many levels. The obsession with face is ugly.

This is not the first time This place has been in the news. The last time it was bad shrimp. Customer refused to pay so the police were called. Police looked at and smelled the shrimp and said it was spoiled but that customer still had to pay. The customer told the police he would pay for the meal if the police ate the shrimp. The police declined to eat the shrimp giving their reason he did not want to get sick. In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail.

Isn't it funny the Thais think of them selves as giving good service and their country is a great place to visit.

Anyone keeping track of how many tourist we have killed so far this year?

This one really takes the cake. Or is it the prawn - a very raw prawn?

"In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail."

Does TAT provide bail money? I suspect they would have, very quickly, had he declined the 'offer' to pay -

Since Thaivisa does not allow us to call out these worms by name, we should find another forum to call out these pirates. Perhaps trip advisor? If you send me a PM with the name of this place, I will start some forums elsewhere, to make it known what this place is doing. It is wrong. They deserve some backlash from these acts.

This is not the first time This place has been in the news. The last time it was bad shrimp. Customer refused to pay so the police were called. Police looked at and smelled the shrimp and said it was spoiled but that customer still had to pay. The customer told the police he would pay for the meal if the police ate the shrimp. The police declined to eat the shrimp giving their reason he did not want to get sick. In the end customer had to chose whether to pay or go to jail.

Isn't it funny the Thais think of them selves as giving good service and their country is a great place to visit.

Anyone keeping track of how many tourist we have killed so far this year?

Could not agree more with you when it comes to money with Thais they are hell bent this makes me so ??????? if they have done wrong they got to take responsibility as one guy sad in the uk this would be refunded asap if you had to wait or the food was bad Shame on Thailand as always they don't give a shit about tourists !!!!!

Responsibility is an unknown term for Thais in general

Taking responsibility requires the ability to look within. It is the ability to introspect, take charge, and own a situation. Many Thais are not taught this ability. Part of it is the cowardly act of face, which discourages looking within, and finding the source of the problem. Once you do that, you then own it. You apologize, and you make good on it. In the case of this restaurant, they should have offered a profuse apology, taken the situation by the horns, by not charging him ANYTHING, and given him a free cocktail, on top of that. That is how a mature man would address a situation that was of their own creation. You do not charge two thousand baht for a rotten lobster. And if the weak, morally anemic, horrendous libel laws here were not invented to protect these worms, we would all be able to call out these fools.

If it were me, I would have absolutely refused to pay for the meal. The police would have been called, and I would have then asked the policeman to try a bite of the lobster, and refused to pay one baht. Take me to jail if you like, but no way am I going to cover the cost of their spoiled lobster. Not happening.

This is simply the demonstration of a tremendous lack of perspective. She had it all, and she blew it anyway. Some people are given all they need to live a good life, and they screw it up anyway. Imagine his surprise, to find the mother of his children not only dead, but killed by a slimy drug punk. Wow. What can one say?

I always say time is our ally, but not theirs. Take you time getting to know someone. So many rush in. And so many find out later just who this person is, that they have settled down with. Often, the woman is pushing the agenda. We need to push back. No, this is my time frame, and if it does not work for you, you are free to leave anytime. Do not push me. I am not going to respond to that. Real men do not respond to that kind of pressure. There are just too many choices out there.

keep pushing mike - marry your mother could be an option ?

Why do that? I already have a very good woman. And I established an agenda with her. On my terms. I took my time getting to know her. And did not allow her to push the agenda, as such a high percentage of women do.

Marry my mother? First of all she passed away. And although I adored her, I am not a mama's boy, and never have been.

Be as independent as it suits you. It all depends on the man. Some of us like to live our lives on our own terms. Some like terms dictated to them. It is up to you, as they say.

Police surmised that he may have died from internal injuries sustained in the accident or complications as a result of being drunk.

Yes, the rocket scientists, who were trained in Scotland Yard, again come up with a scientific conclusion, based on much evidence, combined with state of the art forensics, provided by a very generous national government determined to create one of the most effective police forces in the world. One the entire planet can look upon with great admiration and respect.

Of course, there is a zero percent possibility that the vengeful driver could have been the cause. Why would anyone come to that conclusion? Why should it even be examined, or considered?

This is simply the demonstration of a tremendous lack of perspective. She had it all, and she blew it anyway. Some people are given all they need to live a good life, and they screw it up anyway. Imagine his surprise, to find the mother of his children not only dead, but killed by a slimy drug punk. Wow. What can one say?

I always say time is our ally, but not theirs. Take you time getting to know someone. So many rush in. And so many find out later just who this person is, that they have settled down with. Often, the woman is pushing the agenda. We need to push back. No, this is my time frame, and if it does not work for you, you are free to leave anytime. Do not push me. I am not going to respond to that. Real men do not respond to that kind of pressure. There are just too many choices out there.

It strikes me as funny, how many Thais are willing to charge alot for their services, but when asked for a refund, due to a poor product, or service, they fight to the end to avoid having to give the money back. And some of them refer to us as cheap? Ever try to get a refund, or even a credit from a Thai? Some would rather lose a customer for life, rather than give a refund. There have been instances where I had a service issues with an establishment I had been doing business with for years. Rather than refund me a small amount of money they chose to lose me as a customer for life. Is that an extreme lack of vision, or what? Talk about not being able to see the forest beyond the trees.

This man should not have had to pay one baht. The manager or owner should have offered an apology. And a free cocktail, for his trouble. Instead, they offered ignorance, and mental retardation. Too bad this place was not called out by name.

Quote Dan

""Sometimes I wish that my calling was back in Australia, but theres a lot of hurt and broken girls that need assistance, and thats why Im here, he says.""

Unquote

Mmmm?

"Does this not clearly imply a religious conviction is behind his mission?"

Or is this too going to be refuted?

I notice the religious kooks here continue hurling insults

"The personal level of attacks on people making the ""simple observation "that the average woman working is not as the article leads us to be......very young .

In fact it averages out at 27.

65% have children.

Many were Carnal a decade ok .

As for crying and broken ....I am sure there are......I for one acknowledge harm which is why I personally don't partake .

But remember there are no absolutes.

It's a plain lie to claim all sex workers are screwed up.

Right now these things are happening in Thailand

Some sex workers are also elated at leaving a five star hotel room with a months pay. After being pool side two days perhaps.?

Far from crying they are begging the "" John "" to call.

A nurse is sent to a another client and her one year stint escorting has not damaged her as far as we see.

She drives a 35k USD car to the job.

Even if so ..( if she is damaged) ..is it her choice?

Why attack the John .?

You can stop this trade between two consulting adults.

Some others are seated on planes flying out of Thailand with their new husband as we speak.

Are they all sad cases ?

Do we get Dans version only as the gospel truth?

That we are hell bound for associating with woman of sin?

What is so difficult to accept about the man who explicitly solicits sex?

Is it for you to judge him with such narrow vision?

Is this article a shame piece?

Are all sex workers little girls really?

Why can't we recognise agency?

And if its established Dan is a Christian we can assume he is also against sex outside of marriage?

And homosexual ladyboys?

They are not to be rescued Dan?

Do you only want to rescue teen girls scantly glad .

Not a six footer homosexual ?

I dare you t try that sometime Dan .

I can envision Dan getting belted by a shoe.

Look the personal barrage against writers here.

Is disgraceful.

Non disclosure of their faith( which is relevant in objective matters)

The visitor to the thread are going to be msiled.

You can be objective without being a sex tourist or sex Pat .

I have several sex worker friends .

None seem in need of rescue.

One just got back from Germany .

Loads of stories and gifts.

I have been personally slandered as a sex procurer with Woking girls.

Without the slightest evidence other than I am not narrow minded .

Because I know them ""bad is me?""

Am I going to pay Dan?

And your article says we are all screwed up?

Not healthy fit happy people?

More of your narrow awareness?

And as for the woman

I don't call the poor dears "" whores"" as they do in some quarters....here.

It's curious the level of disdain they harbour....yet say they care?

And what does Dan do?

Exactly?

Offer them income?

Money?

Or simply offer them Jesus?

How does he rescue them and from whom?

This story is an old scam ......donate money link ....

Dan also looks somewhat uneducated and scruffy .

Does he have the correct visas to be working in Thailand .

These people here can not seem to debate without getting into the gutter and making judgements.

The main reason Christians seem insincere damaged people themselves .

Comments like "" you say anything to justify your sex pat life."

Sweeping judgements indeed.

The bottom line is harm exists.

On all sides.

But the silly notion of hell or woman needing Jesus wears thin.

Just as personal attacks on men.

Knowledge is structured in consciousness and men need to individually decide their own behaviours not have it dictated to.

The church is largely irrelevant .

And whilst men offer woman money many woman through sheer greed are going to proceed.

Few are trafficked and victims in the western tourist sex trade.

Woman are not all broken and suffering souls.

I have to agree with alot of what you said. Obviously Dan is a misguided soul, on a mission of his own, and is a fairly typical "missionary sort" who is probably doing no inner work whatsoever, on himself, but rather puts all his effort into changing the outside world. My guess is that if he spent a couple of hours a day in prayer, meditation, and the seeking of guidance, he would be doing something else with his life, that is far more productive. There is so much misunderstanding on this forum. The reality is, a man is free to do as he likes with his life, as long as he is engaging in consenting sex with women of legal age. Period. If you do not like it, you do not have to do it. Guys like Dan come from countries with very sexually repressive attitudes, and think they can change the world. He does not even have the power to change his own inner world, one iota, it would appear.

Why not stop it at source,in the Isaan villages where a lot of these girls are raped by their Fathers,then pimped out by their brothers to his mates for 20 Baht a time,no wonder when the recruiters turn up it's easy pickings for them?

Then they blame the white man for turning up like a fool and getting rinsed down on Soi Cowboy at 200 Baht a beer just to look at these girls,or down Nana Plaza which isn't much cheaper!

As mentioned before old Danny boy won't go after the real criminals,the traffickers and pimps as he'd very quickly,probably within days,end up dead in a ditch somewhere.

Blaming the doddery old farts wobbling around Pattaya and Patpong is like blaming junkies for the global Heroin problem,it's been shown very clearly and time and time again that it just doesn't work,the 'War on Mongers' was lost about 2,000 years ago in biblical times!

You hold Issan in such high esteem. While I am sure some of this happens the whole pimped out by her brother for 20 baht a pop is a bit melodramatic.

I know alot of exceptional Issan people. They put the hi-so of Bangkok to shame with their family values, integrity and willingness to work hard for an honest living.

You obviously don't know any of Bangkoks Hi-Sos. I know a couple of exceptional individuals from this segment of Thai society. What makes you put them down like this?

I agree, there are some great people in Isarn..

Where does one even start to answer a question like this. The Hi-So are responsible for so many of the problems that plague this country. On so many levels, they are doing all they can to hold the country back. Do you really think they care much about the masses, and the problems that they are facing?

Let me ask this another way. Of the very wealthy friends you know here, on the average, what percent of their income, or fortunes are they giving to real charities, and projects that enrich the lives of the poor? My guess is that the amount would be much lower, that you will find in other parts of the world.

Why not stop it at source,in the Isaan villages where a lot of these girls are raped by their Fathers,then pimped out by their brothers to his mates for 20 Baht a time,no wonder when the recruiters turn up it's easy pickings for them?

Then they blame the white man for turning up like a fool and getting rinsed down on Soi Cowboy at 200 Baht a beer just to look at these girls,or down Nana Plaza which isn't much cheaper!

As mentioned before old Danny boy won't go after the real criminals,the traffickers and pimps as he'd very quickly,probably within days,end up dead in a ditch somewhere.

Blaming the doddery old farts wobbling around Pattaya and Patpong is like blaming junkies for the global Heroin problem,it's been shown very clearly and time and time again that it just doesn't work,the 'War on Mongers' was lost about 2,000 years ago in biblical times!

You hold Issan in such high esteem. While I am sure some of this happens the whole pimped out by her brother for 20 baht a pop is a bit melodramatic.

I know alot of exceptional Issan people. They put the hi-so of Bangkok to shame with their family values, integrity and willingness to work hard for an honest living.

Something fishy going on here. "in fact close to 100,000 rooms in the province that are being operated like hotels "

There are only 17 pages on Airbnb around 340 rooms, so where do they get the 100k rooms from? And how do those people advertise them? Real estate agents wouldn't be interested in nightly or weekly rentals, to much effort for a small commission . Im starting to think they would be mostly Thais or the chubby smiling guy is telling us porkies

As usual, they are making it up, as they go along. A hotel association, with deep pockets, and well connected members asked them to say that. They will say anything they are asked.

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

Without us they would all live on the streets. I see it as we are helping them, as the Thai society isn't. No laws that makes fathers pay for the children's. No social securities. 90% of tourists are here for sex. That boosts the society.

So no. The Lord isn't going to punish me for helping these ladies give food and shelter for their baby and family.

And i don't care what people think about my statement. What options would the girls have unemployed. With a baby. Uneducated. This is a go_______t failure. A social structure failure. An educational failure. An cultural behaviour that accepts this.

They have accepted this and so have i.

Damn this is going to be quoted a lot hahaha!

Your figure of 90% may have been the case back in the days when Tiger Wood's dad was serving in Vietnam, and came to Pattaya, and met his wife and the mother of Tiger in a bar. Maybe back in the 1960's. These days? Probably more like 12%. Just guessing. There are so many families now, and probably less than 2% of the Chinese tourists, who make up a third of the current crop of tourists, partake in any action. Thanks are changing. Society is evolving.

Nobody is going to punish you for enjoying yourself with a woman for hire, as long as you treat her with kindness and respect. Only the prudes, the naive Americans, and the moralists will attempt to do so.

Don't disagree with much of what you say, even though my own thoughts may differ slightly.

But I think you are wrong when you say that society is evolving, except in the broadest possible terms. In my opinion, society is fragmenting and becoming less cohesive and has been for about 30 years. It's always been cyclical - a spiral function not a circular function, and right now, society seems to be on a down-swing. It will recover but it still has more fragmentation to do first. I doubt I will see the beginning of the upswing - you might but I'm pretty sure I won't.

My opinion.

Winnie.

Yes, I do think you are right. We are on a downswing. Part of that is brought on by reality TV. I consider it the single most destructive force today, within popular culture. It is the absolute dumbing down of society. The dubbing of American films, without Thailand is not far behind, as a corrosive influence. I could cite a dozen others. But, you get the idea.

Without us they would all live on the streets. I see it as we are helping them, as the Thai society isn't. No laws that makes fathers pay for the children's. No social securities. 90% of tourists are here for sex. That boosts the society.

So no. The Lord isn't going to punish me for helping these ladies give food and shelter for their baby and family.

And i don't care what people think about my statement. What options would the girls have unemployed. With a baby. Uneducated. This is a go_______t failure. A social structure failure. An educational failure. An cultural behaviour that accepts this.

They have accepted this and so have i.

Damn this is going to be quoted a lot hahaha!

Your figure of 90% may have been the case back in the days when Tiger Wood's dad was serving in Vietnam, and came to Pattaya, and met his wife and the mother of Tiger in a bar. Maybe back in the 1960's. These days? Probably more like 12%. Just guessing. There are so many families now, and probably less than 2% of the Chinese tourists, who make up a third of the current crop of tourists, partake in any action. Thanks are changing. Society is evolving.

Nobody is going to punish you for enjoying yourself with a woman for hire, as long as you treat her with kindness and respect. Only the prudes, the naive Americans, and the moralists will attempt to do so.

The issue is not about enjoying yourself or the native Americans.

What you think is kindness and respect is clearly NOT, according to the experts, which you are not. YOU are adding to the psychological problems of young women. If that makes you feel like you have some integrity, fine.

Thanks. This is the first time you have uttered the word fine. Perhaps you are learning that wonderful quality of tolerance? It is such an attractive asset to have, in this life. Live and let live? Have you ever heard that expression?

For some of us, the extreme judgment leveled by guys like you, at the rest of the world is so tiresome. So trite, and so naive. You are not changing anything with your judgments. You are not bringing out positive change in the world one iota. There is not a single man who listens to your sermons, who is ever going to be affected by them. And you know why? There is nothing behind them. Just alot of hot air, and no moral conviction. Just prudish opinions, and feminist diatribes.

Some of us know the difference between kindness and respect, and treating a woman poorly. In your opinion treating a woman very kindly, but then paying her for sex is not kindness. But, getting abused by a western woman, who you are having sex with, in exchange for all kinds of gifts and prizes, is somehow permissible, and encouraged.

I only listen to some experts. Not all. As many of us know, the vast majority of the experts are typically wrong, on any particular subject. Is it even possible for your to process that thought?

And by the way, the term Native Americans refers to American Indians. Cherokees, Iroquois, Navajo, Apache. Is that who you were referencing?

Democracy building, American style, courtesy of Tiny George II, and his misfit band of thieves and miscreants. Saddam was a bad man. His son Uday was even worse. But, there are alot of bad men in the world. Those guys kept Iraq stable, ISIL did not exist while they were still around, Syria was stable, and the entire region, though living under repressive regimes no doubt, was stable. Then we came in, and wala. Presto. Instability, increased terrorism, and just generally bad news. Nearly every country the US touches turns to crap. Disastrous foreign policy, under neophyte, wanna be leaders.

A word of advice to the US. Leave the damn world alone. You do not know what you are doing, you have no vision or wisdom, and these countries do not want your foreign policy.

In the movie Hyena Road, which is an excellent depiction of the futility of both the Iraqi and the Afghan war, one of the actors, who plays one of the intelligence officers says: "There is little understanding of what the government sent in its fellow citizens to do on the nation’s behalf, Gross says. “We don’t understand these places. The conflict in Afghanistan was never supposed to go on for 15 years. We are in Afghanistan longer than we were in the First World War, the Second World War and the Korean War combined,” he says. “I think one of the problems with these long counterinsurgencies, it’s difficult to know where the end is. ‘What is the end status?’ as Pete says. It just arrives. One day there’s a memo sent out: ‘Hey, we’ve done our job.’ ”

Another great quote from that movie: "These people here. They have no use for what we have on offer. They don't want Justin Bieber or Tom Jefferson or our fricking pornography. They just want our money and a little bit of stability. So how do we win? There is no winning. Just an end game laid down by our state department".

Hello?!?!?!?! You do realize that Sadam and his minions committed mass scale human atrocities and genocide and is responsible for perhaps 500,000 deaths. His minions tortured people, burned people alive, melted people alive with vats of acid, gang raped women in fronton their families, impale victims with hot metal rods after smashing their toes and removing toenails, just burned off limbs so the victims would live, gouged eyes and forced millions of kurds into concentration camps where perhaps 1,000 a day would die and be tortured.

Yep, thing were real good and peaceful over the before the US involvement. . . . The fact is, these people are <deleted> idiots and animals and will behave like idiots and animals no matter what.

On a certain level, you sound like you are reading from the White House script. Do you know how people feel on the ground, in Iraq these days? Read this article, and listen to some of the quotes of one of Saddam's harshest critics. A guy who spent time in prison for criticizing him. See how he feels now, after 14 brutal years of war in his country.

Kadhim, like many Iraqis, blames the invaders for starting a chain of events that destroyed the country. He longs for the certainties and stability of Saddam's time.

First, he says, he realised it was not going to be liberation, but occupation. Then he hated the corruption, mismanagement and violence in the new Iraq. Most of all he despises Iraq's new leaders. "Saddam has gone, and we have one thousand Saddams now," he says. "It wasn't like this under Saddam. There was a system. There were ways. We didn't like him, but he was better than those people."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36706265

Without us they would all live on the streets. I see it as we are helping them, as the Thai society isn't. No laws that makes fathers pay for the children's. No social securities. 90% of tourists are here for sex. That boosts the society.

So no. The Lord isn't going to punish me for helping these ladies give food and shelter for their baby and family.

And i don't care what people think about my statement. What options would the girls have unemployed. With a baby. Uneducated. This is a go_______t failure. A social structure failure. An educational failure. An cultural behaviour that accepts this.

They have accepted this and so have i.

Damn this is going to be quoted a lot hahaha!

Your figure of 90% may have been the case back in the days when Tiger Wood's dad was serving in Vietnam, and came to Pattaya, and met his wife and the mother of Tiger in a bar. Maybe back in the 1960's. These days? Probably more like 12%. Just guessing. There are so many families now, and probably less than 2% of the Chinese tourists, who make up a third of the current crop of tourists, partake in any action. Thanks are changing. Society is evolving.

Nobody is going to punish you for enjoying yourself with a woman for hire, as long as you treat her with kindness and respect. Only the prudes, the naive Americans, and the moralists will attempt to do so.

Sex on it`s own is meaningless if not part of being in a loving relationship. And if some men, doesn`t matter what nationality they are, think that having pure sex is a substitute for being in a close bonding relationship they are going to find their lives becoming empty and meaningless. Sex is not all that it`s cut out to be especially if it becomes mechanical when it involves prostitutes. It`s like eating a basic meal that can be dull without the trimmings that go with it.

Again, to each his own. Some love the intimacy, and some love the casual sex. It is entirely up to the man, and the woman. It is not up to you to judge on any level, even one iota. Your judgment shows your extreme lack of depth, tolerance, compassion, understanding, and maturity. It is a caustic, crusading, intolerant attitude, with a substantial degree of moral judgment thrown in for good measure. Not an attractive blend.

I suggest you look in your dictionary to find out what intimacy means. Your post makes no sense.

Indeed, "it makes no sense", but "spidermike" will always defend his beloved Thai prostitutes.

First of all, they are not MY prostitutes. I am speaking in general terms here, and I am not addressing the use of prostitutes, as much as your condescension, and judgment of those that do. Who are you? Are you a prophet? Are you a realized being, without fault? There are already enough holier than thou preachers in this world. The problem is, they are only holy in their own eyes. Nothing more. For those of us who do not feel the need, to be a receptacle for their infinite wisdom, we are free to live our lives as we see fit, without men judging us, and looking down upon us. And my statement that some prefer casual sex, is something you do not seem able to understand. For you, it is intimate sex, or no sex at all. I know several men who have made a conscious decision to avoid a relationship. They have amazing lives. They are independent, travel as they please, and have nobody dictating anything to them. Do you think they are celibate? Absolutely not. They have many lovers. None are intimate. You are basically saying their lives are without merit, because they have done as you have done.

Do I have my facts straight here?

More than likely these punks have never been exposed to any sort of discipline in their lives. Most parents just refuse to impose limits on the kids, these days. So, some time in the military would probably give these troublemakers some limits, and create some boundaries for them. Look, if the parents refuse to do their jobs, let the drill sergeant slap these boys up the side of the head. It will probably make an impression.

I have a few innovative ideas.

1. Hire some competent people, within your administration. Make sure their background, is related to the field of expertise they are directing, or participating in. Hiring a man who owns a chain of shoes stores, to run the transportation department is not going to save lives, nor lead to innovation. You want to be innovative? Get rid of nepotism, and install an administration founded upon the concept of a meritocracy. That would be a first for this nation. That is innovation.

2. Start arresting high level men and women who are involved in trafficking. Not low hanging fruit. Anyone can do that. That is akin to the B2 case on Dark Tao. No, actually accomplish something. That would be innovation.

3. Stop talking, and start acting. Jawboning does not convince anyone of anything. Action speaks far louder. That is something we have seen very little of, from you lately. Now, that would be an innovation for you.

4. Abolish some of the punitive duties in certain areas of the import sector. A good place to start would be with the wines. Instead of a duty of 350-450%, which has all but killed the wine industry here, lower the tariff to 100%. The amount of wine bought here would go up by 1000% overnight. This would effectively double, or triple the amount collected by the government, and would create a vibrant industry that would employ tens of thousands. And it would boost tourism. Nobody likes to visit a dinosaur nation, with antiquated, protectionist, nationalistic policies, and a complete lack of innovation. It would not only make alot of people happy (moving the country forward?) but, it would be an innovative way to stimulate the economy you have done such a great job of stifling.

5. Hire a really good foreigner as a P.R. person. You certainly need it. You have dug yourself quite an impressive hole, with your immature hyperbole, and nationalistic nonsense. Filter everything you say through this person of experience. Your approval throughout the world will go up dramatically. Never, ever talk spontaneously. If you did that, this would be really innovative.

Sex on it`s own is meaningless if not part of being in a loving relationship. And if some men, doesn`t matter what nationality they are, think that having pure sex is a substitute for being in a close bonding relationship they are going to find their lives becoming empty and meaningless. Sex is not all that it`s cut out to be especially if it becomes mechanical when it involves prostitutes. It`s like eating a basic meal that can be dull without the trimmings that go with it.

Again, to each his own. Some love the intimacy, and some love the casual sex. It is entirely up to the man, and the woman. It is not up to you to judge on any level, even one iota. Your judgment shows your extreme lack of depth, tolerance, compassion, understanding, and maturity. It is a caustic, crusading, intolerant attitude, with a substantial degree of moral judgment thrown in for good measure. Not an attractive blend.

Democracy building, American style, courtesy of Tiny George II, and his misfit band of thieves and miscreants. Saddam was a bad man. His son Uday was even worse. But, there are alot of bad men in the world. Those guys kept Iraq stable, ISIL did not exist while they were still around, Syria was stable, and the entire region, though living under repressive regimes no doubt, was stable. Then we came in, and wala. Presto. Instability, increased terrorism, and just generally bad news. Nearly every country the US touches turns to crap. Disastrous foreign policy, under neophyte, wanna be leaders.

A word of advice to the US. Leave the damn world alone. You do not know what you are doing, you have no vision or wisdom, and these countries do not want your foreign policy.

In the movie Hyena Road, which is an excellent depiction of the futility of both the Iraqi and the Afghan war, one of the actors, who plays one of the intelligence officers says: "There is little understanding of what the government sent in its fellow citizens to do on the nation’s behalf, Gross says. “We don’t understand these places. The conflict in Afghanistan was never supposed to go on for 15 years. We are in Afghanistan longer than we were in the First World War, the Second World War and the Korean War combined,” he says. “I think one of the problems with these long counterinsurgencies, it’s difficult to know where the end is. ‘What is the end status?’ as Pete says. It just arrives. One day there’s a memo sent out: ‘Hey, we’ve done our job.’ ”

Another great quote from that movie: "These people here. They have no use for what we have on offer. They don't want Justin Bieber or Tom Jefferson or our fricking pornography. They just want our money and a little bit of stability. So how do we win? There is no winning. Just an end game laid down by our state department".

Hello?!?!?!?! You do realize that Sadam and his minions committed mass scale human atrocities and genocide and is responsible for perhaps 500,000 deaths. His minions tortured people, burned people alive, melted people alive with vats of acid, gang raped women in fronton their families, impale victims with hot metal rods after smashing their toes and removing toenails, just burned off limbs so the victims would live, gouged eyes and forced millions of kurds into concentration camps where perhaps 1,000 a day would die and be tortured.

Yep, thing were real good and peaceful over the before the US involvement. . . . The fact is, these people are <deleted> idiots and animals and will behave like idiots and animals no matter what.

I never said Saddam was a good guy. Never. But, what about Kim the Fat, or Mugabe, or the Castro brothers, or Hun Sen, or any of a number of other despot leaders around the world? What do we do? Start a war in each of their countries? There is something to be said for stability in a region. The pot that the US has stirred up in Iraq is something we will be contending with for the rest of our lives. It has created a staggering degree of instability, is primarily responsible for the enormous growth of terrorism in the region, and is generally a horrible situation that could have been easily avoided.