jayboy

I agree the most popular PM in the last decades actions are no becoming though.

Says WHO? Oh right. You and ginjang, who is suspiciously absent from this thread. He been commandeered into adjusting attitudes and left you to hold the fort?

I suspect the usual suspects have absented themselves in reaction to the earlier reference to the "Junta's dogs". A little too close for comfort.

Elite, internal divisions? So the article should read four-way strife? More info pls.

I don't normally feed trolls, especially the more asinine ones.However there may be serious members who wish to research on line the growing evidence of Priv C unhappiness with developments.

While taking into account your uncritical devotion to the General, your statement is just childish.Most Thais are neither hardcore red or yellows; it is they who have become disillusioned.More critically in my view though not mentioned in the article are the elite internal divisions.

While taking into account your condescending BS, did I say anything about ALL Thais?

Did I?

I didn't even say anything about MOST Thais.

No you didn't.I did.

If he's making both the red shirts and the yellow shirts unhappy, he must be doing something right.

While taking into account your uncritical devotion to the General, your statement is just childish.Most Thais are neither hardcore red or yellows; it is they who have become disillusioned.More critically in my view though not mentioned in the article are the elite internal divisions.

While taking into account your condescending BS, did I say anything about ALL Thais?

Did I?

If he's making both the red shirts and the yellow shirts unhappy, he must be doing something right.

While taking into account your uncritical devotion to the General, your statement is just childish.Most Thais are neither hardcore red or yellows; it is they who have become disillusioned.More critically in my view though not mentioned in the article are the elite internal divisions.

I am REALLY unimpressed with this Ambassador

Don't agree at all.I have met him a few times and he seems first class - intelligent,principled and down to earth.But he is an ambassador and it is not his role to be confrontational or abrasive.If UK interests and citizens are to be protected the channel of communication must be kept open, however much he would personally like to administer a painful slap.

This is the Thai official release of the meeting and therefore of course dishonest and misleading.If it was a post on Thai Visa the moderators would rightfully object.

The Twitter feed of the Ambassador made it very clear he pressed Prayuth to restore democracy by next year and to respect human rights.I gather this was not a friendly meeting though no doubt there was a level of courtesy.

Remember when looking at future releases from the Government.Spin is probably inevitable but these people transcend spin into lies on many occasions.

impose an heritance tax, but just to be sure, he wants to avoid it just a little bit ... as his part would have been paying 60 million baht on a 600 million estate ...

DO WHAT I SAY, DON'T DO WHAT I DO

Back tax for something from 18 months ago for law that hasn't even been enacted yet?

A bit like trying to prosecute someone for an alleged offence under a constitution that has already been torn up!

But this potential disaster for Prayuth has nothing to do with the proposed inheritance tax.

Snig27 post # 9

Indeed - you have to wonder what will happen to these poor kids. How dare they think for themselves.

(Waiting for some idiot to mention Thaksin now, as in "what about under Thaksin?")

Edit: I see I was too late.

An interesting comment there Snig27. You yourself posted the first ''Thaksin '' comment.

(Waiting for some idiot to mention Thaksin now, as in "what about under Thaksin?")

Indeed - you have to wonder what will happen to these poor kids. How dare they think for themselves.

(Waiting for some idiot to mention Thaksin now, as in "what about under Thaksin?")

Think before you post and do not judge yourself so harshly

Er no he didn't.He responded to a post alluding to similar incidents in the 12 years before the coup - though I cannot think of any.

I think that a competition should be established in which the coup cheerleaders can compete among themselves.For every unjust, ill conceived or ludicrous act of the current government the aim will be to come up with an irrelevant piece of "whataboutery" preferably invoking or alluding to Thaksin.

As a prime minister it does matter what your family is doing. Wasn't this not the biggest reason why YL was overthrown for. (Because of her brother)..

Anyway it sounds quite strange..and this all after the inheritance tax tax is on the way. And a company which has been formed and immediately took over the land.

Don't know but I think that you are spot on here.......So is he & or his family possibly avoiding the payment of a tax that his own government is about to introduce.............Freakin priceless !!!!

What is the problem with someone doing a financial transaction to avoid tax before the law gets changed?

It's something that everyone can do. It's not like it's a secret that the law is going to change.

I don't think the issue is anything to do with inheritance tax.Still nice try to deflect the matter.It's amusing however to see the cheerleaders for military dictatorship contort themselves to excuse what is at very minimum a shocking lack of transparency.

A shocking lack of transparency would be NOT informing relevant authorities about the sale. Or hiding the asset's in maids and gardeners names.. did that happen here.. no!

Nonsense.It would have been impossible to hide his great wealth or the land sale given his tiny salary.The lack of transparency relates to the possibility of a Sino Thai tycoon buying influence not to mention Prayuth's refusal to answer reasonable questions,

I'm not sure why you invoke Thaksin who is far from transparent In his dealings.Are you suggesting we should measure Prayuth by Thaksin' s low standards?

As a prime minister it does matter what your family is doing. Wasn't this not the biggest reason why YL was overthrown for. (Because of her brother)..

Anyway it sounds quite strange..and this all after the inheritance tax tax is on the way. And a company which has been formed and immediately took over the land.

Don't know but I think that you are spot on here.......So is he & or his family possibly avoiding the payment of a tax that his own government is about to introduce.............Freakin priceless !!!!

What is the problem with someone doing a financial transaction to avoid tax before the law gets changed?

It's something that everyone can do. It's not like it's a secret that the law is going to change.

I don't think the issue is anything to do with inheritance tax.Still nice try to deflect the matter.It's amusing however to see the cheerleaders for military dictatorship contort themselves to excuse what is at very minimum a shocking lack of transparency.

maybe some of you self professed smart people on here that have managed to create pages and pages of (deleted) would like to explain to a layman like me what exactly the good general has done wrong here

He declared his assets (like he should) hiding nothing

His family sold some land (up to them)

They were well aware of inheritance tax being looked at these last few weeks just like every other person in Thailand - pretty sure if I was Thai and had something to hand down I'd hired an accountant and been quick about it before it gets slapped with 10% tax

IMO there is nothing to see here - move along

He may not have done anything wrong.However more investigation is needed because there are some points of concern, most of which have been flagged in this thread.A pressing issue is clarification of the role and motives of Khun Charoen.

I have an open mind.You clearly do not although from your simple minded comments I suspect you don't understand the genuine concerns.

Prayuth hardly helps his cause given his petulant and immature response to reasonable questions.Remember this was the fellow who promised to root out corruption so transparency in his own affairs is essential.

It's nobody elses business - he declared his assets to the world - don't you get it

If his father was smart enough to buy a plot of land 50 years ago for the family then it seems to have worked out pretty well

I guess as you say (with insult) my small mind just can't handle it - right ?

Apparently not as you have failed to deal with the most toxic aspect - agreed the jury still out on a matter that needs to be explained - namely Charoen buying influence.

maybe some of you self professed smart people on here that have managed to create pages and pages of (deleted) would like to explain to a layman like me what exactly the good general has done wrong here

He declared his assets (like he should) hiding nothing

His family sold some land (up to them)

They were well aware of inheritance tax being looked at these last few weeks just like every other person in Thailand - pretty sure if I was Thai and had something to hand down I'd hired an accountant and been quick about it before it gets slapped with 10% tax

IMO there is nothing to see here - move along

He may not have done anything wrong.However more investigation is needed because there are some points of concern, most of which have been flagged in this thread.A pressing issue is clarification of the role and motives of Khun Charoen.

I have an open mind.You clearly do not although from your simple minded comments I suspect you don't understand the genuine concerns.

Prayuth hardly helps his cause given his petulant and immature response to reasonable questions.Remember this was the fellow who promised to root out corruption so transparency in his own affairs is essential.

In my naivety I was very positive that the new regime in Thailand would bring about genunie change regarding corruption etc, despite the manner in which the current PM 'acquired' his position.

I then read stories in the press of his collection of luxury watches, executive cars and expensive jewellery. Not bad for a man who officially has never earned my than $45,000 per year.

Now I read this story about land deals totalling 600 million THB.

600 million Baht!

That's quite phenominal. That's not just a matter of selling a couple rai of rice paddies. That's a land deal on a huge scale.

So despite all of his talk on anti-corruption is it not unreasonable to say that the current PM is no better than the mob he replaced?

This country will never learn. Corruption will be here long, long after the rest of us has gone.

His father sold the land. The question to ask is how much did his father earn per year.

No that's not the question.Many Thais have low salaries but hold valuable family land.The question is who purchased the land, did they pay a commercial price and if not why not.

Was the consortium put together hastily or did they take 12 months to put it together, and then once they put it together, the deal got done?

The Shin corp deal is different. It couldn't get done without the law change, but the deal was done very quickly once it was changed. Obviously they knew well ahead of time that the laws were going to change.

This was a standard land deal. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing stopping the deal from going through earlier. There were no laws changed to allow the deal to go through.

I have no doubt that there was dodgy dealings in his father getting the land (or getting the money to buy the land) originally, but there is probably no issue with the actual sale of the land.

You are jumping to conclusions in your final paragraph.There is potentially a huge and toxic problem in the sale of the land if Charoen was involved and if there was significant reason to doubt that commercial criteria were applied.I don't think you are naive so there is no need to spell more of this out.It certainly needs to be investigated.

Sorry ... who's jumping to conclusions?

You - in suggesting there was probably no issue with the sale of the land.Hence my post.

If there was nothing queer about the deal, why is the PM getting so upset? His reaction makes my 'suspicion antennae' quiver. Seems he's got something to hide. It is high time reporters got over centuries of culture of kowtowing to their 'betters' and became the questioning voice of the people. The reporter is brave and I wish him every success.

The sale is probably completely legitimate.

How his father came to own the land in the first place on the other hand ...

A consortium to purchase the land was put together rather hastily; only a few days before the sale. Knowing Thailand ways of doing business and knowing how real-estate deals in the US can take considerable time to work out prices and other details, this all strikes me as odd. Remember that when Dr. Thaksin had the foreign ownership laws for telecoms changed so that the investment arm of the Singapore government could buy 49% of ShinCorp. and, within days, the sale went through with all the details having already been worked out? That stank of collusion and conspiracy. There is enough suspicion in my mind that an independent inquiry is required to either clear or condemn this land deal. Maybe the PM is not guilty but he should not have the authority to cover for his father's possible wrongdoing.

Was the consortium put together hastily or did they take 12 months to put it together, and then once they put it together, the deal got done?

The Shin corp deal is different. It couldn't get done without the law change, but the deal was done very quickly once it was changed. Obviously they knew well ahead of time that the laws were going to change.

This was a standard land deal. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing stopping the deal from going through earlier. There were no laws changed to allow the deal to go through.

I have no doubt that there was dodgy dealings in his father getting the land (or getting the money to buy the land) originally, but there is probably no issue with the actual sale of the land.

You are jumping to conclusions in your final paragraph.There is potentially a huge and toxic problem in the sale of the land if Charoen was involved and if there was significant reason to doubt that commercial criteria were applied.I don't think you are naive so there is no need to spell more of this out.It certainly needs to be investigated.

One is reminded of a response by the editor of the British satirical magazine Private Eye to a letter from the lawyers to some corrupt goon the mag was lampooning.The lawyers letter essentially said their attitude to damages would be determined by the nature of the response to the said letter.Private Eye responded politely to the letter, noting that a response was required and helpfully advised that the response was "F*** O**"

That's the spirit of a free press.

She wasn't much of a P.M but she was also welcomed warmly in Australia. The current dear leader isn't even recognised as a diplomat same goes for his army friends.

Seems the British don't follow the Australians.

The British and Australians have precisely the same view of the military Junta and its puppet government.Restore democracy and hold early elections.

That's not what chooka was contending.

My reply highlighted the difference.

Ergo, not precisely the same view.

It's as near the same as makes no difference.In view of the criminality involved in overthrowing an elected government the Australians have banned entry to the felons involved.I don't think the British have done this but Prayuth and his accomplices in crime have as much chance of visiting the UK as I have of being decapitated by an errant frisbee.

She wasn't much of a P.M but she was also welcomed warmly in Australia. The current dear leader isn't even recognised as a diplomat same goes for his army friends.

Seems the British don't follow the Australians.

The British and Australians have precisely the same view of the military Junta and its puppet government.Restore democracy and hold early elections.

The United Kingdom Members of Parliament, Roger Godsiff, Graham Brady, and David Amess, have paid a courtesy call to the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Thailand

Looks like a very cordial and friendly visit between the two allies.

(click to enlarge)

Read into it what you like.It is a visit by members of the House of Commons committee responsible for Thailand.I suggest you await their report before drawing conclusions.I am sure the meeting was polite but I suspect some hard truths were conveyed.

The courtesy visit to the Thai ministry of foreign affairs has nothing to do with anything except these clowns justifying the expenses paid trip to Thailand. Amess is the same w*nker that got questioned about his trips to the Maldives a few years back. He's nothing but a blagger on a free trip.

OK you asked for it---sorry folks but he shot himself in the foot. WHAT ABOUT YINGLUCKS 50 trips then ???

Khun Yingluck as the democratically elected Prime Minister was received cordially on her overseas visits.In the UK she had a private audience with Queen Elizabeth and a private meeting at No 10 with David Cameron.President Obama also received her enthusiastically.The reception elsewhere was the same.Nobody, least of all herself, claimed she was a foreign policy expert but she enhanced the image of Thailand enormously after the disastrous regime of Abhisit and his awful terrorist sympathising Foreign Minister Kasit.A fairly elected PM has legitimacy not only of course in Thailand but worldwide as well.No need to comment on how a leader without legitimacy is viewed abroad.

At very least she was not reduced to picking her nose in the back row of regional and international leaders, after being snubbed by most of them.

Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922–43), Germany (1933–45), and Spain (1939–75)—Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco—were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936–45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See also totalitarianism; neofascism.

Pretty much says it all...

actually I think you would be surprised at the result if you had posed the question "who or what organisation" does this sound like in Thailand

It does not sound like the current government who are currently in the process of much needed reforms in this country with a very clear agenda to get the job done and have elections once completed - at no time have I heard anything different - and those that are seen to be trying to derail this process are silenced which is all fine by me

This dimbulb doesn't seem to understand the implications of what he is saying. namely:

"those that are seen to be trying to derail this process are silenced which is all fine by me"

Most cheerleaders for dictatorship make some pretence to justify their slavishness.This fellow doesn't even manage that.In his world view those who attempt to question the process should be silenced, a position adopted by all totalitarian states.The comical aspect is that foreigners of this persuasion don't seem to be able to keep track of Thai opinion (much of it favourable to the current government) which has roundly condemned the stupidity and ugliness of this particular military intervention.The Bangkok Post made a valid point this morning that Thaksin was also guilty of intimidating the media but he did it with much more subtlety, most by pressurising media bosses.The distinguishing charecteristic in the current case was the sheer ugliness of it, jumped up army officers swaggering in to curb free expression.

Actually I did not come up with that very appropriate nickname, one of the other TV members did, I just use it because the hat fits.

Well, it's hilariously appropriate, so thanks for introducing me to it, and kudos to whatever otter member coined ThaiRouge.

If everyone who thought he was a troll put him on their ignore list he would be directing his troll posts at other trolls and/or genuine Shin/red supporters. Bit of a waste of time for him to post then, as he is only looking for "bites".

Seems every Thailand forum has a (single) handful of that type - kinda funny that they always somehow believe they are in the majority.

In fact, the absolute silence originating from the ThaiRouge is pretty much sufficient evidence how much of a fringe (albeit loud and violent) they were originally, and that once deprived of Shin money, their spoutings and support have virtually dried up and evaporated. Poof!

As to forum opinion I'm not sure you are right but in any event I'm not sure whether it is indicative of anything.

As to the relative silence of the redshirts I agree with you.There have been some interesting articles on line on the reasons for this.I wouldn't assume however that this is because the movement has evaporated.One of the most difficult lessons for some foreigners to grasp is that with the massive changes in Thai society in the last twenty years and the consequent decline in deferential behaviour, Thaksin merely was the catalyst, one who took advantage of a newly politicised majority.If he hadn't done that another political force would have done - perhaps even the Democrat Party if it had been more imaginatively led.Looking forward five or ten years it's not too fanciful that some of those now supporting dictatorship will look back nostalgically on Yingluck's government.Remember that she and her brother shared most of the values of the unelected elites and their Sino Thai middle class backers.The risk now is that they will lose much more than would have been the case if they had been less myopic and agreed on a historic compromise in which Thaksin would have had his influence curbed but the Thai people given the chances to choose their own government without interference from the military or the courts.

Big nose has asked what planet I'm from.

Let's try planet democracy .

The one thing that simply amazes me about the yellow dem junta supporters on here.

You are in a foreign country openly cheering on an unelected junta that has taken power by the barrel of a gun and you openly support an unelectable mob of elites that can't win an election so they have to rely on the military to do it for them.

The elected government under the constitution called for an election yet yellow thugs would not allow people to vote at polling stations and the police and military stood by and did nothing.

So you bag me with one liners or abuse but I ask you guys if it was in your own home country would you allow this to happen ?

When you looked at the list of ideals that form the state of democracy did you bother reading past the one that concerned free and fair elections ?

There are many more items on that list, none of which your team seemed to adhere to.

They could not even get the first one right with people being offered money to vote for them, rash promises made in order to attain votes, and intimidation of people who dared to run against them.

So stop crapping on about the democracy thing, it seems to be the only argument you have and it is full of holes.

So you bag me with one liners or abuse but I ask you guys if it was in your own home country would you allow this to happen ?

No, it would not be allowed in my home country, but it would never had got to this stage in the first place.

The Shins would all be in prison, their despicable poor excuses for political parties would not be allowed to run in the elections, their evil terrorist arm The ThaiRouge would have been blown away if they even thought about doing what they did in 2010, any that were not blown away would be in prison and their organization would be banned, like any terror organization should be.

So, there would be no need for a coup and your silly question is regarding a moot point.

Stop your trolling, you are just annoying people now.

Though I might have expressed the position slightly differently, The Stuttering Parrot is correct in all essentials in his analysis.Firstly there is little doubt that the Junta and its puppet government are determined to eradicate all traces of Thaksin's influence and this in my view will include, at very least, a 5 year ban on Yingluck.Secondly in a free and fair election - say in one year's time - all the evidence suggests that Yingluck would be easily returned to power if she was allowed to stand.This may be an unpleasant truth to contemplate for those that speak in an ignorant and unpleasant way about "crapping on about the democracy thing" - but truth it remains.Thirdly, your suggestion that Yingluck did not win a fair election victory is totally discredited by all serious sources not least Khun Abhisit.Even the Junta doesn't take that line, preferring to concentrate its efforts on educating the people into the "right way of thinking".

Meanwhile even supporters of the coup are beginning to understand that it took Thailand out of the frying pan into the fire.The international contempt for the new leadership has turned out even more acute than I had expected - with the leadership essentially given the cold shoulder internationally.

The Thai government has announced it is to make significant changes to the Foreign Business Act. Some of the proposed changes are very worrying to British businesses that have invested huge amounts in Thailand. The direction Thailand is taking is unclear.

One would imagine this would have been the topic uppermost in the MP's minds and on their agenda, hoping to gain some clarification.

Yes you are almost certainly right.The excellent British Ambassador,Mark Kent has been surprisingly outspoken about this on his blog.