jayboy

A lot of the "troubles" with Thai democracy is not in the need for new rules and laws, it is the total lack of enforcement of existing laws.

If the bureaucracy and judiciary enforced the existing laws without fear or favour this would do a lot towards the acceptance of real democracy. This should include things like collecting the taxes due rather than those "negotiated", providing the needed cash flow for the government to implement their projects and to be able to pay realistic wage to the civil servants.

Thai democracy has always been fragile.A basic flaw is that the rich and powerful can't bear an electoral result which is not to their liking.Having said that I agree there are useful reforms to be made on financing, and there are plenty of examples from other countries - no need to reinvent the wheel though of course local needs should be taken into account.As usual a dominant theme is the need to weaken party discipline, and the influence of party leaders.This is misleading since party discipline is normal and necessary.What do people think the Whips Office in the House of Commons does? In Thailand those who rage against politicians are usually speaking code - ie we don't like democratic civilian control where the unwashed masses determine policy.Ditto the hypocrisy on populism, as though democratic countries all over the world don't cater to the peoples needs.

America and Europe are actually scared of Thailand falling into the arms of China. It's Europe and America's job to visit the junta with gifts, just to try and stop Thailand moving towards China. There's no need for the general to go to America and Europe.

As for Burma, Cambodia,Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia and most of the other ASEAN countries, I think they need Thailand more than Thailand needs them. Why go to their countries when THEY can turn up in Bangkok and pay homage instead ?

Even Singapore, the size of the little country, does Thailand need to bow down and pay homage to little Singapore, bearing in mind that Malaysia can "switch off" Singapore whenever it feels like it ? Thailand after all, doesn't need to pay homage to Malaysia.

Poor analysis.Thailand has no enemies and retains a substantial amount of goodwill.It is also not particularly central to the interests of the great powers - China,US in particular.The theory that the Junta has some kind of leverage because of regional rivalry between these powers is mistaken.

China in particular will be friendly towards any Thai administration but it is a relationship based on self interest.Broadly speaking the US is in the same position but Thailand would be mistaken to think one can be played off against the other.Both of these regional powers prefer to deal with governments that are legitimate.

Your comments on ASEAN relationships are foolish particularly the suggestion that these countries will pay court to Thailand or indeed have any particular deference at all.

Essentially Thailand is in a diplomatic bind of its own making.Thailand does need good relationships with the outside world.These will not achieved by the Junta.The best that can be hoped for is minimal damage now and an early return to an elected democracy.

Jayboy

You say that Thailand is not of great interest to China and America ? I beg to differ ! The percentage of tourists coming to Thailand who are from China will increase as time goes by, and China is certainly looking to set up investments in Thailand. Yes, China is only interested in making a profit for itself, but that's the same as any other country. As for America, I really do think that America is obssesed with reigning in the Chinese giant, America wants to reduce China's influence in Thailand.

America also wants a military presence in the area, and Thailand is their only option in mainland South-East Asia. Burma and Cambodia don't want a US military presence, Laos still remembers the mass bombings during the Vietnam war, and Vietnam, well, they fought a war to NOT have American soldiers on Vietnamese soil. So America's desire to reign in China and to have a military presence in Thailand will mean that Washington needs Thailand.

I was only trying to say that Cambodia and Laos are not actually big deal countries. Burma ? Does Thailand need Burma more than Burma needs Thailand ? Surely not. A club involving Laos, Burma and Cambodia needs to have Thailand in it as well. Obviously, them three neighbouring countries will be hampered in their trade with each other if Thailand does not play ball with them. Thailand is, literally, in the middle of the area.

Does the junta really need to turn up in Singapore ? I think that the percentage of tourists in Thailand who are from Singapore is not that great, and it's not as if Singapore's trade and economy is anywhere near as big as China.

Yes, the USA has to make it look like it is trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. The US government has to give this impression in order to justify it's foreign policy to the American people, America is, a democracy. But in reality, we all know that Washington has not got a problem with dealing with non-democratic governments !

1. I do not argue Thailand is not of interest to the great powers.I argue that the Junta would be ill advised to seek much leverage from this fact.Having said that Thailand is not a greatly significant country in the strategic sense.It's no longer an American vassal state and has a degree of independence from Chinese influence.This is unlikely to change very much whatever type of regime is in power in Bangkok.

2.You underestimate the extent to which many ASEAN countries are alarmed at the prospect of Chinese hegemony.Vietnam for example despite the war is far more suspicious of China than the U.S.Indonesia and Philippines are also keen to preserve American influence in the region.

3.The US ( and in fact all major developed countries) regard Thailand as being in the democratic camp.So do the Thais including the Junta.It's not really relevant to compare Thailand with Saudi Arabia or China which have never been democratic.

Hope they drum this into them -

"Democracies conduct regular free and fair elections open to all citizens. Elections in a democracy cannot be facades that dictators or a single party hide behind, but authentic competitions for the support of the people."

Thailand never was a North Korea or similar.Democracy here was imperfect for many reasons not least because the unelected elites refused to accept the will of the people.However as all independent local and international agencies confirmed, elections have been held here to acceptable standards in which all parties were able to compete.One does not find the likes of Abhisit disputing this.

America and Europe are actually scared of Thailand falling into the arms of China. It's Europe and America's job to visit the junta with gifts, just to try and stop Thailand moving towards China. There's no need for the general to go to America and Europe.

As for Burma, Cambodia,Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia and most of the other ASEAN countries, I think they need Thailand more than Thailand needs them. Why go to their countries when THEY can turn up in Bangkok and pay homage instead ?

Even Singapore, the size of the little country, does Thailand need to bow down and pay homage to little Singapore, bearing in mind that Malaysia can "switch off" Singapore whenever it feels like it ? Thailand after all, doesn't need to pay homage to Malaysia.

Poor analysis.Thailand has no enemies and retains a substantial amount of goodwill.It is also not particularly central to the interests of the great powers - China,US in particular.The theory that the Junta has some kind of leverage because of regional rivalry between these powers is mistaken.

China in particular will be friendly towards any Thai administration but it is a relationship based on self interest.Broadly speaking the US is in the same position but Thailand would be mistaken to think one can be played off against the other.Both of these regional powers prefer to deal with governments that are legitimate.

Your comments on ASEAN relationships are foolish particularly the suggestion that these countries will pay court to Thailand or indeed have any particular deference at all.

Essentially Thailand is in a diplomatic bind of its own making.Thailand does need good relationships with the outside world.These will not achieved by the Junta.The best that can be hoped for is minimal damage now and an early return to an elected democracy.

He will certainly be able to visit ASEAN countries given the principle of non interference in each others affairs.China is also a possibility though I suspect Beijing is much too canny to place to much money on this nag.Perhapd there are some third world dumps that would be prepared to receive him.

Elsewhere he will get the cold shoulder.Someone should tell him that not being in a hurry to travel abroad is not really that problematic if invitations are not received.

I doubt if he will be the "frequent flyer" Yingluck was, but then again he has much to do at home repairing the damage done in the last 3 years. Very hard to steer the ship when you are tripping around the world with a huge entourage and an abundance of suitcases just waiting to be filled with booty, paid for by the taxpayer, of course.

It would take a certain amount of intelligence and insight to work that out. Doubt if Yingluck or too many of her "followers" would qualify.

And I doubt if the General would be too concerned about all the anti-junta comments found on forums. He is much smarter than that.

Strange that the little band of quislings in their nauseating "Napoleon is always right" chants ( the General is too smart for that!) are strangely reminiscent of the extreme Thaksin devotees in their oily enthusiasm.

In a year's time even they will be embarrassed by their current posterior worship.

He will certainly be able to visit ASEAN countries given the principle of non interference in each others affairs.China is also a possibility though I suspect Beijing is much too canny to place to much money on this nag.Perhapd there are some third world dumps that would be prepared to receive him.

Elsewhere he will get the cold shoulder.Someone should tell him that not being in a hurry to travel abroad is not really that problematic if invitations are not received.

The third world dumps were already covered by his predecessor on her grand world tour freebie. Wasn't there reports of the Thai foreign minister, her cousin, trying to solicit invitations for her to certain countries?

No one seems to be giving Thailand the cold shoulder, apart from the silly Aussies who no one takes seriously. The usual political rhetoric, indignation, and then back to business.

Iraq, Syria, ISIS, Russian military expansion and warmongering, will be a tad more prominent than one of Thailand's coup cycles.

Don't be so ridiculous.As a democratically elected leader Yingluck was received by all the world's key leaders including Obama,Cameron and Queen Elizabeth.Prayuth can only dream of achieving a tiny fraction of his predecessor's international legitimacy.

Perhaps now it will become apparent to certain posters on here that the ability for the public to make their choice by voting is actually quite important in the democratic scale of things.........

you are waaaay too optimistic.

The public can vote once the army has cleared up all the mess of corruption and eliminated undesirable politicians ffrom the political scene.

This is what every one seems to want except people like you and your red shirt pals, of course

You speak only for yourself and like minded low grade foreign reactionaries.Many intelligent and well educated Thais, who could certainly not be described as red shirt pals ( to use your idiotic expression) are deeply concerned at the authoritarianism of the ruling Junta.And once again people like you overlook that the Thai army is itself monstrously corrupt - yet on this front so far not a word.

Come on, jayboy, spare us the (ultra left labour wing) party politics from your home country.

Lots of common Thais seems fairly happy, even if that upsets 'intelligent and well educated' others.

As for monstrously corrupt, I guess this is neither the time nor the place to ask for details

If a distaste for military dictatorship means in your imagination,ultra left wing politics - then it's hard to have a rational discussion.

But you are correct in one sense that the mainly Sino Thai middle class in Bangkok is somewhat complacent at present.

The passage of time will only serve to dispel the initial euphoria even from this myopic minority - indeed it is already evaporating as the economy weakens.

A Thai assurance. Solid as a rock. It's a certainty that this guy didn't "have a chance to explain the political situation in Thailand" to Mr. Obama. He may have met him on an assembly line handshake but it's not likely that he explained anything directly to Obama.

Please give the man some respect.If he said he had a deep conversation with Obama then he should be believed.He will have explained that it was necessary to destroy democracy in Thailand in order to preserve it.He will have put Obama right on his misunderstanding about the coup and explained in detail the virtues of the sufficiency economy ( and why Bangkok fat cats should be exempted from its application).Obama will have been very impressed and let's hear no more of the ridiculous suggestion that the president was other than stunned by the intelligence and wit of his very important Thai visitor.

Perhaps now it will become apparent to certain posters on here that the ability for the public to make their choice by voting is actually quite important in the democratic scale of things.........

you are waaaay too optimistic.

The public can vote once the army has cleared up all the mess of corruption and eliminated undesirable politicians ffrom the political scene.

This is what every one seems to want except people like you and your red shirt pals, of course

You speak only for yourself and like minded low grade foreign reactionaries.Many intelligent and well educated Thais, who could certainly not be described as red shirt pals ( to use your idiotic expression) are deeply concerned at the authoritarianism of the ruling Junta.And once again people like you overlook that the Thai army is itself monstrously corrupt - yet on this front so far not a word.

"...the focus will be placed on the sufficiency economy concept, the government’s endeavor towards national reform and sustainable democracy and Thailand’s role in tackling global issues, ranging from human trafficking to environmental problems."

The rest of the General Assembly will by holding its breath and listening to every word, since Thailand is recognized to be a world leader in all three categories.

Perhaps it would serve Gen Tanasak better if he listened to representatives of other countries that have achieved healthy economies, sustainable democratic governments and have successfully tackled the aforementioned global issues.

Credit where credit is due.Thailand's splendid record on preserving the environment and upholding human rights is well known to all but no harm will be done by reminding the General Assembly.It is also excellent that he will broadcast the merits of the Sufficiency Economy which teaches all to be happy and contentedly know their place, a wonderful example for a troubled world.

Bon voyage General and don't be influenced by those unworthy cynics who have had the nerve to suggest you are an absurd throwback who is comically out of his depth about to be cold shouldered by the rest of the world.Ignore them because you have the best of the Thai Visa community behind you.

I wonder how many PTP MPs attended red shirt rallies in the months before the coup.

No idea, maybe a few.But if some did I am not aware they lied about it.Frankly the photograph of Abhisit enjoying a snog with Suthep and holding a whistle says it all.

Did Abhisit lie about it?

He is and was the Democrat leader.

Seriously are you not slightly ashamed of yourself in seeking to defend the indefensible?

I wonder how many PTP MPs attended red shirt rallies in the months before the coup.

No idea, maybe a few.But if some did I am not aware they lied about it.Frankly the photograph of Abhisit enjoying a snog with Suthep and holding a whistle says it all.

Did Abhisit lie about it?

He is and was the Democrat leader.

Seriously are you not slightly ashamed of yourself in seeking to defend the indefensible?

I wonder how many PTP MPs attended red shirt rallies in the months before the coup.

No idea, maybe a few.But if some did I am not aware they lied about it.Frankly the photograph of Abhisit enjoying a snog with Suthep and holding a whistle says it all.

Did Abhisit lie about it?

He is and was the Democrat leader.

Seriously are you not slightly ashamed of yourself in seeking to defend the indefensible?

I wonder how many PTP MPs attended red shirt rallies in the months before the coup.

No idea, maybe a few.But if some did I am not aware they lied about it.Frankly the photograph of Abhisit enjoying a snog with Suthep and holding a whistle says it all.

No one can doubt his intelligence or resolve to move Thailand forwards, especially in comparison to Pheua Thai dinosaurs such as Chalerm and Plodprasop, but he's handicapped by his privileged city boy image and will never be accepted by the farmers upcountry.

His time could come again but I think for now it's time for the Democrats to change leaders and install Dr Surin, however Mark is stubborn and still believes he's the best man for the job. He's become a bit authoritarian himself too, he said the ex Democrat MPs should not stand as candidates for the Reform Council, yet there was no party resolution stating this.

His high intelligence and ability was never in doubt and I agree he is preferable to the PTP dinosaurs.But he is a bit Jurassic himself and has no viable plan to move Thailand forward, not least because he is part of the problem.It is not sufficient to raise an occasional bleat when the Junta makes a misstep, his current strategy.I don't rule out entirely the possibility that his time could come round again but it seems unlikely not only because of the events of 2010 (it's pointess to go over that ground again but nobody rational would deny Abhisit was damaged by the experience) but also because of his character defects - surly,lacking in generosity of spirit, lack of empathy etc.He has his strong points - innate decency, broad vision etc but the total package is not fit for pupose.Surin as an alternative is with respect a silly idea - also contaminated by events prior to the coup, a bureaucrat at heart, too close to the unelected elites, too keen to please everybody and ending by pleasing nobody and (though no fault of his obviously and he is certainly no zealot) with a religious background that would be problematic.I would go out on a limb and suggest the Dems should find a leader that is not contaminated by recent events.I don't think the city boy image need be an impediment in itself if other qualities are present - empathy etc.Korn for example has the right instincts to make a national leader but he too is handicapped by an association with fanatacism (not personal but close to him).Final thought- you might not credit it but all my instincts yearn for Abhisit to come good.If he could show an extraordinary degree of courage and principle right now, he could perhaps shake off the past and position himself to take the country forward for the benefit of ALL Thais.But alas on past history, courage is not a prominent part of his character.

Prayuth was elected. He won with a more than 97% majority in the voting counting during the election.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753576-prayuth-elected-as-the-29th-thai-pm/

Being elected by the people you appointed doesn't really count.

In the brave new world of El Cretino, it does.

The New York Times in an editorial piece (ie the newspaper's view) sets out the position well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/opinion/editing-out-thailands-past.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar%2C{%222%22%3A%22RI%3A13%22}

Seriously, if this is true, it is the worst thing I have heard about the Junta since it took over the running of the country.

If I had anything to do with the education system in Thailand I would have a text book created which chronicled the entire life and times of Thaksin Shinawatra, and I would force every student in Thailand to read it, study it, and test them on it to make sure they knew the truth about this hideous excuse for a human being.

The country would be better off if you cut out the bs and gave it to them (school students) straight.

I can imagine some Thai people looking at him as an embarrassment or a threat but he should not be hidden away and forgotten..

But who would write the text book ? If it was a crude propaganda job of the type you obviously prefer, students would see through it and the lessons would be ignored.The influence of Thaksin has been a mixed one and he is certainly not to my taste but the fact remains he remains the most popular politician.Few (other than dim foreigners) doubt that if hypothetically he was able to run for office in a free and fair election, he would win - even now.It would however be useful for an intelligent and aware rewriting of Thai history for schools.There would need to be a rigorous analysis of politics and history, including the roles of all the major players, individuals and institutions.While the end result would never be to everybody's satisfaction it would be an exercise worth doing.Sadly as anyone with expeience in the field knows text books are already riddled with lies.As for Thaksin he will be remembered when other minnows have been forgotten - not an admirable one, a complex mix of personal greed and sympathy for the Thai majority (fully accept this is not disinterested - but then few politicians are entirely disinterested).My educated guess he will be remembered by future historians as a deeply flawed but great figure, whose relevance was as much for his catalytic influence as implemented policies.Intelligent people will want to know why the Establishment( and their Sino Thai middle class camp followers) hated him so much.The answer says as much about themselves, their motives and agenda as it does about Thaksin.

Or we can ignore reality and chatter away stupidly about a "hideous excuse for a human being."

Stop all the nonsense here please.

Thailand sure doesn't have kiddy porn, serious. If you ever see that you should go to the police and report them, they sure will be arrested.

Also the general was on tv for a long time tonight and apologised deeply because he was understood wrong. He only tried to warn all western girls to not wear the small bikini's in Thailand, that's all.

This general has caught the chief of the police red-handed while he was selling a big quantity of drugs.It takes balls to do that and this man was so brave to do it. He is fighting corruption and make thailand a better place for all.

Don't try and defend the indefensible.The man is out of his depth.

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

More gross stupidity

1. Clearly ignorant of the CPT's history before and after 1976, or you would not have made the asinine "at it again" comment.Most are aware of the deranged communist support for Thaksin rumours, but equally most would have dismissed the nonsense.Even your hero Suthep never made this accusation, too ridiculous even for him.

2.Missed the point completely on the 1976 comparison.Nobody is seriously comparing the tragedy of the Thammasat victims with the fate of redshirts or other 2010 groups.Many however have rightly pointed out the similarities between the forces behind the bloodshed in both instances.

It was a military coup, had nothing to do with Thaksin.

It was a political coup led by the military. And that is why the anti-corruption campaign is focusing upon activities that funded Thaksin's political machine.

But of course the shootings at Thammasat are not the first gunshots to be expunged from Thai history.

not even by only the Military it would seem.

Anyway, under the circumstances I doubt a commemoration could be held without some hotheads drawing parallels to 2014. Understandably to cancel the event seems a better choice than to just let it be and risk escalation.

Says more about your comprehension of democratic values than anything else.Shameful.