jayboy

I don't normally have time for Chalerm's insulting behaviour but in the case of Suwat I'll make an exception.

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I would be ashamed to come up with a foolish statement like this.For an honest and intelligent analysis Chis Baker has done a first class summary.Google it.

On the broader front the New York Times has an interesting article including reference to a damning indictment of the Suthep mob by Virabongsa Ramangkura, and an interesting take on the army/coup option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/asia/petition-to-nullify-thai-election-is-rejected-in-setback-for-opposition.html?ref=world&_r=0

Well I would be ashamed to submit many things you have submitted.

As always in your posts you go for belittling the writer rather than constructive discussion.

I provided a credible authority for an election analysis and an interesting link.You provided a pointless personal comment.I have no objection to being taken to task if done with intelligence and wit, qualities manifestly absent from your post .

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You call it an 'credible authority' and that's your prerogative.

I call it an article which is strongly and obviously lacking in balance and totally omits factual / critical points.

All educated and intelligent people regard Chris Baker as a credible authority on Thai politics, and one notably free of partisan bias (though he is a trenchant critic of Thaksin).

Your ignorant comment categorises you in a way I suspect you do not fully comprehend.

Sorry Pipkins, Suthep got far more votes than Yingluck.

He told people not to vote and 53%of the electorate didn't.

That's about 23 million people!

I would be ashamed to come up with a foolish statement like this.For an honest and intelligent analysis Chis Baker has done a first class summary.Google it.

On the broader front the New York Times has an interesting article including reference to a damning indictment of the Suthep mob by Virabongsa Ramangkura, and an interesting take on the army/coup option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/asia/petition-to-nullify-thai-election-is-rejected-in-setback-for-opposition.html?ref=world&_r=0

Well I would be ashamed to submit many things you have submitted.

As always in your posts you go for belittling the writer rather than constructive discussion.

I provided a credible authority for an election analysis and an interesting link.You provided a pointless personal comment.I have no objection to being taken to task if done with intelligence and wit, qualities manifestly absent from your post .

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I very much suspect that the troops who were involved in the temple shootings from the sky train tracks were very carefully selected and briefed. I doubt that they were conscripts. Those shootings were sending a clear and emphatic signal to the redshirts, it was carefully planned and executed. It worked. The message still stands today.

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I must have missed the news in which the courts announced it proven that it was the troops responsible for the temple shooting.

But then again, I don't watch much Truth Today TV so that might explain why I missed it and you didn't.

I don't think anyone seriously now suggests the army was not responsible for shootings at the temple.Do you?

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Sorry Pipkins, Suthep got far more votes than Yingluck.

He told people not to vote and 53%of the electorate didn't.

That's about 23 million people!

I would be ashamed to come up with a foolish statement like this.For an honest and intelligent analysis Chis Baker has done a first class summary.Google it.

On the broader front the New York Times has an interesting article including reference to a damning indictment of the Suthep mob by Virabongsa Ramangkura, and an interesting take on the army/coup option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/asia/petition-to-nullify-thai-election-is-rejected-in-setback-for-opposition.html?ref=world&_r=0

The New York Times is a mouthpiece for the Globalists of the Carlyle Group and Bilderburg Group for which Dr. Thaksin is their front man. New York banks seek control of the World, Thailand included. For my part, I would prefer Thai elites to exploit Thais rather than Global elites exploit Thais. Poor people the World over will always be exploited. This battle is to decide if Thais control Thailand's government and economy or Globalists do. The New York Times is good for wiping you ass if you have nothing else.

Yes that"s the Cartalucci line - not only crazy as a fruitcake but a conspiracy theorist gone ape.If you prefer to spout his demented output that's an entirely a matter for you but don't expect to be treated seriously.

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Sorry my sense of humour passed you by Jayboy.

It did! We don't usually agree but I'm aware you have a good brain - so I was too quickly out of the trap.

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Sorry Pipkins, Suthep got far more votes than Yingluck.

He told people not to vote and 53%of the electorate didn't.

That's about 23 million people!

I would be ashamed to come up with a foolish statement like this.For an honest and intelligent analysis Chis Baker has done a first class summary.Google it.

On the broader front the New York Times has an interesting article including reference to a damning indictment of the Suthep mob by Virabongsa Ramangkura, and an interesting take on the army/coup option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/asia/petition-to-nullify-thai-election-is-rejected-in-setback-for-opposition.html?ref=world&_r=0

Dem have never won any election in the past 20 years. Why can't the Dem accept that?

This from Time magazine should help towards explaining and understanding it. Throughout the world and in Thailand itself the DP and AV are considered beyond the margins.

Thailand’s Democrat Party Is Hilariously Misnamed

Don't believe Yellow Shirt talk of a "people's revolution" — what's being demanded is nothing short of a putsch

The Democrat Party last won a majority in 1992. Its power base is the Bangkok bourgeoisie, described as “timid, selfish, uncultured, consumerist and without any decent vision of the future of the country” by Cornell University Professor Benedict Anderson.

As such, the party finds no support among the rural poor of the nation’s northeast — which is Red Shirt territory — and flounders at the ballot box. But instead of developing manifestos and platforms that could compete for rural votes, the party alienates the heartland electorate further by petulantly calling upon powerful allies — such as the military or judiciary — to undermine its rival.

These are thuggish politics. The Democrat Party might cling onto its name, but seeing many of its supporters swap yellow for black shirts seems strangely apt.

Read more: Thailand’s Democrat Party Is Hilariously Misnamed | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/11/28/thailands-democrat-party-is-hilariously-misnamed/#ixzz2sfvZXv4R

I expect that in the coming hours, there will be half a dozen posts saying TIME Magazine is on Thaksin's payroll.

The reality is that Abhisit and Suthep have utterly lost the international case.There is no support of any kind at any serious level,and the international media reports reflect this.This is why the Suthep led movement have to rely on joke media figures like Michael Yon and Tony Cartalucci, and a few dinosaurs like Cunningham, Race etc.Similarly the international community while retaing diplomatic restraint is clearly of the same view.

This is not the same thing as suggesting the battle is won in Thailand - far from it.But as far as the rest of the world is concerned Abhisit and Suthep have lost the argument.It doesn't matter what the usual pack of reactionary "expatriates" have to say.

The Wall Street Journal eviscerates the Democrats and the partisan Constitutional Court, and has some words about judicial coups.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303442704579360272255058790.html?dsk=y

I wonder what the Wall Street Journal thinks of corruption, graft, illegal votes, politicians plotting, and trying their very hardest, to achieve the plundering of the treasury and the return of $1 billion which was legally confiscated by the courts, to a convicted criminal. Show me an article where they support that. Come to think of it, don't bother, who gives a s--t what they think.

Quite so.How can foreigners (except right wing former sex tourists and Michael Yon) expect to understand the essence of Thainess?

The Wall Street Journal eviscerates the Democrats and the partisan Constitutional Court, and has some words about judicial coups.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303442704579360272255058790.html?dsk=y

I was also among the millions who voted "No" to all election candidates

Coupled with the estimated 12 million people who didn't cast their ballots and there's evidently not much support for whoever does win the election.

Don't kid yourself. Without the Democrat boycott and Suthep's intimidation there would have been a much more intense effort to poll . And all the evidence suggests this would gave been to the government's advantage.

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Yet another group joined the reform bandwagon yesterday, a trail first blazed by the great reformist, Lung Suthep.

The Reform Now Network, an alliance of 74 organisations from business, academia, banks and civic groups want talks to begin at once on decentralisation, politics and anti corruption measures.

It maybe the Year of the Horse for the Chinese but for Thailand it's the Year of Reform.

Excellent.My only comment is that the Reform Now Network should expand its membership beyond hard line Anti Thaksinites,feudalists and old school bankers and capitalists.With a membership representing decent and honest people on all sides there is hope.

Incidentally I know personally some of the RNN members.They are traditionalists but still first class with a major contribution to make.

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Since this will be decided in the Constitutional Court, it will go the way of PDRC, since the Constitutional Court judges are key backers of that political entity.

This doesn't really demonstrate that clear an understanding of the status quo.

The PDRC isn't a political group - it's a reform group.

Are you suggesting that the CC is funding it?

Not funding it but aligned to it, and both sharing the same agenda.Hardly controversial.

Most well informed opinion across the political divide assume the electioon will be nullified by the partisan courts.

But there will be consequences:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579352593345489758?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303519404579352593345489758.html

The courts should judge according to the law. All political parties should adhere to the law,

PTP cannot keep ignoring the law, rules and procedures and then bleat that all decisions against them are politically motivated. The criminal investigations against many PTP members are because they may have broken the law. PTP really should do things legally, however much that is against their nature. Then they would not have these problems.

But the courts,packed with partisan officers, do not always judge according to the law.So your argument is nullified.

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Since this will be decided in the Constitutional Court, it will go the way of PDRC, since the Constitutional Court judges are key backers of that political entity.

This doesn't really demonstrate that clear an understanding of the status quo.

The PDRC isn't a political group - it's a reform group.

Are you suggesting that the CC is funding it?

Not funding it but aligned to it, and both sharing the same agenda.Hardly controversial.

Most well informed opinion across the political divide assume the electioon will be nullified by the partisan courts.

But there will be consequences:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579352593345489758?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303519404579352593345489758.html

Oops.Here's Andrew Walker's piece,

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/all-stories/ballots-over-bullets#.Uur5e_aI_0d

And if you read the interview with Korn he admits last election the dems spent more trying to buy the vote but the red electorate voted PTP anyway...so buying voted dosnt work if they dont want to vote for you they wont anyway....

Did he say "buying" the vote, or was it spending on campaigning?

Ther Democrats easily spent more money on the last election campaign than any other party including the PTP.Furthermore under the new definition of vote buying (the old one having been discredited) the Democrats were in it up to their necks having espoused expensive populist policies modelled on those pioneered by Thaksin.Personally I don't really understand the outrage since politicians in democracies all over the world develop policies to win votes.

In terms of the coming election I suspect it will take place and the result subsequently nullified by the courts packed with partisa judges.This is the game plan but perhaps not so smart since the world is now wise to the elite's manoeuvres.

Andrew Walker has an interesting piece though as a naive foreigner of course he cannot possibly understand "Thainess" having only studied Thai politics for over 20 years and speaking the language fluently.

In the Muslim provinces of the Lower South the situation may be different:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-300114.html

So there we have it: The Nation has its finger on the pulse of the nation. The paper can now say, without fear of equivocation that ALL the wine bar goers on Sukhumvit and Silom roads now support the reform of the 'Thaksin Regime' and the restoration of power to the 'widely respected members of (cafe) society. I wonder if the editor got out of his leather backed armchair and sought the views of the industrial workers in Samut Prakhan or Samut Sakhorn or the tour guides in Chiang Mai or the farmers in the Isaan. The editor must think we're all stupid. These 'widely respected members of society' we take it as read, want rid of 'Thaksinism'

This new group have, allegedly for the first time, reluctantly come forward to propose reform. If they didn't do so before they are merely bowing to the aggressive actions of Mr. Suthep's mob. If they have said this before (and given the admitted history of many members of teh group), then this is merely The Nations propaganda masquerading as news.

There will be an election on Sunday and the majority of Thais will vote -unless they are violently prevented from doing so. Then teh by elections will take place then parliament will convene and then and only then and in parliament will reform debates take place.

Reform cannot be left to the politicians, it need input from all sectors.

Only when the proposals are finalised should it go to Parliament.

Yes obviously reform needs genuine and wide national consultation.But so far the the discussion is vague and as Frysian boppe has pointed out the suggested ground to be covered is mostly just "motherhood and apple pie". As far as the mechanics of electoral democracy are concerned I have not seen specific proposals for reform but retain an open mind.It is hard however to avoid the conclusion that if the Democrats had proved capable of winning the last or any recent election the concerns on this front would have remained less intense.A cynical observer might even conclude that the Democrats would do anything to modify an electoral system so as to enable their access to power, rather than take the more challenging route of reforming their incompetent organisation and leadership so as to having a realistic chance of receiving a national mandate.In any event let's see how it goes and with a better spirit of cooperation all parties may be able to sign off a mutually acceptable electoral system.

In terms of popular endorsement of the reform package is there any better method than a national referendum? Alternatively if a parliament is elected on the basis of agreed reforms (though as earlier noted I'm unsure what the Democrats/PRDC specifically have in mind) then presumably the politicians can and should be trusted.But for some in Thailand elected politicians will never be accepted because they represent the nation as a whole.For these people there will always be a deviation as a compass needle deviates towards magnetic North - to councils of "good people", partisan judges, military interference etc - anything which protects the interests of the entrenched elite and their urban middle class hangers on.

William Hague the British Foreign secretary is a career politician who has never had a real job like most of the political class including the British prime minister Cameron and "leaders" of the opposition, Milliband and Clegg whom all support the Anti-democratic (note not "un" democratic) European Union.

So this man is in no position to lecture Thailand when he and his ilk have robbed the U.K of its own democracy by signing away British sovereignty to a foreign power without asking the British people first!

I don't disagree with your general point but you have not chosen the best example in William Hague.He had a successful career at Mckinsey before entering politics.What is more he is a talented historian having published very well received lives of Pitt the Younger and William Wilberforce.What a pity he was propelled prematurely to the Tory party leadership.He is a highly intelligent likeable politician devoid of side.And in excessively class conscious Britain he is a proud Yorkshireman whose manner and accent don't put the rest of the nation's back up.

Who are the forces providing protection, moral support and financing for Suthep's crusade? Who were the forces providing similar backing to the 1976 murderers including Krating Daeng? They wouldn't be the same by any chance? And if the backers were essentially the same wouldn't that be ironic?

Without looking into it in detail I would doubt, the backers of the Navaphon and Krating Daeng of those days are the same that back up Suthep these days.

Hmm.You might want to look into it in detail then.The background to support for the Krating Daeng etc is all recorded in respect of 1976 in various historical accounts.As to the Suthep led protests it's simply a matter of keeping abreast of which powerful influences are providing support now.I think you will find there's a common denominator.

I don't know, if that murder was done by Cambodian or Thai killers, but Sutheps intelligence network might be superior to my simple knowledge.

But what I know is, that the Thai police can't be trusted one millimetre, even if there are some good people in between. They are rated the second most corrupt group, second only to the customs department. They are known to lie, to tamper with evidence, to extortion and even to killing. So if need be, I would not entrust them with my safety.

As for Khun Suthin's killer, I suspect(ed) that were Red Shirts from Samut Prakarn, who were wipped into a frenzy by agitators, who told them to make an example of the protesters. Reminds me very much of Navaphon and Krating Daeng youngsters from upcountry, who were brought in for the 1976 killing of the Thammasat students...

Who are the forces providing protection, moral support and financing for Suthep's crusade? Who were the forces providing similar backing to the 1976 murderers including Krating Daeng? They wouldn't be the same by any chance? And if the backers were essentially the same wouldn't that be ironic?

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