jayboy

He needs to avoid the international press as it will be a pr disaster. They will know exactly how to phrase the questions.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I understand he will face a hostile reception though one suspects the number of protesters will be modest.The problem is they will be given protection by Italian law.He should aim to avoid the press altogether if possible.

My helpful suggestion is that he should before departure seek the advice of Khun Yingluck who knows how to win friends and influence people, and is widely acknowledged to have improved Thailand's overseas reputation after the disastrous Abhisit/Kasit fiasco.

Although the Junta overthrew Khum Yingluck's democratically elected government she wouldn't beat a grudge if the interests of the country were involved.Obviously he is lacking in polish and sophistication but I think Khun Yingluck could educate him in the basics so that he does not embarrass himself and the country.

I hope he will avail himself of my thoughtful advice which is given caringly.

Understand he will face a hostile reception - from who do you understand this?

Yingluck tried to make friends with President Obama for sure. Not sure she was able to influence him. Or anyone else for that matter. Can you give examples of her great successes?

Widely acknowledged - by you and who else. She was an embarrassment, thank you three times.

She wasn't the PM when the caretaker government was ousted. She had already been removed for an illegal act. Hard to call it her government anyway when her convicted criminal fugitive brother picked the cabinet and regularly met them to give his instructions.

Yingluck demonstrated her intellect, diplomatic skills and sophistication for all to see. Her remark that she didn't like all that foreign food and took instant Thai noodles was a master stroke of diplomacy. Must have gone down better than those noodles. I doubt she has the ability to educate anybody about anything.

I'm sure, should he read TV, he will treat your comments with the appropriate degree of interest.

As to the hostile reception this has been widely publicised.Since you seem to be a little slow on the uptake I am referring to expatriate Thais, not ASEM delegates.The latter's response will be a polite indifference from some and pointed comments from others.

The subject of this thread is Prayuth's attendance of the ASEM meeting in Milan, not Yingluck,However it is not really up for debate whether Thailand's image overseas improved during her government after the disastrous influence of little Kasit.Nobody is sugesting she is a Palmerston or Metternich.Prayuth (taking the UK as an example) has as much chance of a friendly reception from Queen Elizabeth or David Cameron as I have being decapitated by a frisbee.

It must have seemed all your dreams were coming true when the Junta seized power.Other initial enthusiasts more perceptive than you clearly have buyers remorse now.Just wait a few months:it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Now he is pretending that he doesn't understand diplomacy or maybe he really doesn't. Did he expect the British ambassador to say exactly what was in his mind and rant and rave about corrupt police and military working hand and glove with Mafia to scapegoat innocent people?

Diplomats and Thais have one thing in common: they never speak directly. But if you know how to read between the lines in their own language you know exactly what they are saying. The statement of the British foreign minister was clear to anyone who understands how diplomats communicate. The Thai PM responded in a Thai manner, not a diplomatic manner . . . and for anyone who has spent much time in Thailand, it is equally clear what his response was intended to communicate. And it was no gaffe, he knew exactly what he was saying, the Thai way.

And what was he saying? Please advise because many of my Thai friends are puzzled and embarrassed so clarification would be welcome.

Incidentally my experience of those who waffle on about the "Thai way" invariably came down in the last shower.

I believe the PMs statement was meant to be an insult and a total brush off, in response to a diplomatically direct challenge (most likely based on knowledge from an internal British investigation) and perceived insult and loss of face. I believe most Thai people do understand what he was really saying, just as they would understand if this same type of exchange had taken place between two Thai politicians, between two neighbors or business persons having a disagreement, etc. They are embarrassed because they realize how it will be perceived, both inside Thailand by people that do understand what he is really saying, and by foreigners that do not. And they are embarrassed and worried because they understand the diplomatic, practical (i.e. tourism/economy related), perceptive, and other impacts this may have on the country, as well as the implications it has for real reform within the country. He knew full well what he was saying, but may not have known, or on balance with other concerns doesn't care, what the implications would be.

By the way my discussion of the "Thai way" was not intended to pass judgment one way or the other. It was simply a statement of reality as to how most Thai people communicate in circumstances involving conflict (I admit it's a generalization that doesn't apply to everyone or every situation, but from my long experience it applies to most). Again based on a lot of experience, the "Thai way" of being indirect is a double-edged sword: sometimes it makes a situation worse, sometimes better . . . just as being too direct in a farang matter can be a double-edged sword as well.

I don't understand what you mean by "came down in the last shower". If you mean I just recently arrived and do not have long-term experience in Thailand, then you are very wrong.

Thanks for this intelligent response.It all rings very true.Perhaps also it illustrates the PM is not really a very sophisticated global operator given his context is almost entirely that of the Thai world and a largely military one to boot.One could argue that this lack of worldliness also applied to other leaders such as Chuan but he had a gentler temperament which softened the impact.Above all he and other home grown leaders had a filter which seems absent in the current PM.

Apologies for the dig at the "Thai way" comment.Usually when foreigners invoke it I reach for my revolver.But your clear explanation is excellent.

Now he is pretending that he doesn't understand diplomacy or maybe he really doesn't. Did he expect the British ambassador to say exactly what was in his mind and rant and rave about corrupt police and military working hand and glove with Mafia to scapegoat innocent people?

Diplomats and Thais have one thing in common: they never speak directly. But if you know how to read between the lines in their own language you know exactly what they are saying. The statement of the British foreign minister was clear to anyone who understands how diplomats communicate. The Thai PM responded in a Thai manner, not a diplomatic manner . . . and for anyone who has spent much time in Thailand, it is equally clear what his response was intended to communicate. And it was no gaffe, he knew exactly what he was saying, the Thai way.

And what was he saying? Please advise because many of my Thai friends are puzzled and embarrassed so clarification would be welcome.

Incidentally my experience of those who waffle on about the "Thai way" invariably came down in the last shower.

The stirring of concern and uncertainty about the roadmap.

I think the Nation piece touches on an excellent point regarding the tension in the Thai elite between those who favour bureaucratic polity (reliance on public servants rather than politicians, the Yes Minister approach if you like) and those who prefer a more open democratic system, nothing new in this which has persisted for decades.Personally I think the Thai tradition of excellence in the upper civil service (particularly in the agencies and ministries with financial responsibility) has served Thailand well - preserving an independence in fiscal and monetary policy.But equally it's not perfect as we saw in the late 1990's, and I also believe bureaucratic polity requires elected oversight.

As to the reform programme now and choosing words carefully it's really necessary to have a long perspective.All coups mean well and promise reform.All are initially popular.Day by day however the task of unelected governments tends to become more difficult as popular enthusiam fades.The military mindset isn't good at herding cats and that's an entirely appropriate metaphor for Thailand.

He is going to have to learn to keep his mouth shut on things like this.

He has done a lot of good so far and has the potential to do more but getting involved in things like this only makes him lose credibility.

He has made mistakes before and this is another which does him no good at all.

I respect your opinion but i totally disagree.

What are the great achiements so far, other than cleaning a couple of beaches in Phuket?

Nothing when compared to the elimination of the democratic rule and basic Human rights, not to mention the substitution of a corrupted system with an equally corrupted one.

But with the difference that the bums can't be voted out.

He needs to avoid the international press as it will be a pr disaster. They will know exactly how to phrase the questions.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I understand he will face a hostile reception though one suspects the number of protesters will be modest.The problem is they will be given protection by Italian law.He should aim to avoid the press altogether if possible.

My helpful suggestion is that he should before departure seek the advice of Khun Yingluck who knows how to win friends and influence people, and is widely acknowledged to have improved Thailand's overseas reputation after the disastrous Abhisit/Kasit fiasco.

I don't think Prayuth meets in private in hotel rooms for personal gain.

No need when one magically can transform a modest military salary into huge wealth.

He needs to avoid the international press as it will be a pr disaster. They will know exactly how to phrase the questions.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I understand he will face a hostile reception though one suspects the number of protesters will be modest.The problem is they will be given protection by Italian law.He should aim to avoid the press altogether if possible.

My helpful suggestion is that he should before departure seek the advice of Khun Yingluck who knows how to win friends and influence people, and is widely acknowledged to have improved Thailand's overseas reputation after the disastrous Abhisit/Kasit fiasco.

Although the Junta overthrew Khum Yingluck's democratically elected government she wouldn't beat a grudge if the interests of the country were involved.Obviously he is lacking in polish and sophistication but I think Khun Yingluck could educate him in the basics so that he does not embarrass himself and the country.

I hope he will avail himself of my thoughtful advice which is given caringly.

Of course she did - you only have to see world medias comments on Farmers committing suicide to know that the Shinawatra PR machine is working well.

Er, perhaps you might want to distinguish between PDRC propaganda and reality.Put it another way - who was welcomed by the whole civilised world and who is desparately attempting some form of recognition overseas - anybody, anywhere.

He needs to avoid the international press as it will be a pr disaster. They will know exactly how to phrase the questions.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I understand he will face a hostile reception though one suspects the number of protesters will be modest.The problem is they will be given protection by Italian law.He should aim to avoid the press altogether if possible.

My helpful suggestion is that he should before departure seek the advice of Khun Yingluck who knows how to win friends and influence people, and is widely acknowledged to have improved Thailand's overseas reputation after the disastrous Abhisit/Kasit fiasco.

Although the Junta overthrew Khum Yingluck's democratically elected government she wouldn't beat a grudge if the interests of the country were involved.Obviously he is lacking in polish and sophistication but I think Khun Yingluck could educate him in the basics so that he does not embarrass himself and the country.

I hope he will avail himself of my thoughtful advice which is given caringly.

The former PM made a tribute to a brave young girl.It

had no ulterior purpose than an expression of admiration.The moronic element on this forum want to politicise it.If you wish to be associated with these louts that's your choice,

Oh, stop being so pompous and rude.

Calling everyone whose view you don't like a moron and louts.

How do you know what Yingluck's or her PR teams intention was? Did she give you a call for a chat and some advice. You think it had no ulterior motive, that's your opinion not a fact in the slightest.

Do you really believe Yingluck and other prominent members of her family really write all their own social media posts?

If you want to be another Shin apologist lickspitle, that's your choice.

The thread is about Yingluck's tribute to a well deserved Nobel Laureate, perfectly appropriate and non-controversial

You and your kind have attempted to hijack the thread for your own ranting purposes.In the circumstances and given the subject matter, I think that disgraceful.Others might use a more colourful epithet.

But frankly what you and I think is neither here nor there.The purpose of the thread is to acknowledge Malala's courage, not your weird extremist politics.I suggest you take time to reflect on this and change your attitude.

What a pathetic bunch of misogynists. Jesus wept.

Ignore them.They are just a collection of (from the evidence of their posts) rather poorly educated middle aged losers consumed with bitterness - not worth paying attention to.

Khun Yingluck was simply paying tribute to Malala which is perfectly reasonable and appropriate for Thailand's first woman prime minister.Let's leave it at that.

Oh come on jayboy.

You always seem to feel a need to denigrate other posters. Even your 'evidence' is just your interpretation. Do you have to compensate for own deficiencies, lack of moral courage?

Now as for whether or not Ms. Yingluck's remarks were reasonable and appropriate, it does seem to be as sincere as the 'real' smile of a politician. Of course since she didn't even bat an eye when her Minister of Tourism made his 'famous' remark on the consequences of accepting a dinner date, my faith in her 'struggle for women's equality' has diminished somewhat.

The former PM made a tribute to a brave young girl.It

had no ulterior purpose than an expression of admiration.The moronic element on this forum want to politicise it.If you wish to be associated with these louts that's your choice,

My friend went to Khet Prakhanong to enquire for me what documents are needed for the pink ID card. He was told the same nonsense that it is only for Myanmar, Cambodia and Lao citizens.

So I went there by myself, armed with a print out of the relevant pages of the government manual issued to the Khets how the procedure is for PR holders of any nationality. . I got the docs from this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590057-thai-non-thai-id-card-for-permanent-residents Khet Prakhanong is now very familiar with the procedures. They have conferred with CW many times. However, the program is buggy, which is the only reason they cannot issue it.

I encourage every PR holder to visit that thread and apply for a pink ID with their Khet / Amphur, so that CW puts some pressure on the software vendor to fix the program.

That having been clarified, I don't care much about the colour of the card, but yes, another colour could make sense. Not that I am usually thought to be Cambodian, thought.

The labour law is a different can of worms. The PR (and the card) should initially allow for work which is allowed for foreigners, albeit without the requirement to apply for a work permit.

I am surprised you repeat the canard that it is "the same nonsense" which prompts officials to say the pink ID card is meant only for migrant workers from neighbouring countries.This is no more than the truth and really holders of PR agitating about this are almost certainly wasting their time, though I appreciate for some this is not a particularly valuable commodity.

For all I know a few foreigners with PR may be issued with ID cards (I recall without checking that some members have achieved this).But the obstacle to widespread use is not software bugs but the inconvenient fact that the issue to all PRs is not what was intended.

If PRs were issued with cards along the lines suggested by Arkady that would obviously be excellent.Fingers crossed but as so often in Thailand it's worth understanding the intention of a measure not just the sometimes confusing surface content.

In your first paragraph you say that I said that the pink ID is only for migrant workers from neighbouring countries. I said the exact opposite, namely that PR holders of any nationality can apply for the pink ID.

In your second paragraph you are plainly wrong. Please read the thread about the pink ID I linked in the post you copied, and please don't forget to download and read the manual for the officers that explains the process how to issue the pink ID for PR holders of any nationality. And the reason is the software bug, I have seen it by myself, and it has been confirmed by CW.

Please post only if you know something, not if you want to repeat rumours you may have heard somewhere.

I spoke to my lawyer some time ago about this.I am not going to name him or his firm ( because I want to spare him endless messages from old geezers with too much time on their hands) but he deals with immigration matters for many of the leading multinationals here, and has done for many years.

He confirms my statement that these cards are not intended for PRs.

I dare say those with plenty of time on their hands will buzz endlessly on about this chimera.What is needed is a clear decision to offer all PRs an ID card.If this can be achieved under the existing mechanism so be it but it's more likely to be a new initiative - if it ever happens.

My friend went to Khet Prakhanong to enquire for me what documents are needed for the pink ID card. He was told the same nonsense that it is only for Myanmar, Cambodia and Lao citizens.

So I went there by myself, armed with a print out of the relevant pages of the government manual issued to the Khets how the procedure is for PR holders of any nationality. . I got the docs from this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590057-thai-non-thai-id-card-for-permanent-residents Khet Prakhanong is now very familiar with the procedures. They have conferred with CW many times. However, the program is buggy, which is the only reason they cannot issue it.

I encourage every PR holder to visit that thread and apply for a pink ID with their Khet / Amphur, so that CW puts some pressure on the software vendor to fix the program.

That having been clarified, I don't care much about the colour of the card, but yes, another colour could make sense. Not that I am usually thought to be Cambodian, thought.

The labour law is a different can of worms. The PR (and the card) should initially allow for work which is allowed for foreigners, albeit without the requirement to apply for a work permit.

I am surprised you repeat the canard that it is "the same nonsense" which prompts officials to say the pink ID card is meant only for migrant workers from neighbouring countries.This is no more than the truth and really holders of PR agitating about this are almost certainly wasting their time, though I appreciate for some this is not a particularly valuable commodity.

For all I know a few foreigners with PR may be issued with ID cards (I recall without checking that some members have achieved this).But the obstacle to widespread use is not software bugs but the inconvenient fact that the issue to all PRs is not what was intended.

If PRs were issued with cards along the lines suggested by Arkady that would obviously be excellent.Fingers crossed but as so often in Thailand it's worth understanding the intention of a measure not just the sometimes confusing surface content.

You mean expanding in the 'right' direction, one you want to expand to, but not the direction other may want to expand to. Even to the point of really annoyingly reminding us of how much you dislike the dropped or dead blanket amnesty bill.

We know that never has the vast majority of people in government been asked to declare assets. Now having a undemocratic government seems to some the 'right' moment to do so. Even tax declarations have always been off limit here.

Furthermore the fact that you cannot explain only means you are incapable of explaining. no one is forced to explain their wealth because you feel a need to know.

Your credulity defies belief.You are so keen to avoid criticising the current Junta that your position is beyond distorted.It's ludicrous.

The main point about the declaration of assets is that one of this administration's raison d'etres is to stamp out corruption.

Therefore the sight of co-opted generals and cronies anxious not to decare their huge wealth after a lifetime of low civil service type salaries inspires disgust and loathing.

It's not that this lot are worse than their predecessors.It's the hypocrisy that marks them out.

It does make me laugh when farang students of the Thai language pompously try to educate the members here. If you can read and write Thai and speak colloquial Thai as spoken by the person in the street then you can consider yourself fluent. Most farangs I've met who see themselves as fluent can't hold a seamless conversation with the local motorcycle taxi rank inhabitants or have a decent conversation with their muu baan security guard or the phone seller in Pantip because neither party can understand each other. My wife wanted a native English speaker fluent in Thai for a position in her company. All those with Thai education qualifications who I interviewed struggled to read and write Thai at an acceptable speed, and when invoved in a 3 way conversation with myself and my wife's P.A struggled to keep up unless formal Thai was used. The only fluent candidate and also got the job was a Canadian who had been working for some years with his girlfriend on her food stall. He hadn't spent a single hour in the classroom and yet spoke like and had the accent of a Bangkokian. Neither Ms Kenney (who speaks decent formal Thai) and especially not Mark 'Clark' Kent are fluent in the true sense of the description.

Your avatar "BirdsandBooze" says it all.The stress you place on speaking Thai like a Bangkok working class person suggests you may not have had much contact with the elevated Thai world that diplomats often have to move in.More formal, structured and polite Thai is required than might be picked up for example by some expat drifter working with his girl friend on a food stall.In any case those foreigners with good formal Thai can easily make themselves understood on the street.Those with colloquial but unstructured Thai cannot however operate with upper class or well educated Thais - their source of language would be revealed in an instant.And as for Mark Kent you are just plain wrong:he is fluent by any reasonable standard though he would (and does not) profess to be perfect.

Kudos to her for learning Thai, an example to all the long term ex-pats who still can't bother to learn the local language.

c'mon son that was pretty basic thai

Actually it was very good Thai - no doubt practised in advance - but still very impressive after so relatively short time in the Kingdom.

The British Ambassador Mark Kent is also excellent but he had the advantage of intensive language training for a year before taking up his post.

"He also warned political elements not to stir up troubles while martial law is still in force, saying that all he has wanted is for the public give him moral support and understand him as he has no intention whatsoever to seek personal gains but to solve the countrys problems."

Does this mean he will have his solder brother investigated and try to find out where he got THB 80 mill. from?

Many high ranking military are offered and take up highly paid directorships on the boards of large companies, an employment that they juggle alongside their regular duty. The present PM himself at one time enjoyed this dual role. As in most countries, it's not what you know it's who you know.

Actually no.Most senior officers on Boards are retired.The practice is also far less than a few decades ago.Also fees for non execs are not huge even in the major listed companies - more that Bt 1 mill pa would be unusual.

No there's no escaping the reality that in many cases the source of poorly paid military officers huge wealth is good old fashioned corruption.Reassuring to know they are the ones in charge of draining the swamp.

You state this as if you have the undeniable proof, rather than just your own assumption.

Now of course it may be possible that for some corruption was the source of income, but for some it might be family wealth. Just like up to about 1848 or so when only English Gentlemen could buy their commission of Officer in H.M.'s armed forces.

My first paragraph is the simple truth based on long experience of Thai corporate life.

The second para does not deny that some officers will be be able to justify their fortunes as a result of independent wealth.But most won't - and you show every appearance of being in denial on this matter.

The British army comments are irrelevant and also mainly wrong.Commissions were certainly purchased but maonly this was s practice in the more fashionable regiments, cavalry and guards etc.

"He also warned political elements not to stir up troubles while martial law is still in force, saying that all he has wanted is for the public give him moral support and understand him as he has no intention whatsoever to seek personal gains but to solve the countrys problems."

Does this mean he will have his solder brother investigated and try to find out where he got THB 80 mill. from?

Many high ranking military are offered and take up highly paid directorships on the boards of large companies, an employment that they juggle alongside their regular duty. The present PM himself at one time enjoyed this dual role. As in most countries, it's not what you know it's who you know.

Actually no.Most senior officers on Boards are retired.The practice is also far less than a few decades ago.Also fees for non execs are not huge even in the major listed companies - more that Bt 1 mill pa would be unusual.

No there's no escaping the reality that in many cases the source of poorly paid military officers huge wealth is good old fashioned corruption.Reassuring to know they are the ones in charge of draining the swamp.

Thaksin came into power with the backdrop of the aftermath of the '97 financial meltdown and a USD3 B IMF loan. The reason why the economy was booming was due to his boldness in implementing economic policies that saw Thailand reduced its foreign debt by 2/3 and paid off the IMF loan in '03.

And I have to add that the '97 melt down was a result of the Dem government bank liberalism policies.

If the economy during Yingluck was crap, the major credit rating agencies would have downgraded the BBB+ but no they didn't.

Yes. And Thaksin's miraculous policies not only boosted the economies of the region, but of the whole world.

ha ha ha ... do you know who was in the deputy PM when the crash happened in 1997?

OK. The economy wasn't crap while Yingluck was in power. Not sure why her policies failed though. Maybe they were crap policies.

From your 3 statements there, it's clear you have absolutely no idea about Thailand economics over the last 20 years.

Frankly having just seen the exchange between yourself and Eric Loh it is embarrassingly obvious who is clueless about recent Thai economic history.

I don't have a huge objection to a partially or at a stretch to a fully appointed Senate.Devil is in the detail of course.However the absolutely key point is that such an assembly can only check or delay decisions/legislation of the lower fully elected (one person one vote) house.Ultimately the elected house must prevail.This is an absolute sine qua non.However the Senate is not to be taken lightly and the government of the day must woprk with both houses.

With the sentiment expressed above, I hope that you will join me in disparaging the party list system. ALL MPs should be elected by an electorate, after facing their intense scrutiny and possibility of rejection (Oh NO! What a loss of face.)

The party list allows the wealthy to "buy" popular politicians and use their votes to appoint themselves, family, unelectable scum like Chalerm, and criminals facing prosecution to the highest offices of the land.

I could certainly live without the party list system though I'm not sure it is quite the devil's cauldron you suggest.

Incidentally your and my idea of unelectable scum may not be the same as that of at least some voters.Rascals get elected everywhere and I'm fairly sure Chalerm could get himself elected - and I don't mean by bribes or intimidation.

"In the 2007 election, the Democrats actually beat PPP in the Party List vote."

No, they didn't. PPP won the North by 500,000 in 2007, much closer than 2011 when the difference was over a million votes: http://asiancorrespondent.com/66503/analysis-of-the-2011-thai-election-part-3-comparison-with-the-2007-election/

But there's not much point speculating about the next election because no one even knows what the electoral system will look like after the "reforms" are finished. Somehow can't see them leaving it how it is for Thaksin's party to win again... not after all this effort to get PT out.

There are speculation that the electoral system reform will looks like Hong Kong with both houses filled with appointees i.e. the good guys. There also likely to be lots of horse trading with mid size and small political parties to form a coalition and re-emergence of old political heavy weights. Anything and everything to diminish the electability of Thaksin' s party.

Yes, functional constituencies with a fully appointed senate is one idea I've seen discussed. But I can't see such radically anti-democratic reforms being implemented without resistance... I guess we'll know in a year or so. A lot could change before then of course.

I don't have a huge objection to a partially or at a stretch to a fully appointed Senate.Devil is in the detail of course.However the absolutely key point is that such an assembly can only check or delay decisions/legislation of the lower fully elected (one person one vote) house.Ultimately the elected house must prevail.This is an absolute sine qua non.However the Senate is not to be taken lightly and the government of the day must woprk with both houses.