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jayboy
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Posts posted by jayboy
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Many confused and unintelligent responses to my earlier post.Nobody is suggesting that this government is not without its faults and I do not have any obligation to defend it.If it is as incompetent, corrupt and incompetent as claimed it can be voted out by the Thai people at the general election in a few weeks time.
But of course giving the Thai people a voice is exactly what the old guard fear.Thus the strategy is to create conditions of confusion and enlist the partisan efforts of the EC,CC and NACC to destabilise and destroy the elected government.The dullards who bleat conspiracy theory should keep quiet until it is evident the slow and silent judicial coup has no legs.Until that point all the evidence points the other way.
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But but but.... They were elected. But the Dems. But it's politically motivated.
Maybe it's political that these charges were not probed long ago.
It's part of the plan.The Democrats can't win elections so the choice for the old guard is either a military coup or judicial intervention.Suthep is doing the old guard's groundwork so that the country is as chaotic as possible.It's now understood a coup would be counterproductive so the chosen method of trashing an elected government is directed judicial activism.The courts have been packed with partisan yellow judges.
http://www.dw.de/military-undecided-in-thailand-conflict/a-17361237
I generally appreciate your posts Jayboy, but in this case, you do not feel that the likely loss of 400 billion baht ++ and total lack of accountability or failure to heed any of the many warnings and warning signs should just be brushed under the carpet?
I agree it may seem to be picking on her, but let's bear in mind that this is a whole lot different than the trumped up DSI set up against Suthep/Abhisit where Tarit et al get off scott free, this is unquestionably corruption, the only issue is who is to blame.
Let's not forget how Thaksin intimidated the judges in his false asset declaration, or how his wife tried to pay them off with 'donut box gate', or how his wife falsified documents and presented them in court, or how many various politicians have lied about degrees, hidden their relatives for a murder charge, run off overseas to avoid punishment - there is a total lack of respect for the judiciary from some politicians, all I can suggest is if a politician doesn't want to be sued/sent to jail....don't break the law.
I agree it should be properly investigated.My point was about the timing.
I agree Thaksin's behaviour was disgraceful and that he played fast and loose with the courts.What is different now is that it appears the courts are chiming in with a particular political objective.I'm not suggesting there is some dastardly blueprint - it's not needed.
For what it's worth I also appreciate your posts and, sparing your blushes, your genuine knowledge and intelligence.
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But but but.... They were elected. But the Dems. But it's politically motivated.
Maybe it's political that these charges were not probed long ago.
It's part of the plan.The Democrats can't win elections so the choice for the old guard is either a military coup or judicial intervention.Suthep is doing the old guard's groundwork so that the country is as chaotic as possible.It's now understood a coup would be counterproductive so the chosen method of trashing an elected government is directed judicial activism.The courts have been packed with partisan yellow judges.
http://www.dw.de/military-undecided-in-thailand-conflict/a-17361237
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Even the poor farmers you claim to be helping and who supposedly love you are now calling for your head. Yingluck, PTP, Shinawatras, it's time to go.
Yes.The farmers are on the march.They were deceived by Thaksin.But now they know the truth and are bent on vengeance.So much for the support Thaksin and this government claim to have in the North.Soon we will see the farmers join up with the heroes on the Bangkok streets for the final countdown.How do I know this? I had it straight from the lips of that great reporter, Michael Yon.
Someone just posted that at least his family in Ubon and an uncle in Buriram got paid just now. Of course the farmers marching are from Lower North and Central districts.
That is divide and rule talk.The farmers are on their way to join the resistance. They were fooled once but no more
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My family from Ubon just called and said they have received their rice payment this afternoon and their uncle in Buriram had also received it this morning. If you have family members in the North or Northeast, check with them and have them go ask at the office, most probably the payments are now ready to be claimed. Good news indeed.
and those from Lower North and Central regions still waiting and therefore protesting
Yes, and the news from the rest is double talk.No payments have been made and the farmers are on the march.They have seen through Thaksin and his government.Soon they will join up with the heroes on the Bangkok streets.The final countdown is soon to begin.
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Even the poor farmers you claim to be helping and who supposedly love you are now calling for your head. Yingluck, PTP, Shinawatras, it's time to go.
Yes.The farmers are on the march.They were deceived by Thaksin.But now they know the truth and are bent on vengeance.So much for the support Thaksin and this government claim to have in the North.Soon we will see the farmers join up with the heroes on the Bangkok streets for the final countdown.How do I know this? I had it straight from the lips of that great reporter, Michael Yon.
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"We do, I would note, applaud the restraint shown thus far by government authorities in this regard," she said.
Re; US support for PTP.
<wiki> "Thaksin also served on the Asia Advisory Board of the Washington, D.C. based Carlyle Group until he resigned upon becoming Prime Minister in 2001."
Other members of CG include US Presidents, UK Prime Ministers, CIA bosses. Thaksin was 'our man in Asia' and so there is always the undercurrent of US support for him and PTP (imho), despite the fact that he is a wanted fugitive and his party is more crooked than a whole lorryload of corkscrews. Many people have speculated that him being able to travel freely despite having a legit criminal conviction (and more serious cases including ordering mass-murder still pending) is because of his connections to these type of organisations.
Please note, I love USA people and culture, and also I am not criticising the person or institution in in the OP. Just saying. Some things are like VD, they never really go away.
Re; the actual sentiments of the OP, obviously they echo basic common-sense and are what everyone else is saying too. Restraint and dialogue is the basic foundation of anything, not just State matters. The sad part is that we are even discussing these basic machine factors at all, when the whole engine should have been chugging along nicely years ago.
Whenever one reads of some bizarre theory involving Thaksin - "our man in Asia",the Carlyle Group and the US bias to the PTP one recognises the influence of demented conspiracy theorists.The most prominent of these in Thailand is one Tony Cartalcci (not his real name) who is crazier than a box of frogs.He is an enthusiastic propagandist for the North Korean and Syrian dictatorships.
As to the State Department comments it does not require much intelligence to see the US is not expressing any preference, simply giving credit that so far the violence has beeen very limited.No need to read anything more into it.
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There is a horrible stench in this room, seem whenever an Amsterdam topic comes up the 50 shades of red fornicate over each other to defend his honour. Like seagulls fighting over that last juicy chip.
How difficult is it to grasp a simple point? I don't see anyone engaged in defending Amsterdam:I certainly have no interest in doing so.
The thread subject matter deals only with his comments on the Thai army and to date these have not been refuted.
Since the observations are undeniably true, the only alternative is to spew random abuse.But I am afraid you and others of your persuasion have lost the argument.
........................................."Since the observations are undeniably true"............................................
?????????????????????????????
Thanks jayboy, when I read your amazing comment I sprayed coffee all over my laptop screen, again !
Proves my point once again.Unable to refute the charges.
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There is a horrible stench in this room, seem whenever an Amsterdam topic comes up the 50 shades of red fornicate over each other to defend his honour. Like seagulls fighting over that last juicy chip.
How difficult is it to grasp a simple point? I don't see anyone engaged in defending Amsterdam:I certainly have no interest in doing so.
The thread subject matter deals only with his comments on the Thai army and to date these have not been refuted.
Since the observations are undeniably true, the only alternative is to spew random abuse.But I am afraid you and others of your persuasion have lost the argument.
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"Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”
Well Mr Robert Amsterdam.
You should do a little research on your client (Mr Shinawatra). and you will find he has committed some rather appalling atrocities against his own people, as well as buying votes in order to seize power.
As for an "opportunistic chimera".... You are surely one yourself if ever there was one.... You just like the money and the high profile client.... You are a lawyer and would probably work with the Devil himself if the money was there..... Admit it to yourself and shut TFU.
This is typical of the response to Robert Amsterdam's comments on the Thai army, though probably this one is less literate and more crass than most.The approach is to pile on the personal abuse, attempt to change the subject but above all not to respond to the points made.
The reason of course is that Amsterdam's comments are spot on and undeniable.
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Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.
Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.
How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.
Please highlight what part of Amsterdams article was factually incorrect so we can all discuss
difficult, just like highlighting what is factual correct. Clever lawyers are like that. Some can even make you wonder whether you really saw what you saw.
In other words you cannot identify any inaccuracies in Amsterdam's remarks on the Thai army.
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Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.
Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.
How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.
The problem with that is that you would only permit information/news/argument supporting YOUR perspective to be available. It's healthy to be able to hear all sides....even that which might be considered by some to be extreme
And the problem with your argument is that Amsterday is the paid mouthpiece of a convicted fugitive from justice and therefor anything but unbiased.
Forget Amsterdam's personal circumstances for a moment.Can you or indeed anybody demonstrate that his comments on the Thai army are other than accurate? Thought not.
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Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.
Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.
How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.
Please highlight what part of Amsterdams article was factually incorrect so we can all discuss
He can't because every point raised by Robert Amsterdam is true.It doesn't matter whether he is "on the payroll" or not.
It's presumably too difficult for some people to debate rationally given their comments do not suggest much intelligence or knowledge (though to be fair it's not really intellectually possible to defend the lies, brutality, corruption and political meddling of the Thai army)
But the reality is that Robert Amsterdam is absolutely correct and the army's response is mere bombast.
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"I have no knowledge of any previous such cases but on the evidence I have seen the circumstances are very indicative of the absurd entitlement Indian middle class expect.By this I mean it is beyond imagination that a similar lower level diplomat from say Japan,France,Russia,China, the UK or Canada would feel the neeed (or be able to afford) taking a personal servant on an international posting.My reaction is why doesn't this woman do her own cleaning, ironing, cooking like everybody else?"
Do you have any knowledge of India?
Domestic service is a massive source of employment there. Live in or visiting maids, housekeepers, cooks, gardeners, drivers etc. It's like Europe was 100 years ago,
Working, professional educated classes - from lower middle upwards, expect servants. One has to demonstrate one's position in a society that is still heavily caste and class based. Any lady like this would expect to not have to do household chores. Not just India - look throughout the Middle East and South East Asia and the use of maids and servants is very high. And in lots of cases, they don't get paid very much and not always treated very well.
I have long experience of India, and your remarks (all agreed) simply confirm my earlier comments. Whatever she was used to in India is however beside the point since she was working in New York.There is no reason why she should not have adapted to the norm there, as have millions of Americans with Indian heritage. There is nothing specifically cultural which requires someone else to do one's household chores. The class and caste system of India is in no way admirable.
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Yeah, that's an important detail.I don't know all the details of this case
She wasn't a diplomat at the time of arrest, she was a consulate employee. Therefore no diplomatic immunity at the time of arrest.
India gave her diplomatic status after the arrest hoping to retroactively shield her from prosecution.
Doesn't change my opinion that this wasn't worth it.
Prosecutors aren't legally obligated to pursue convictions on all cases, you know?
Probably didn't predict the blowback on this. Maybe they SHOULD have?
Well, employing people like this is illegal and is one step away from people trafficking. Why it only caught the Indians so far I don't know. Maybe she was the biggest offender.
I have no knowledge of any previous such cases but on the evidence I have seen the circumstances are very indicative of the absurd entitlement Indian middle class expect.By this I mean it is beyond imagination that a similar lower level diplomat from say Japan,France,Russia,China, the UK or Canada would feel the neeed (or be able to afford) taking a personal servant on an international posting.My reaction is why doesn't this woman do her own cleaning, ironing, cooking like everybody else?
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Nice pic above of YL.....
But.....Suthep has offered her an Olive branch many times.....all she has to do is resign...along with the rest in the Shinawatra clan in politics.....it's not hard....
Yes indeed.For some reason she persists in thinking that the confidence of the Thai people as expressed in the last election gives her some kind of mandate.
Still there is some evidence the strain is also getting to Suthep.
"The confidence of the Thai people" ?
come on, jayboy, you can do better than this
I'm not straining for rhetorical heights here nor looking to score debating points,simply stating a fact.As potential Prime Minister her party won an easy victory at the last general election.The old guard, Abhisit, Suthep etc know that the Thai people would still show enough confidence in her to give her another election victory should a contest be held now.That is why they are resorting to their current tactics, hoping (Plan A) to provoke violence thus enabing a military intervention or - more likely - (Plan
judicial intervention in a drawn out slow motion death by a thousand cuts.The joke is that even if their plans result in this government falling, they still will not be able to squeeze the toothpaste back in the tube.When I speak of the THai people I do of course mean all the THai people not just the "good very educate" people.Perhaps that distinction is what confused you.
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Nice pic above of YL.....
But.....Suthep has offered her an Olive branch many times.....all she has to do is resign...along with the rest in the Shinawatra clan in politics.....it's not hard....
Yes indeed.For some reason she persists in thinking that the confidence of the Thai people as expressed in the last election gives her some kind of mandate.
Still there is some evidence the strain is also getting to Suthep.
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Articles like this show how incompetent, sided and poor is Thai journalism.
If I was the author of this article and had faced US prosecutors in respect a grimy record in paying for political favours, I might hesitate before accusing other people.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/192/1037/594125/
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*Deleted posts edited out*
I see that on twitter Korn has expressed extreme frustration that the court has strayed into commenting on matters which are of no concern to it, effectively accepting this a a kangaroo politicised court.Korn is in favour of the proposal but disagrees with the financing method.
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It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.
The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.
This is unbelievable bizarro world stuff.No doubt it makes sense to Arkady and other extremists but in the rational world at large (and for that matter for most Thais) the NACC decision is seen as absurd and irrelevant.
As the New York Times points out, the parliamentarians are being punished for doing their jobs.Why on earth cannot the the junta imposed constitition not be amended? Why should not a more democratic Senate be contemplated? Plenty to argue about but corruption on the part of those who voted for democracy? Madness.
Macbeth's witches had it right
"Fair is foul and foul is fair"
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More evidence of the steady overhaul of the Democrat Party under Abhisit.
Too bad that Thaksin has never had the same good intentions.
Possibly he wasn't under quite the same pressure as Abhisit since despite military coups, directed judicial intervention and a military rigged constitution, the Thai people continued to have faith in parties very closely associated with Thaksin.Successive general elections speak for themselves.
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Why stop with Yingluk there are plenty of wealthy people in Thailand and you can take their assets also to fill your vault. It is becoming very clear what your real aim is. Lets not forget your dislike for farangs also, you can take their assets also, condos bank accounts etc.
The aim is to get rid of the Shin Regime of which she is a part. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS INTO SOMETHING IT IS NOT. Your constant hyperbole is extremely annoying and misleading. FACTS please.
It is in fact annoying and misleading hyperbole to refer to the "Shin Regime".It is not a regime.It is the democratically elected government of Thailand.
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Naive. Hmmm. Do you think the government is behaving like this because they deeply care for the safety and well being of the Thai people? That they really respect the right of protest, democracy and will listen to the people and implement reforms that will benefit the country as a whole?
Or might it just be the usual often confusing machinations associated with their manipulative grand strategist?
Trying to dress up the international approvals as support for PTP is wearing a bit thin now. Not one single government has come out and actually supported the Yingluck government or PTP.
Yes.Obviously the government has concern for the safety and well being of the Thai people.No government (of any political persuasion) wants to harm or damage its own people and only those with a a cartoon "Mr Evil" outlook would believe otherwise.But as the recent protests have shown the current government is much more responsible than its predecessor about public safety.
The current government obviously respects the right to demonstrate and in terms of respecting democracy generally is way in advance of the "Democrats" and Suthep.
In terms of the implementation of reforms you have veered off issue.What reforms are you referring to? Suthep's proposals are often vague and sometimes unacceptable.
As to foreign governments you evidently have some difficulty in grasping the point.None of them support one side or the other.However many have commented Thailand should respect democracy and follow the rule of law.And many have praised Khun Yingluck for her approach to civil disturbances in the current crisis.
My ass ! There are 3 reasons for the relative peacefulness :
1) The anti government protestors are mostly peaceful.
2) The army refused to act. PT begged and begged and they said no.
They know that they can't start killing people without very good reason. Despite the government's lies and trying every tactic they can to make for violent confrontations ( ie saying terrible things about the protestors over the loud speakers at government house in efforts to make them angry and violent ), they still haven't managed to create the excuse they need. No people burning tyres and buildings and shooting at people, for the most part. I still want proof the bullet in the policeman was from a protestor, prove it !
3) Yingluck doesn't want to be brought up on murder charges.
However it is too late for that.
Black shirts, 'third hand', lies.threats and intimidation. The violence in Ramkamhang was caused by the reds. Still no word who was shooting at the university from the tollway. Protest leaders homes attacked no doubt by reds. The country can never have peace till the red menace is removed...
Very sad indeed.
You are letting your prejudice overwhelm any critical faculties you might have (though frankly there is precious little evidence of the latter).
1.Yes I agree the anti government protests have been mostly peaceful.That is to the protestors credit.But there are unpleasant thuggish elements on that side and there have been incidents of violence including more than one murder.
2.The army has so far acted responsibly though one suspects its ultimate allegiance is to reactionary elements.Still lessons have been learnt from 2010.Your suggestion the government has begged them "to act" is a lie.
3.It is not the government looking for an excuse as all but apparently a few well understand.Suthep and the powers behind the need the army to intervene (and for that to happen there will need to be a major undisciplined and violent action from the government side).Suthep knows he has lost unless this happens.So your contention the government is looking for an excuse is not only nonsense but completely illogical.
4.Of course Yingluck does not want to be accused of murder.Whatever one's views it must be recognised she more plausibly than most on the other side dreads the thought of blood being spilt.Her government's tolerant attitude reflects this and explains why she has garnered so much international credit.
5.Your account of the Ramkhamhaeng violence is inaccurate.Do your research before making statements such as "violence was caused by the reds".
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Agreed absurd... as is claiming that vote buying makes no difference.
Doesn't guarantee it but it does help. If it didn't, politicians wouldn't waste their money on it, would they.paying people doesn't guarantee they will vote for you. The dems paid my wife's family last time and they voted for Yingluk. Took the money and thought suckers.People will still vote for whoever they want
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both sides do it and it's wrong and we all know that but the "they only win because of vote buying" is absurd
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If you regard two of the foremost political analysts (and incidentally strong critics of Thaksin) as absurd, so be it.Intelligent analysis and cool appraisal of evidence is not for everyone.
There are many who share your your view - eg the silly Sino Thai grannies in my moobaan.They and their kind will never change.
judicial intervention in a drawn out slow motion death by a thousand cuts.The joke is that even if their plans result in this government falling, they still will not be able to squeeze the toothpaste back in the tube.
Probe into PM Yingluck will be comprehensive
in Thailand News Headlines
Posted
My point was that if the government falls through the impact of judicial intervention, my critics should not dismiss my comments as a 'conspiracy theory".Corruption is a curse in Thailand and nobody would disagree it should be tackled, but it is not, despite protestations, the root cause of the current conflict.Look at the nature of leadership of the street protests!The current government is certainly losing popularity so why don't the forces opposed to it work for a victory in the coming general election?