daboyz1

Can someone tell me how much the 55 pages of discussion here have contributed to an actual solution?

None of course. What a silly question. The solution now is in the hands of the brave Thai soldiers fighting the red shirt insurgency.

Wow these reporters. Why don't they just put on a red shirt and pick up a gun. They don't mention that Abhisit gave them what they wanted. Elections a year early, yet these dunces continue to ruin peoples lives. They only thing they understand is bullets and Thaksin's propaganda.

I agree with you that the situation is really very close to a Civil war and it is urgent to find a solution through negotiations.

Jerry,

You seem like a nice guy, but the problem here is that the only person who has the power to negotiate for the red shirts is Thaksin. And negotiations with him have been going on for 4 years. There is nothing left to say.

Thaksin has chosen civil war over compromise. Long ago, he could have simply said he was sorry, served a short sentence, received a pardon along with some concessions, and we'd all be living in a world filled with butterflies and rainbows.

But that is a fantasy, and doesn't help today. I applaud your tenacity at sticking to this idea of peaceful negotiations, but after 4 years, I think you are an idealistic dreamer, at least while Thaksin still lives. It is now time to accept reality and see this is a war for control of the country. Only 1 side can win, and that winner will be decided at the end of a gun as it has throughout all of history. This isn't a special case. Most countries go through this several times during their existence.

Keep your heads down and let's just hope we all get out of this in one piece. I hope for a quick, decisive route of the insurgent forces. The time for talking is long since passed. The reds want violence. Until I see a change in this attitude, by actions rather than words (i.e. defecting and going home), there is no other way forward, so let's just get it over with. I truly wish the situation was different.

I want my kids to grow up in a peaceful society too.

Well said.

Unarmed protesters! HELLO

Of the 500 Israeli-made Tavor Tar-21 assault rifles seized by the protesters, only 200 were returned to the Army. Some M16s, had returned. The protesters also have M67 grenades, M79 grenade launchers and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. They also seized many assault rifles from the military during the clashes with security forces on April 10 at Khok Wua intersection, the sources said.

Laugh. Peaceful protest. Yeah right. I hope those photos bring some of the red apologists here to their senses, but I doubt it.

Try to be less partisan. There has been some "collateral incidents" and the intervention of third parties' militias, but grossly the protesters have been peaceful until now.

Army has shown some restraints also but is now shooting live ammo.

Tomorrow, the situation may evolve in more violent confrontations if the stolen weaponry is used, which has not been the case until now (except maybe by militias).

I doubt they stole those weapons to show their friends and families back home. On a positive note, most of them probably don't know how to use them. I hardly call people shooting rockets, starting fires, etc. etc. peaceful.

Unarmed protesters! HELLO

Of the 500 Israeli-made Tavor Tar-21 assault rifles seized by the protesters, only 200 were returned to the Army. Some M16s, had returned. The protesters also have M67 grenades, M79 grenade launchers and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. They also seized many assault rifles from the military during the clashes with security forces on April 10 at Khok Wua intersection, the sources said.

Laugh. Peaceful protest. Yeah right. I hope those photos bring some of the red apologists here to their senses, but I doubt it.

What do you guys think would be the next appropriate step Govt could take if this violence carries on for furhter 2-3 days ?

Guys with "kill them all" approach pls don't reply...

There is surely only one person who can stop this now.

Yep. Agreed.

This fiasco finally put the international community on the line, some have come out openly support Thaksin (Monte Negro, Dubai, Cambodia, etc) while some are walking the fence. UN leader Ban called for more talk, but is he really 'in the know', does he have all the facts? We sure don't.

Is it possible that the majority of the world actually back Thaksin? Or are they just responding to the media's question with standard 'let's have a talk' response. the government have tried to negotiate, with the last "road map" being the most promising, and acceptable. The Reds then drag their feet before responding with their some what outrageous demand which guaranteed total break down.

Having an election in November isn't too long to wait, unless you're not confident that you would win.

What's wrong with having a set of rules that every one agrees to? Why are the UDD leaders so adamant in having a fast election? Scared to lose?

I'm sure that all of us ,Thai, were confident that the mess would have finished when the two side talked a couple of months ago. But both were not being flexible.

Now the words on the street is that the Shinawatra family have left the country, Gen Chavalit and co have also left. What does that mean for the Red protestors? Their supposed 'leading figures' have apparently left them out to dry, how can they still follow these people. Thaksin might not be the leader of the UDD, but he's definitely the heart and soul of the group, with his phone in and all.

A question I want to ask the international community is, how can you let a wanted fugitive enter your country? Mr. Thaksin has been found guilty and yet he's entering and leaving various countries like a freeman. He's not even using fake IDs, people. If this is because they view him as the legitimate leader of Thailand then just come out and say it, don't ignore it.

Because the world has NO RESPECT for thailand and its blatant singling out of Thaksin for a minor corruption case when every single one of the thai MP could have been prosecuted for similar cases of corruption in one way or another but Thaksin was singled out because he was a threat to the yellows gaining control again so how can they win, stage a coup and prosecute him

Its just like the reds that have been jailed within 24 hours when the yellows form 2 years ago are still free awaiting trial

Its blatant one rule for one and another for the yellows

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh today.

No I doubt he will.

Waco was a conflagration because nonone realized they had

stocked so much incendiariess that their whole place would go up.

Again this is a case of a brainwashed group with a do or die never surrender attitude

refusing to acknowledge rule of law. Koresh is not so far a stretch compared to

several of the Red Leaders, removing the apocolyptic religeious aspects.

Indoctrination is a dangerous tool of control than often can spin out of control.

We see that in Redland today.

That's a good analogy. I think a crazy man leading people to their death for their own gain applies here. Jonestown also comes to mind. Don't drink the red colored kool-aid. If you do, dont expect help from the hospital you have closed.

The murder you are watching is that of Thailand and you are a total fool to think 'elections' will solve it.

So you think the junta should have power until Thaksin dies of old age? - or until the red homelands are smart enough to vote for the correct party?

Elections are the best way yet... every 4 years 'they' get a chance to be booted out of power.

But 'operation save face' must continue. the 'seige' has lasted a whole 2 days now. Enough patience... get shootin'.. yeeehaaww! Waco style!

Thaksin won't die of old age..........

You are truly a fortune teller. I hope it is sooner than later.

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

Get ahold of Thaksin. He can give you training. Ask the 2500 up north. He's an expert.

I am not a specialist so: OK thanks for the information, it is not Coca it is Kratom....

I apologize but the result is the same.

i expect the guards are all on the strong stuff, yaba could keep em up for days, they cant rotate like army troops and with the food shortage could do with not feeling hungry.

you know methamphetamine was invented by german scientists working for the the allies and was standard issue for troops in WW2, the side with the best drug won !

Also LSD. The famous bike ride!

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

Look! Nobody forced them to do this. I doubt anyone wants any one killed. They brought it on themselves. You seem British. Were you fine with the IRA dropping bombs in London trash cans? What a Hypocrite. You sir are an a$$. People here have relatives, businesses etc. that are affected by this mess. I live under a "dodgy" govt. but I dont throw petrol bombs, I vote. These terrorists had a shot to vote in November... a year early. They didn't take it. They want violence, and their daddy back from Dubai. Anyone that thinks different is really off the mark.

Thai army snipers in action

Sweet. They deserve it! Thanks for that, I will sleep well tonight knowing that someone that can shoot is loyal to the govt.

How do I send him more bullets?

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

And what is this supposed to show?? some criminals hiding behind barricades that is all

What is shows is the governments claims that "we only shoot in self defence" are totally bogus lies.. As does the CNN footage..

Which then makes his "only trust the official sources, we must maintain the moral high ground" type statements also laughable..

Its currently open season on anything that moves, protesters, journos, medics, etc.. Lets forget this 'only in self defence' PR BS..

What it shows is that they need to go home. It's a message. If you want to try to take over the capitol, be prepared to be shot. It's a good message. What shocks me about all this is the people that paid them to come to BKK to BE SHOT. Here's 500 THB, go take a bullet for MY cause. I really can't understand why people can't see this for what it is.

This IS about Thaksin!

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

And what is this supposed to show?? some criminals hiding behind barricades that is all - how does that make Abhisit a dictator ??

Boy your are really scratching the bottom of the barrel to try and keep up red propaganda

The reds are at the bottom of the barrel. They are losing on every front. They have lost the PR war (they were winning it until the hospital invasion), their leadership is fractured, they have announced they will start looting soon. Their only recourse now is to try and paint Abhisit as the bad guy. What is the Red plan for peace anyway? The army pulls back and lets them continue to destroy Bangkok?

I think you're right. They blew their chance. They don't want peace.

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

I'm sure they are closed now, but when this mess is over you need to go here:

http://www.auathailand.org/sit/

Kwanchai: Says soldiers should be wearing skirts. Ridicules claim of self-defence.

Troops have war weapons.

We are the ones using self-defense.

You've closed us off, people try to go out and you shoot them

what is wrong with these reds?

first they say they will stay there until they die

now they want to get out

please make your mind up!

there are some very efficient soldiers they wear colourful skirts, no kidding !

do reds what to fight with them ?

Kwanchai has a short memory. On Friday evening, after Seh Daeng was shot, Rambo started wearing a wig back stage to throw snipers off. Maybe these leaders are now in full drag, who knows.

I think one basic fact is being lost here: WHO STARTED ALL THIS? surely the government did not ask the reds to come into Bangkok and create anarchy

If they now want out, they should make the first move and give up - but obviously this is not part of Thaksins plan - anyone remaining in the red zone by their own free will has to be a target - they were given ample opportunity to leave

They've been offered free buses etc. I think they are holding out for the bigger paycheck from Mr. T. Probably will never come.

I hope Thaksin gives an interview with the same guy that Seh Daeng had. That worked out well.

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

where is he in the picture then?

i must have missed him brandishing an M16......

Where is who? Sea Daeng? or the people that started this mess and were given a good offer for elections in november? They wanted this, now they have it!

Isn't it time to plant rice? Who's going to deal with that when the farmers are tearing up Bangkok? I'm not trying to put them down, but it is their livelihood. Will Mr. T compensate them? I doubt it.

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

The reality is the Red Shirts have the backing of the rural population.

Probably 80% of Thai's support the revolution.

That's a fact!

Then why did they only get 36% of the vote last time around? Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

That's about 14% less than a majority, and about 44% less than you're claiming. I'm sure out of the 36% Mr. T bought half of those.

Please do some research before you speak.

Notice how the muppet emphasizes "this is a fact"

Can't teach stupid. These red's are like the Hitler youth. I would laugh, but people are dying for one man's fortune.

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

The reality is the Red Shirts have the backing of the rural population.

Probably 80% of Thai's support the revolution.

That's a fact!

Then why did they only get 36% of the vote last time around? Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

That's about 14% less than a majority, and about 44% less than you're claiming. I'm sure out of the 36% Mr. T bought half of those.

Please do some research before you speak.

Do you notice Wayne Hay is wearing a bullet proof vest and a helment.

The journalist shot yesterday was wearing jeans and a black shirt, and was running between the reds and army shooting each other. Idiot.

It is now part of the job of the security forces to shot at journalists who are not wearing "a bullet proof vest and a helment[sic]"?

The Apologists of this violent crackdown becoming more and more pathetic.

Would you say to him face to face that he is an idiot or are just anotheranonymous hiding behind his keyboard seeding hate?

Are you and red parrot married?

Yep, I have to say I've been disappointed in CNN and BBC - the last one just started giving some bleeding heart spiel about how hard it is for protesters to lie on the floor for two months - please!

I guess part of the trouble is

i. they don't speak Thai and the majority have been flown in here from somewhere else, having read up from their own sources what is to be reported on.

ii. they are playing to int'l audience, who always love the 'poor protesters' versus 'authoritarian gov't' pitch.

Al Jazeera have had the best reports that i've seen, but haven't seen one from them today.

Sorry but what kind of comments is this (ii)? The audience of BBC and CNN is the average conservative anti-demonstration western citizen. BBC and CNN have never talked about "authoritarian government" in Thailand. Get a grip! Stop to see everything under red/yellow filters!

I'm sorry for you, but you're wrong. CNN is considered by all in the US to be very left. What little BBC I have watched seemed to me to be in the same vein. Nobody here in the US is anti-demonstration; everyone here is against violent demonstrations. Especially when they promote anarchy e.g. looting. Remember what the govt. did against the Branch Davidians. It was because they had war weapons. Women and children are not enough to shield violent anti-govt. radicals from justice. If you want to live in a peaceful society, you must follow some rules. After the 2000 presidential election, when the Supreme Court of the US gave the election to George Bush, the Democrats did not try to bring down the government. Now the Democrats are back in power and nobody had to die to achieve that. Most people, who some on this forum claim to be anti-red, are only against the Red's methods of advancing their cause.

Exactly.

Some of the above comments are right on and worth thinking about, but I am no longer so sure about the international media.

Yep, I have to say I've been disappointed in CNN and BBC - the last one just started giving some bleeding heart spiel about how hard it is for protesters to lie on the floor for two months - please!

I guess part of the trouble is

i. they don't speak Thai and the majority have been flown in here from somewhere else, having read up from their own sources what is to be reported on.

ii. they are playing to int'l audience, who always love the 'poor protesters' versus 'authoritarian gov't' pitch.

Al Jazeera have had the best reports that i've seen, but haven't seen one from them today.

Agreed. I'm surprised Dan Rivers doesn't wear a red shirt when he reports from BKK.

We have to feel sorrow for our country's soldiers who have been ordered by our government to kill their friends and neighbors and fellow Thais.

Our country? Our government?

Are you Thai? Seem to have this distinct memory of you recently reminding others that they were mere guests here? No?

Regarding the rest of your comments, the Thai government has not ordered Thai people killed, it has ordered soldiers to use whatever means it has to, to protect the King and his nation of peaceful citizens from a small group of violent insurgents that are being employed by a convicted criminal who remains h3ll bent on revenge, power and money.

I'd say that pretty much sums it up for anyone that is wondering what this is all about.