1 hour ago, farcanell said:

 

So... Are you suggesting it's something like deliberately pushing the boundaries of legal and civil liberties, to see what they can get away with, in a bench marking type exercise, perhaps as a prelude to some further action.... Like perhaps challenging the anti burka laws ( I'm starting at the least violent scenario that springs to mind, with that suggestion)?

 

more drastic  scenarios may include deliberately inciting anti Muslim violence, to portray Muslims in Europe as victims, requiring UN protection... Spit balling with that... But I would prefer to avoid tin foil hat conspiracies 

Farcanell, no I do not think " it's something like deliberately pushing the boundaries of legal and civil liberties " -

I do think  it's challenging other people tolerance.  And again I repeat : considering the circumstances in France today.  

Is there a risk of "natural"  division of the beach among groups?

GuestHouse , I quote this last part of your post " But of course if its a Muslim woman choosing to wear a Burqini then the defenders of the free world feel they must speak on her behalf and defend her from making her own choices about her own life - just like all the rest of us demand to do.  "

I started my point by " to me" and "today in France" - . and I'm not even trying to speak on behalf of a woman wearing a burkini - I'm telling the impression I have as a person.

That's my feeling - someone else will have another one.    

Many persons, men or women, of different ages - muslim or not - from different part of the world - do not like to expose their body - for different reasons - and manage to do so without wearing a Burkini.

In fact "Burkini" was created recently - Something like 10 years ago - by a muslim woman destinated to muslim women living in muslim countries who otherwise would bath fully dressed   as an improvement in terms of confort -  At that time, I thought it was great for them. I said to myself any woman - chinese - japanese etc.. mostly from asian countries -  who does not want to tan could adopt the burkini as bathing suit.

Back to France - 10 years ago, you would hardly find someone bathing in burkini. - Now you'll still find very few,  but in today's context everyone will notice them and  if only worn by muslim women , it turns out to be representative of an attitude  because you can not ignore the context.   

Someone in a previous post talked about " low profile" -  I don't see it as a submission  - it is preservation.     

To me, today in France, a woman living in France - maybe born in France -  wearing a burkini on a beach  is  in some way  saying - even claiming - " I don't care what you think - how you feel -  stop me if you can ".

It's not related to religion and has little to do with modesty.

I use googletrad to quote these further informations, below ,  from a french newspaper ( le parisien) , explaining  it finally was a "territory battle"

" Neither radicalized individuals from one side or racist villains of the other." Words, very selected, the prosecutor of Bastia (Corsica) at a press conference held yesterday on the brawl Sisco had the double merit of providing the necessary lighting and try to ease tensions still on the island. Commenting on the result of four days of investigations and five débutées custody yesterday morning, the judge described the exact scenario of the violent fight between a family of origin of Maghrebian Lupino, a suburb of Bastia, and villagers Sisco, which originated in a desire to "privatize" the beach from the first.
The first incident began earlier in the day, when swimmers, among them fully dressed and veiled women, wanted to "own" the little creek, in the words of the prosecutor. "They put a traffic prohibition sign - more or less symbolically because people could go - to let no-one go", described Nicolas Bessone. Several times, passersby and tourists approaching too close have been insulted and threatened,  some receiving stones. Until a group of young people of the village warned of the situation, arrived  on the premises.
It was at this moment that the situation escalates and the versions diverge. An altercation broke out between the two groups. One of the teenagers would have been struck by one or more of the three men of North African origin family. Warned that his son might be molested, the father of the young man goes to the site, and in turn would have suffered strokes, several witnesses suggesting the use of a harpoon and a bat used by attackers. In the process, they are dozens of angry villagers who joined to the beach. This time it is the swimmers who have experienced violence before the police arrived in numbers not soothe tensions. "

iReason,

here is a link https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/15/corsica-mayor-bans-burkini-violence-beach-protests-sisco-france

and: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/16/burkini-beach-brawl-leads-third-french-city-in-a-week-to-ban-the-swimsuit-for-muslim-women/

No problem Fracanell, my point is anyway that what you choose to wear tells about who you are.

Today even more in this case. It's the background that gives signification. Willing it or not, you deliver a message, If you put all your identity and pride in your dress code, up to you 

If you are a little bit careful, you can avoid the potentially conflictual situations and stop claiming your right to differenciate, when it's not really relevant.  

Sometimes, you better give up your préférences , it's common sense, it's courtesy, and has little to do with the fact of living in a democracy or not.

If you are from muslim culture and consider that women should not go around in their everyday life clothed like any other western woman, then I'm entiled to think that you have little consideration for women dressed "western style".

I am a woman, live in France and I feel uncomfortable anytime I pass by a woman veiled from head to toes.

If you go to the beach in France, you know you will find people half nude, if it's not correct for you ,  don't mix - it's a contradiction.

I'm afraid it's not such an easy task,  because the people you aim to keep away know how to get through the tests and how to completely mislead  and abuse interviewers, I could say it's part of their mindset.

The assailant, a young Swiss man ( aged 27)  and one of his victims, a woman (34)  died this sunday morning from their injuries, police said.

I'm afraid DT does not even need to win this election, he already has the most effective power of nuisance that will  last long after november wether he is elected or not. 

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

How's this for telling it like it is?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/opinion/trumps-ambiguous-wink-wink-to-second-amendment-people.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

 

 

Thanks for the link Jingthing, worth reading, so I quote your post as a reminder 

the problem for the public opinion is not how very few muslims carry on attacks although the large majority of them are peacefull people..etc.., the problem comes from the fact that 100% of the mass killings and horrific murders in Europe these last months were  perpetrated by people of muslim culture. Of course this has an impact on the way you keep your mind open when you're not of one them.

I do not have the feeling DT is so unpredictable... what do you get when you let an elephant Inside a china shop? How do you feel leaving a monkey carrying your basket full of eggs?

I keep wondering why DT did not check himself  his wife's speech. This was his duty to monitor his wife's preparation for the event.  

I imagined they would have together scrutiny each and every word , compared the draft to other speeches in similar circumstances.

She's not the one to blame because she's not the one running for presidency.

This shows how motivated for the job her husband really is.

They have to clean their own mess and stop saying " he was such a nice guy - " despite all evidences, these guys received help and support from their relatives and acquaintances, neighbouts etc.. - before - during and sometimes after

Even those born and raised in France, bearing french ID papers can not just wash their hands saying " not in my name" that is just not enough when you live and benefit from a country which is not the one of your roots, you still have to do more to show you deserve it..

I just wonder what kind of opinions they shared with their families since they were kids to turn out to be finally both outlaws and murderers - of course this has nothing to do with religion - this is more linked to the background - the culture - or the absence of -

I feel so angry.

2 hostages slaughtered - 1 of them - a priest - died.

Please search " ROI Fans 180616 Bordeaux Euros 2016" and have a look on the video , this is just incredible, these Irish supporters are fantastic , they've also been seen cleaning the fan zone before leaving

( sorry I do not manage to join the link)

So sorry ... total solidarity with all the victims of this mass killing

Well... I'd rather consider these so dressed women as the real victims, Would I - as a woman- be unfortunately been born in a country where women are so treated, I'd try to escape and migrate.

It can happen to almost anyone, someday, to express a xenophobic / racist opinion - it's not a "whites only" attitude. Rather often, the same who complain about racism have their own préjudices; less and less people pretend to be fair and have no préjudices. Some fight against, for others, the subject is not tabou. any more.

I can't wait until DT delivers his position concerning women guilty of aldutery.. corporal punishment ?

Thankfully, Enron, Lehman Brothers, Valeant... were / are not owned by Chinese

So they removed 2/3 of your right lung ? Do you now have a beautiful long scarf on your back?

Do not hesitate to tell the doctor how you feel, what's going on... especially if the cough does not stop - they may check if there is a false membrane or anything else

Hoping you manage to rest and sleep and do not lose your appetite.

BanK,

If you read this message, we all hope you're surrounded by caring hospital staff - do not be too impatient to get out until all exams confirm there are no risks ( such as infection etc.. ),

enjoy your meals - I'm sure they taste better in thai hospitals than anywhere else, and recover step by step.

BanK,

Having a PET scan now , will give a precise idea of the actual extension of the problem. Also if you have chemo or surgery or radiotherapy, they'll need to see where and what they have to focus, or if more investigations are needed.

After the treatment, you will have again ( nearly 1 year after) , scan and PET scan to check that everything is ok , by comparison before / after.